Morning Open Thread - Wed January 6, 2016 Police Brutality
For last week's Open Thread I wrote about the precipitous rise in police killings in the United States even though overall crime has been going down during the same time period.
Police are assassinating people at alarming rates and while overall crime has been going down, the rate of murder by cop is rising. This year, nearly 1,200 people have died at the hands of police officers, most of them shot to death.
According to a paper published by Global Research in December 2013, a non-military US citizen is 29 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist. Another jarring statistic cited in that same paper covers the number of citizens killed by police as well as the increasing use of SWAT teams which can lead to even more police brutality.
The increase in police brutality in this country is a frightening reality. In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489.
What went wrong? In the 1970’s SWAT teams were estimated to be used just a few hundred times per year, now we are looking at over 40,000 military style “knock and announce” police raids a year.
This week I thought we might begin to look at some of the underlying causes of increased police brutality upon the citizens that they are sworn to serve and protect. While there are many reasons, this diary will touch upon only a few.
In researching articles on the underlying causes of police brutality, I came upon several different listings which I will link here. The Alternet published an article in December of 2014 which examines a Department of Justice Report's findings as related to the Cleveland (Ohio) Division Police from 2010 through 2012 after numerous complaints were filed about the brutal and often unconstitutional policing of that department. The list of fifteen findings were developed and published by the DOJ before the November 22, 2014, killing of twelve year old Tamir Rice by a rookie officer in that same department.
Vanity Fair published an article in June of this year about police brutality and the long culture of racism behind much of it. The article is so good that I could have quoted the entire thing if allowed under fair use.
Racism isn’t the only thing behind the increasing slaughter of black men (and boys) by the police. There’s also a long-ingrained culture that glorifies law enforcement and now, thanks to the War on Terror, a domestic glut of Pentagon hardware.
Further in the same article, the author notes that technology has allowed everyone, not just the black community to be more aware of police brutality. And yet police brutality and the killing of young blacks, in particular, continues and even seems to be escalating.
But beneath the lip service, in the dirty rooting section of our limbic brains, we’ve been cultured to identify with the sentinels at the expense of those in the crosshairs, because that’s where power, authority, status, and prerogative suit up every day for duty. We may pity the victims, but pity is a watery emotion compared with the blood rush of a good chase and a vigorous takedown.
In an article in the American Conservative, of all places, there is an excellent listing of seven reasons behind police brutality. I have seen this article cross referenced at other sites in my research for this diary. The article goes into detail behind each of the seven causes listed, but for this diary, I am just going to list them with the idea that they may spark discussion or another diary in the future.
1. Many departments don’t provide adequate training in nonviolent solutions.
2. Standards for what constitutes brutality vary widely.
3. Consequences for misconduct are minimal.
4. Settlements are shifted to taxpayers.
5. Minorities are unfairly targeted.
6. Police are increasingly militarized.
7. Police themselves say misconduct is remarkably widespread.
In last week's open thread on this topic I posted in a comment a link to an article about policing in the Great Britain where nearly all police still do not carry guns. This article gives a much different perspective on the arming of police. Until relatively recently, all police in the British Isles were unarmed. In fact, a survey of the police officers themselves showed that the overwhelming majority (82%) were opposed to being armed despite the fact that most had at one time or another felt in danger. In recent years, despite dropping crime rates, there has been a push to arm some officers and it has sent warning flags up. This quote shows a far different philosophy of the relationship between the police and those they are serving.
This was underpinned by the principle of policing by consent - the notion that officers owe their primary duty to those they serve, rather than to the state.
Finally, if your stomach can take it, please take a few minutes to watch this video on police brutality.
Comments
Good Morning GG
Thanks for the open thread. My observations tell me we now live in a police state. The police are not viewed as a stabilizing influence on society, nor do they protect and serve. So many police departments devolved into shake down rackets centered around either property forfeiture / war on drugs or, ala FergesonMO, suppression of the community and a fining machine. Add to that kids back from deployment becoming police, steroids, people who watch too much television, poorly funded public services, a political class that sows division, ...
