Russia vows to "respond" to cyber attacks

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 12:42pm

VP Joe Biden went on TV to talk trash about how we're going to make an example of Russia for their insolence.

"Why haven’t we sent a message yet to Putin,” Chuck Todd, host of the “Meet the Press” show on NBC, asked Joe Biden.
“We are sending a message [to Putin]… We have a capacity to do it, and…”

"He’ll known it?” Todd interfered.

“He’ll know it. It will be at the time of our choosing, and under the circumstances that will have the greatest impact,” the US vice president replied.

Some here are skeptical, and it's right to not trust this government about anything.
As Bobswern pointed out, we are the most aggressive and active cyber war country in the world.

While that makes us hypocrites, that doesn't make this any less real.
Think about the lead-up to wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, ISIS, etc.
They were always announced ahead of time, or at least after the decision was already made.

The defining characteristic in Washington these days is hubris.
Consequences are for little people.

The Democrats have built this up to the point that a "we taught them a lesson" moment is necessary, and that requires a PR blitz to get everyone "on message".
It's standard political procedure.

Of course, Russia is not amused.

The Kremlin on Saturday slammed Washington for its "unprecedented" threats against Moscow over an alleged series of cyber attacks and vowed to respond....
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov immediately denounced Biden's remarks, saying Moscow would take precautions to safeguard its interests in the face of the increasing "unpredictability and aggressiveness of the United States".
"The threats directed against Moscow and our state's leadership are unprecedented because they are voiced at the level of the US vice president," RIA Novosti news agency quoted him as saying.
"To the backdrop of this aggressive, unpredictable line, we must take measures to protect (our) interests, to hedge risks."
And Kremlin aide Yuri Ushakov vowed Moscow would respond to any US cyber attacks, saying such threats were "borderline insolence", the news agency said.

What everyone is overlooking here is what should be the most obvious question: Who has the most to lose in a cyberwar?
The answer is unquestionably, the United States.

Consider this list of the largest internet companies in the world.
The US has 13 of the top 22 internet companies in the world by revenue.
The Russia internet company, Yandex, is 23rd in the world.

By market value, the US has 13 of the top 17 internet companies in the world.
Russia isn't even on the list.

As for largest IT companies, we have 8 of the top 13.
Russia isn't even on the list.

Largest software companies, we have 7 of the top 10 in the world.
Russia isn't even on the list.

Much like going to war in Afghanistan, it's a no-win scenario. We have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

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Comments

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:09pm

It just occurred to me

that Snowden did us another favor.
The public backlash from his whistleblowing made all the internet companies take encryption seriously and standardize it (against the wishes of the government).
That makes are cyber-defenses significantly better.

Submitted by rmwarnick on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:19pm

The war on Russia ends November 9th

That's my prediction. It's this election-year equivalent of ebola in 2014.

—

"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Submitted by sojourns on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:16pm

I so hope you are right on this.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by ggersh on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:45pm

It needs to be repeated

I so hope you're right on this

—

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Submitted by native on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 6:32pm

It looks to me like

the Russian government is taking recent US threats quite seriously.

—

native

Submitted by Ellen North on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 10:51pm

Indeed, the damage is done,

Indeed, the damage is done, even if this is all lunatic frenzy for the benefit of donors and/or PR distractions. And it's not only Russia - won't any/all countries with sane leaders be wondering how to take out the American Super-Villains before these ~~corporate servants~~ leaders take out the entire world?

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by native on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 9:57am

More than a few Europeans

are having second thoughts about being tangled up in America's new Cold War.

—

native

Submitted by FuturePassed on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:51pm

One more time

I so hope you are right on this.

But Hillary Clinton has doubled down and doubled down again on her proposal to declare a no-fly zone over Syria. When the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was asked in a congressional hearing to talk about the consequences of a no-fly zone he said you have to expect a shooting war with Syria and Russia.

So you're betting on Hillary's sanity. What kind of odds do you expect.

Submitted by James Kroeger on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 8:47pm

Does anybody have a link...

...to an article on Clinton's most recent comments on her insane no-fly zone idea? Was she asked about it in the last month or two?

I remember catching a mention of some such recently, but saw no article on it.

I have a friend/acquaintance at work who's falling for the Clinton team's spin on the Russia. I'd like to show him something...

If Trump was smart, he'd make this scary plan of hers the highlight of his campaign for a while. It would turn her use of the Russian card on its head, focusing all attention on her tendency toward reckless and intentionally provocative foreign policy moves.

—

James Kroeger

Submitted by Ellen North on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 10:47pm

Who would trust the The

Who would trust the The Coronated One to actually drop plans to invade/nuke the multiple countries her paymasters evidently want radioactively razed/militarily subjugated, regardless of the universally fatal consequences? Not me! And not the multiple countries, including Russia, China, India and Pakistan, watching this ongoing dystopian American nightmare with wary eyes while loading up on nukes themselves in the hope of deterring the corporate/military-government lunatics from actually enacting the very worst of their appalling behaviours.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Not Henry Kissinger on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:20pm

Moronic.

