Recommend action so Clinton lies are destroyed
Submitted by DonMidwest on Tue, 11/15/2016 - 7:08am
The inspiration for this includes the two videos from TYT
y We Still Have to Fight Hillary Supporters
Clinton Machine Floats Chelsea For Congress
And I am asking a big favor.
In the short run we have to fight the attempt of the Clintons to keep the power over the democratic party.
And a place to fight is in the tiger's den, the orange space, DK/TOP
I posted a diary this morning along this line.
Others should post diaries and make comment to tamp down the DNC zealots
Is Elizabeth Warren THE leader of a different democratic party? Along with Keith Ellison?
Comments
The way to do it is to go elsewhere
Let DKos die. Let it be a lesson. Bring more folks here. Join wayofthebern on Reddit. Find other outlets. DKos deserves to fail as much as the Clintons they've bought into...make them irrelevant but refusing to contribute to their lockstepping choir.
Exactly. Sites Like Dkos Live Or Die Based On
web traffic. Why give him the eyeballs? May Kos reap what he has sewn.
Besides, my stress levels are fine now after leaving that shithole.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
^^
driving up orangewater's traffic and giving him your writing might not be the best way to go about this.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Move On
I have a hard time understanding the obsessive codependent fascination with GOS; the owner has unequivocally shown his true colors and even were he to want to make amends, only fools would be taken in by them. It's past time to move on and let that moribund virtual fiefdom flow into the bit bucket where it belongs.
Yes and no
It's unpleasant there, no doubt, but it's also not personal. No one is saying that it's a pleasant community in which to spend your time, but the point is to keep the Clinton Machine out of power within the Democratic party.
There is a compelling case for pushing over there, as they still get the eyeballs. It puts Markos in an odd position, does he ban everybody that pushes back, leaving him with an empty cadre of talent? The brain-drain was real, and has already cost him, and it will hurt him further if he breaks his own rules and keeps imposing a CT-based tyranny, wherein free exchange isn't allowed.
If he cracks down, he demolishes his own brand. Now is definitely the time to push. He may see reason, he's not THAT stupid.
The point is to create a situation in which either GOS goes back to being what it was, or it continues its deranged Reign of Terror until it's guillotined everybody that could attract eyeballs, at which point it dries up and dies.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Just stop it. What is wrong with everybody?
My god. It's like arguing with an abused spouse that keeps insisting, "But he's changed." Give it the fuck up already. You don't get to relive the nightmare but with a better outcome if you just keep doing it over again. This time it will be different! Yeah. No.
You know that arguing will just drive traffic because conflict attracts eyeballs. So you're proposing to actually help the site succeed.
You want to know how toxic that place is? You know all those stories about middle aged men whose personalities changed after watching too much Fox News? My neighbor started reading Daily Kos a couple of months ago and the same thing happened to her. She's super sweet and a great neighbor. Now she literally screams at people in the street. She's not friendly to anyone who doesn't scream about Trump in full SJW rampage mode. She is visibly less engaged and happy.
Over a fucking website.
So knock yourself out. Keep the sewer running.
If you want traffic go to Reddit. Not that pile of rotting leftovers from the Kerry campaign.
^^^
^
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
You are at least 50%
and maybe 100% of the solution I propose. I wouldn't advocate anyone dipping a toe into that cesspool if it troubled them. My idea is for completely dispassionate individuals to do what they can to talk them down from the ledge. If that fails, so be it.
The point is that we are near a check-mate move, whether they know it or not. The DNC is dead, utterly and completely. The other side will make hay of them and everything they ever did or said, ad infinitum. They are a laughing-stock, and deservedly so, and the revelations about them will keep coming, and will live on forever. Who doesn't understand that the Wikileaks e-mails will be a case-study for all eternity, and that the various players are all toxic cartoon villains?
Once this sinks in, their old way of life is gone.
There will always be a DNC, but their choice now is whether or not to rebuild it into a relevant party, or to hang on to this sinking Titanic. The dead-enders are still there, but they will disappear soon enough. Then it's up to us to figure out what comes next.
It's a new world folks, and secret deals, media manipulation, and cynical smears won't work anymore. The adults in the room will take over.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
One thing that nobody realizes yet
is that there is no privacy. Privacy died with mass-surveillance, and there will always be leakers. Oh, I know that the apparatchiks will crack down on leaks, and enforce all kinds of crazy rules, and that people will use type-writers instead of e-mails, but know this:
We will get you anyway, in ways you never dreamed of.