What a recipe for disaster! The police should be accountable to the public. Any police killing should be subject to independent review and a panel that includes community members/advocates/activists. Our courts and police have too much autonomy and too little accountability.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
I agree, Tim
And I do not believe that it is by accident either. White people are beginning to learn what most black people have known for decades. In the article about the British police, there has been a push to arm more police than previously. And shockingly, many citizens support it. The arming of police automatically places an impenetrable barrier between the police and the citizens they are supposedly serving.
With climate change looming and more and more fleecing of the people by the oligarchs, the need for stronger policing is being foist upon us to keep all of us in line. Minorities are the first of the sacrificial lambs, but none of us are safe anymore. The way Occupy was treated from the President on down proved that.
Thank you for your comment, Tim.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
My favorite pet name for the man is ...
!% Enforcement Corps
Some people will sell out cheap. An intelligent policemen would understand the difference between victimizing the community doing the oligarch's bidding and being neighborly while protecting and serving.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
Hypocrisy thy name is Obama
Ignore the source and focus on the message
Speaking of criminals, I hope they hang this guy.
The cover up will get them every time. Hope this time is no exception.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Great OT subject, GG.
I'm of the thought that our criminal justice system needs to be overhauled completely. It is open season on black people in many of our cities and towns. Do I feel safe around police? Hell no, aside from my friends on the force.
North Korea's hydrogen bomb? Not a good thing if they really do have the bomb. But it might be a hoax like last time.
Bernie Sanders was on Larry Willmore last night. Great showing.
Saudi Arabia...not a great move executing Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr.
Ben Carson is hilarious. I'm pretty sure he's really a cartoon character, like Judge Doom in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
I was at the GOS during my holiday for bits and pieces. Wow, it got really nasty over there. I mean, 2004 was pretty nasty, but whoa--last week got close.
Christmas and New Year's was its usual crazy. I traveled to NYC with my mum. Got airsick on the way (forgot to take my pills)...and I sat near the rear of the aircraft. If I book tickets, I always sit on the wing in an aisle seat because of motion sickness issues. In the back, it was super wobbly (due to lots of turbulence) and I was a mess. Puked my guts out right before landing. Good times.
My brother hosted us and he kind of gets carried away with Christmas. My brother and I grew up poor after our parents split up in the mid-80's. There were some years where we barely had a Christmas, so my brother tends to overcompensate for that. Hence, 24 hours of Christmas music, movies, and tons of family time with the sister-in-law and the nieces (both girls, one is 13 and the other is 8--about to be 9 in about a week). It was also the first time I was in their new apartment in Kips Bay (between Gramercy Park and Murray Hill). Much roomier than their old place in Spanish Harlem.
I once again had an argument with my brother about Clinton versus Sanders. He's in the tank for Clinton. I tried to sway him with Sanders articles and videos, but he's unwavering. We even had a detailed discussion about both candidates' policies (we kind of nerded out on that hard core). He's a pure Democratic loyalist and a capitalist. I'm the dirty f***ing hippie and staunch Leftist. My mum supports Clinton as well, but she can be swayed. She's one of the people who thinks Bernie can't win. I blame network and cable news. That's all she watches, so she's bought into the "inevitable" meme.
My oldest niece is a Clinton fan because of her father and because she thinks it would be really cool to have a woman president. I even explained simple policy stuff with her but she didn't change her mind. She was like, "Bernie is too angry! Why is he always mad?" Yeah, I can't deal with a now-rebellious 13 year old girl. My youngest niece doesn't care. She's still an eccentric goofball who likes dolls, cars, robots (we watched a lot of Robotech and Transformers when she lived with me for a while), and FailArmy videos on YouTube.
We went ice skating at Bryant Park, which was basically a swimming pool because of the unusually warm weather--it was in the mid-50s till December 30th or so. I did some last minute shopping at Macy's--bad move, but I'd rather buy stuff for the kids there than have to worry about extra luggage. Some lady got into a shouting match with a guy on the escalator. Not a fun sight. We also went to the Lincoln Center (yeah, the Koch brothers have their name all over the place there) to watch an English language opera version of The Barber of Seville. It was absolutely hilarious. I think the show we saw there last year was better (an awesome black comedy opera of Hansel & Gretel), but overall it was a blast.