Ashton Carter faces a revolt of the generals if he tries to bomb Syria, so Obama throws the neocons a bone by giving John Brennan his cyber war.

There's no actual strategy here. It's all just about appeasing the war hawks faction with half measures while trying to look tough for Hillary.

Somebody somewhere needs to grab the reins before this idiot starts something he won't be around to finish.

—

The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Submitted by mhagle on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:27pm

The U.S. general population is far from the most tech literate

. . . in my opinion. This is not based on any study, just my experience as a technology teacher for 20 years. I became a geek in the 80s when I learned I could use a computer to write music. I was there to watch it all come about . . . Apple IIe to Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 . . . and then I discovered Linux. Still use Linux on everything.

This is my point though. As a teacher, when I discovered Linux and open source software, it was a wonderful thing personally, because I used all of this great free software for running classroom servers, 3D modeling/animation, graphics, music composition, Sugar OS for younger kids . . . etc. etc. Preached the gospel of Linux everywhere I could and showed off beautiful student work. Did I ever convert anyone?? No. The strangle hold of Microsoft and Apple on educational technology is complete and terrible. Trillions of dollars wasted. And what have we produced? A generation of technologically illiterate folks. Of course there are cool techie kids out there anyway, but Windows and Apple products make it impossible or nearly impossible to even see the file system. And you can't see the source code.

Students from poor countries who have used Linux for affordability have been brought up on an operating system that is designed for growth, sharing, and creativity. They can see the source code of every app and modify it to suit their needs.

My students in the early 90s who had DOS machines, ran bulletin boards, and knew how to use telnet, were far more savvy than my Windows/Apple users of 20 years later.

When I first heard the story that there were lots of hackers in China, I thought to myself, "of course . . . they were raised on Linux." At one time China even had it's own Linux distribution. Windows did not own China.

It's been a few years since I have researched this topic, so maybe it has changed.

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by mhagle on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:40pm

So . . . really my point is that . . .

I am not so sure that we are the top dogs in a hacker war.

One domestic example that comes to my mind was the rollout of the original ACA website. I could look at the html code and see serious design flaws. And the signup/login system was being hacked in real time. Passwords were being automatically converted to all caps - something they quickly would have caught in the testing stage.

Surely our cyber experts are far above the quality of those web designers.

Here, we have cyber experts with tech illiterates in the general population. In Russia, they have their cyber experts, and a shit-load of hackers in their general population.

We are not prepared for this fight.

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:49pm

I believe that we have the best hackers, but...

we also have the largest, most weakly defended IT infrastructure.

It's like having the best rock throwers in the neighborhood, but also having a glass-windowed mansion.
The other guy doesn't need to have a great arm to win.

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 3:53pm

Poorly protected and poorly constructed. Outsourcing.

Having been in high tech all my working life and having seen companies replace American-educated engineers (regardless of racial or ethnic backgrounds) with mainly Indian educated engineers through H1b workers and outsourcing, we have created open to unstable infrastructure frameworks in many areas. Sorry to say, the idea of Indian engineers being technologically better educated and more advanced than American trained engineers is a myth pushed by large high tech companies. On the other hand, and it is this reality that matters, they are a lot cheaper, and can actually be legally paid less in the US.

I used to say that we are slowly building up to what I called "software prairie fires" in some segments of high tech. A network guy on another forum claimed that recent massive security holes that have appeared in huge number of routers from multiple companies is due to using minimally (barely) qualified, but cheaper engineering labor.

So fixing and securing the IT infrastructure will probably require whole sale re-architecture and replacement which nobody is going to do as the balance sheet is still on the side of profits through low cost labor. The side effects are simply the cost of business--much like what happened to the banksters and their cheating--the fines they were given just the cost of doing business.

If and when the Russians (or Chinese) come with a vengeance, they will not have to huff and puff to blow the house down, as the doors to the house will be wide open.

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:32pm

To end this poor quality for low pay disaster-in-waiting

the penalty for failure of secure software technology must be made painful. Pain in corporatocracy is defined as a diminished bottom line. The incentive to change is really simple although the re-working of flawed software will be long and tedious as well as expensive.

The side effects are simply the cost of business--much like what happened to the banksters and their cheating--the fines they were given just the cost of doing business.

The tax code by necessity must be changed for IT (and many other industries) by preventing business from taking governmental fines (whether local or national) as a tax write-off. Then the penalties will truly be painful, encouraging companies (in all industries) to do the job correctly the first time, without skating laws or essential standards.

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:25pm

Fines already are non-deductible. The "fines" the press

writes about are almost always pursuant to a very carefully worded document that makes them, in the eyes of the law, "not-fines". Companies are always signing consent agreements. These are jokingly paraphrased as "We did no wrong and promise not to do it again. As a token of our goodwill we are making a donation to the investigating agency in order to help defray the costs of the investigation and hearings."

