To My Friends on the Left: Hillary Clinton Is Not the Enemy
Jeffrey Isaacs published a letter today in The Nation. I would quibble with a few things in it, for example, it is addressed to a successful professional audience and is somewhat oblivious to the travails of those who are not. Hillary’s foreign policy is certainly “within a bipartisan mainstream” as Issacs says. Yet this should only be taken as an indictment of this “bipartisan mainstream”.
But Isaacs’ main argument is sound. The various career-furthering strategem Hillary is criticized for employing have been used by most presidential candidates before her as well. All this criticism is meant to divert your attention from the fact that most of us have few views in common with the groping and bullying Trump.
If you are approaching Clinton from the left, and haven’t already, you should read this: Noam Chomsky's 8-Point Rationale for Voting for the Lesser Evil Presidential Candidate
In particular:
The broader lesson to be drawn is not to shy away from confronting the dominance of the political system under the management of the two major parties. Rather, challenges to it need to be issued with a full awareness of their possible consequences. This includes the recognition that far right victories not only impose terrible suffering on the most vulnerable segments of society but also function as a powerful weapon in the hands of the establishment center, which, now in opposition can posture as the “reasonable” alternative. A Trump presidency, should it materialize, will undermine the burgeoning movement centered around the Sanders campaign, particularly if it is perceived as having minimized the dangers posed by the far right.
If, for some reason, the Weiner laptop saga has made any difference to your views, do read Isaacs as well:
To My Friends on the Left: Hillary Clinton Is Not the Enemy.
She is being attacked by the right wing because the right wing hates her. And the right wing hates her because she is a liberal and a feminist and a woman and because she supports the things that most anger the right wing: gender equality, reproductive freedom, equality for gays and lesbians, gun control, racial equality, and civil rights.
These things that she supports are the things that we support. The things she supports have their limits. She has her limits. But she is not evil, and she is not an enemy.
In the next ten days leading up to Election Day, Clinton will be subjected to a list-ditch barrage of attacks from the right. She does not “deserve” these attacks. And while the attackers target her, what they attack is much of what is valuable to you and to me. To us.
Let us not exult in her travails. They are undeserved. And such exultation does no good in any case.
Let us defeat a Republican neofascist by electing a Democratic neoliberal feminist.
Comments
Indeed there is, elena! ::head butts and purring noises::
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I agree because
overall the members here have acquitted themselves very well in discussing this essay based upon why so many of us find Clinton not acceptable as a candidate. We have clearly articulated reasons based upon her long history and her proven policy stands. As you and many of the original members here know, we wanted this site to be a place where we could discuss ideas and policies without being condemned to frame them within a partisan political party perspective. And I hope Subir realizes this is why he has gotten a lot of push back on this essay.
On a personal note, while I was harsh with Subir for his comment about us on dkos, I do commend him for returning to defend his essay. I hope when the election is over, he will feel welcome enough to come back and write on policy issues.
Thanks for this comment Shah.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Sorry subir
Nice try but it does not work for me. I spent four and a half years with a Peace vigil and I know what a Hillary Clinton Presidency will bring. I do not have to guess. She has already told us.
She brought us Iraq with her vote as a Senator and her refusal to read the report that Bob Graham urged all Senators to read before voting. Now one million civilians killed, many of them women and children, and she is trying to cast herself as a champion of women and children?
Clinton is the one who said she would nuke Iran. This is a horrifying prospect.
Clinton pushed for regime change in Libya with catastrophic results. Libya was one of the most modern of the Middle Eastern countries. Now Libya lies in ruins and it became the birthplace of ISIS.
Clinton has been a major supporter of regime change in Syria and supports the imposition of a "no fly zone" which is tantamount to declaring war with Russia.
In fact, Clinton has stated one of her first duties as President will be to reset US policy in Syria.
Clinton favors escalating of tensions with Russia which could lead to a third world war. The aggressor in this relationship is the United States and its NATO allies.
This is getting to be very long so I will stop here. But my bottom line is that I cannot support a candidate whose first reaction in foreign policy is regime change and war. That is exactly what Clinton has shown herself to be.