The kids convinced me to stay a few more days (through New Year's), and I decided to take my brother and sis-in-law out on the town for a bit. They almost never have time to go out because of the kids and my brother's work schedule (works for a private equity firm a distance north of Yonkers and his commute is ridiculous). NYE was spent in two places. We started off at The Mercury Bar, off of 3rd and 33rd. We had been there before and thought it would be a proper place to ring in the new year. Instead, it was full of at-their-throats Michigan State and Alabama fans. Suffice to say, the Spartan fans did not like the way that game went. And I think the NCAA might want to rethink scheduling college football games on the biggest party night of the year. The scene in there was not to our liking, so we left around 10pm.
The next joint we hit was a place my brother didn't want to go to initially. Since he's upper middle class now, and works for a private equity firm, he doesn't get to rub his elbows with the working people of the world. What I'm really saying is that he's a bar snob (food and technology snob, too, for that matter). If it's a dive bar, neighborhood bar, or someplace where he can't get those rich hipster mixology tour class drinks...he won't walk in the door unless dragged in, kicking and screaming. Since I was the party captain and we were running out of time to find a bar that didn't have a private party going on, he didn't have much of a choice when I suggested Paddy Reilly's Music Bar--the local Irish pub on 2nd and 29th.
Paddy's was my kind of a place. They had a $10 dollar cover, but that was for the 80's cover band that was on, so I didn't mind. The bartender, a blonde Irishwoman with the most attractive brogue ever, had my attention. Spent most of time blatantly flirting with her (which she was amused by), while my sis-in-law tried to convince me that I should get her phone number and ask her out for coffee or something. I almost never do that with bartenders--just a rule of mine. We're conducting a business transaction (they pour, I drink, I give money for drinks and hefty tip if they're awesome or if we're friends--which they usually are), nothing more, nothing less--unless they hand me their phone number. Then the rules change. I was just happy to flirt.
We danced, met a lot of interesting people, did a lot of shots (bartender comped us five rounds of shots at one point after I taught her how to make a red-headed slut--Jaegermeister, cranberry juice, & peach schnapps--my favorite shot on the planet), and I even got on the stage and sang with the band for a bit (some Darius Rucker and Journey). We also sat and reminisced about the past year and the pondered on the year to come. My bar tab should have been well over $200 dollars, but she hooked us up and charged me half. I guess holidays and flirting works. I tipped her pretty good in the end. We did the whole countdown thing and all was merry. Still can't sing Auld Lang Syne to save my life.
In the end, the trip was a fun time, a great time to get away from Orlando, and a wonderful reminder of how much I miss having my brother around. Heh, I really have to move back to NYC. It's basically my kind of city. Have to find a new job first, and for a guy like me who fell into the defense industry with no degree (dropped out of college four times--bad timing)...that's going to be tough. I'm also glad to be back into my routine--hanging out with friends, playing poker, and not living in a hotel room for three weeks like I did in December before I went on holiday (Killeen, TX is not the best of places to be in). Yeah, I really need to move...LOL.
cybre! Good to see you again
was worried you'd forgotten us. (or maybe I haven't paid enough attention...anyway...)
"Nobody" likes the police. That's in quotes because, of course, those who are protected by the police like 'em but that's hardly anyone. Our white reaction when we see policemen, whether they're on foot or in patrol cars, is to say "oh no". If I hear a siren I say "I didn't do it, copper". That often turns out to be an ambulance but I figure it's good practice. The last time I chatted with a policeman I realized normal talk would get me killed if I were black. Let's see if I can tell this quickly: At red light, 3rd car in line. Turns green, first two cars go, light turns red as I enter the intersection. It was really a quick light! Cop pulls me over. Checks license, registration, comes back to me and tells me I can go. I say "boy that was a quick light", he gives me a glare and says (or words to this effect) "be glad you're not getting a ticket". It was cold! And I thought he must have thought I was giving him lip. Re-reading it I can see it doesn't come across as chilling as it was.