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Kurichan on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 1:17am

Does this not create opportunity

For the code-savvy among us(I'm not one of those, but could be an ally)?

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:18pm

China left the US in the dust in computer technology.

When I first heard the story that there were lots of hackers in China, I thought to myself, "of course . . . they were raised on Linux." At one time China even had it's own Linux distribution. Windows did not own China.

It's been a few years since I have researched this topic, so maybe it has changed.

If you were wondering where China is at in cyber supremacy, it's way up ahead... in quantum-land. But you were right: Linux is at the development core. Intel's chips were too primitive for China's ambitions, so they designed their own more powerful microprocessors.

JUNE 2016 — THIS WEEK, CHINA’S Sunway TaihuLight officially became the fastest supercomputer in the world. The previous champ? Also from China. What used to be an arms race for supercomputing primacy among technological nations has turned into a blowout.

The US would have to be insane to challenge China — or Russia, for that matter — to a cyberwar. Beyond the fact that the US is behind at least two years, technologically, the geopolitical realities demand that there be three superpowers in a multipolar world. There can be no stability otherwise.

And, that's how its's going to be.

China's New Supercomputer Puts the US Even Further Behind

The Sunway TaihuLight is indeed a monster: theoretical peak performance of 125 petaflops, 10,649,600 cores, and 1.31 petabytes of primary memory. That’s not just “big.” Former Indiana Pacers center Rik Smits is big. This is, like, mountain big. Jupiter big.

TaihuLight’s abilities are matched only by the ambition that drove its creation. Fifteen years ago, China claimed zero of the top 500 supercomputers in the world. Today, it not only has more than everyone else—including the United States—but its best machine boasts speeds five times faster than the best the US can muster. And, in a first, it achieves those speeds with purely China-made chips.

::

TaihuLight is a singular accomplishment. Its 10.6 million cores are more than three times the previous leader, China’s Tianhe-2, and nearly 20 times the fastest U.S. supercomputer, Titan, at Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

TaihuLight is faster than anything scheduled to come online in the US until 2018, when three Department of Energy sites will each receive a machine expected to range from 150 to 200 petaflops. That’s ahead of where China is now—but two years is half an eternity in computer-time. That the lead has gotten so large galls some lawmakers for reasons both political and practical. Legislation exists calling for a supercomputer funding boost, but has spent the last year mired in the Senate.

“Massive domestic gains in computing power are necessary to address the national security, scientific, and health care challenges of the future,” says Rep. Randy Hultgren, a Republican from Illinois whose American Super Computing Leadership Act has twice been passed by the House of Representatives. “It is increasingly evident that America is losing our lead.” Meanwhile the DOE is working on innovating with the budget it has.

The other significant TaihuLight achievement stings US interests even more, because it’s political. China’s last champ, Tianhe-2, had Intel inside. But in February of 2015, the Department of Commerce, citing national security concerns—supercomputers excel at crunching metadata for the NSA and their foreign equivalents—banned the sale of Intel Xeon processor to Chinese supercomputer labs.

Rather than slow the rate of Chinese supercomputer technology, the move appears to have had quite the opposite effect.

Sanctions are always a bad idea, and the US Neocons always make the same mistake. US Sanctions are why China has a more advanced GPS system and why their space program is the most ambitious on the planet. US Sanctions made Iran the most vibrant market in the Middle East, flooded with Western investors. US Sanctions lifted Russia into a brilliant alliance with China, creating the powerhouse of Eurasia and engaging the entire Eastern Hemisphere.

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:37pm

Over confidence.

If you are going to war, best not to under or over estimate the enemy. Problem is ideology always gets in the way of making clear, reality based evaluations. And in the chest thumping from our officials, seems we are under-estimating the Russians. I suppose McCains evaluation that Russia is a country with only a gas station seems to prevail among the neocon elite.

I remember reading a story which has not been denied where the USS Cook went into the Black Sea as a show of force when Russia annexed Crimea. Two lone unarmed Russian fighters approached the USS Cook. Suddenly the entire electronics on the ship went dead. They couldn't even fire back in self defense. One of the fighters than made something like 12 attack runs at the ship. (By the way, a number of months ago, the USS Cook was buzzed in the Baltic Sea exactly one year after their Aegis electronics was knocked out--I guess a message.)

I am sure we can fuck up the Russians, and I am equally sure the Russians can fuck us back to the same levels.

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:47pm

Oh about sanctions

In the case of Russia, they issued counter sanctions against EU agriculture. Did not make the news here, but this hurt EU agriculture. Even Lithuanian farmers protested the sanctions. Looks like the counter sanctions will cost EU agriculture in the hundreds of millions of Euros. But recently have been reading stories about how the agricultural counter sanctions have helped Russian farmers and dairies. (By the way, I think Russia and Israel are doing pretty well trading with each other.)

