Is AntiFa becoming more fascist than the fascists they organized against?
Real life has been quite hectic on the personal front lately, so I haven't been able to come and share my thoughts with you guys and gals as frequently as I was, but I felt I had to take the time to put this together as I fear it is a troubling sign for the future. It may be full of typo's and whatnot as I don't have the time or inclination to proof read it first as I gotta run out for a few hours and conquer a giant honey-do list before I fly up to the big cold north for my Grandmothers 100th Birthday next week. (Some good news at least, apparently I come from a long lived family at least on my mothers side, lol!)
Ok, enough personal blather, the story commences below...
More and more reports keep coming out about "left wing" protesters attacking people attending talks and events organized by "Right wing" groups using violence.
Multiple reports are surfacing at an ever increasing rate of supposed leftists attacking their ideological opponents using Bear mace, Steel flag poles, thrown bricks, etc. (A quick youtube search shows that their are videos of these type of actions taking place all over the globe.)
It would be bad enough if they were actually attacking the right people, but during a live stream last night a student who was not even taking part on either side of the shitstorm at the Milo talk at Berkeley was struck in the head with a brick.
In stream I saw the person who was struck was being asked what happened by someone live streaming and he seemed very disoriented and was either mildly intoxicated or seriously concussed, but the short answer was he had no idea. (Sorry about the source, there for some reason is no real media coverage of this as of yet.)
In another video, a pro-Milo attendee is being interviewed by a reporter, is being civil and at the very end even makes a statement to the effect of, "I am just here to make my voice heard by being present, and I think the protesters are doing the same thing and props to those that are doing it non-violently.
Right before she was assaulted with Bear Mace.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs7IYyA2UCE]
Who's side would you say has the bad actors on it in this instance?
Or how about this one? I am trying to find the version I saw streamed last night, where the Milo supporter, who is laying on the ground, already unconscious, is being struck by metal poles while a woman in the background repeatedly shouts, "Kick his Ass! Fuck him up!!!". (Unfortunately this version has zero audio and terrible video, so you will just have to take my word for what was being said and the context of the video.)
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pLKE6SoGVY]
Do these people not realize that they are playing directly into the hands of those that want a reason to "go to war" with their fellow Americans?
Do they not realize that they are destroying their very credibility and wearing their hypocrisy on their sleeves for the whole world to see?
Are they any better simply because "Their motives are pure"?
What are they hoping to achieve by acting like nothing more than violent thugs that want to suppress speech? Isn't that straight out of the fascist playbook?
Look, while I might not agree with everything, or anything for that matter, that these people stand for, but for fucks sake the last thing I would want to do is silence them and force them underground, for two very important reasons.
1. I want a spotlight shined on them and their ideas, I want us to be aware of what they think and believe, I want them operating in the open not in secret clubs so we know what they are doing.
2. I am an absolutist when it comes to free speech, I believe in the concept that the very nature of our right to do so is predicated on protecting unpopular speech because popular speech by the very nature of it's popularity requires no such protection.
We need to attack their ideas with logic, not the people spouting them with weapons.
To do otherwise makes you an opponent to free speech and the constitution, and the far right will be able to use these attacks quite successfully to dismiss and minimize everything else that comes from those on the left as coming from a group of violent anti-freedom radical idiots at best and fascist thugs pretending to be leftists, or even worse, that the left is actually really just a fascist organization from the bottom down.
There are a lot of people that will buy that argument, and as more and more of these instances occur their numbers will indeed grow.
There are tons of things we need to be fighting against, and their may come a time for violence,something that I fear more and more is going to come to pass, for how can a nation remain intact when half of it's population is constantly attacking, both verbally and physically, the other half and not devolve into a full blown civil war?
How can we be headed towards anything other when this is the course so many are taking?
With people like these on both sides (unfortunately for us though, it seems that most of these actual physical attacks are coming from "Our Team".) I don't see how we can't be headed towards that iceberg and it is up to us to reign in the baser instincts of those on the left that engage in such actions and call them out for doing so. Just as we would hope our saner friends on the other side of the aisle would do to their lunatic fringe.
We can't expect the right to get their house in order while ours is full of children running amok and smashing the furniture.
At least not if we want to be perceived as anything other than hypocrites.
I lay this current state of affairs squarely at the feet of the Corporate Media.
They have been generating fear of a Trump presidency beyond all rational bounds for damn near a year now, so of course people are afraid, many even terrified.
