you wont find much Hillary love here, quite the contrary. If Bernie drops out of the race, for whatever reason, it's probable that this site will go full blown in support of the Greens.
Thanks for posting here and hope to see more from you.
I was just up for a midnight snack when I typed this "diary."
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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
would be better. Voting third party will just be the same thing where they'll get 1-3% of the vote like usual and no one will notice. If the right people organized a boycott focusing on the FACT that we do not live in a democracy, maybe we could start the ball rolling to something bigger. Voting Green doesn't focus on that fact, it pretends that if somehow enough Greens gained office things could change which won't happen.
always run up against one big, insurmountable, problem -- how do you know who's "boycotting" and who simply forgot to vote? Answer: you don't. This is why protest votes are always better.
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0 users have voted.
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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
this country? Everyone on here is saying they don't work and all this, where's the historical backup for that in this country? Versus trying to vote for third parties of which we have an extensive history of basically failure. It hasn't moved the needle an iota. Like someone said, election Stein got less than 1% of the vote, while well over 40% of eligible voters didn't vote. I think there's more potential of registering a protest through a boycott than voting for Stein who will surely get less than 1% again.
I'm not advocating a total boycott as I've tried to explain many times. People see "voter boycott" and they automatically assume it means not voting at all. I could be on board with a boycott of the duopoly which would mean we could vote third party or not and all be part of a boycott. It has to be organized for it to work, major league organization so it gets attention and the people that don't vote and want to be counted as those who boycotted can be counted as such. It could be simply focused on the Presidential election if it comes out to Clinton vs. Trump. Just form a boycott of Clinton vs. Trump and be it a vote for Stein, a write-in for Sanders, or whatever, it's still a boycott.
I guess the question to me is do people want a new political system or are they fine with the one we have only want more representation via third parties?
both Bernie and the Hairball are experiencing I would say yes people do want a new system. The problem as I see it isn't apathy, but the deluded belief that nothing can be done outside the duopoly structure in place. Other then a full on violent revolution they see no way to affect the system and not many regular people want to hit the streets. The goon squad enforcers have made it quite clear as to what they are willing to do to any insurgents who promote civil unrest. Fear keeps the power right where they want it.
Third parties are shut out of the process by design. People have been convinced that they are just a waste of their votes. On the other hand look at how many people are Independents. Is that not a third party or just a pox on both houses? I think that if Bernie is cheated out of the nomination there will be blow back. In my dreams if this happens Bernie will run as an Indy and use his supporters to create a real political revolution and give the rat bastards Dems. a run for their money. Meanwhile I'm not voting for any Dem. candidate down ticket or on the top that the oligarchical collectivists tell me i have to ratify with my vote. So maybe I am boycotting but it's symbolic as long as people are giving their consent to let these evil fucks have power.
People already do boycott the electoral system. How many do not vote? I have a friend who is a teacher and is very community minded who never voted until she registered and voted for Obama. She always said not voting is my vote. I read a book years ago when I became politically active called Political Fictions. It was a series of essays by Joan Didion while covering the campaign trail of the Clinton/ Bush election. The premise was that there is no such thing as voter apathy and not voting only empowers the broken system. Interesting developments and movements going on these surreal days. One thing I know is that politics are not static and ordinary people can and do stop the inevitable evil fucks if they go too far.
like a low voter turn out. Culls the trouble making non believers from the delusional voters who buy this political fiction. It has the added benefit of giving their kabuki credibility as they were duly elected by the voters. They can then proceed to declare victories for compromise and cry the evil obstructionists made me do it. Representational democracy with full electoral participation is an impediment to the nasty ass global agenda both sides work hard to keep in place.
on XM Radio the other day, who left Nate Silver in the dust for the last election cycles (on accuracy). I can't find my note, but I 'think' his name is Dr. Sam Wong.
Anyhoo, he doesn't work with polls, but other statistics--including historical data.
He believes that Trump's chance of landing the Republican nomination is as strong as FSC's to take the Dem Party nomination (and of GWB's, and Al Gore's).
But, there is some 'good news.' At this point, while Bernie's surge is not reason to predict that Bernie will win the nomination, he said that if Bernie were to win both Iowa and New Hampshire (which he doesn't think is impossible, by any means), he will have to totally reevaluate his statistics/conclusion. He was clearly impressed by the recent tightening polls, and trend.