And BTW, I already voted for Dr. Jill Stein who has shown far more sensibility in her policies than either Clinton or Trump. If my vote leads to Trump being elected, so be it. I have had my vote held hostage by the neo-liberal Democratic party establishment for the last time. Voting the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. And in the case of wars and regime change (among other things), I believe Hillary Clinton to be the greater evil.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
gulfgal, what is so amazing is that this information in your
incredible comment is well known but people are going to vote for her anyway.
So many of us joined DK because of the Iraq war and we voted for Obama over Hillary because we thought he was serious about ending the Iraq war and not doing stupid shit when it comes to wars.
Instead we got Bush on steroids with the help from Hillary and the other warmongers in his cabinet.
Many of them wrote him a letter asking him to be more aggressive in the Syrian war theater.
He has at least not put thousands of ground troops in there which is what those people want.
I am just so mind fucked seeing how many people who used to be against the Iraq war, complained about the troop surge in Afghanistan going to vote for Hillary even while she is telling them that she is willing to risk a war with Russia and possibly start WWWIII.
Then there is going to be her economic policies and we know what they will be.
Well said.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Thanks Snoopy!
I am not as articulate as some others here about these wars, but to me, they are symptomatic of what is wrong about the priorities of the politicians in this country. As long as we have these wars, every thing else will suffer domestically, not to mention all the people we are killing overseas and all the new terrorists we are creating. Hillary Clinton is the embodiment of what is so terribly wrong with our foreign policy.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Do you remember how outraged
everyone was at TOP when Bush dumped white phosphorus on Fallujah? We're dumping it on Mosul as we speak, yet there's nary a word, because their hero is in charge.
They will tell you all about Aleppo though.
Jerks.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I think your vote is your own, and no one else gets to decide
That to me is the essence of democracy. So I'm glad you had the opportunity to vote for a candidate who aligned with you. If I felt the Stein/Baraka ticket were capable to running a presidential administration, I would vote for them since their policy positions align with mine. But I simply don't think they have the experience to do the job. It's not (for me at least) a question of "throwing away your vote", but treating it respectfully (as I understand that). You may feel differently, and believe policy positions and value alignment is the primary criteria, and that is okay. I always felt Bernie would be able to do the job, which is why I supported him throughout (and still do).
But I think there's a lesson for us here, we need to keep working on building a bigger and better group of candidates at the ground level and work our way to the top of the ticket. Bernie's definitely shown there is a large contingent of Democratic voters willing to vote left.
I have no argument with your list of HRC's failings and poor judgment when it comes to foreign policy. I'm as pained as anyone else that Clintonites will benefit from my revulsion for Trump.
@subirgrewal
It's interesting
that you claim "experience" is why you'll vote for Clinton.
Just look at what experience has gotten us lately.
Perpetual war.
Bloated defense budgets.
Massive inequities in income.
And let's not forget the best that voting for the same experienced politicians has gotten us: "Everybody does it". Lying, cheating, torture, theft and bribery are all condoned now thanks to the experienced ones.
I'd rather see an unexperienced newcomer than the same shit sandwiches and giant duches we have now.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Amazing, isn't it? I too keep hearing about her experience
And that she is the great defender of women and children, yet as you wrote about her policies I would also add how the poverty rate skyrocketed after welfare reform was passed.
And she doesn't have much to say about women's rights in Saudi Arabia or other countries that we consider our allies.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Two things:
1) I think Stein and Baraka are smart enough and confident enough to know where they lack expertise and bring in the best people to work for them. Their hearts are in the right place, that's what we need. Trump doesn't have experience either, and the array of former governors who became Presidents didn't have foreign policy experience either. The arrogance of the mainstream candidates suggest they won't listen to those who would help them do better.
2) Hillary has experience in making all the wrong decisions. Not much of a resume. Jimmy Dore had a great rant about this that unfortunately I can't find right now.
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Experience without Judgement is worthless
As is experience without ethics.
Judgment
Judgment is far more important than "experience" in my book.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Um, what, exactly is new in these arguments?
Really tired of having a gun to my head to accept the absolutely unacceptable because something else may be moreso. Pretty tired of trying to breathe when smoke is being blown up my ass this hard.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Doesn't it seem kind of crazy to you
That this shit is still being cranked out eight days before the election? They're still trying to do persuasion on the Left? They shouldn't be doing persuasion on anybody. They should be doing GOTV. What the hell is the point of an article like this? They've already gotten all the liberals and lefties they're gonna get. The idea that there's anybody left out here who's undecided and might be swayed by the same damned talking points they've been pushing since February is cuckoo.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Shhhhhh!