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:50pm

Our Corporatist culture has enabled do-nothing Congress

“Massive domestic gains in computing power are necessary to address the national security, scientific, and health care challenges of the future,” says Rep. Randy Hultgren, a Republican from Illinois whose American Super Computing Leadership Act has twice been passed by the House of Representatives.

I find this statement absolutely pathognomonic (i.e., a specific diagnostic factor) of the ills a standstill Congress is doing to our national security. The Republicans, such as Rep. Hultgren are generally considered as anti-science (you know, Chinese hoaxes) but here we have a Republican who tried to pass what sounds to be an appropriate solution to the computer problems excellently detailed by Pluto. This bill apparently passed the Republican-controlled House twice. So who killed this bill in the Senate?

Submitted by Not Henry Kissinger on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 6:22pm

Mr. President...

That the lead has gotten so large galls some lawmakers for reasons both political and practical. Legislation exists calling for a supercomputer funding boost, but has spent the last year mired in the Senate.

We can not allow a Petaflop Gap!

—

Submitted by GreatLakeSailor on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:26pm

Wait a minute...

Ain't Jared Fogle a petaflop?

—

Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.

Submitted by Late Again on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 9:14pm

Do you know of a good source to educate one's self

in Linux? I've been wanting to get away from Microsoft for years but although hardware comes naturally to me, software, programming and coding do not.

I'm accustomed to educating myself (everything from crochet and cooking to sailing and navigation); if you could point me in a good direction I would surely appreciate it.

—

"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain

Submitted by mhagle on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 3:35am

You would have no problem using

.... a Linux Graphical User Interface. Put a live distribution on a flash drive and boot to it. You can play around in a Linux environment without installing anything.

Knoppix is my favorite live distribution. www.knopper.net/knoppix/knoppix742-en.html

There are many educational Linux resources. Here is a link to get you started....

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-downloadable-books-to-teach-yourself-linux/

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by Creosote. on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 7:47am

What about tracking for editing?

Thank you, @mhagle -- especially for the books link. Yet what I work with are 50,000 - 250,000 word scholarly manuscripts and my gray cells. XP's interface is essentially ideal for access to characters, symbols, formatting, tracking, and submitting no-formatting MSS to publishers. Are those features replicated anywhere in Linux? Most of my clients are still struggling to use Word.

Submitted by mhagle on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 9:11am

So many great editors in Linux. . .

I think I like Kate the best.

So you are stripping out the word formatting? Like you save as text in Word and then open in Notepad to finish the job?

You also might be interested in the app "Lyx." http://www.lyx.org/ It is a document processor. I never use word processors. It was written specifically those who author scholarly works. I taught my high school kids how to use it. You input plain text and just choose a style. Identify title, author, bibliography and view the pdf. Voila! A beautifully formatted document.

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by Creosote. on Mon, 10/17/2016 - 12:03pm

No notepad,

just Word in TNR 12 point, no business-report-type formatting. First, the material has to be accessible to and workable by the client, then the final MS must comply with publisher's specs, which are set up to facilitate the designer applying dfferent software to format for page layout.
But many thanks -- have just copied your post and will have a look at "lyx."

Submitted by Sima on Tue, 10/18/2016 - 8:17am

Are you talking about...

Having a base document with code in it, that any publisher can change simply by changing the template?

I have used Linux since 1996, and have had it as my exclusive OS since about 1998. In 2008 I wrote my PhD using OpenOffice (now called Libreoffice) in Linux. I used master documents and templates. I published it in 2012. I edited it for publication, of course, but I simply changed the template to get it formatted how the publisher desired. My point is, this is a fairly easy thing to do with libreoffice. MS documents just drop in, and it can save files with MS coding. It can save as pdfs and so on.

—

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by GreyWolf on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 10:52am

n/t bookmark

Submitted by Late Again on Sat, 10/22/2016 - 1:26am

Marilyn, I just got back to this thread

(Late Again, as usual) and I wanted to make sure you know how much I appreciate the links. I'd really like to get away from the Windows OS altogether.

—

"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain

Submitted by CalvinV on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 6:40am

Ubuntu Linux

There are hundreds of different distributions of Linux but you might be interested in Ubuntu Linux/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)

Reasons:
- the name is cool
- it's the most popular
- it's available on devices such as tablets and smart phones as well and not just computers.
- Microsoft recently supports it as a subsystem on top of the Windows 10 kernel. That means you can have Windows and Ubuntu Linux running at the same time. Previously, you will have to pick which OS you want to boot your PC into when you turn it on.
Using Linux might mean different things to different people. There are attempts to make the Linux interface Windows-like and you just click on icons to do what you want to do. And then there are Linux users like me who do everything by typing commands on the keyboards.
So, you will have to memorize the essential commands at first and gradually expand your knowledge by learning new ones and what they do. There are man pages for the commands. You can google for a survival list of Linux commands. Later, you can write your own shell scripts to execute a combination of commands. It's probably easier to grab than writing programs since you're already familiar with what the commands do independently.