Again, this gentleman missed only one race in the past couple of election cycles, if I understood them correctly, and that was out of scores of races--President, Senatorial, Reps, and even Governors. A considerably stronger record than Nate Silver's.
My biggest concern, like yours, is that the Dem Party Establishment will deny Senator Sanders the nomination, somehow. (along the lines of what they did to Howard Dean)
But, since I don't have a crystal ball, I'll just leave it at that. I'm 'guessing' that the best deterrent is an organized push back, if this should happen.
already. We voted for Jill Stein in 2012 as neither of us could stomach more Obama. I was shocked that she ended up with less then 5% of the vote. We also down ticket voted for every socialist or Green on the ballot. The only Democratic candidate I have voted for since 2012 was Merkley. The super delegates will try to cheat him out of the nomination which will be interesting as far as the Democratic party's fate goes. Interesting times. There is no way I'll vote for Hillary or any local, state or national weasel in the bag Dem. My state is solidly Democratic and they are all corrupt, corporate and bent. The Democratic city government here in Portland is really bad and bills itself as environmental and progressive. I'm with you Cassiodorus go Green.
that is, less than half of one per cent. Now that is sad. Surely there are more than 496,501 lefties of voting age who disliked Obama. Some libertarian guy got almost 3 times what she got, although still less than 1 percent. Close to it but just short.
About 129 million voted for President and of those, 127 million voted for either Obama or Romney. If I'm counting correctly it looks like fewer people voted in 2012 than in 2008. So perhaps 3 million or so boycotted as Al suggests. If so...well, I just don't see that it was effective.
voters elected a Green prime minister Winfried Kretschmann. The context of that election, only weeks after Fukushima, was that the losing CDU prime minister, Stefan Mappus, was Germany's leading pro-nuclear-power politician.
With a new state election coming up in March, the Greens are polling 28% to the Social Democrats' 19%.
Staggering success — I still can't quite believe it.
voting since WWII or so, they have no chance and the best the Greens will get is in the 1-3% range. It will not make a statement at all.
A boycott COULD, and I say could if done right, make a statement. We already have half the voting population to work with.
Here's what the establishment wants, ranked by preference:
1) A loyal voter of the corporate/war parties
2) A disengaged non-voter
3) A voter of the non-corporate/war parties
4) A local political activist outside of the establishment
Voting for a 3rd party candidate at least send a message that you are engaged and you don't approve, but you aren't willing to do much about it.
Being a non-voter only means that you aren't aware, you aren't engaged, and the establishment is free to do whatever it likes.
Anyone running for the dem or repub parties is an establishment candidate in my book. And I said we could focus the boycott just on those two parties while voting for third parties.
don't vote for representatives are engaged and are willing to do something about it, which is why they don't vote? You seem to be chalking up everyone that doesn't vote as apathetic, non-caring, not engaged, and they just don't care. Which is what the establishment media and ruling class say about it also.
And nice to see you here, Cass. Just started following you over at DK, and have been rummaging through your past diaries. Really looking forward to more posts from you here.
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0 users have voted.
—
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
is so user friendly that even a mostly techo illiterate such as me can use it easily. My only hint to anyone writing a diary, an essay, or whatever you want to call it, is that the Save and Continue button is your best friend when composing. Also we can edit comments like I am doing right now.
I hope we read more from you, Cass.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, I will write him in. A lot of write-in votes would be a lot more visible than a boycott. Plus, it makes it quite clear what my presidential vote is about, who it is for, and who against.
Comments
Thanks Cass...
you wont find much Hillary love here, quite the contrary. If Bernie drops out of the race, for whatever reason, it's probable that this site will go full blown in support of the Greens.
Thanks for posting here and hope to see more from you.
JtC (Johnny the Conqueroo)
Thanks Johnny!
I was just up for a midnight snack when I typed this "diary."
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
I voted for Jill Stein last time, will do so again if
Bernie isn't the nominee.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
I'm writing about some of this
so if we get comments tonight they might also fit the Thursday OT.
Tactically, I think a full blown organized boycott
would be better. Voting third party will just be the same thing where they'll get 1-3% of the vote like usual and no one will notice. If the right people organized a boycott focusing on the FACT that we do not live in a democracy, maybe we could start the ball rolling to something bigger. Voting Green doesn't focus on that fact, it pretends that if somehow enough Greens gained office things could change which won't happen.