Shhhhhh!
Don't give them any ideas!
LOL!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
They are fund-raising today.
I have seen several calls for moolah on FB.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Is the fundraising for the election...
or her legal defense fund? I think she should start focusing on the latter. She may well need it!
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
Maybe they’re doing that Stasi thing where
they think they’re giving each of us enough rope to hang ourselves with.
Whatever we write in reply will be filed verbatim in the Hillary administration’s enemies database (a mere enemies list is so Nixon-era).
Edited to add:
That way our history of dissent can be used behind the scenes to our disadvantage if, at any time in the future, one of us should ever seek a government job or find ourselves working in a government capacity.
“Insider Threats — combating the ENEMY within your organization”
They are rolling out
the emergency measures. Last minute appeals, bizarre allegations against Trump, crazy defenses against attacks (ie lying when everyone knows the truth, I'm talking to you Donna).
They are desperate. Everything that they do smells of absolute fear and desperation.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
They must be desperate
They've made it clear that they despise us, but now - oh, darn! - they find they need us after all.
Ya think?
Funny how these threads start popping up here as soon as her poll numbers go down, isn't it?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-leads-clinton-point-poll-enthusiasm...
The clinton's are not liberal
Anyone who kisses Kissinger, wants to privatize SS for the banksters, calls black youth predator's, sends children back to hell holes in SA that her 'policies' created, calls environmentalist's extremist and dangerous, is not liberal. Feminism my ass. Welfare queens and prisons for profit? Deregulation and banksters know best? Economic disparity (austerity) for I could go on and on here but why bother you've got your head firmly implanted in the sand. Bernie ought to be ashamed of himself for his sheep dogging people of good spirit into voting for everything he spoke against.
Trump is an amateur fascist compared to the Clinton's. The Clinton Foundation? Haiti? the Ukraine? Libya? We came, we saw, we killed is not democratic, liberal or progress. A vast RW conspiracy that's out to get her is absurd delusional reasoning. Read her damn e-mails, they tell the tale. Why are you so frightened of Trump that you refuse to look at the reality of what the Clinton's are? As for Bernie and Our Revolution what a lame veal pen org. that is.
Oh my God look at the crazy RW lunatics in no way makes Hillary more acceptable. I don't care about Bernie the pol, I do care about the movement he gave voice to. Ask me anybody that supported him and is going to vote for The Mad Bomber is delusional and missed the whole point of Bernie's message. Identity politics and persona pol fandom is absurd once the masks our off and you see what they are about. Just because HRC is a woman and Obama is a black man it doesn't mean a damn thing when you have to live in the nightmare world they have created.
I'm not a Democrat anymore and will not vote for any of them. They are complicit with the Republicans you fear and loath so much. I hope both of these puppet parties, the duopoly, goes down in flames. I don't think you are a leftist if you were you would not be here pumping fear and spout absurd lies about the clinton Machine and the farce of this election. Don't worry she will will win despite the most outrageously anti-democratic election ever.
Where's my habeas corpus and posse comitatus?
'Don't follow leaders and watch the parking meters'
Why would I voter for a female psycho killer and a globalizing neoliberal grifter? Why would you?
The mole bait must have expired... anyway
As much as I admire and respect Chomsky, I can't agree with this one. When Clinton takes office, provided a warrant isn't out in the next couple of days. (who knows anymore?) she will serve as the consummate puppet of the plutocratic oligarchs. Her lawyerly skills will maintain the delusion suffered by her spellbound base while the proclaimed subsumed Sanders platform withers. You can see that handily at work already over at TOP. The right is already so badly shattered, it is doubtful that they'd be able to agree upon Justice appointment confirmations even if they maintain control of the Senate. The true left stands little chance of making serious inroads, regardless of who is elected this term. Fatalistic as that sounds, I can't see how it can be otherwise for another four to eight years. It will take that much longer for the left to substantially--culturally dig in; provided the Sanders movement doesn't peter out. I sure want to see it regain forward moving inertia.
Though the subject of her health is lesser in the spotlight than it was a month ago, it remains a serious issue. I believe that Hillary Clinton will be dead within 12 to 18 months; so diminished within a few months after the inauguration, that she will not be able to function as President. Kaine will be as ineffective as Gerald Ford should he pick up the reigns as per constitutional rule.