Submitted by mhagle on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 9:40am

I use Ubuntu too . . . and love the command line!

I have Ubuntu Mate on my notebook, and Ubuntu Studio on my desktop that I use for the multimedia stuff.

Using the command line is fabulous for many tasks. I switch to root user, but most probably use the sudo command. To install software I just type apt-get install lyx to install the Lyx application. How easy is that?

I have used a command line app to send bulk email.

Probably my favorite command line feature is the ability to find a file. The GUI file managers just are not as good. Windows totally sucks at giving you the ability to find files. This method is totally dependable. You first run the command updatedb (update database) to make sure new files are included. Then type locate filename | less. Then you can use the spacebar to see the list page by page. Also, usually I never remember the complete filename, so I only include the part I am sure of.

This drifted a bit off-topic but still to the point that Chinese or Russian students raised on Linux are far more tech savvy then our generation of kids who were constrained to Windows.

The ignorance and the arrogance of Joe Biden's remarks make me nauseous.

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by CalvinV on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 10:21pm

Find files containing ...

I worked on a project involving scores of engineers, working on some millions of line of code, each one working on a portion of it and has little idea what happens in the other part but all the sub-projects are related and are all built at the same time.
So, when making a change that might affect other projects by modifying a certain symbol, I can do a search like:

find
\(-name "*.cpp" -o -name "*.c"\) -exec grep {} \; -print

That will look in the directory named
for all the C++ and C files, look in them to see if they contain the and then print out lines referencing the as well as the file names.

That will remove the unintended consequences of making the change because I can review all the consequences first.

Submitted by mhagle on Tue, 10/18/2016 - 1:45pm

Searching within documents.... fancy

I will remember this capability. Thanks!

Spend most of my time gardening and taking care of teenagers these days but you never know when it might come in handy.

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by Late Again on Sat, 10/22/2016 - 1:30am

Thank you, CalvinV.

I will definitely check that out as well.

Remembering the basic commands shouldn't be too hard; I still have DOS commands stuck in my head!

—

"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain

Submitted by Bollox Ref on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:29pm

FFS!!!

This is getting ridiculous.

—

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Submitted by luminous on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:52pm

You can't "cyber attack" the Kremlin

The Kremlin never trusted computers, and their intelligence network is still managed via messages from type writers being sent around the place via suction tubes(similar to the ones at your banks drive up). Their is no intelligence computer network, or email servers with state secrets to hack their, Best your going to get is dispatches written with 1 time use pads.

If the Kremlin could be hacked I am sure we would have already done that years ago. Well maybe, we don't have as well of developed hacker culture here, as they do their, In Russia as long as you are not hacking any of the ogliarchs property's or State operations all is basically ignored, experiment have fun whatever. In the US merely looking for or owning some of the tools is illegal, Hell in the process of seeking them out on IRC will get you/your ip on a list, merely using Tor(which is probably broken atm so dont use it) will get you listed.

Our combination of poorly written computer security laws, incompetence in law enforcement, insane copyright laws(DMCA), sue happy secretive corporate culture, utter and complete lack of any standard or enforcement of any standard related to security rules for computers in either the government or corporations in the US. You WILL never have good computer security in a two tier justice system, The guys above the law will never care to make the expense, and everyone under the law is expendable and lives always looking over their shoulder.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:51pm

Russia runs their advanced nuclear defenses the same way

…you describe the Kremlin. Completely decentralized and in constant motion beneath the thick forests that cover that vast nation. Invisible and untargeted in trucks that smoothly transform themselves into advanced missile launchers.

In such a war, Russia offers mostly civilian targets, filled with innocents. But that's how the US rolls, as the world is well aware. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, same thing.

So, last month, Russia held nationwide civil defense training involving 40 million people. The four-day exercise includes 200,000 rescue professionals and 50,000 rescue vehicles.

“Our priority during the drill is to train evacuation of the civilian population from potentially-risky areas,” Emergencies Minister Vladimir Puchkov, who oversees all civil defense in Russia, told Interfax.

The drill is meant to test coordination between federal, regional and local authorities, feasibility of contingency plans for emergencies, the state of civil defense infrastructure like shelters and emergency supply stockpiles, and other aspects of the system. Emergency services are expected to “prepare suggestions on how to improve our potential,” the minister said.

I wonder if the US is going to prepare Americans for the unintended consequences of its global provocations and acts of terror. Or are Americans regarded as throwaway people by their Elite?

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:25pm

"Throwaway people"? Do you even have to ask?

Of course that's what we peons are to the Elite. Disposable, useless eaters, life unworthy of life. So far they prefer to "let" us die off through neglect and apathy (and uncontrolled police violence). So far.