Election boycotts -
always run up against one big, insurmountable, problem -- how do you know who's "boycotting" and who simply forgot to vote? Answer: you don't. This is why protest votes are always better.
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
When has there been a nationally organized boycott in
this country? Everyone on here is saying they don't work and all this, where's the historical backup for that in this country? Versus trying to vote for third parties of which we have an extensive history of basically failure. It hasn't moved the needle an iota. Like someone said, election Stein got less than 1% of the vote, while well over 40% of eligible voters didn't vote. I think there's more potential of registering a protest through a boycott than voting for Stein who will surely get less than 1% again.
I'm not advocating a total boycott as I've tried to explain many times. People see "voter boycott" and they automatically assume it means not voting at all. I could be on board with a boycott of the duopoly which would mean we could vote third party or not and all be part of a boycott. It has to be organized for it to work, major league organization so it gets attention and the people that don't vote and want to be counted as those who boycotted can be counted as such. It could be simply focused on the Presidential election if it comes out to Clinton vs. Trump. Just form a boycott of Clinton vs. Trump and be it a vote for Stein, a write-in for Sanders, or whatever, it's still a boycott.
I guess the question to me is do people want a new political system or are they fine with the one we have only want more representation via third parties?
Given the popularity
both Bernie and the Hairball are experiencing I would say yes people do want a new system. The problem as I see it isn't apathy, but the deluded belief that nothing can be done outside the duopoly structure in place. Other then a full on violent revolution they see no way to affect the system and not many regular people want to hit the streets. The goon squad enforcers have made it quite clear as to what they are willing to do to any insurgents who promote civil unrest. Fear keeps the power right where they want it.
Third parties are shut out of the process by design. People have been convinced that they are just a waste of their votes. On the other hand look at how many people are Independents. Is that not a third party or just a pox on both houses? I think that if Bernie is cheated out of the nomination there will be blow back. In my dreams if this happens Bernie will run as an Indy and use his supporters to create a real political revolution and give the rat bastards Dems. a run for their money. Meanwhile I'm not voting for any Dem. candidate down ticket or on the top that the oligarchical collectivists tell me i have to ratify with my vote. So maybe I am boycotting but it's symbolic as long as people are giving their consent to let these evil fucks have power.
People already do boycott the electoral system. How many do not vote? I have a friend who is a teacher and is very community minded who never voted until she registered and voted for Obama. She always said not voting is my vote. I read a book years ago when I became politically active called Political Fictions. It was a series of essays by Joan Didion while covering the campaign trail of the Clinton/ Bush election. The premise was that there is no such thing as voter apathy and not voting only empowers the broken system. Interesting developments and movements going on these surreal days. One thing I know is that politics are not static and ordinary people can and do stop the inevitable evil fucks if they go too far.
Plus the owners of the place
like a low voter turn out. Culls the trouble making non believers from the delusional voters who buy this political fiction. It has the added benefit of giving their kabuki credibility as they were duly elected by the voters. They can then proceed to declare victories for compromise and cry the evil obstructionists made me do it. Representational democracy with full electoral participation is an impediment to the nasty ass global agenda both sides work hard to keep in place.
Done! ;-) BTW, heard a Princeton statistician
on XM Radio the other day, who left Nate Silver in the dust for the last election cycles (on accuracy). I can't find my note, but I 'think' his name is Dr. Sam Wong.
Anyhoo, he doesn't work with polls, but other statistics--including historical data.
He believes that Trump's chance of landing the Republican nomination is as strong as FSC's to take the Dem Party nomination (and of GWB's, and Al Gore's).
But, there is some 'good news.' At this point, while Bernie's surge is not reason to predict that Bernie will win the nomination, he said that if Bernie were to win both Iowa and New Hampshire (which he doesn't think is impossible, by any means), he will have to totally reevaluate his statistics/conclusion. He was clearly impressed by the recent tightening polls, and trend.
Again, this gentleman missed only one race in the past couple of election cycles, if I understood them correctly, and that was out of scores of races--President, Senatorial, Reps, and even Governors. A considerably stronger record than Nate Silver's.
My biggest concern, like yours, is that the Dem Party Establishment will deny Senator Sanders the nomination, somehow. (along the lines of what they did to Howard Dean)
But, since I don't have a crystal ball, I'll just leave it at that. I'm 'guessing' that the best deterrent is an organized push back, if this should happen.