For me the question remains nebulous. Depending upon what happens in the first year of the next presidency; will the progressive/green/left revitalize and grow, or has this nation not thoroughly hit rock bottom yet? No matter who wins, I expect four years of dysfunction.
Meanwhile, mother nature continues to give us a well deserved "fuck you".
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I will side with Bernie. He
I will side with Bernie. He is the best prospect for any progressive wins if Hillary wins, zero prospect if Trump wins which would probably mean a republican senate too. My soul is clean voting Hillary over Trump in Indiana.
Bernie gets more strenght if Dems win the Senate, so the
down-ballot races are very important. But that is separate from Clinton winning the WH.
~OaWN
quibble?
And "those who are not" spoiled, rich, pseudo-educated and now vastly over-paid "successful professionals" are the only Americans whose concerns and "travails" matter at this point. At all. To anyone. Hillary Clinton would be a far worse President for us than even Donald Trump would be -- and I fully well realize that's saying quite a bit.
The rest of your Essay is nothing else besides necrohippoflagellation, the beating of a dead horse: yet another endless iteration of the "scary Trump" leitmotif with a couple of doses of "fascist" and "sexist" directed at Donald Trump for subtle flavor.
And that class traitor Chomsky can go fuck himself. Anyone who sells us out by advocating a grant of power to a right-wing Republican like perpetual Goldwater Girl Hillary Clinton is no friend of ordinary working people -- again, the only Americans who matter.
You'll get no sale for Hillary Clinton here, subir. We're not "With Her". Ordinary working people, those dependent on an hourly wage or worse for their subsistence, know that Hillary Clinton and all her ilk are their enemies. And by their own free choice, I might add.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Can those on this site who are older than 60
shed any light on why so many in your generation that I've admired for, well, my whole life, are willing to jump on the Hillary Death Train?
I'm kind of sick at heart watching so many people suddenly abandon all their principles and rally to Hillary either out of some sick form of team spirit or in opposition to Trump's racism. Yet Hillary's racism doesn't matter. I guess it's the lesser of two racisms.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Those of us on this site older than 60
are not voting for her heinous. The ones I know are in fear. They fear Herr Drumpf. They have drunk the fear HD kook-aid.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
having not yet crossed 55, i can only say that i am
STUNNED that any "life-long democrat" over the age of 60 was able to whistle right past the kissinger-praising. if hillary's damned health had just failed soon enough, we wouldn't have the spectacle of watching an entire generation forget their own fucking personal political history.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
People who have been anti-war lefties their whole lives
are fine with Kissinger's BFF.
The power of propaganda is something, I guess.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
They never inhaled.
I was there at the keggers, I saw it, the same damn people who didn't inhale are the ones who won't let their hair down. I knew something was wrong at the time but I couldn't figure it out. Now I know.
I see what you mean, LOL
It's easy to forget that not all Baby Boomers were hippies or lefties.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Ah, so I was right!
Ah, so I was right! These people really do need more marijuana! Probably more LSD, too!
And maybe a nice treat: chocolate cake (made with old-fashioned Ex-Lax!)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
No, not more LSD. Too disturbing to the dogs.
Or at least, leave off the cough syrup.
Man mixing LDS and cough syrup saves dog from imaginary fire
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B49Zpyi8XAs width:500]
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"Leave off the cough syrup" is right!
Abuse of dextromethorphan as a psychoactive narcotic is extremely deranging. And that's alone. Cat knows what the bloody hell you'd get if you mixed it with acid.
Sounds like you've stumbled onto a mix as bad as "The Worst Street Drug Ever" according to The Anarchist Cookbook: a little ditty called "LBJ", a mixture of acid, belladonna, and heroin. (Gaaaak!)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
At 56, my entire family, including my 80+-year-old parents
and some older sibs, are voting for Jill. So I haven't figured it out either.
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I've been wondering about that myself. I don't know
why they're all so damn afraid.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Sure - I'm 70, I was in the streets and all that, but guess who
else is 70 -- Bill Fucking Clinton, who wasn't in the streets and all that. Its that simple.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Yeah, I think that was Al's point--
watch out for the ones that didn't inhale.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
To abandon Her is to abandon the Party.