The best defense is to deal with public and private parties in above board and honest ways. If you do that, we've got nothing.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
To reiterate, for those watching this site
DDSS!
Don't do stupid shit!
It causes others to eat your lunch.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Why should anyone care 'what it becomes'. No one would be
'here' if they were wanted over 'there'. Let them wallow in the ignorance and stupidity. Or do you like being treated like something they scraped off the bottom of their shoe?
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Let me see if I get this straight...
You mean a covert Left-Gatekeeper site, meant to discourage effective action by the Left, run by a suspected CIA "asset", and recipient of all kinds of dirty political money? Is that the point?
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Yup. Time to dust off the
Lazarus Long quote again: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time, and annoys the pig...".
I would do both
Cultivate other sources, but work towards reform there too, the goals aren't mutually exclusive. There is a compelling case for the idea that reform is preferable to boycott.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I live about 20 minutes from Old House Lane...
...in Chappaqua, where "Ma and Pa Klinton" live, with an extra house now forming the family compound at the end of the cul de sac. (From a popular/current NYC-area cable co. commercial: "Cul de sacs are dead ends for rich people.") While it's in a separate congressional district (for now, anyhow, at least until 2020 reapportionment kicks in), NY-17, and while I live in NY-18, the fact is I spent many years living in NY-17, and it won't be a cakewalk for Chelsea, if she runs, because the GOP is too invested in it, since it's the only CD that's entirely in Westchester, and it comprises the lion's share of one of the "swingiest" counties in NY.
We should have a fix on much of what we need to know--short term at least--based upon what happens to Keith Ellison in the DNC race.
"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." --Hunter S. Thompson
I live in the district and I called Nita Lowey's office
yesterday to encourage her to never step aside to let Chelsea run no matter what the Clinton's offered her. Nita ran unopposed this cycle so it makes null sense to run Chelsea.
We have a county executive in Westchester named Rob Astorino and he is popular. He is anti common core and is very popular among the "Moms". He would run and beat Chelsea handily.
I will call Schumer today and ask him to step aside regarding the leadership role also.
780 Third Avenue, Suite 2301
New York, NY 10017
Phone: (212) 486-4430
Fax: (202) 228-2838
Nita Lowey-
222 Mamaroneck Ave., #312
White Plains, NY 10605
Phone: (914) 428-1707
Fax: (914) 328-1505
TDD: (212) 486-7803
Wait, Rob Astorino of the
Wait, Rob Astorino of the 2014 NY gubernatorial election? The guy I had to hold my nose and vote for Cuomo against?
Yo bobswern: that's a ritzy area.
Very familiar with it as my father's family (native NYers
grew up on LI. They were further west though, places like Bay Shore, Baldwin, etc. Rec'd!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
No Ellison. Tulsi Gabbard is a 'clean' Democrat
Clean, as in uncontaminated by the Clintons. No Warren either.
***
SNIPPET FROM POLITICO.COM
Soros bands with donors to resist Trump, 'take back power'
Major liberal funders huddle behind closed doors with Pelosi, Warren, Ellison, and union bosses to lick wounds, retrench.
George Soros and other rich liberals who spent tens of millions of dollars trying to elect Hillary Clinton are gathering in Washington for a three-day, closed door meeting to retool the big-money left to fight back against Donald Trump.
The conference, which kicked off Sunday night at Washington’s pricey Mandarin Oriental hotel, is sponsored by the influential Democracy Alliance donor club, and will include appearances by leaders of most leading unions and liberal groups, as well as darlings of the left such as House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Congressional Progressive Caucus co-chairman Keith Ellison, according to an agenda and other documents obtained by POLITICO.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/democrats-soros-trump-231313
END OF SNIPPET FROM POLITICO.COM
***
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
sounds like an opportunity
for dems like soros, not beholden to the clintons, and who remember and identify with the little guy who was their antecedent,
to take over the reins, and then take over the msm, etc., to manage the repub congress/prez
if something like this isn't done, we may be seeing the start of the american descent into the madness of the owners' voters
sounds like an opportunity
for dems like soros, not beholden to the clintons, and who remember and identify with the little guy who was their antecedent,
to take over the reins, and then take over the msm, etc., to manage the repub congress/prez
if something like this isn't done, we may be seeing the start of the american descent into the madness of the owners' voters
sounds like an opportunity
for dems like soros, not beholden to the clintons, and who remember and identify with the little guy who was their antecedent,
to take over the reins, and then take over the msm, etc., to manage the repub congress/prez
if something like this isn't done, we may be seeing the start of the american descent into the madness of the owners' voters
Soros, eh?