What do people do that are afraid?
We all already know the answer to that one unfortunately, at least those of us that have studied our history that is.
Comments
Welcome back, bro. Missed you.
I feared that the Bermuda Triangle had sucked your watercraft into the depths and you with it.
I entirely agree with your point. In a comment stream just today, I remarked that in the 60's and early 70's at UC Berkeley there was a "free speech" movement, one of its purposes was to prevent dissenting opinion via boycott or shutting down the campus. The violence then was perhaps as heated as the current intolerant condition at UCB.
Even the ACLU defended the right of George Lincoln Rockwell's white supremacist, anti-semitic to peacefully parade in Skokie, Illinois where many Holocaust survivors lived.
Suppressing expression of opinion, no matter how odious one may consider that opinion is the antithesis of the First Amendment. Of all places, a University is established to enhance learning. If one cannot express differing views of issues, there is no Free Speech.
I do differ with you on laying the blame at the feet of the corporate media. Back in the 60's - 70's we had the Viet Nam war.
The ocean can't keep a real sailor down. ;)
Although truth be told R/L has been so hectic that I haven't even had a chance to take the boat out in months and months. I am planning to break that trend though as soon as I get back from Jersey.
My buddy from Finland is coming to town with his wife and family for a few months visit and he is always down to take the boat out.
I also don't like to go alone due to my spinal cord damage, I don't want to get stuck out floating in the water with nothing but my dogs for company. Zoe is a great companion and so is her little brother, but neither can drive the boat for shit.
I yield to your argument about the media, I should have phrased that more accurately.
Would a better summation be that while they didn't start the fire, they have been holding a leaf blower to the base of it for far too long? (My old trick for getting a bonfire raging quicker without dousing it in gas.
)
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
LOX
You could always pull a Trump and douse it in liquid oxygen....
(note: that line was SNARK! DO NOT ATTEMPT! Serious harm will result!)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Now I bet that would be a blast to do...
Pun intended...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
@Alphalop There's so much to say
There's so much to say about this.
About halfway through the last campaign cycle, I realized that someone was using the Presidential election as a way to expand the race war and hopefully start an ideological war on top of it.
The PTB really, really want us at each other's throats. Big time.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It saves them a lot of trouble
It saves them a lot of trouble "culling the herd" if they can get us to kill each other. They don't have to get their hands dirty, or even lift a finger - just stand on the sidelines and tut-tut about how awful it is (when it's exactly what they want).
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
A key factor to look at is how
law enforcement responds.
lf it is like Occupy or #NODAPL - ruthless, swift and overwhelming - you know it is not something TPTB want to see happening.
If it is lukewarm, mild and ineffective - like at Berkley, the Trump rallies and the Women's March - it has TPTB approval and most likely, sponsorship.
IMHO, this is a good general rule to assist with interpretation of some events.
@gustogirl I agree. I do a
I agree. I do a parallel thing with the media. They are, IMO, the best measure of whether or not the establishment is running the show.
A true movement like Occupy elicits certain clear responses from the media, or, as this guy put it, "tricks the media's biggest cornballs into outing themselves as cornballs."
It's a few years old, but it's well worth the watch:
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
terror
Alligator Ed is correct here. The fear -- every molecule of it and then some -- was there by rights and quite rationally so. The corporate media may be guilty of profiteering thereon, but it was there first.
A Trump Presidency is indeed something to fear, and now it is here.
And you are correct about what happens when large masses of the population are terrified -- especially if justifiably so, which is what we're now facing.
Thanks, Hillary, Debbie and Company! All this is your doing!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Fear of a Trump Presidency has been all over media
since the day after election day, and it figured prominently in coverage of the Inauguration. I cannot recall anything remotely like it. Then again, I can't recall any candidate, President Elect or President quite like Trump. We've become familiar with the term "the New Normal," usually used to describe things we don't like very much. I suspect that the surreal Trump Presidency will make the New Normal seem like a cakewalk in comparison to the New Abnormal.
And, of course, the PTB always have us steamed up about The Other. Outsiders. People from other countries. People of other colors, religions, ethnicities. People of other physical and mental abilities. People of other emotional strengths. (Although the saying has come down to us as "divide and conquer, I believe the original was "Divide et impera," divide and rule.)
Gee, I guess we'd best beef up surveillance and other national security measures. More surveillance, more militarization of local police forces, more government propaganda, etc.
