Don't ignore Bannon. He wants a modern day Crusade in the Middle-East.

Ishaan Tharoor has a piece in WaPo today: ISIS wants to fight a holy war. So do some Trump supporters.

Steve Bannon, the alt-right ideologue who is poised to play a key role in Trump's White House, has articulated a more coherent vision. In a 2014 event with Catholic conservatives hosted at the Vatican, Bannon declared that the West was in “the beginning stages of a global war against Islamic fascism” and framed the contest in religious terms — never mind that Muslims themselves are suffering the most from and laboring the hardest against extremist groups like the Islamic State.

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x Twitter — November 9, 2016

Bannon placed the current fight in a long history of Christian vs. Muslim conflict and praised the toughness of earlier European kingdoms. (Of course, he did not acknowledge the equally long history of Christian and Muslim cooperation.)

“If you look back at the long history of the Judeo-Christian West struggle against Islam, I believe that our forefathers kept their stance, and I think they did the right thing,” he said and then invoked two famous medieval battles in which largely Christian forces in Europe repulsed Muslim armies. “I think they kept it out of the world, whether it was at Vienna, or Tours, or other places … It bequeathed to us the great institution that is the church of the West.”

Now, I’m the last person to get outraged over a tweet or a t-shirt. People say vile things, that is the nature of our world and the humans on it. So I wouldn’t advise spending the next four years discussing the next ignorant or hateful thing Trump or his cabinet tweeted. In fact, the constant outrage cycle created and sustained during the campaign distracted us from focusing on bread and butter issues for key members of our coalition. It is part of the reason we are where we are.

I put these tweets here to clarify the context in which we should evaluate Trump’s comments on our wars in the Middle-East:

“I mean one of the problems we have or one of the reasons we're so ineffective, you know, they're trying to, they're using them as shields. It's a horrible thing,"

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x Twitter — November 4, 2016

"But we're fighting a very politically correct war. And the other thing is with the terrorists, you have to take out their families," Trump said.

"When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. But they say they don't care about their lives. You have to take out their families."

The Hill

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x Twitter — November 5, 2016

Now, unfortunately, we are already well along this road. We don’t exactly proclaim we will blow up a target’s house with his family inside as some of our allies do. But we have bombed homes and performed “double-tap” strikes killing first-responders and many more besides. We have also killed a 16 year old US citizen, who Robert Gibbs said “should have had a far more responsible father”.

Democrats have been largely silent about the impact of signature strikes and drone missions. That’s saying nothing about a widespread surveillance state that nets both US and international communication. Here is where our silence has led us. These deadly and dreadful capabilities are about to be placed gently into Trump’s hands on January 20. Who here can tell me they are confident these weapons will be used in the service of honorable ends by a Trump administration?

Imagine this scenario. A big terror attack leads to much of the country reflexively “rallying around the president”, just as we did in 2001 with Bush. That then leads to a “mandate” for a large-scale war in the Middle-East, directed by people who seem to be itching for a modern-day crusade.

The Crusades were a series of religious wars and that is partly what Bannon likes about them. But they have been invoked for ethnic conflict as well. Not for nothing is the KKK newspaper called The Crusader.

Even without acting on it, such rhetoric is bound to have profound impacts on how our widespread military actions are seen across the world. Muslim populations across Asia and Africa will undoubtedly be concerned. Such rhetoric feeds directly into the propaganda of various extremists fighting in wars across the Middle-East, Asia and Africa. But the impact will not be limited to these conflicts. How will the governments of the rest of Asia and Africa react to this. After all, they have directly experienced western colonialism fed by theories positing the superiority of Christianity. What of countries that have largely Catholic populations? How exactly will the world regard the fact of American hegemony when senior government officials openly espouse such rhetoric? What about when they enact policies in keeping with the rhetoric?

So no, as much as I would like it, we cannot ignore Bannon.

BTW, There are lot more of these tweets, if you stomach can handle them.

— @subirgrewal

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

"We" ignored Obama for 8 years, and Bush for 8 years before that. We had the chance to at least do a little bit about it, but that was tossed aside to make room for praise of "The Inevitable One."

You know, if "Empress Inevitable" had actually turned out to be "inevitable," "we" would likely still be ignoring it for yet another 4 years minimum. So I'm actually thrilled that Trump dethroned the empress before she was even crowned, because now "we" are finally willing to pay attention, even though "we" are blaming the horrendous nature of the nation on a guy who isn't even in power yet.

I just wonder how long it is before "we" realize what the rest of us have been griping about for at least the past 4-8 years: that it doesn't matter who's in power, both sides are part of the same ugly face.