Oh well...I guess. At least he didn't handcuff me, throw me to the ground and start kicking me in broad daylight like I've seen happen in Los Angeles.
Great to see you, cybrestrike!
I knew you were working in Texas before Christmas and I think I read you had gone to NYC for the holidays. So welcome back home (cc99)!
I think you are such a talented writer. You have a knack of story telling that always makes me feel like I am right there with you during one of your outings!
When you wrote where your brother worked, it made perfect sense to me that he would support Hillary. I am having the same problem convincing my mother to vote for Bernie too. Even though she is still registered as a Republican, she has not voted Rethug in a long time. She would have to re-register since she lives in Florida which is a closed primary state as you know. At least she is reasonable. Most of my other relatives, especially via marriage are dyed in the wool Rethugs.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I am little old white lady, and I'm afraid of them.
I think it was GG that posted an article on how cops are mis-tasked. Why are they called for a heroin overdose? Domestic disputes, mentally ill? Cops should be restricted in the role to working with situations that are criminally violent. Reminds me of teachers. They need to be teachers, nurses, social workers, and PR specialists when dealing with screwy parents. Jack of all trades - master of none.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I didn't know there was a debate about
…the underlying cause of the New Police Brutality in the US.
I thought this was settled science; a known known. Maybe the studies are being suppressed by the media.
There are dozens of papers investigating and explaining the phenomenon. There's a general agreement about the cause of the epidemic of police violence against Americans. Below are excerpts from one summary (with an excellent bibliography and live links):
Coming Home to Roost: American Militarism, War Culture, and Police Brutality
Americans will just have to adapt. I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
There is no real debate
But the problem existed long before 9/11 and the War on Terror. Most people of color will tell you that. Police have historically been used to keep black people, in particular, in their place.
To me, the real problem is the basic attitude of and the culture in the police forces towards the citizens they supposedly serve. This is something that I had intended to go into in another diary. I am trying to keep these diaries relatively short while still going through an analysis.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
The culture, I agree!
This is, after all, a recent genocide nation, one that still executes people. Life is cheap. People are disposable. Killing foreigners doesn't count. The US is naturally going to reflect this moral disfunction in the public square.
And there is so much more, building out from that. Much to discuss there.
While the US hasn't bothered to count police executions in its entire history, until this year, I am under the impression that police violence against citizens has grown exponentially over the past 15 years. Were the police killing at the current rate before 2000?
I agree, POC have always been brutalized by police. There much more here, too.
Here's a kill list that I use:
It's easy to scan for race, age, sex. I was surprised that older white women are also shot to death not infrequently.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Post 9/11 Vets-to-Cops is a government program.
As an aside….
There were similar programs in place for recycling combat soldiers at some point during the Bush administration. This particular announcement is on the current White House website.
::
There other social factors exacerbating the rapid growth of citizen executions by police. Born-again racism has exploded in America. No question.
Also, the US is the only country in the world where citizens have a "right" to carry loaded hand guns in public places. (One sees that only in war zones elsewhere in the world.) Thus, police have a "right" to assume that any citizen they encounter is armed with a deadly weapon. This makes policing in the US unique from all other countries, where every contact with a citizens is a matter of life or death for the police officer. Police violence is the inevitable social cost of US-style gun rights. A society does not get one without the other in the 21st century..
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Military veterans make good police officers because . . .
(Bolded and reparagraphed for emphasis.)
Great, so taxpayers are underwriting this trend--including the recruitment and training of these folks.
I wonder, "Where do the Presidential candidates stand on this issue?"
Excellent, OT! Thanks, Nancy. My contribution to tonight's EB will be another stark YouTube video on this topic. I'll link to this OT from there, as background material.
Here's what a couple of media outlets had to say about the video:
Have a nice afternoon, Everyone!
Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress
"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."--Japanese Proverb
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
There are no statistics on how many cops are recent vets, and
of the instances of killings and abuse, how many of those cops are vets.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
You are right. There are no stats.
I was reading the research notes of an academic who tried to use FOIA requests to compile the stats. He met with either hostility or silence.
Thus, the CDC, the UN, and social scientists authoring papers on the subject of the accelerated rate police violence against citizens, rely on known demographics and current government policies enacted to link military service to civilian police service jobs. This post-enlistment transition push to civilian law enforcement is fairly common throughout the world. Police recruiting from the military was common in the US before the War on Terror.
But then, there was a startling jump in militarized police and the rate of indiscriminate killing of unarmed citizens by police. The killings grew at a rapid rate, across all races and ages. Police violence was becoming ubiquitous, nationwide.
What changed?
The current crop of civilian police are the first combat-hardened trained killers — as a significant demographic group — that have filled the front line of the nation's police forces. And they know how to use all the high-tech military equipment that the Federal government has granted to America's police departments.
It's like climate science. You work from the data you have and you find the patterns.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
There isn't a doubt in my mind that vets
aren't a major contributor. Add in all the military gear and training, and there's no moderation. Stop, drop, or die.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
can we test for steroids?
the combo of the sort of person who would volunteer knowing that he/she might have to kill plus the shellshock of actually being in combat plus steroids is the kind of thing that rational people in charge of things might want to investigate. It does seem, though, that there's no interest in doing so.
I've long demanded brain scans from all
…the presidential candidates and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
What could be more sensible? It's like examining their tax returns.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
So, did you serve in the military in a combat situation?
I find your judgment of Veterans ... well, my thoughts are free ... so I swallow the words I had in mind. Has there been a change in training of soldiers during the 1960ies to today? Have you seen the brutalization of police for all the recruits they might have gotten from the Vietnam Vet generation? They were certainly also "combat-hardened trained killers", right? Yet the police force after the Vietnam war, wasn't full of those combat-hardened trained killers and the police force hadn't changed with regards to the police's brutality back then, right?
Have you considered that, may be, right-wing conservative civilians are more inclined to enlist in the military and might be more racist and brutality prone than other enlistees? So, is it not the training the soldiers get, but the propaganda that manipulated the soldiers even before they enlist and then the propaganda after they have enlisted and served (constant commendation of their heroism etc) the real factor?
What has really changed? I believe it's the fact that right-wing war propaganda, overly open support for the "hero soldier" by the media and politicians in power, and an amazing upgrade of the kinds of weapons the police is allowed to use these days are more a factor for the brutalization. Police doesn't get condemned for their brutality and they are armed up to the teeth. Totally unacceptable.
In any case to judge all the Veterans as combat-hardened trained killers is insulting. I wished every American had to serve in the military for a while and there would be a draft, if Congress and the President decided to really go into a war. The problem is, Congress doesn't decide to go to war anymore, they just mess around everywhere in the world with their military power, as if there is no tomorrow. Blame Congress and the politicians and the folks in the DoD first and then blame the folks, who you consider being killer monsters.
https://www.euronews.com/live
That's not right.
The data is referring only to soldiers deployed in Afghanistan after 2002 and Iraq after 2003. The period of police killings of citizens began in 2005, and increased year over year for ten years.
Veterans who were not deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan — the vast majority of veterans — are not part of the studies and are not being judged, in any case.
What's more alarming about those soldier/veterans who were deployed in Afghanistan after 2002 and Iraq after 2003 is that they have been killing themselves at the rate of about 20 per day.
Their experiences harmed them. Their nation harmed them. They should receive restitution and support.
Pushing them into jobs as civilian police or prison guards is harmful to society. That's what the data says.
The only other large group of combat veterans returning to the US were those deployed in Vietnam 40 years ago. People didn't realize how deeply war damages the human brain. So many in that Vietnam group suffered terribly and lived at the edges of society. It would be another 20 years before the horror of PTSD was widely recognized as a crippling war injury. Americans resisted the idea that war took such a toll, and blamed the Vietnam vets for being weak or flawed.