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:59pm

Sadly

This very thought has crossed my mind a lot in recent weeks. Cogs in the system does not equate to human beings to those in control. We are nothing to them.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:25pm

I thought "what about the dumb shit EU countries"

Yah, I read about those massive drills. Add to that a psychological dimension. I was watching a live stream of the Moscow March of the Immortal Regiment. The march got into the hundreds of thousands in Moscow. The march is civilians celebrating family members who fought during WWII or the Great Patriotic War. They carried pictures, uniforms, etc. And this march from what i understand started just a few years ago in some Siberian town. And has spread to all over Russia. I thought, man, we Americans think of Memorial Day as more a shopping holiday.

I don't think the Russian people want war, but war and what it did to the country is deeply ingrained in the historical memory even after 70 years. And I thought, how about the Western Europeans who also suffered would understand the lunacy of marching armed to the teeth to the borders of Russia, invoking certainly memories of the Nazi invasion. Berlin, Paris,, and London will not be immune to any war started with Russia. And yet, they along with us, seem to have no memory or understanding of what massive war will do.

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 6:03pm

Another unlearned lesson from history

Except for the limited Russo-Japanese war of 1905, Russia has not been conquered since 800 A.D. The Vikings did that and maintained control for about two centuries before being completely assimilated. Since then, Russia has never been conquered, with the minor exception noted. Napoleon encountered his final failure in Russia, losing > 700,000 soldiers. Although Russian losses during WW1 were sizable, they were not conquered by outside forces. During WW2, the Russkies actually won the war with some help by the Western Allies, although at a huge cost--which they willing to bear (by some estimates 25,000,000 soldiers and civilians).

So now we have incompetent Obama rattling his nukes and goading NATO into anti-Russian confrontation. His legacy will be gross corruption and foreign policy ineptness. Hiding Hillary will continue provoking the Bear and she is too slow to get out of the way when a big paw swings at her.

Submitted by Big Al on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 1:52pm

Seven years ago on Daily Kos.

Me: "They're (Obama and Biden) going to go after Russia, and China".
Them: That's CT, you're a troll.

We knew along time ago this stage of the New American Century was going to happen. We didn't stop it then, we can't stop it now. Not unless we go full court press on Clinton and Obama now. I don't know anybody willing to organize that.

Submitted by native on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:07pm

... except for Donald Trump,

who is anything but a man of trustworthy character.

—

native

Submitted by cloudy_skies on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 2:02pm

This is a very dangerous game that the Democrats are playing.

Are they trying to restart the Cold War with this rhetoric? I have yet to see any concrete evidence that WikiLeaks has been fueled by Russian hackers. We keep hearing "Russia this" and "Russia that," but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. At least half the politicians talking about Russian hacking have no idea how the internet works, let alone any clue what an IP address or proxy is. Forgive me if I don't take their word for it. If the Russians actually did do it, odds are that they would never be sloppy enough to leave any evidence behind that could be linked back to them.

I think it's pretty clear that this is all just a smokescreen designed to throw sand and keep everyone from focusing on the extremely damaging contents of Podesta's emails. The fact that they're willing to provoke the bear for political expediency is the absolute height of recklessness, and yet another thing that proves that Hillary is unfit for the presidency.

Submitted by Cachola on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 2:31pm

How dare you, cloudy skies?

You know their fearless leader is an expert on internet security. Also, can't she just drone them to bits? (Yes, I grow insane at the thought that she's going to be the next US president.)

—

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 3:15pm

From now on all hackers will be Russian

Until proven otherwise

Submitted by native on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:33pm

Don't laugh... that might be

the next decree from Markos Moulitsas.

—

native

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:36pm

Add that to the list that every anti-war poster is a Putin bot

Submitted by doh1304 on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 3:57pm

It's not businesses that are the problem

it's civil infrastructure. Think blackouts, think every traffic light in the country turning green at the samee time There are 100 nuclear power plants in the US, and all of them have computer controlled cooling systems. Hell, the air traffic control system is still run on Windows 3.5!

—

On to Biden since 1973

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:06pm

the ATC system

Hell, the air traffic control system is still run on Windows 3.5!

Stay on the ground, people!!

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by lotlizard on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:55pm

Modify Israeli Stuxnet code, and voilà! a Fuxnet virus. n/t

Submitted by zett on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 8:33pm

Man, am I ever glad that I

Man, am I ever glad that I decided to never get on a plane again.

Love your sig, btw.

Submitted by Song of the lark on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 7:28am

60 power plants with 100 reactors

Submitted by Not Henry Kissinger on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:05pm

Chirpy Chuck...

sounds practically giddy at the thought of a hacker war.

What he doesn't yet understand is that he's a prime target should it actually come to that.

Still, he did give the Hill Shill a fairly tough grilling on Syria: "They're winning!" says Chuck and the Hill Shill agreed.

Inspector Clouseau would have been proud.

—

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:24pm

The silver-lining

is that Hollywood will quickly put out several movies showing that we are under siege by millions of evil Russian hackers, who all laugh evilly and drive sports cars.