Anxiety would increase with intensity of commitment to the Party which is high among older, long- time loyalists. (imo)
I think James Carville may stroke out over Russian espionage!!
Stein - Baraka
2016
Enemy
I beg to differ, subir. Hillary Clinton is the enemy; the worst kind of enemy -- the enemy who pretends to be your friend. Despite your assurances to the contrary, Hillary Clinton has demonstrated nothing but contempt for the peasants over whom she plans to rule. The truth is she doesn't give a damn about anybody but herself and her fat cat friends. You'd have to be in a state of total denial to think otherwise. To hell with her and all who make excuses for her.
She normalizes evil.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Subir I've followed you on what is now Hillary Central
and I'm disappointed to hear you ignoring truth about Hillary while spewing all the PR talking points that can bear no real scrutiny in discussions. Most of those things are half truths..at best and the result of what is politically useful for her to tout at the time.
I see no need to repeat what many others have already pointed out above but one great evil in this world has always been war,in it are all evils and Hillary Clinton is the very definition of a 'war monger' by her own record (on and off the record) that relishes support from one of the biggest war criminals in our history, Henry Kissinger and other noted neocons like the Kagans, Max Boot and others.
But one image should never be forgotten and that is her gleeful reaction to the horrible murder of Qaddafi as ANY murder can be a laughing matter...especially when killed after brutal torture. Now I don't know if Hillary knew at the time the conditions of his murder, like the sodomy by a bayonet but I never heard of any apology for giggling over a brutal murder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y
Will we hear that giggling after the next 'regime change' and every one that follows that one? If we had a real 'fourth estate' anyone laughing about murder (of anyone) would have committed political suicide ,not Hillary, but did you find it a laughing matter?
I hope you and others on the Daily Floss take your heads out of her royal (can do NO wrong) posterior and join the many people around the world and work hard to stop her promised escalation of war on Syria.
One last thing Subir our involvement in Syria is a war crime because we are in a sovereign territory UNINVITED and waging a war to overthrow yet another (in this case a democratically elected) Ruler. It is illegal under International Law, everything we are doing there and what Hillary is promising to do...are all war crimes. You have NO problem with THAT?
But hey we are '"exceptional" and "necessary" so all the men women and children that die we can once again call "collateral damage).
I have no sympathy for any of the imperialist
inclinations of various American politicians. I simply do not see a better alternative. Every way I look at it, HRC is better. And as I explained above, though my views align much better with Stein, I concluded she's not prepared to take on the job. You may have reached a different assessment, that's part of what makes this a democracy.
I'm as distressed as anyone else that the neocon brigade are going to be the beneficiaries of my revulsion for Trump. Personally, I think our actions in Yemen are easier to criticize than anything we're doing in Syria (which has numerous other actors supplying arms and support).
@subirgrewal
White phosphorus in Mosul
it's a thing now. There are at least three places competing for the title of "worst current war crimes of the empire".
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I remember when white phosporus was a bad thing
when Bush was President.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
The neocon brigade is not
Going to be beneficiaries of your antipathy for Trump. YOU and everyone else who rewards War Profiteering with YOUR VOTE are going to be complicit in the mutilation and deaths of thousands of women and children.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I wash my hands
When the lesser of two evils has tentacles sprouting from her chin (Lovecraft reference for the uninitiated) I suggest you have been assuming that the label (D) is the lesser for so long that you have blinded yourself. For an obvious example, when Hillary said that after she destroys the Iranian nuclear facility, with a nuke if necessary (it would be) she intends a "military response" to Russsian and Chinese hacking I heard "WW3", you heard "------".
If Hillary rigs the general like she rigged the primary I expect she will deteriorate into hubristic, paranoid, megalomania like a 1980s Ming The Merciless wannabe, ending with her on a balcony yelling , "Top of the world, Ma!".
