Impeach! Impeach? (Part 1)
It is at least possible that establishment media and others did their best to manipulate the nation into nominating Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. It is also at least possible that establishment media and others have been, and are, doing their best to manipulate the nation into demanding impeachment of President Trump. However, the rest of this essay does not depend on whether either of those things actually occurred.
At the Philadelphia Convention, Benjamin Franklin noted that, historically, the removal of "obnoxious" chief executives had been accomplished by assassination.1
Franklin suggested that the Constitution provide a method of removal other than assassination. Apparently, the Framers agreed. The first (and only) Constitutional convention fashioned a process to which we tend to refer, albeit not entirely accurately, as "impeachment." The House votes on whether or not to refer allegations against the President (or other official) to the Senate for trial. If the House votes "yes," the President (or other official) has been impeached. The Senate then tries the matter.
After the Senate trial ends, the Senate then votes on whether or not the President should be removed. If the Senate votes to remove the President, the Vice President becomes President. When the Constitutional Convention fashioned the removal process, the Vice President would have been elected by the people. Now, however, the Vice President is merely the person whom a Presidential nominee chose as a running mate.
The process for removal (or not) is governed legally by Constitutional provisions2 whose meaning has not been hammered out by centuries of judicial interpretations--and likely never will be. Implicitly, political considerations play a role, as they do with everything else. The terms of the Constitution detailed below in footnote 2 leave room for considerable Congressional kabuki around impeachment and conviction votes,3 if our elected(?) "representatives" in Congress were both so inclined and sufficiently brave. As detailed in footnote 3, below, conceivably, a vote by a minority of members of the House could suffice to impeach; and the vote of as few as thirty-four Senators could suffice to remove a President.
Recent Presidential elections have entailed considerable time and effort and billions of dollars of disclosed and "dark" money. Candidates for President now invest years in quietly preparing to run, then having a ghost writer prepare a book that vindicates the candidate, then doing a self-serving book tour, then lining up donors and then forming an exploratory committee; and, finally, admitting they are running and running openly in a primary campaign. The winners of the primary campaigns then campaign before the general election. During a lot of this period, we hoi polloi perseverate, volunteer, donate, and vote in primaries and general elections, expending a lot of time, money and physical and emotional energy. Meanwhile, everyone is diverting attention from the actual business of the nation.
The Framers of our Constitution were brilliant, but reluctant to empower anyone but plutocrats.4 Today, however, we pride ourselves upon widespread and egalitarian suffrage.5 For practical purposes, today, the popular vote of the people of a state determines how electors cast that state's electoral votes. Even rare "faithless" electors have never swung the electoral vote for President,6 However, in part because the Framers made amending the Constitution that they fashioned so difficult,7 our system still reflects the contempt of the Framers for us "rabble" (or we "rabble" would not be so desperate now for hope of change).
Do we, today, really want removal by as few as thirty-four Senators, cosy with lobbyists, changing the outcome of all the time, money and effort and all those tens of millions of primary and general election votes entailed in electing a President? Because, centuries ago, the Framers were elitist plutocrats, should so few people still have the final word on who shall wield executive power over hundreds of millions of Americans and be the Commander in Chief of the most powerful military in the world? (BTW, nothing in the Constitution prevents the Senate from putting the matter to an advisory vote by the people, but don't hold your breath.)
Imagine the potential for various kinds abuse if we take impeachment lightly! For just one thing, what kinds of running mates might Presidential nominees choose as "insurance" against their own impeachment? Would we have wanted a Dan Quayle succeeding the secretive President Roosevelt during World War II or President Kennedy during a period of unprecedented domestic upheaval, combined with the Vietnam "Era?"
Potential for even worse kinds of abuse exists, even if neither of the two Presidential nominees are complicit with the would-be abusers, but are open to "advice" as to their running mates. (All candidates for what may be the most complex job in the world should be open to advice, but one hopes the advisors will not have an agenda inimical to the majority of Americans.) If, however, the nominees are intentionally complicit with would-be abusers about removal and succession, "Katy, bar the door!"8
(The second and last part of my thoughts about impeachment is, I hope, almost ready to post.)
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1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States, citing, Chafetz, Josh, Impeachment and Assassination 95. Minnesota Law Review (2010). See also, Madison Debates http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/debates_720.asp (Great website, btw.) Despite the concern of the droll and sagacious Franklin, some of our best Presidents were assassinated, while some of the most "obnoxious" left office alive.
2 Provisions of the Constitution of the United States governing impeachment of a President are: Article I, Section 2, last paragraph; Article I, Section 3, paragraphs 6 and 7; Article I, Section 5, paragraphs 1 and 2; Article II, Section 1, paragraph 6; Article II, Section 4; and Article III, Section 2, paragraph 3. (The cornell.edu website is great for looking up the Constitution and federal statutes.)