Joseph Gordon-Leavitt, as Edward Snowden, in Oliver Stone's Snowden. (FWIW, I thought Joseph Gordon-Leavitt did a great job.)
@HenryAWallace Spot-on analysis.
Spot-on analysis.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thank you so much!
Nobody thinks this might be the
work of saboteurs?
dfarrah
Oh absolutely.
Whenever violent gangs disrupt peaceful demonstrations, marches, or protests, they wear masks, and that means we can't know who they are, and they could be anybody. SInce the very first march against the Vietnam War in which I knew there were such gangs I suspected they were CIA or other professional dis-creditors, hired thugs used to discredit the peaceful protest of the war.
But in Berkeley at this time I have read there is at least one group that openly states they will disrupt right wing speech or rallies with violence, and they wear masks. I consider the wearing of masks while assaulting people to be cowardice on top of being a serious crime. So at this point, it's hard to say who these people are. But they do succeed in preventing the freedom to speak or to peacefully protest.
Hmmmm, someone needs to
come up with a creative way to identify these people and expose their game.
dfarrah
saboteurs
The Trump Presidency, and the quite rational fears that go with it, are the fruit of the sabotage of the Democratic Primary by Hillary Clinton and company. My remark was a reminder that in essence these were the saboteurs in question.
The nihilists who are doing the violence are merely taking up where these left off.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that Trump shouldn't be
feared, or more so his actions, but that the fears were stoked to levels beyond justification based on the current circumstances.
Sure he has the potential to do awful things, and we should be rallying in the streets if and when he does so, but to do so prematurely takes a lot of the legitimacy from the argument when we try to raise it later AFTER or while he is actively trying to do something that requires such a response.
I dunno, I don't want to say "Keep your powder dry." as that has been the rallying cry of the CorpoDems for decades, but at the same time one should be strategic in the use of ones resources and when choosing the field of battle.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
@Alphalop Well, the point is,
Well, the point is, what do you want? Do you want the Bad Man to go away, or do you want to make sure you never get another "choice" like Hillary vs Trump, with a heaping helping of election fraud and voter suppression on the side?
Unfortunately, most people seem to just want the Bad Man to go away.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I mostly agree
I think there is a place for violent protests in some instances, but so far they've picked the wrong victims in almost every case, and did it in cowardly ways to boot.
@gjohnsit And in a way that serves
And in a way that serves some very ugly establishment goals, whether intentionally or not.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I disagree with you, gjohnsit.
I don't believe violent protest is ever warranted or successful.
Depending on how you look at it...
some might say that many civil wars are a form of violent protest that is used when the non-violent forms fail.
Depending on what side you are on and what you are fighting for often can not be won any other way.
I would suggest that many of the victims of the Khmer Rouge wished for some violent protest to take place.
I know that if presented with that sort of regime I would fully embrace violence to defeat it, but ymmv.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
The American and French revolutuions
come to mind.
I understand and
I appreciate your points about violence in revolution or resistance when it seems there is no other recourse. As a pacifist I say we should not arm Fascists, death squads, dictators, or known oppressors, including our own oppressors. Hitler could have harmed no one had he not been equipped with private, well-financed terrorist armies and a state of the art military industrial force with which to threaten Europe and crush all military and civilian resistance. But I do understand that once faced with an armed threat the decision to fight and protect is natural.
People associated with Hillary's campaign were recorded
talking about hiring people to be violent at Trump rallies. There were ads in papers offering to pay people to disrupt the inauguration. It goes with Hillary's McCarthyism. Ugly.
Is it partly a result of all this nastiness that Rasmussen shows Trump's public approval rising?
I've been watching those polls
Rasmussen has been a consistent outlier on the positive side for Trump. All the other polls have him below %50 approval, which I think is historically low for an incoming President. Right now the RCP average of polls is 45.3% approve and 47.3% disapprove. The approval would be a couple of points lower, I think, without Rasmussen. Not a good start for the pumpkin fuhrer.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Those other polls have been over-sampling Dems all along
by 8 - 10%. There's even a paper in the Podesta emails that talks about how to do it. Not just self-identified Democrats, which is all you can find in the poll write-ups, but other groups they considered sympathetic to Hillary. That's why all those polls made the election outcome so surprising - to some.
I suspect they are still corrupt, like the Party.
Not like Rasmussen is known as the most trustworthy pollster
New CBS poll today: 40% approve, 48% disapprove. WTF is there to like about that fascist clown?