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Heat - Hillary as Cody Jarrett, how appropriate. )
On to Biden since 1973
Little known failures and mental status of Hill $ Bill
1. Hillary, although undiagnosed, is a psychopath. A freaking psychopath! Nobody who lives in public but a psychopath would lie about previous lies on top of previous lies. She lies when proof exists that she's lying, thinking nobody would bother to fact check her. Psychopaths have such high opinions of themselves, vis-vis others, that even when they're caught lying, they double down and lie some more. She cackles with glee when she kills people - Gaddafi, Bin laden. She believes she is above the law, which explains her traitorous behavior concerning classified information. She never takes responsibility for her clusterf..k screwups, but blames her aides or Republicans. She manipulates public opinion by smearing whoever gets in her way - Comey, Bernie, Trump, their supporters. She uses her global contacts in the media to smear true heroes, like Julian Assange. She has her enemies killed (can't prove it, but the bodies sure have been piling up lately).
2. Now Bill is another piece of work, but he's just a sociopath ... His brain structure is normal. Sure, he's obscenely corrupt, a rapist, a liar, wait a minute, could he be a psychopath too? What a marriage made in heaven; what are the chances? That alleged Lolita Express rape jet, full of underage sex slaves, owned by a buddy he pardoned has been getting a lot of use since he left office. And aside from passing legislation that consolidated the media into a corporate nightmare, plunged poor women and children into abject poverty by ending welfare, stuck tens of thousands of young black males in for-profit prisons, ushered in the Third Way private-public partnerships that made him so rich, made Democrats embrace austerity and low corporate taxes, paved the way for the Great Recession by ending Glass-Steagall and passing the Securities Modernization Act, not to mention his job-killing trade bills, like NAFTA, CAFTA and sponsoring China's admission into the WTO (and the loss of our manufacturing base) before he left office, he did something else by doing nothing at all. Remember the Rwanda Genocide, when Hutus hunted Tutsis down and raped the women and killed the men? He could have sent in temporary troops and peace workers, but he did nothing, despite being begged for help when the rest of the world turned a blind eye. But this was after the Mogadishu debacle (Black Hawk down) and he was more concerned how another failure would make him look, so he dithered and almost a million Rwandans were slaughtered in three months.
There's so much more about what these two have "accomplished" but I don't want to rewrite War and Peace. Suffice it to say, if these "competent, eminently qualified, experienced" people become co-presidents again (that's what the arrangement will be), I'll be on the next plane out.
Subir, you are cracking me up.
Such silliness about her heinous. Really? You think she's better than Herr Drumpf? They are no different - well, actually, she is worse than him.
I know you are afraid. We've had this discussion. Don't be afraid. You cannot guarantee the future so no worries, no fear!
Be happy!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Nope, he is inarguably worse.
He's a bullying white-supremacist who picks on the powerless around him. Every day I walk past the entrance to Central Park that the Central Park Five took. And every day I'm reminded that the orange maggot still says, decades after all the charges/confessions of those teenagers were discredited, that they should have been hung. He's worse.
@subirgrewal
Three words: "Ricky Ray Rector".
That was more than just "talk", that was actually killing a black man so mentally disabled that he saved the dessert from his last meal for "afterward". (And no, it doesn't matter how he got that way.)
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
If Hillary's "travails" are undeserved
(and I'm not even sure what "travails" the author's talking about)
I'm a fucking Rotarian.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
She worked to disenfranchise me as a Bernie voter
Or at least she and Bill and their DNC tipped the scales egregiously. Do I just forget about that? What about democracy?
Trump stokes up hate to manipulate people and he would probably have some purely awful Supreme Court picks. If I lived in a swing state I might consider voting for Hillary for that reason only, but it basically seems like a choice between rotten apples and rotten oranges.
I live in California where the latest polls show Hillary 26 points ahead of Trump. If those 26 percent of voters decided to vote for Jill instead of Hillary, Jill would win California and Trump would come in third and the election would probably go to Congress to decide, which is ok with me. Let them take responsibility for the horrible "choice" we had imposed on us. I want to help put Jill over 5% so we can end this 2 party dinosaur.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Man, I love this community so fucking much
All of the comments, every dang one, is a thing of beauty to behold. So many well-argued points, explained simply and cogently by so many different people. Gosh, I am just loving all of you so very much right now, I'm actually starting to cry.
xoxoxoxo ~OaWN
~OaWN
Heh. I read this on the side bar and thought you were
snarking! But yes, we do argue well, don't we?
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Snarking? Me?
/s
~OaWN
Well Subir,
I've read each comment posted as I went through. I think you have one supporter out of 105.
Could you post the tally at the GOS. We'd do it, but any one of us who has not yet been banned would get banned for the post. You see, Markos doesn't believe in the tolerance we have extended to you.