According to the Constitution, neither House of Congress may conduct any kind of business (beside adjournment) unless a majority of its members is present or "deemed" present. Assuming no relevant Constitutional amendments, a quorum of the House is two hundred eighteen members; and, for the Senate, assuming fifty states, fifty-one Senators. Impeachment requires only a vote of the House; and removal (or not) requires only the vote of the Senate.
3 The Constitution implicitly allows the possibilities of playing with strategic absences in the House and the Senate and/or with the size of the vote required in the House; and those things leave much room for kabuki. The Constitution says nothing about the size/proportion of the House vote required to impeach. As best I can tell, this means that the House could decide that, with a quorum present, impeachment will require a vote of much fewer or much greater than 218 members. However, that decision would itself would require presence of a quorum and the vote of a majority of Representatives present.
The Constitution expressly requires the vote of two-thirds vote of the Senators present. With one hundred Senators and a quorum requirement of fifty-one, two-thirds of those present could amount to as few as thirty-four Senators.
4 http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/yates.asp (secret notes of the Constitutional convention) Among other things, the Framers wrote a Constitution that allowed only about 6% of the total population of their time to vote for federal officers. Even that 6% could vote only for members of the House, which the Framers purposefully made weaker than the Senate. By the election of 1920, every race and gender of U.S. citizens was able to vote for President. However, the poorest, those who could not afford to pay poll taxes, were still waiting for a right to vote in some states until 1964.
5 Suffrage not being synonymous with democracy http://caucus99percent.com/content/sleights-santa-and-republic
6 Back when we elected Vice Presidents separately, Alabama electors did swing a vote for Vice President. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector As a practical matter, these days, electors who plan to change the outcome of a Presidential election would be well-advised to disappear, immediately and permanently.
7 http://caucus99percent.com/content/lets-amend-constitution
8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Douglas
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Comments
polls
Good point, thanks.
The aphorism is that everyone hates Congress, but loves his or her own Rep. It's probably not 100% accurate, but there is truth in it.
Nancy's constituents are, in her capacity as Rep., residents of the district she represents and, in her capacity as minority leader, her fellow Democratic members of the House. And, a Rep is not vulnerable to impeachment. Besides, she is a member of the establishment and the establishment has no reason to want her out of her position. For example, she claimed that chained CPI is not a cut.
And, these are not the droids you're looking for.
I'd rather watch Trump continue to flail about
increasingly becoming more and more ineffective than I would have Pence in office.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I agree. The Chamber of Commerce & Business
Maybe, Trump can do something about the unofficial government that is positioning him for a fall.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
The way I see it, the alternative to Trump is letting the
Establishment manipulate us into demanding impeachment or, at a minimum, being fine with it.
First, they gave him millions in free publicity and lionized him. As soon as it looked as though he had a lock on the nomination, they pivoted and began attacking him. They've been talking impeachment since election night, if not sooner.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Sure, like the head of CBS said, Trump is great for
Trump is one of the few people elected president who was seriously outspent by his rival. Trump capitalized on the hurt most people are feeling - lies mostly on his part - but his opponent didn't even bother to campaign in a let's-meet-the-people manner.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
@duckpin You're right about
Give me 2 billion dollars in earned media and I could make socialism the most popular political ideology in the United States:
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
IMO, it went well beyond business. Reporting on Trump's
pronouncements, showing video clips of his antics, etc. would have generated about the same revenues, whether they treated him like a serious candidate and raved about him, as they did before he locked down the nom or whether they treated him like a clown, which they did after he locked down the nom--which was very early compared with Hillary. Yet, Hillary had to eliminate basically one candidate in the primary, one whom few had heard of and who was not accepting money from big donors; Trump had to eliminate about twenty, including Jeb Bush, who had billionaires backing him, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, all of whom had backing.
Yet, Trump did it without spending a cent on ads or taking a single donation (that we know of. Not to mention behaving like a petulant, eight year old lunatic. Doesn't add up, unless you look at how media lionized him early on. And maybe even then, it doesn't add up.
@HenryAWallace They promoted him
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@HenryAWallace And now they're stuck
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Merely making many Americans aware of how they are
manipulated by establishment media would be a good thing.
Many have said they would rather have Trump than Pence.
I'm not sure which is worse. However, I am sure that letting the establishment and its minions manipulate us into demanding impeachment is not good.
They promoted him--right up until he locked down the nom,
which was well before she did the same. Then, they pivoted against him.
It was very obvious in 2008 that Obama was their choice, not McCain and not Hillary or any other Democrat who ran. But, they were subtle in 2008 compared to this time.
@HenryAWallace I'm using the word
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Got it. Thanks.
The way it looks now
For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to everyone that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still.
John Maynard Keynes, 1930
@Kurt from CMH Next to Hillary, that
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
For now, at least, it appears that only
April GlaspieFlynn knew.Emphasis on "appears."