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:31pm

Yah, oh the possibilities

I bet one variation will be about some kid with plenty of moxy out in a rural town will have found a way to counter all Russian threats. And then the race is on for Russian agents to kidnap him with an intrepid older hacker protecting him with car chase scenes finally ending in front of the Kremlin. Oh, and they pick up a beautiful coffee barista who falls in love with the older hacker.

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 6:17pm

I would like to co-produce that flick

We could call it "Hack Attack". Tom Hanks would play the older hacker. (Alternatively, it could be Liam Neeson). The young hacker could be Zac Effron. For the barista we could cast Amy Adams (I've always liked her). And to round out the plot we could have Meryl Streep play the Barista's mom. Also the Putin-like leader could be Robert Duvall (I like his performance in "Stalin" very much).

Submitted by native on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:14pm

Y'all are making me ill.

—

native

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:18pm

Come on native, all we need is an agent to push it.

We got the plot and the casting set.

Submitted by native on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:44pm

Wouldn't take much of a push either.

—

native

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:10pm

I.D.I.O.T.

Problems like this "cyber war" is why I make repeated references to the Incredibly Dangerous Internet Of Things, I.D.I.O.T. People who own machinery tied into I.D.I.O.T. will know a large slice of Hell when the cyber wars begin.

There are some things that should not be trusted to networked computers, ever.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by Bisbonian on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:43pm

The beer fridge

should be at the top of the list!

—

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 11:26pm

Definitely keep THAT old-school conventional!

The beer fridge should be at the top of the list!

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by GreatLakeSailor on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 8:04pm

Yep. From Ars...

Brace yourselves—source code powering potent IoT DDoSes just went public | Ars Technica
http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/10/brace-yourselves-source-code-pow...

—

Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.

Submitted by AnotherPeasant on Mon, 10/17/2016 - 4:07am

What? Like national elections and primaries?

Good thing that the folks over at The Orange Satan have clued us in that it's all "CT', thanatokephaloides. I think that stands for Completely Thermonuclear, but I'm not sure.

—

"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

Submitted by blue drop on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:28pm

if they are serious...

...why announce it?

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:29pm

Hillary ups the rhetoric

terrorists???

Hillary Clinton’s advisers are ramping up attacks on WikiLeaks and the Russian government over a damaging email hack, lashing out at Donald Trump and the media for failing to treat the breach as a threat to national security.
The Clinton campaign gathered its top national security advisers for a blistering conference call with reporters on Friday, framing the email dump as a provocative cyber-attack by foreign adversaries with ties to terror groups.

The advisers described the hacks as unprecedented interference in the U.S. election that threatens the nation’s sovereignty, and warned there would be “consequences” for the hackers and potentially the “Russian state actors” supporting them.

The campaign lashed out at Trump, arguing he is encouraging the behavior. They questioned whether he and his advisers, driven by their own foreign business interests, have conspired to aid the Russians.

And Clinton’s allies fumed at the media’s coverage of the leaked emails, saying the focus has been on trivial political minutia rather than the national security implications.

“I’m not saying this as a Democrat or a Republican. I’m not saying this as someone who has endorsed Hillary Clinton. I’m saying this as someone who cares deeply about our national security,” said former CIA acting director Mike Morell. “I’m simply enraged by these Russian hacks.”

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 6:10pm

Omg, that propaganda is over the top.

The rhetoric in that statement is ridiculous because not one person from the media or elsewhere has asked for proof that Russia is interfering with our election. Nor has anyone provided any.
But people are buying into it as usual.
But they don't care that our government has not only interfered in other countries elections but has removed countless elected governments and installed puppet dictators.
The hubris, it burns.
What does a blistering conference call with reporters even mean?

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:51pm

Even WAPO wonders why the US is withholding all the juicy

…evidence of this "Russian Attack On America™. "Why not throw the people some kind of bone or fragment of proof?" the Post wonders. Because, you know, people are starting to ask questions. Regular people.

The fact is, people seem awfully reluctant to buy into this new boogyman. You've got top Neocons coming out of their lairs at Defense, State Department, and Intelligence to sell this crazy narrative about Russian hacking and election tampering — offering no proof or motive or explanation of how it works. That's bad enough.

But when the political operative arrives to push a preposterous story about Putin and Trump in cahoots to throw the election, it's just too much. For some, the entire narrative suddenly flips and the ridiculousness is exposed. If this Russia kabuki backfires like that, it could pull the rug out from under Hillary.

I think people are tired of looking gullible, after the fact. There is cynicism in the air.

Submitted by GreatLakeSailor on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 8:50pm

Why?

Because the last time the administration fabricated evidence - "conclusively" attributing the Syrian gas attack to Assad - they looked like scheming fucking fools.

This time they're gonna gitteright!

—

Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 9:26pm

Looking back, it was Putin who pulled Obama's fat out of the

…fire. Pretty much everyone including the UN inspectors knew it was a homemade false flag bomb. But Obama had drawn this "red line" much to the glee of the Neocons. There were calls for Obama to commence bombing and murdering the Syrians.