HE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
And on that point, supporting a candidate who actually pays out
big bucks for TROLLS to go out and spread PROPAGANDA and DISINFORMATION in order for her to obtain victory AT ANY COST ... that is not a person that that I could support in any way shape or form.
She hired agitators to go out to Trump rallies and do their best to incite violence.
Who fucking does that? And who can possibly call themselves a liberal and be in support of a candidate who would do that?
According the Julian Assange, her tactics and approach to war is a RECIPE to increase the number of terrorists who hate America. And I think he has a point.
WikiLeaks: A vote today for Hillary Clinton is a vote for endless, stupid war - by Julian Assange
Hillary is lower than whale shit, to borrow a phrase from someone who I admire.
~OaWN
I 'm late to the party but count me in at 106.
I don't feel as charitable toward the poster as some here do. I clearly remember that feeling following the edict over at GOS. I want this author and the others there to know while your posts and others like it are tolerated I do not welcome them. AND it is you and those who think and vote like you who will be to blame for the fracuring of the left, and frankly the further demise of this country and it's future. Edited to correct reference to the author of the OP.
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
Subir was a Bernie supporter
He has taken his share of attacks Over There and pushed back against the edict, IIRC.
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So how does
that mean he should be listened to or respected. I never ran into him at dkos as I left before Bernie even ran. The Obama worshiping ass backward identity politics loving did it for me. Being called racist or white privileged if i objected to what they were doing and called out the Obama administration for their horrendous Third Way bait and switch . I also did not take kindly to being bullied by the likes of Dee Oliver and her flying monkeys. I have no respect for anyone who stays there and participates in that cesspool.
I know a few Bernie supporters in real life who are voting for HRC but even they do not go around taking about Hillary as though she were liberal. They do not try to convert me and some are opening their eyes thanks to wikileaks. They know full well what she's about. Most of them are afraid of The Hairball and basically depend on the establishment media for misinformation. I don't know how long subir has been on dkos but he seems to know enough to see what he's supporting. As for being civil in this essay there is nothing polite or civil about what he's advocating for. I do not respect this person why should I.
I find his rationale of voting for Hillary appalling and sickening. She may not be his enemy but then again he's a dkos right winger neoliberal neocon. He see's people on the left who won't drink the kool aide as being in need of conversion. Anyone who says the Russians did it, uses the excuse of every administration has done it, and will vote for the Mad Bomber is a cowardly brainwashed idiot. Who cares if he got attacked for supporting Bernie and pushed back on the edict? He's here right now pumping unbelievable, nasty ass right wing facistic propaganda. Why is he here? Why does he call us his friends on the left? He's no friend of the left he's a shit stirrer for the corrupt immoral, cowardly right wingers at dkos who call themselves Demorats.
As you can see I do not give a shit about who does what at dkos, why do you? Not only is Hillary the enemy but so is the whole Clinton Democratic apparatchik including kos and his idiot minions.
Well, I didn't post it here because I thought it would
be popular.
@subirgrewal
Which begs the question: why did you post it here?
Why do you keep starting threads like this, knowing what reactions they elicit?
Because he likes the pats on the back from the crowd at TOP
would be my guess.
EDIT: crown/crowd
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
C99ers
Represent man.
I hope folks here realize...
how big of a compliment that is coming from you Al.
C99ers
also represent woman.
Edit: And pootie.
Just sayin.
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Did it again didn't I.
OK, I do learn, I swear.
A comma makes it better. Not a coma, though.
The importance of commas
At the Frankfurt Book Fair this year, Duden — the publisher whose reference works are considered “the predominant language resource of the German language” — was present as usual with a big pavilion.
A display promoting their grammar guide:
I once met an English prof who got paid as an expert witness
to testify about a comma in a product liability case. The relevant comma was in the instructions for using the product. Sadly, that's all I remember. I don't remember the product, or, more to the point, the sentence.
Thanks man,
I've noticed it before this and was going to actually write something about it. It's a cool thing.
People really do care about war and empire, Al.
And it ain't just us.