Go to this site: http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/ and scroll down to #42, and then tell me about Soros. Not beholden to the Clintons? Perhaps the other way around? -And implicated in election rigging, here and abroad. The guy funds many establishment "Left" actions and groups, but helped create the election rigging systems that helped rob Bernie, and gave us Trump.
Part of Soros' wealth came from a brutal dumping of English Pounds, that destroyed many "little guys". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday So if he remembers his "antecedents", he has a strange way of reminiscing, and "identifying".
In fact, peruse the whole site at the first link above, and find examples of the MSM that has already been taken over by the Clinton camp. We need an independent, functional, free media (free as in freedom, not free as in free beer), and NOT more of the same captured, sycophantic, grovelling, lying-assed, propagandistic toadies that currently infest the commons, claiming to bring us "news".
Seriously, The MSM serves the power elite, and that would include the Obamas, the Clintons, The Bushes, and yes, you guessed it, The Trumps. One big, neoliberal, happy royal family, and the MSM as their court stenographers. The public face of the oligarchy. And the oligarchy itself includes people like Soros. Any politician having meetings with him, probably is already receiving their marching orders.
We need a NEW party, where the marching orders come from The People. Trying to salvage the Dems would be like trying to turn a beached oil tanker into a Mars lander.
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Remember a couple of things about Nita...
...she's getting up there in the age department (well into her 70s), and she's the one who stepped aside for Hillary to run for Senate in 2000. (Lowey was already setting up her campaign committee for the Senate race when Hillary announced.)
"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." --Hunter S. Thompson
She also...
bought (through her daughter) a dilapidated brownstone for WAY over market rate from the Brooklyn election commissioner who purged over 100,000 Bernie voters off the rolls during the primary.
So there's that.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Behind a pay wall. Got any hints for those who don't subscribe
what that articles says?
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Try this instead...
Warning: DKos link
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Never mind.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I was a pissed off as anybody about the purge in Brooklyn
but you seem to be conflating the 2 events and the timing doesn't jive. The brownstone was purchased before Bernie announced his run.
Nita did begrudgingly step aside to allow Hillary to run for the Senate in 2000 so we do have her to blame for that.
I can forgive her though if she keeps Chelsea from being a congresswoman.
Don't be naive.
Whether Bernie or somebody else ran is not the point.
The point is she bought the Elections Board member at just about the time Hillary was planning her run.
It's not a coincidence.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I'm willing to believe that Rudiano was bought but you are going
to have to walk me through the sting and connect the dots.
Nita's daughter purchase the brownstone for 6.6 million when it was worth maybe 2 million. So she overpay by 4.6 million in return for Rudiano to purge 100,000+ voters from the voter roles in Brooklyn?
Hillary won New York 4,143,874 to 2,640,570.
I know something shady went down with the voter purge and I'm still trying to figure it out but this doesn't jive for me.
Makes no sense to purge voters from a Hillary stronghold unless you knew for certain that Bernie was running which they did not.
I hate to link to TOP so I will copy and paste a comment I made back in early May-
They did know.
The whole Dem voter reg system was a Clinton sponsored DNC operation under the Orwellian title of Voter Expansion Project and was designed to use meta data to target voters with specific political leanings:
Wikileaks is full of info about how they were using metadata to target likely voters of various candidates.
Don't forget also all the shenanigans when the DNC withheld Bernie's voter data from him. It's all part of the same corrupt voter targeting system.
Finally, the Seth Rich murder is especially suspicious because he was the guy in charge of tracking the registration data.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Here's Bill promoting it.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Publish that shit!
Information is the new Lysol! Seriously!
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
That other place is an echo chamber that won't listen to reason
But there are some folks there that likely just lurk and may be persuaded. I find it tedious to be there and would consider it work to engage...but that work may be necessary.