The funny thing? The folks at MSNBC claimed that Flynn's biggest contribution was that he was able to calm down Trump. I can hardly wait to see what Trump is like without Flynn to calm him.
They'll have to prove collusion
Mayun. President Ryan. Perish the thought. Almost as bad as Ted Cruz.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I second that thought
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@gulfgal98 To give the example of
His obvious insanity may be all that's saving us.
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
@sojourns Yeah, that would be
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Exactly--
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I don't think Dominionists would be anti Israel or anti-Jew.
Whatever may have been the case in the past, the evangelicals I know take to heart the following (yes, even though it is OT, not NT):
Genesis 12:3, King James Version
And, of course, Israel is the place where the Second Coming of Christ is supposed to occur.
Trump might not live to see impeachment.
He's going to war with the National Security State...
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
Either way, Pastor Pence becomes POTUS.
He's in a precarious position,
but they can't afford to actually kill him for fear of repercussions. Anyway there are other, less risky ways to obstruct, hamstring, and undermine his administration. For one thing, he'll be under constant, unrelenting attack by the media... or at least most of it. I don't see how any public figure could survive that for very long.
There's also a fifth column of neocons embedded deep within the Pentagon and the IC generally. Unless Trump can root them out or neutralize them somehow, they'll be able to create endless mischief for him. As demonstrated by the recent coerced resignation of Michael Flynn.
native
... and it will be "the libtards" that did it --
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
It always is. /sarcasm
It's a tragicomedy.
It's a tragicomedy.
Except that a lot of people are going to be hurt.
Nothing - absolutely nothing - surprises me any more.
He should fired for murder.
He's already a war criminal, murderer of innocent children and civilians. So he should be impeached for that alone, just like Obama, Bush and Clinton before him.
But as usual, no one brings that up. It doesn't even come in the conversation anywhere.
I don't care if Pence is president anymore than Trump, it is all the same for the Serfs, that's the thing we need to get through our thick Serf skulls.
What this should do is tell more people that we don't need a president, that our political system is broken beyond repair and that we'd better do something about it now.
@Big Al Fine, bring it up. Bring
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Part of why I bring it up is because I don't understand
I think we both know that if by some miracle Trump was impeached for war crime murders, that would mean the whole game would have changed and Pence would be irrelevant. It ain't gonna happen.
But it won't stop me from bringing it up because I don't want others to forget about it.
Relative to Trump getting impeached by other means, it would be just more proof our political system is FUBAR and needs to be replaced.
@Big Al That's why I
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Lives would seem to be cheaper by the dozen, as long as the pretense continues that such military attacks and invasions are all parts of a necessary 'war' against the world, where dead people, including children, magically become 'collateral damage' rather than terrorized and murdered citizens in their own countries.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
"It all depends upon your definition of" terrorist, as Bill
Clinton once said in an entirely different context.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
The first attack on the World Trade Center occurred in February 1993, shortly after Bill Clinton first became President. After 911, Bill Clinton claimed that, when Bush the Lesser was elected, he (Clinton) warned Bush that Osama Ben Laden was the biggest danger then facing the US. Yet, Bill Clinton had an opportunity to kill Ben Laden with some sort of smart weapon, but supposedly forebore because Osama was standing with two civilians who would have died as well. TWO ADULT CIVILIANS, who, for all we know, were Ben Laden's bodyguards. Meanwhile, we know that Clinton, like Bush 41, Bush 43 and Obama, was "offshoring" torture and bombing some folks, too. So, we know that Bill's sensibilities as Commander in Chief were as delicate as the story of his refusing to kill two bystanders might suggest.
In light of the kinds of other decisions Clinton made while in office, the two civilian story does not strike me as even a skosh believable. Very often, the truth is discerned in hindsight by looking at the result and working backward.
Only two other possible explanations for not killing Ben Laden then that, unlike the two civilian occur to me: Bill Clinton was not as incredibly great at "compartmentalizing" as he later claimed; or, for some reason, he did not want to kill Ben Laden then. Deciding which is true is, as Obama once said in an entirely different context, "above my pay grade."
Either way, Thanks a lot, Bubba. (The center right mocks the left for accurately blaming Clinton or Obama for anything at all, but screw the team colors approach, especially when it comes to excuses for things like war.)
@Big Al In total agreement with
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
In agreement for multiple reasons
some of which go beyond the scope of this essay.
As for Cheney, not sure we dodged that bullet. Under certain conditions, it doesn't matter who is President. That was one of them, as was Reagan's second term.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Impeachment?
Just wait until the FRightwingnuts put on the reality video show called "The Rapture." They've now got the technology and enuff dumbed-down viewers to make it a great success. That's my greatest fear. tRump is just another in a long line of POTUS bad jokes. Rec'd!!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.