Thus, when Americans, 40 years later, cheered for murder and mayhem in Afghanistan and Iraq, they didn't realize they would be creating another generation of veterans with profound psychological damage. That damage will reverberate through society for decades.
The US was utterly defeated in both wars of pointless human slaughter. American society has suffered. The people are bitter. The nation has lost its moral compass.
I hope that explains the concern and investigation, the effort to take these veterans out of harm's way, and the effort to prevent further harm to society via law enforcement.
When a population fears and mistrusts the police, they have a failed state.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
I understand your response, still I don't agree completely
first of all, as a disclosure, my son was deployed to Iraq on March 20, 2003. He was stationed in Jaber Air Force base in Kuweit in a civil engineer squadron and in that capacity had to support the invasion of Iraq. He saw the shock and awe events from the airplane, his first "greetings" of what it means to be "at war". My son enlisted in spring 2001, shortly after GW Bush became president. Neither he, nor me, would have been able to know, what kind of policies the Bush administration would engage in, nor could we have expected or imagined the Sept 11 terror attack on the world towers, which happened just a couple of weeks my son had finished his technical training. That being said, not every soldier who enlisted into the military was trained to become a combat-trained killing monster and I do not believe that the basic training he received in Texas was so unacceptable that it made a monster out of him. (Though it was pretty awful and probably mind manipulation as well).
In addition so many younger enlistees go to the military, because they have no job options or means to go to college. They are not motivated by an ideological mind manipulation by the media or the military. They are motivated by need, because in this wonderful capitalistic country, they can't even get an education for free as in any other European country. If Bernie Sanders can accomplish just one of this policy programs, ie really make college tuition free, then it would already make a dent for many and fewer people would feel the need to enlist in the military. It is all connected.
Of course the combat experiences leave mental health damages behind in many Veterans, but not for all, and not exclusively for the combat experiences. There are other factors which can contribute to PTSD of a Veteran. It's not as clear cut as it is represented. That has to be evaluated imo on a individual basis for each soldier and not generally assumed that all possible later inclination to deal with brutal responses in civilian life as police officers can be deducted from their former war experiences. That's what I am not in agreement with. The generalization. That too can harm the Veterans.
In any case, all these wars were deliberate, unnecessary and could have been disengaged from, if the population and the US politicians had wanted to. They didn't. That was very harmful, indeed.
Everything else you say I agree with.
https://www.euronews.com/live
it is
undisputed that basic training in all the American armed forces is deliberately designed to break down in all recruits the natural impulse in human beings to abjure killing. After WWII, the military brass was shocked to discover that only one in ten men ever reliably fired their weapons in combat, even when they themselves were under fire. The military then set about crafting a basic training that would destory in recruits the impulse against killing, and replace it with a desire to kill, and to kill whom they were told to kill. The military succeeded. It was quite pleased with the rates of fire from soldiers in the Vietnam conflict, and it is even more pleased with the even higher rates of today.
There is of course no "reverse basic training," to undo what has been done, when these people are mustered out. They are discharged with the natural impulse against killing still designedly depressed. Which is why so many of them end up killing themselves.
If that is undisputed and verified of taking place during
basic training, the whole military training of US soldiers (and the US military training of foreign military forces by US military) would be undisputably a crime within the war crime scenario, in my mind. So, why is the US then not be brought in front of the international criminal court for such programs?
This morning on Democracy NOW, there was a segment for the Fort Dix Five: Prosecuted by Christie, Muslim Brothers Get Rare Day in Court in FBI Entrapment Case/ Though this has nothing to do with basic training's mind breaking features, it touches some of the same issue. The mother of the Fort Dix Five says in the video starting at TC 55:30 that the FBI has engaged in "abuse by the brain". If psychologists and psychiatrists develop programs designed to break a human mind (similarly to what they have done for procedures in Guantanamo), be it for the FBI or the US military training, then those programs must be stopped and the people, who design those programs and those who apply them, brought to court and be held accountable for it.