If the DNC chooses HoHo as the leader, then I am not going to bother with that party. If they go with Ellison, then I may pull up my cyber boot straps and try to change some minds and hearts in the orange dungeon.
Let DKos die
Seriously - please, please just let it die. Haven't we seen how incompetent, deluded the majority of people posting there are, and how useless their rants have become.
Chelsea has no talent, no ability for public speaking ( ask the folks at NBC) and certainly enough baggage to weigh down any attempt at overcoming her heritage. Ask Jeb! about that
And if Chelsea WAS ever put
And if Chelsea WAS ever put forward as the Dem candidate, you can bet that there would be a very strong counter candidate from the Republican side.
I think Republicans want to end the Clintons in politics even more than do the Progressives!
What's that place's ranking as an influence nowadays? Somewhere
between Non-existant and Bwahahaha would be my guess.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Chelsea Clinton
is the Paris Hilton of the political scene. She'd be an inconsequential unknown without mommy and daddy's name. Even given bit acting roles (newscaster) that she failed miserably at. I expect a selfie-porn tape to surface any day.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Ewww!
Please, gods, no!
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it."
Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
Don Midwest- you saw what kind of reception you got
over there (I praise 'tool' for his steadfastedness, if that is the correct word. He is a good guy, amazed he still stands up there. Stubborness can be a virtue, but then ... there is the thing to do the same over and over again and expect a different outcome ... )
I think that it's not a good idea to post over there in the hope to "change" dailykos, at least not for the next few months. Unless the ownership changes, I would not frequent that establissement anymore.
All the best to you and your family.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Stop going to DKos
The strongest thing to do is to not go to that website anymore. It has no more value, and after the election has become as a joke as Myspace is today.
I've been calling it MyDK
since March. Hearkens to MyDD as well as Myspace, and is fairly descriptive as such things go...
That's funny.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
I'm not into abuse.
That's all one gets over there. It's not personal - it's bullying. No thanks.
On the Chelsea note - what is it that the Clintons don't get about dynasties? They need to STFU and go away.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
If anyone needed any further proof of how tone-deaf they are
This idea of running Chelsea is it.
SMDH.
EXACTLY! eom
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
no point in going to the city dump to talk to the rats
those people are hooked (as in fish caught on a hook) into the DNC narrative. They must go just as the DNC must go. Can you convince the DNC to change? No, you can't. They got into this mess because of who they are and how they think. Besides, they like it this way. They'd rather be the opposition. Having control of government means doing something, which they want to avoid. Being the opposition means they can "fight" and ask for money a little less shamelessly.
Well, anyway, the pigeons at dKos are mentally unable to think properly. They might superficially look like they're on our side at times, like when there's a Republican President, but it's like a Halloween costume.
Soon the Clinton machine will
Soon the Clinton machine will stop the payroll for the $hrills. Once they have to post for free, they won't anymore. And voila! The site traffic will really drop!
Not going to join the TOP Clinton campaign shills, no how!
Heck, I got just got called a dick and a three day suspension for posting a picture of Clinton kissing Kissinger at the Alfred Smith dinner.
From the Light House.
Apparently reality isn't one of their strongest traits over
there. Getting a hide for posting a pic of the Clinton creature smooching Kissinger is Hill-ary-ous. And mentally ill. I would think if there were so sure of themselves, they'd defend that picture.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Who says you can't fight the truth?
They're trying to fight it
but Truth is catching up fast, with a baseball bat.
God help 'em!
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Don't forget Truth's live-in girlfriend!
Don't forget Truth's live-in girlfriend! You know, Karma!
(And you know what they say about Karma!)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
The minute the Democrats offer him a nickle to
shut you up, you are gone. Kos is an ambitious profiteer. Not going there and can't believe you can't give it up.
Tell me Don. Whose mind did you change at dkos or in the party when that place was 1000% Bernie? It is a dead end for everyone but Kos. You want to push? Contact your local Democrats on Twitter and FB and blame them for Trump and everything he is doing. Politico, Salon, HuffPo - blame, blame blame Hillary and the Dems. If they blame us, remind them we warned them - #BernieOrBust.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Yes, that also. n/t
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
A new tee shirt?
" We Told You So."