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Centaurea's picture

I'm wondering when the rest of the world is going to say "enough is enough" and go on about their business without us. Address climate change without us, create monetary and financial systems that have nothing to do with the US dollar or US markets, and generally stop relying on the US for anything.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

This is so over the top it's almost a parody of itself.

Kinda hard to see how Trump's Middle East FP can be any worse than what we're doing right now. Obama has been droning families of terrorists for EIGHT YEARS, a lot of them American citizens. He's directly responsible for he deaths of THOUSANDs of civilians in drone strikes, many of whom weren't even related to the people we were allegedly trying to take out.

And let's not even talk about Hilary's role in destroying families in the Middle East, starting with the deaths of half a million Iraqi children during Bill's Presidency. Where was your great concern then?

Not that any of this killing is acceptable, mind you, but Trump hasn't killed anybody yet. And when he does I'll be the first to say it's wrong. But your ridiculous fantasies of the scary future under Trump completely ignore the horrific reality of the Clinton/Bush/Obama past and present.

And besides, assuming that two year old quote is even contextually accurate, what role does Bannon play in formulating Trump's Foreign Policy anyway?

But keep titling at those windmills subir. These hysterical, specious, bombastic, poorly sourced polemics only discredit you and the war mongering Dems you crusade for even more than they already are.

And I mean hysterical in all senses of the term.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

"So you're saying he's going to continue the Obama policy in the Middle East?"

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

kharma's picture

Obama has been droning families of terrorists for EIGHT YEARS

He was a Democrat so it didn't matter. Now we must stop the Republicans because they want to do evil shit too.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

But I guess I didn't say "Democrats are evil", so I'm a hysterical sell-out.

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@subirgrewal

edg's picture

The problem with the wet nappie crowd is that they were happy with Obama's lies ("we don't kill civilians" "the US doesn't target families" "that hospital was collateral damage") but they are now unhappy with people that may or may not do the same damn things Obama did but tell the truth about doing them.

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Roy Blakeley's picture

have bought in to the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" fallacy. Obama's policy in the middle east has been unfathomably stupid as well as criminal. Clinton's policy would have been even worse. That does not mean that Trumps policies will be good, however. Trump has said a few encouraging things. He is, at least, not demonizing Russia and aiding the local Al Qaeda affiliate. Bannon is bad news, however. Beyond bad. On top of that, Trump's policies often change twice from the beginning of a sentence to the end so who knows what he will do. He probably does not know what he will do. The crusade bit is a stretch, but let's take the Bannon appointment for what it is--a real bad sign.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

The crusade bit is a stretch, but let's take the Bannon appointment for what it is--a real bad sign.

I don't frequent Brietbart so I'm not very aware of the guy, but I'm truly less than enlightened about him by subir's stream of twitter consciousness rant.

There is such a thing as overplaying a hand. And when someone is trying to depict some alt-right blogger as the next Pope Urban II, I tend to get a bit skeptical.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

Or are you just crossposting something from TOP?

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
lunachickie's picture

That frog is gross propaganda of the most vile sort. Consider my eyes glazed over at your continued tediousness.

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Big Al's picture

probably ain't going to last long in that environment. Regardless of Bannon it's clear Trump and his team are going to continue and expand the FAKE war OF terror against radical Islam. The thing about Bannon and his statements are they really aren't any different than what we heard when Bush was Prez. Remember his infamous statement, "this Crusade, it's going to last awhile". Many experts and high level players, military and non-military, predicated the war OF terror would last decades and that we were only at the beginning. So what Bannon is saying is just more of the same bullshit.

Here's an interesting quote about Bannon:

"Bernie Marcus, the co-founder of Home Depot and a generous Jewish philanthropist, just issued a statement saying this:

“These attacks are nothing more than an attempt to undermine the incoming Trump administration. I have known Steve to be a passionate Zionist and supporter of Israel who felt so strongly about this that he opened a Breitbart office in Israel to ensure that the true pro-Israel story would get out. What is being done to Steve Bannon is a shonda [scandal].”

Of course the Zionists, i.e., the Neocons, are the ones who wanted this war OF terror after their "new Pearl Harbor" moment on 9/11 so they could implement the New American Century and the quest for Greater Israel. So Bannon appears to know the war OF terror disguised as a war against radical Islam is a bullshit excuse for American and Israeli hegemony, just like they all do.

[video:https://youtu.be/7TRVcnX8Vsw]

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WindDancer13's picture

is before I click on them. It would save me a lot of time that I could spend on something important.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

How could Bannon make it any worse. Sounds like he just wants to continue Obama and Bush's policies. With "a little ugly on the side".