I have heard about the dangers of the basic training in one piece I watched on German TV years ago and was pretty shocked, as I was shocked how much fear the training induced in my son. But I didn't think it has damaged his brain, so to speak.
This is a pretty loaded issue. I am not yet willing to believe in the "undisputedness", but may be I just don't know enough about it.
In any case the soldiers might have been betrayed and abused for the combat training they might have gone through and the combat experiences they had been forced to engage in. That's for sure. I don't disagree with that. But there are tons of services in the military that don't expose you to that kind of misuse. I simply don't like the generalizations made in this discussion.
Your last sentence horrifies me even more. If the result of that break-down of the resistance to kill someone, would then lead to the increased numbers of suicides (urge to kill themselves) among the Veterans, that would be even more a reason to immediately stop those programs.
I will try to inform myself more about the issue. So far I can see that the statistically significance of the data being probably skewed by not having accounted for other factors that could lead to brutality or suicidal tendencies among Veterans with acknowledged PTSD symptoms.
https://www.euronews.com/live
This is an understandingly loaded issue for you, mimi.
A "trigger" issue, perhaps. I'm sorry to raise it.
My tone is pretty dispassionate, because I push back all kinds of emotion to protect myself. That can make me sound like a sociopath, I think.
Anyway, I feel I must stress the criteria of the group being studied, because you keep calling the focus of the study a "generalization." The criteria for members of this group:
1. They were pushed through basic training, opened up to reprogramming.
2. They were deployed to one of the US killing zones sometime after 2003, either Afghanistan or Iraq.
3. They were under threat of attack or they witnessed or heard some of the carnage of the murder sprees and insurgency push-back against the US invaders.
4. They were discharged and steered by a DOJ nationwide grant program into police work sometime after 2005 — a "trigger" rich occupation.
That does not describe ALL veterans.
It describes a very specific group of high-risk, psychologically vulnerable veterans who are in an occupation that can trigger a panicked belief that they are being attacked. Their reactions may endanger others. The study is not about veterans. The study does not look at individuals. The study is an investigation into a current demographic anomaly within the nation's police forces; an anomaly that was completely missing for the previous 30 years, that might account for a rapidly growing spike of unnecessary civilian killings by police between 2005 and 2015.
Police forces are filled with veterans. They have been for many decades. "Veterans" are not the problem. Until now, none of the nation's veterans have ever been exposed to the pressure cooker of an insane and unhinged and criminal war of aggression. The PTSD-inducing events at Abu Grabe prison — in the very beginning — showed Americans what kind of culture had become, and foretold how the US military would create future terrorists to participate in America's Endless War.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Thanks Pluto, this is much more precise and a clear description,
the issue is not a trigger issue for me, though my son and me are angry to have gone through the military and war experience for reasons that are really more or less non-sensical and simple bad luck to us. My son voiced his opposition to his military superiors against the Iraq war invasion, while he was enlisted at the time he knew they would be deployed, which was over half a year before the invasion. He was not brainwashed. But he was under contract and couldn't refuse his deployment. Luckily he managed to be never redeployed to Iraq for a second time, nor to Afghanistan. I am smiling about how he managed that, sometimes he has smart instincts.
But he was also angered by the way many "liberal or progressive people in his environment in Hawaii" after he had left the military in 2005 and ran away to Hawaii, made the job search for those PTSD recognized Veterans worse, by judging them as "difficult to employ".
That's where my criticism comes in. It's so easy to blame the soldiers for having been "dumb" enough to volunteer for the military and I think it's thoughtless. So, that's all there is to it with regards to trigger something in my thinking.
I understand the area of the study now a bit better. No offense from my side, just not enough knowledge. It's a subject I don't want to get even more intimately involved with. I believe asshole's brutality (including sexual brutality) everywhere has increased, not only in the US. The police force is a special issue and I believe also a particular US problem. During my time I worked with German TV's video archives I have seen a lot of material from Guantanamo, some from basic training and some from Abu Ghraib. All the footage and interviews I saw support the observation that the brutality and sexual sadistic behavior between those who have the weapon's power and those who are imprisoned or belong to declared "enemy" contingent, that needs to be killed, has increased. I do not deny it, never have and watched it over the years. I understand that the police officer career field is a "trigger" rich environment and not suitable for people who have gone through the deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not every Veteran wants to be a police officer or security guard or involved with being a spy or informant. So much for that. I hope that for example Sanders would be able to introduce a huge government job program for Veterans that is outside the career field of police and security services.