Beware the bullshit factories.
CBS is one of the big over-samplers
@Timmethy2.0 People's
People's expectations are extremely low. Gee, whose fault is that.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And, of course, some alleged "Bernie Bros"
showed up to disrupt Hillary's diminutive gatherings, even making little kids cry. I never believed for a second that they were actually supporters of Sanders.
Standing rock is a model...
for non-violent action.
Good to see you back Alpha...been wondering about you. Safe travels up north.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Or more precisely,
Standing Rock protestors are non-violent. Their opposition has been quite violent.
Masked protesters dressed in black & claiming to be "anarchists"
Those violent protesters don't even care about Milo whatsisname. If they are in fact "black bloc" as reported, they are not protesting his speech, their goal is chaos and to "tear it all down" and groups like this have been disrupting various types of otherwise peaceful protests for a long time. It's a mistake to blame everyone who was there for the actions of these individuals.
That said, after reading up today on this Milo character (and I use the term character deliberately; he's literally a persona), I think protesting him, even peacefully, is a waste of time and a fool's errand, at best.
The best description I saw:
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/203888/donald-trumps-l...
This is absolutely playing into the hands of Trump's string pullers. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the masked protesters who stormed the event and forced this story into the headlines today are actually working for Bannon/Milo et al. They absolutely want this kind of drama, and are certainly not above creating it themselves.
I wouldn't be surprised if Milo pays the protestors
Or if another propagandist, like Bannon, pays them. Either way, best thing the crowd can do is disperse quickly and leave the rioters and police alone with each other, or else help arrest them.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Agreed Alpha
No good will come from this, If anything it will make it harder to have peaceful protests. Trump can't wait to send the troops out somewhere or everywhere depending on his mood. He has already threatened to send the Feds here to Chicagoland to straighten shit out (whatever that means) and yesterday Rahm Emmanuel went on the news and said he should quit talking and send them already. (whatever the fuck that means) As bad as shit is it will be much worse under Martial law.
@pro left Awesome, Rahm. Blaming
Awesome, Rahm. Blaming Donald Trump for not sending the federal version of goons to bust heads in your city. Way to place yourself to the right of Donald Trump, you piece of shit.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Exactly CSTS
What a POS.
someone has to call out Trumps BS
unfortunately Rahm isn't that someone. and I'm not sure who
on the "left" is that someone or even if that someone exists as any
and all that gravitated to her heinous are disqualified on that basis
alone.
right now from what I read here Trump is winning, well that's not
hard to do in a one man game(sorry for the gender specific).
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
I can't help but wonder if there are undercover FBI agents
encouraging this.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
That was my first hopeful thought as well...
but based on the actions from those in the Clinton Camp that I have seen at TOP as well as countless other places leave me no choice but to believe that while the flames may have been fanned by outside agitators the will to do violence against those that divert from the "Correct" way of thinking is present in ample supply.
Back during the primary wars over there one flat out stated that they hoped I got assaulted by Trump supporters simply for saying that I could never cast a vote for a candidate that supported the death penalty.
TOP is just a microcosm of what the Democratic Party as a whole has generally become.
Now back to work I go or I will start earning dirty looks from Mrs. Alpha. I'll pop back in later this evening though to read the comments above more deeply.
Thanks all!
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
First, good to see you again!
I lurk more than comment these days, for many of the same R/L reasons -- but it's still nice to "see" old "faces." Safe travels, too!
More to your point: Sarah Silverman is openly calling for a military coup against Trump. What the ever-loving fuck?
OK, I'm convinced that Silverman has lost her mind.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
@Lily O Lady She is nutty. I do
She is nutty. I do not want Trump removed by violence or by impeachment.
Pence worries me much more than Trump. In the past Pence has based his political decisions on his religious beliefs. His beliefs are a hybrid of conservative Catholicism and evangelical Protestant beliefs. He generally chooses the most conservative ideas from each faith tradition. For about the last five years Pence has become very evasive about his religious ideas. Pence has always very ambitious politically and he knows that religious dogma that is acceptable in central Indiana would be strongly rejected elsewhere. Some of Pence's ideas are even too conservative for Indiana.
Pence is much more authoritarian than Trump. Trump wants to be admired and liked; Pence wants to be in control. Trump does not seem to have fixed ideas about policy; Pence has a rigid religious ideology he would like to impose on the world.
Pence might be able to work efficienty with Ryan to implement a lot of policies we would not like.