Nice to see you posting, here.
Welcome!
Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress
"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."--Japanese Proverb
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
This is my plan
already. We voted for Jill Stein in 2012 as neither of us could stomach more Obama. I was shocked that she ended up with less then 5% of the vote. We also down ticket voted for every socialist or Green on the ballot. The only Democratic candidate I have voted for since 2012 was Merkley. The super delegates will try to cheat him out of the nomination which will be interesting as far as the Democratic party's fate goes. Interesting times. There is no way I'll vote for Hillary or any local, state or national weasel in the bag Dem. My state is solidly Democratic and they are all corrupt, corporate and bent. The Democratic city government here in Portland is really bad and bills itself as environmental and progressive. I'm with you Cassiodorus go Green.
did you know that Jill Stein's vote was 0.36%?
that is, less than half of one per cent. Now that is sad. Surely there are more than 496,501 lefties of voting age who disliked Obama. Some libertarian guy got almost 3 times what she got, although still less than 1 percent. Close to it but just short.
About 129 million voted for President and of those, 127 million voted for either Obama or Romney. If I'm counting correctly it looks like fewer people voted in 2012 than in 2008. So perhaps 3 million or so boycotted as Al suggests. If so...well, I just don't see that it was effective.
In the German state of Baden-Württemberg, home to Mercedes Benz,
voters elected a Green prime minister Winfried Kretschmann. The context of that election, only weeks after Fukushima, was that the losing CDU prime minister, Stefan Mappus, was Germany's leading pro-nuclear-power politician.
With a new state election coming up in March, the Greens are polling 28% to the Social Democrats' 19%.
Staggering success — I still can't quite believe it.
That's my point. If you look at the history of third party
voting since WWII or so, they have no chance and the best the Greens will get is in the 1-3% range. It will not make a statement at all.
A boycott COULD, and I say could if done right, make a statement. We already have half the voting population to work with.
Boycott's are useless
Here's what the establishment wants, ranked by preference:
1) A loyal voter of the corporate/war parties
2) A disengaged non-voter
3) A voter of the non-corporate/war parties
4) A local political activist outside of the establishment
Voting for a 3rd party candidate at least send a message that you are engaged and you don't approve, but you aren't willing to do much about it.
Being a non-voter only means that you aren't aware, you aren't engaged, and the establishment is free to do whatever it likes.
Exactly...
IMHO, if a boycott accomplishes anything, it will be to help elect an establishment candidate.
Can you give an example of that?
Anyone running for the dem or repub parties is an establishment candidate in my book. And I said we could focus the boycott just on those two parties while voting for third parties.
That's different
I didn't see your other comment above. Sorry
You do know that a large percentage of the people who
don't vote for representatives are engaged and are willing to do something about it, which is why they don't vote? You seem to be chalking up everyone that doesn't vote as apathetic, non-caring, not engaged, and they just don't care. Which is what the establishment media and ruling class say about it also.
Precisely....
And nice to see you here, Cass. Just started following you over at DK, and have been rummaging through your past diaries. Really looking forward to more posts from you here.
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
You're welcome!
And yeah, I like the software over there.
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
The software here
is so user friendly that even a mostly techo illiterate such as me can use it easily. My only hint to anyone writing a diary, an essay, or whatever you want to call it, is that the Save and Continue button is your best friend when composing.
Also we can edit comments like I am doing right now.
I hope we read more from you, Cass.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I almost always vote 3rd party
Any 3rd party. It doesn't matter, as long as it isn't Dems or Repubs.
However, if Sanders wins, I might have to change that.
Welcome Cass...
You will find this site another cozy place to snuggle up and visit with good friends.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Welcome aboard, Cass!
Great to see you here.
Supporting the Greens is exactly my plan if Bernie doesn't get the nomination.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
afternoon cass...
that's my current plan. great to see you over here.
If Bernie doesn't get the
If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, I will write him in. A lot of write-in votes would be a lot more visible than a boycott. Plus, it makes it quite clear what my presidential vote is about, who it is for, and who against.
Hey, Granma -- A very 'hearty welcome' to you! ;-)
Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress
"The Morning Glory which blooms for a day (sic, an hour) differs not at heart from the Giant Pine, which lives for a thousand years."--Zen Poem
"Be a lantern to yourself and a refuge. Draw close to the light within yourself, and seek no other shelter."--Buddhist Wisdom
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.