The next thing you know, the Russians are loading Assad's own arsenal on a ship and sailing it out of there. Taking the issue off the table. Putin had arranged a deal to prevent a boodbath assassination.

I wonder why Americans think the US is destroying Assad and Syria. The pretend rebels? Maybe they have him confused with someone else.

I wonder why Americans hate Putin. What do they think he did?

Submitted by Bisbonian on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 9:28pm

Russia...

Bad!

—

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Submitted by GreatLakeSailor on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 10:13pm

Excellent essay about that...

When Putin Bailed Out Obama
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/08/31/when-putin-bailed-out-obama/

—

Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.

Submitted by lotlizard on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 4:41am

The biggest maker of “extraordinary claims” with no evidence

— not even convincing common garden-variety evidence, let alone “extraordinary evidence” — is the government itself.

Lots of people including me have been saying that for years.

Submitted by Ellen North on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 7:44pm

Just imagine President

Just imagine President Hillary, backed by all levels of corrupt government including the Justice department, making bizarre accusations aimed at people she's decided to have a grudge against/dispose of. Although I expect that you already have imagined this and will already not have been sleeping well anyway...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Not Henry Kissinger on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 6:38pm

All these security advisors...

The Clinton campaign gathered its top national security advisers for a blistering conference call with reporters on Friday, framing the email dump as a provocative cyber-attack by foreign adversaries with ties to terror groups.

and not one knows how to lock down an email system.

—

Submitted by native on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 7:35pm

Former CIA acting director Mike Morell

has been a shameless Hillary shill for years. He's another ambitious DC careerist riding her coat tails, albeit a particularly vicious one.

Since November 2013, he has been a Senior Counselor to Beacon Global Strategies LLC. He is a proponent of the CIA's use of enhanced interrogation techniques which many consider to be torture, and is also a proponent of the CIA's targeted killings by drones.

A September 2013 article in Defense News, describes Beacon Global Strategies as unique for a Washington consulting firm because of its partners' intent to eventually return to government. The article noted that "Part of the confidence in future public service may stem from a combination of significant titles and relative youth, paired with the fact that most of the founders of the firm have ties to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who may be a presidential favorite heading into the 2016 election if she decides to run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Morell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon_Global_Strategies

—

native

Submitted by FuturePassed on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 8:57pm

"I'm simply enraged."

I'm simply overjoyed. I like to think of it as Radio Free Europe--in reverse.

After all we did for them it's the least they can do.

Submitted by Ellen North on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 7:51pm

...Hillary Clinton’s advisers

...Hillary Clinton’s advisers are ramping up attacks on WikiLeaks and the Russian government over a damaging email hack, lashing out at Donald Trump and the media for failing to treat the breach as a threat to national security. ...

Funny, we've been doing the same, at least to the corporate media, since WikiLeaks takes this as seriously as we do - Hillary posed and poses a grave risk to US national security and her only concern has been to to deny, lie, try to cover it up and distract from it by trying to trigger Mutual Assured Destruction and the immediate end of life on the planet.

Good to hear that Hillary's advisors are taking this seriously and advising her to 'fess up and take her prison time like a woman! ...oh, wait...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 4:46pm

Where Is Republican Leadership As Trump Engages In Sedition?

That's the title of the diary at the top of the rec'd list on TOP.

What McCarthyite tactic will they embrace next?

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:10pm

They could channel the spirit of Roy Cohen

That would be a true demonstration of TOP's inverted sense of Democracy.

Submitted by lotlizard on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 6:15pm

Spelling: Roy Cohn

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/science/aids/080386sci-aids...

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 6:20pm

Roy Cohn! Ken Bone. Franchot Tone.

What's the diff? What we need is another Joseph Welch.

Submitted by Crimson Buddha on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:13pm

Remember how Trump is a danger to democracy

because he said he was going to throw his political rival in jail during the first debate? How much do you want to bet that Clinton is the one who will throw Trump in jail if she wins?

Submitted by lotlizard on Sun, 10/16/2016 - 5:23am

Accuse your opponents of what you yourself are doing

That was always the Dubya–Cheney–Karl Rove modus operandi, which, unsurprisingly in view of their merger with Republican neocons, the Democrats have now adopted, lock, stock, and barrel.

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:43pm

Hillary dems didn't mind the seditious cheating of Sanders

Didn't the cheating of Sanders undermine our electoral process?

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 5:48pm

Yes!

The cheating of Sanders and the American people is far more seditious than someone releasing internal emails of the Clinton campaign. This whole Russian thing is a deflection away from the corrupt Clinton campaign.

It is weird how nothing was done or even talked about when there were so many tell tale signs that the primaries were being rigged in various ways, all of which were to the benefit of Clinton. But when the DNC and the Clinton campaign gets hacked...then the release of emails suddenly becomes a national security issue and a threat to "democracy"?

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Russia vows to "respond" to cyber attacks

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