@asterisk Yeah. This.
Yeah. This.
This is rational thinking.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
That would require
that she had one to begin with. I have seen no evidence to that effect.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Sarah Silverman
Sarah Silverman is one seriously fucked-up thus-and-such!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Agreed.... That woman is nuttier than a....
turd after eating a case of Snickers bars...
I found her early comedy entertaining but then she went and got all famous and fell into the trap of thinking that her opinion matters more than other peoples and is always the right one.
Something that is far to common on both sides of the aisle...
There is a certain wisdom in realizing that quite often one can be wrong.
Well except for me of course, I am always right.
The sole exception being that one time when I thought I was wrong about something but turned out I wasn't.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Everybody is right all the time
That's the problem with the World. We just need a mass realization that nobody knows anything, especially those politicians who pretend to know everything. We should all just shut up and learn.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Indeed, as Socrates so eloquently & succulency stated
"The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing."
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I already posited
that the clintonistas and BO and the rest of the gang were trying to overthrow Trump.
I still think they are trying to overthrow Trump.
dfarrah
@dfarrah Well, it's a pretty
Well, it's a pretty good path to Civil War, along racial and ideological lines, and that's the brass ring they're reaching for.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I think that there are undercover people who are
creating anarchy at the protests that would have been peaceful if not for those agitators.
There are many states that are trying to pass legislation to make any type of protests illegal and come with heavy fines and prison sentences.
And don't forget how they militarized the police and that many of them have gone to Israel for training.
I believe that what happened in Waterton after the Boston bombings was a trial run of martial law to see how people would react to SWAT teams going into people's homes without a warrant and their huge military equipment rolling through the streets.
The people in Waterton failed that test IMO.
And we've seen how the police treated the OWS protesters when mayors all over the country had the police brutally arrest the peaceful protesters. Same with the BLM protesters. They were peaceful UNTIL THE COPS SHOWED UP.
From the link from Joe's diary on DK that Steven linked to in his essay today
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/how-the-war-on-terr...
In case you are interested in Joe's diary on DK from a few years ago.
Joe did an excellent job about how Obamas's DHS was involved with taking down OWS
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/6/7/1095420/-FOIA-Revelations-Show-Ad...
I think that Obamas's job was to shut up the anti war movement and Trump's job is to divide the country even more and when people finally have enough of our leader's bullshit and rise up against them they will be ready for us.
They have been practicing with OWS, BLM and the DAPL protesters.
Meanwhile when they brutally arrest people, half of the people cheer them on. What they don't know is that one day they will come for them too.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.
I Remain A Free Speech Movement Supporter
The first people to be muzzled by a clamp-down on free speech will be those currently most at risk - the poor, minorities, people with unpopular opinions. I would much rather have viewpoints aired with which I disagree totally than to see them skulk into power via alt-right channels.
It's getting harder and harder for me
to consider myself as being part of "the Left". Whatever the hell that's supposed to be. If it's not TOP's crew of bourgeois apologists for the status quo, then what is it? There is no leadership within these protests, no direction to them, and no coherent purpose behind them. The "Left" such as it is, seems to have devolved into inchoate mobs of panicky, self-righteous protesters who are incapable of rational analysis, and unwilling to face the fact that Trump won the election. They don't seem to care why that happened, and they have no fucking clue what to do about it, other than to yell and scream and break things.
These idiots are making Trump look good, solely because of their own blind hatred and fear of him. Rather than organizing constructively to counter the System that made Trump possible, they prefer to "act out" like infants deprived of their favorite toys, all the while strengthening the very forces they pretend to oppose.
Somebody, somehow, needs to focus this rage in a constructive direction, before it destroys the foundations of its own legitimacy.
native
Im voting for agitators paid or unpaid
being involved in this riot. Im thinking of the iron self control of the DAP,BLM and occupy protestors. Also the 10k people at the local womens march and the couple of discussions i witnessed there. This looks like a set up to me. Horrific. And can only help the fascist types
@native Thank you so much for
Thank you so much for saying that.
This is not a renaissance for the Left. This is the left's destruction. We are now having our version of 9-11, and a lot of us are reacting pretty much exactly like the right reacted after that day. Justifying violence, charges of treachery (if you're not with us you're against us), intense focus on personality, character assassinations, creating categories of people to despise, attempting to set Americans at each other's throats while calling simultaneously for unity, an authoritarian worship of leaders...