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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho

lotlizard's picture

and progressive Democrats want to make him head of the DNC. So what’s your point?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/11/skeletons-keith-ellisons-display-...

Congressman Keith Ellison, candidate of progressive Democrats and many regressive Democrats for chair of the Democratic National Committee eagerly urged the illegal and disastrous violent overthrow of the government of Libya in 2011, which he celebrated as a success despite what it meant for the rule of law, despite all the death and suffering, despite the predictable instability and weapons proliferation to follow.

Ellison moved on to pushing, and using his perch as co-chair of the Progressive Caucus to push, for a similar war on Syria. For years now he has advocated for the illegal and murderous creation of no fly zones and “safe zones” — what Hillary Clinton admitted only to Goldman Sachs would require that you “kill a lot of Syrians.” Ellison was an early backer of bombing Syria in 2013. He met with peace activists but rejected their appeal.

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"So I wouldn’t advise spending the next four years discussing the next ignorant or hateful thing Trump or his cabinet tweeted."
Back at ya?

Peace

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of serious issues, apparently.

Listen, Subir, I know you mean well, but seriously listen: what you have written here in warning about a "crusade" in the Middle East is something many of us have been pointing out, screaming about, or raising hell about in one venue or another since GWB (or earlier, for those of us who are older).

Raising these points and including a side of "Trump! Turmp's picks!" just comes off as a little tone-deaf around here, not to mention terribly partisan and, as a result, more than a little like you're pushing an anti-Trump narrative instead of an raising awareness around an issue.

Edit: And for the record one of my primary objections to the Hillary campaign was her all-but-promised crusade in Syria and continuation of the crusade in the ME. Our foreign policy, which is really a nationalist imperial military policy, is terrible on many levels: the most obvious is the pain and death it brings directly to people in the ME, but it has ripple effects domestically because it is literally trillions in resources that could be spent on our own citizens' needs instead of used for murder and economic gain abroad. Not that I think Bernie was much better on this front, but he sure as hell wasn't chomping at the bit to shoot tension with Russia through the roof.

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Of course Bannon cannot be ignored. Neither can Ryan, Trump,and omg, Betty DeVos for Ed Sec? Trump is a bomb. OTH, Schumer is in charge of the Dem Party and preparing a massive corporate tax cut - the bribe Hillary was going to pay, again, to corps to repatriate their blood profits from their offshore accounts. Keith Ellison is supporting Hillary's no-fly zone.

I'm old, tired, and about ready to give up. Both parties are so hopelessly corrupt and out of touch with my values. My whole life is in Michigan, but I am thinking seriously about my dual citizenship and moving to the EU. America and Americans are beyond hope.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

ggersh's picture

more at that event if she's linking the same one.

He's also talked against WS

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/this-is-how-steve-bannon-sees-the-e...

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Thanks, reading the transcript is an adventure. Surprising.

[...] If you look at what’s happening in ISIS, which is the Islamic State of Syria and the Levant, that is now currently forming the caliphate that is having a military drive on Baghdad, if you look at the sophistication of which they’ve taken the tools of capitalism. If you look at what they’ve done with Twitter and Facebook and modern ways to fundraise, and to use crowdsourcing to fund, besides all the access to weapons, over the last couple days they have had a radical program of taking kids and trying to turn them into bombers. They have driven 50,000 Christians out of a town near the Kurdish border. We have video that we’re putting up later today on Breitbart where they’ve took 50 hostages and thrown them off a cliff in Iraq.

That war is expanding and it’s metastasizing to sub-Saharan Africa. We have Boko Haram and other groups that will eventually partner with ISIS in this global war, and it is, unfortunately, something that we’re going to have to face, and we’re going to have to face very quickly.

So I think the discussion of, should we put a cap on wealth creation and distribution? It’s something that should be at the heart of every Christian that is a capitalist — “What is the purpose of whatever I’m doing with this wealth? What is the purpose of what I’m doing with the ability that God has given us, that divine providence has given us to actually be a creator of jobs and a creator of wealth?" [...]

What does separation of church and state mean again? Never mind. Bring on the holy wars, good luck to all.

Peace

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ggersh's picture

after 9/11 it all changed to the forefront instead of behind the scene shit.
Dubya on steroids.

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Thank you
but the terror has not stopped, the blowback is more and better.

Peace

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ggersh's picture

is all he cared about.

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

featheredsprite's picture

Bannon is an anti-Semite [among other things] who actively supports the idea of an Israeli empire.

Is that about right?

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.