Don, why do you
think that Dkos or the Democratic party should be given the time of day let alone your excellent writing. I don't want the party and it's apparatchik to be 'reformed' as it needs to go the way of the dodo and become extinct. Did you not read the Podesta e-mails or The Mad Boomber's speeches to the Bankster's? I want both arms of the duopoly Red and Blue to collapse and the only good news coming out of this disgusting farce of an election is the fact that a lot of people are aware of the nature of the political duopolies game.
Dkos is chock full of stupid, hateful, nasty brainwashed partisan's who are not worth messing with. Let them stew in their own juices along with the neoliberal neocon puppet's in the Democratic party. Why breath life into a dead party. Me I'm looking forward to dancing on the Demorat's and their mouthpieces like Marco's grave. They are part of the problem and offer no solution other then empowering the assholes who own and run the party. Why empower their sick version of authoritarian based reality. Not to mention what it does to your body mind and spirit. It's pure evil just like the Democratic party is.
Warren Should Be the Right Flank on the Great War on Banksters.*
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
With all due respect
No.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
k9disc did say RIGHT flank.
As in, Warren should be as far to the right as anybody we support or tolerate.
Now, myself, I want that line drawn somewhere to the left of Bernie Sanders. But that's just me.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I was referring to going to TOP
Waste of time, effort, and harmful to one's physical and mental health.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Oh, that, you betcha!
That place will rot your brain. It's actually become worse than reading /b/ at 4chan!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Who needs the agitation
If enough people over there push for corruption as usual, they will be making a metaphorically, suicidal choice. Having a sane, apparently honest, African American, Muslim in such an unavoidably, visible, heretofore establishment, position, would be a strong rebuke to what we've seen of Trumpism. They would be smart to back Keith Ellison. I guess we'll see how stupid the establishment is.
Beware the bullshit factories.
You know of course
that Ellison's first act after getting the endorsement of Schumer was to go and kiss Soros' ring? Everyone knows that they've imploded, but did he come and ask us what was wrong? No, of course not, he ran straight to Soros, along with the rest of the leadership.
It's a billionaire's football game over favors, and you and I don't count.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Sane Progressive on Keith Ellison!
She really nailed it. Must reading, in recent essay here at C99%.
I think it's more about us, don't you?
Front pager dishonesty and hatred of Bernie/supporters
Unfortunately, I did leave some comments a few days ago but haven't returned.
It seemed obvious to me that at a certain point, the front pagers (are they paid?) where told what propaganda points to push. The attacks on Jill Stein in particular were intellectually dishonest and without merit and amounted to smears and shit that a kangaroo court would throw out. For example, one front pager accused Stein of being an anti-vaccine through utter distortion of what Stein said. Okay, attack Stein, but do it with real issues not smears. I thought this is what like being on the left is about.
Front pagers engaged in the worst McCarthyism I saw on any pro-democratic party site. It was like they received their training by McCarthy's ghost. There was no doubt that the Russians are total evil, and Putin is their master--with some member diarists basically pushing war with Russia. That any discussion on foreign policy and war that went against Clinton made you a Putin stooge. Any serious discussion of foreign policy and war was utterly shut down cause well, you are a Putin/Trump stooge. I might even go far as to say there was a racial McCarthyism in play also.
The thing is, posters on the site followed the lead of front pagers to amplify their messages from down on high.
I would read the pro-Bernie diaries and not really much of any pro-Hillary diaries. I decided to go into a few, and I was simply astonished by the utter vitriol against Bernie supporters. And then it went from comments into diaries attacking Bernie supporters as sexist (to oppose) Hillary, and racist because black and Hispanic primary voters gave him fewer votes. (How the low African American turn out for the party?)
And go back there again? Only to view the headlines and get the latest talking points from establishment DLC/DNC. And the other articles like on the Dakota protests are simply duplicity as their candidate did jack shit to support the protesters. Climate change articles? Go fuck yourself on a fracking spigot. (Wikileaks did reveal that Clinton accused Putin of being behind anti-fracking protests--I am surprised certain front pagers didn't accuse anti-fracking protesters as being Putin stooges.)
Basically, TOP is a propaganda arm of the party establishment. Fine and dandy and I will read them as such now and then.
A message board is the place to fight the Clintons?
No, DonMidwst, it really isn't. No real life political battle has ever been won on a message board and none ever will be.