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Joe McCarthy all over again
Only even uglier.
I'm not sure I know what a lot of these words and ism's
mean any more. One minute Bannon is a fascist, the next he's a tear it all down Leninist. I used to think those were opposites. Then it's on to misogynist anti Semite. Maybe these days in America you can be whatever you want a sort of soft ideology, relative, and mutable daily or if Trump the length of time it takes to tweet. I'm shedding dogma and ideology as it seems to me somewhat useless at least for me to discern what actually happening. As I move towards the event horizon I now try to assess whether an event or person is making things better or making things worse. This is all very relative and leads to cognitive dissonance dare I mention a Buddhist "be in the present moment" mindset. Maybe Joseph Tainter was in to something. Is our current state what happens when COMPLEXITY starts bringing diminishing returns. Is that what happening? Is Trump a kind of foolish longing for simplicity. Vote for the stupid asshole because we know somethings going to happen, sort of lighting a stick of dynamite and waiting for the fuse to burn down or finally reaching the inflection point. How many bombs have we seen burn down on TV or the movies. Are we stuck in some möbius Mcgyver moment when all we really wanted was peace and quiet and simplicity. I know this ...neither Trump nor Clinton will bring us any serenity.
serenity
That's because Clinton is Trump, as I've said here so many times!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides Preach it.
Preach it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It's just name-calling
without any content to the names beyond hatred and Other-ing the object.
This is not a positive or constructive development, for society or the name-callers.
Well, one thing is for sure, there is a lot to talk about on
this issue and we really need to be holding conversations with those on the "Left" (I use quotes because I too am unsure what that really means anymore and feel that whatever it is that the left has become doesn't have a descriptor yet, but I am leaning towards "Corpocrats".) about it.
Not that I think they will be fruitful because a LOT of the people that we speak to will of course condemn such actions when talking to ME about it, but their closet sympathizer traits come right to the front if you put forth the initial impression that you look upon the
protestersthugs acts favorably.Try it for yourself if you don't believe me. I bet you will be surprised at how many Democrats are 100% in favor of violence as long as it is against Trump supporters in particular, but conservatives in general as well as the "Lunatic Far left" that let Trump win.
Wait, I thought that was the Russians? Who knows, it's so hard to keep track of who they are blaming for their loss. Us, the Russians, that guy that looked at them funny in line the other day, it's gotta be one of those "others". All they are positive of is it wasn't their own damned fault.
They see them, and us, as the enemy.
And they are right, but for different reasons than they think.
The big problem is we all know what happens when the mob mentality is looking for an enemy other than themselves they will find one.
Even if they gotta make them up. It's happened before.
It's always happened before.
It just happens to be the hippies turn. (Again...)
Sigh.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I think progressive is the term you are looking for
We can be damn sure that both Obama and Hillary cannot be tainted with that descriptor. The entire political spectrum has been pushed so far to the right since Reagan that Nixon is now more liberal than the Democratic party.
Not just Nixon, either.
And it's not just Nixon, either. Barry Fucking Goldwater is to the left of today's Dems. All we'd need for a George Wallace Presidency is to teach Herr Wallace to make more and better use of the dog-whistle......
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Wallace was a total hypocrite
His first campaign, he ran as vaguely progressive (probably what he really believed) - and got walloped. Every campaign after that, he parroted the Dixiecrat party line to the letter and punctuation mark, and consistently won because he was reflecting back what his voters wanted to hear.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Trump is at work destroying the EPA
which Nixon signed into law, so, yeah, Nixon was a commie.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Nixon wasn't "for" it, he just knew better than to
get in the way of a public juggernaut. Pity he didn't have as much sense when it came to elections.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Your's is the saddest commentary of all.
The fact that we have lost (had stolen from us) the ability to influence our world. Being powerless is not something I find comforting, yet being powerless seems to be becoming the norm.
The angry lanquage is more about being powerless than about having strong convictions. The sad thing is: Trump knows this while too many of those that oppose him do not know this.
What an astute observation....
I agree 100% with it too.
It is a sad state of affairs we find ourselves burdened with.
As it always will be, the burden will fall on the poor, those that have nothing left to lose, and the fighters for principle.
No matter which group you are in, it sucks to be us...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
KOS is trying.
His site is "progressive" now, don'tcha know. LMFAO.
If KOS is "progressive" then the Democratic party is f*d
KOS and his top minions herd the members like sheep. Every time I visit the place, I mostly hear bleating.