If they're not in the streets, it's because they're sick of their protests being ignored, and haven't figured out a new tactic yet.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I used to respect you, Subir
But by posting this LOTE drivel here, I have to wonder what your motivations are. If you have any gonads at all, then you will share this essay AND COMMENTS with your cohorts over at TOP. You are a good writer and I believe(d) you to be a caring person, but this is awful, and you should know you came here in a blatant attempt to agitate all of the sane, rational thinkers at C99. Take this essay and it's comments over to TOP, I DARE YOU!
Any stained glass afficionados? Please check out my website: www.masterpieceglass.net
I read it a Dkos before I
I read it a Dkos before I seen it here.
It's all been said above,
so I've little more than 'Thanks, but no thanks'.
Staying Green this Halloween.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Since that day in 2003 when HRC stood up and declared
"I stand by my President," that President at the time was George W. Bush who had just initiated the illegal invasion of Iraq, I have looked on her as an enemy. What she did in 2003 is unforgivable on a global scale no matter how long she lives.
To thine own self be true.
Not just an imperialist criminal warmonger
but also not an elected President at all, which she damned well knew.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Which is what she will be
once the coronation takes place. She like bush will have been selected.
Thanks For The Projectile Laugh.
But After careful consideration
I'm voting Jill Stein.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Hilarious! Is that yours?
May I steal it?
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Yes. You may steal the image
that I stole.
I saw it on the tweeter one day.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
to my good friends at orangewater:
please go ahead and bojo all of the responses here, as exposed by your good friend subir.
after that, don't bother sending any other boilerplate bullshit from your laughably fucked up campaign.
if Her! loses, it's not Her! fault. i think we can all agree on that.
it's your fault, orangewater. yours and any other bought-and-paid tool of the garbage, lying piece of shit pseudo-left campaign.
you should be ashamed of yourselves. if you're wondering why, it's because you're establishment tools. senseless, parrot morons.
enjoy the results of your bullshit tirade, whichever side it happens to fall on. oh, and well done, subir. you're pretty convincing, i bet it goes over well back at the dumpster fire. /slowclap
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Yes, come flag us!
Bring them all over here to find the flags so we can be bojo'd off this site. This would be an especially good activity to keep them busy a week from today!
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Hillary advanced the destruction of every secular Arab republic
(secular in the sense of non-sectarian) while pulling in big bucks shoring up, and hawking weapons to, every Arab feudal tyranny, with Salafist, Wahhabist Saudi Arabia as the spider in the center of the web.
Complicit in the destruction of the non-sectarian states Iraq, Libya, and Syria, she shares the responsibility for setting back the cause of women’s rights in the Middle East and North Africa on a time scale of generations, if not centuries.
How can any reasonable person regard such a politician as a feminist and friend of women’s rights? Only by blocking the millions of ordinary Arab women not married to plutocrats entirely out of their thoughts.
Subir, we'll be mainly on the same side soon when POTUS Kaine
Subir, we'll be mainly on the same side soon when POTUS Kaine is deciding between nominating, as VP (and tilting policy somewhat in the direction of):
1. OH Sen Rob Portman, in order to cement the Democratic Party's role as the sole party unifying all the monied interests between Center-Right and Center-Center,
or
2. A Bernie-supported figure (OR-Sen Jeff Merkley?), in order to try to re-unify the Democratic Party.
I believe that option 1 is more likely, because it will more easily obtain Congressional approval, and because Kaine (or President Hillary, if she hangs on) is smart enough to see that the Democratic Party leadership's conning of anti-militarists and economic populists is a played out strategy that must be replaced. I like to think that you will be on our side in opposition to it, and in withdrawing support from the Kaine-led center-dominating party.
Before that, when Congress's lame-duck session is used to ram through the TPP, I hope that you will be more attentive to its importance, and will join the last-ditch effort to resist its passage.
Of course you are correct that Trump's asserted opposition to the TPP tells us virtually nothing about what he would actually do as President. But, analogously, Trump's racist rhetoric does not give us much guidance over whether, as President, he would encourage White racist mob violence, rather than telling White racists "don't go into the streets and destroy the country that putting me in office has put us on the road to taking back."
Little, other than risk (and more environmental-climate tipping points), can be predicted for the next four years.
Yeah? Good luck with *that*....
What part of "you screwed the pooch for good when you screwed Sanders and his millions of supporters" hasn't made its way past your eyeballs yet? The Democratic Party committed hari-kari this cycle, and good riddance to bad rubbish.
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