So, no problem. I just can see for myself and hopefully be able to judge what I see. When I can't, at least I try to ask and find out. And I value your comments and information a lot. I wished I would be as able as you and many others here are with regards to finding, reading and understanding source material.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Mimi. There are always exceptions.
Twins in the same family will grow up to be different. Generalizations are just that. military background and training is certainly not the only factor, if it is a factor at all. Without statistics, who knows. We have a saying about government. If it makes sense, it must be wrong.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
lol, what a saying ... you make me laugh /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
Totally agree that
Heard a libertarian economist, Tyler Cowan, on NPR a couple years ago. He spoke of what he expects that Americans will come to experience (economically) in the next couple of decades.
He predicts that the vast majority of Americans will live a 'bohemian' existence, with approximately 20 percent of Americans forming an upper class of millionaires and billionaires.
From all that I've seen of recent policy prescriptions from the neoliberal Dem and Repub Party Establishment Presidential contenders, I think he may be right. I say that because, for the most part, the policies appear to be designed to be just enough to keep folks out of the streets (in protest)--nothing more.
And, as a fail-safe, they've militarized our law enforcement agencies; IOW, corporatist politicians seem to always be able to think and stay one step ahead of the rest of us.
Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress
"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I think I need to apologize, re-read this comment, Pluto,
and it says everything outright here, what I neglected to read carefully before.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Britain and Italy prepare to reinvade Libya
We'll get it right this time
President Erdogan's interesting choice of words
link
Hi all, gg and bluesters and 99percenters, a friendly
wave from me for that important issue in your OT. I unfortunately have not the stomach to watch the video and don't want to think about the issue more than I absolutely have to.
It is all scary and many people are more afraid of the police than of those, who are supposedly so dangerous in our neighborhoods.
Will pass by this evening to read the EB. Just to say hallo and read, talking is not my favorite thingy anymore.
Have all a good day.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Good afternoon GG, 99ers~
Police brutality, that's a sickness that's infected everywhere. I have stated what a pissant podunk Hellpeckersville( don't look for it on a map, that's just what I call it) is. Just 30 or so miles NW of Philly, and for years and years the cops were part of the community, in my town and all the little pissant backwaters surrounding. Over the past 20 years or so that has changed drastically and anybody who wanted to think differently got a rude awakening about four year ago when three cops who knew the man they were about to murder in the street was mentally ill, unarmed and off his meds. They didn't wing him, they didn't try to talk him down, they just shot him dead, and not a one lost a days pay over it. They all knew him, knew who he was, he'd done it before, been taken in before, for harassing people in town or in a store, what have you. I guess they were tired of being called out for such a tiresome chore. They said this unarmed man came towards the three of the armed officers in a threatening manner--case closed.
I thought perhaps you might like to see some of the prints I pull before I cut them up. Warm colors on plain paper. Tonight I'll print on sheet music.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
I love your art, triv! (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Hey y'all 99ers!
GG, thx for covering this topic. Good to see that folks at C99 are staying on top of this topic.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
PS-Story from Popular Resistance:
Tamir Rice’s Mother Calls Out ‘Corrupt’ Criminal Justice System
https://www.popularresistance.org/tamir-rices-mother-calls-out-corrupt-c...
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
The Kurds can lose from winning
good article
The article came from Washington Institute for Near East Policy?
Though WINEP likes to pass itself off as a reputable neutral think tank, it was founded as an offshoot of the pro-Israel lobbying organization AIPAC — caveat lector.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Talk:Washington_Institute_for_Near_...
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2012/10/02/wineps-clawson-advocates-u-...