LoL! I got my very first flagging for linking that video...
alongside the comment that it was sounding awful similar to Clinton, Kos and their followers. (I apologize in advance for my slander against sheep to the sheep enthusiasts, those useful creatures really do not deserve to be branded with the the label "Clintonista".... )
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
@WaterLily I'd LMAO too, except
I'd LMAO too, except that it's too much like Julie Musante rewriting the dictionary:
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Call the "Left" what? "Hillary's useful idiots"? Suckers?
Puppets for the elite?
It brings to mind "What's the Matter with Kansas?"
I just love how people are calling this a 'riot'...
That being said, the destructive behavior that DID take place will give fodder to the idiot alt-right. I can certainly understand protesting an SOB like Milo given how he's organized and led hate campaigns (among other shitty things), but like I said, this only gives Trump (and Milo) and his shit shirts more ammo.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Hmmmm. Milo Y's book sales up 12 thousand percent over night.
A truly dangerous faggot with an evil plan to boot. My oh my who could have known?
What's worse is that almost everyone appears to be
taking to social media to justify punching fascists.
That was one of the last big trends to happen before I left Twitter. People on the Left saying things like "If you don't agree with punching him, I'm going to block you" and "If you don't agree with punching him, you're my enemy."
I know it sounds weird to say that's worse than the actual punching. But the closer we get to normalizing the punching, the farther and faster the punching spreads. And the sooner it becomes more than punching (looks like that's already happening. Flag poles, FFS).
Also the "you're either with us or you're against us" mentality is an extremely ugly, dangerous mentality. Awesome how many on the Left have adopted the ideas of Bush Republicans.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal One of the stupidest
One of the stupidest things I heard on Twitter was people saying "Well, punching Nazis was what got rid of them the last time."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Wow... just wow...
Man, I am so glad I am not on Twitter, I would have zero patience dealing with that level of stupid nonsense.
I don't think they realize that they are the ones wearing the frigging jackboots in their scenario...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
@Alphalop I can't believe they
I can't believe they compared Omaha Beach to punching one neo-Nazi media figure.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Alphalop I'm not on Twitter
I'm not on Twitter anymore, and that's part of why.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Twitter is *proving* that it's for twits
just as I have long suspected.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Twitter has turned into a place where idiots go to advertise
their stupidity. Most of the stuff posted there is a waste of time. I've used it to pass on stuff that I think people should read, but other than the tweets posted in articles I never see any of the stuff posted on that site.
When I was in school we passed around these horrible things called 'slam books' where people wrote what they thought about other people. Poor kids, unattractive kids, those who weren't part of what was the 'in' crowd really got piled on. They were downright horrible and I said so. I was completely slammed by the 'cool' kids for that. Talked about my clothes (didn't have money in my family), hair, one day I had holes in my socks and someone saw that when I was changing for gym so that was a big source of comedy for a couple of days. As far as I'm concerned Twitter is just an internet 'slam book'.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Indeed, not just advertise it, but wallow in it with abandon...
What is disheartening is the amount of company they have.
More and more I feel that I can sympathize with minorities, as it appears that we are the "Sane People."
A fact that in and of itself is somewhat frightening to me, because if I am one of the saner ones than the rest of the world really must be full blown batshit crazy...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Alphalop,
thank you for saying everything you said about free speech. I agree so very strongly. I was a student at Cal during the Free Speech movement and listened every day to the voices of protest against any restriction of that right. It really throws me that it is people on the left now violently preventing a person from speaking in that very place in which we protested. How is this possible?
@Linda Wood We haven't all forgotten
We haven't all forgotten. Some of the younger generations know what you did. (And thanks).
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The violent rioters in Berkeley were dressed
the same as the violent rioters at the Occupy marches in Oakland that turned out to be olice agents provocateurs. Just sayin'.
On to Biden since 1973
That is definitely so
They were trained agent provocateurs. Living near Berkeley, I can tell you that the makeup of the student body has changed completely since the protest days of the 60s and 70s. It's a bunch of nerds, who have been able to get into the top public university in the world (or near the top) and they're working hard to get their degree and career. Since the 80s, the student body has been pretty apolitical. Maybe Trump is changing that.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Isn't that an improvement
over his pre election numbers? unfocused violence always does that - almost like it's planned that way. Didn't the "orange revolution" in Ukraine result in a (planned) fascist regime?
On to Biden since 1973
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