Why President Trump wouldn't be the end of the world
It's common in liberal circles these days to imagine the absolute worst possible outcome from Trump winning, and then assume that their nightmare is based on verifiable facts. When in fact it is based on conjecture, with a heavy dose of fear-based prejudice.
That's not to say Trump isn't an absolutely awful person, who would make possibly the worst president we've ever had, but that is only a educated guess.
I could be wrong. President Trump might just be a normal, bad president, like we've come to know.
I don't pretend to know the future, but it's now common for liberals to claim they do.
In fact, just doubting the validity of some liberal nightmare scenario on TOP will get you flamed. In much the same way that doubting the danger of Saddam in 2002 would incur accusations of treason in Republican circles. Hyperbolic doomsday predictions are now accepted as facts in the liberal echo chamber. The more hyperbolic the nightmare, the more credibility it is given.
Critical thinking is being trumped by fear.
It's now common to summon the specter of Hitler when talking about President Trump, when it fact Silvio Berlusconi is a better comparison.
His promises to sell off his personal assets to avoid conflicts of interest were never fulfilled, which sparked controversy throughout his terms in office. Berlusconi is a controversial figure in modern Italian politics: his tenure as Prime Minister was racked with scandalous sex affairs and poor judgement and decision-making.
According to journalists Marco Travaglio and Enzo Biagi, Berlusconi entered politics to save his companies from bankruptcy and himself from convictions
Doesn't that sound familiar? It does to me.
It's bad. It's embarrassing, but it's not scary.
Let's look at the other end of the spectrum. Why isn't Trump the new Hitler? For that, I refer to this article.
Gupta characterizes Trump’s campaign — correctly — as a “proto fascist” movement, meaning embryonic fascism, which may or may not develop into a fetus, let alone a baby. Proto-fascism has the DNA necessary to develop into a fully developed fascist movement, but without organizational sustenance and ideal conditions, the embryo withers.
While Gupta is right to warn of the threat, he overstates its imminence. A Trump presidency would feed the fascistic fetus in some ways while likely poisoning it in others.
A comparison of Trump’s campaign to the Nazi movement is helpful to illustrate. German fascism was a genuine, organized mass movement, with the Nazi party becoming the biggest political party in Germany. The party also had a massive paramilitary wing, the “Brownshirts,” which at its height had three million well-organized troops.
When Hitler came into state power, he brought with him his personal army, a massive political party with its own distinct, powerful ideology.
Trump doesn’t even have his own party, let alone a real movement (an electoral campaign is not a movement). His ideas are rudimentary and inconsistent. Because of him the Republicans are deeply split. Trump joined the Republicans out of weakness, not strength, and weakened the Republicans in the process.
Trump has no unified message or ideology. Ego has its place in fascism, but not without a framework around it.
The conditions also have no comparison.
The establishment, however, doesn’t arbitrarily dabble with fascism; they use it only when necessary, since engaging with fascism causes political and economic disruption, making profits less predictable.
Historically, a large section of the establishment opens its arms to real fascism when they literally fear for their life. Fascism is the “nuclear option” for capitalists, who use the far-right ideology to prevent the Left from taking power, so that capitalism can be preserved, and with it the large profits for the wealthy...
The German establishment needed Hitler to save capitalism, which was in imminent danger of being overthrown by the millions-strong and growing Socialist and Communist movements, led by mass organized parties.
The balance of power between the establishment and the working class was nearly even. Consequently, the establishment could not rule effectively. Protests were numerous, employers were under attack with strikes, and pro-capitalist reforms could not be implemented without risking insurrection.
Hitler and the German establishment were in total agreement that the Socialists, Communists and the trade union movement were too powerful, and had to be crushed. The first inhabitants of the concentration camps were leaders of the Left.
The situation in the U.S. is nowhere near 1930’s Germany. The U.S. establishment doesn’t yet need Brownshirts to save capitalism. Yes, widening inequality is an inherent and growing threat to U.S. capitalism, but a new Hitler isn’t yet required to smash the Left. This dynamic is ultimately what will prevent a President Trump from being too large a threat in the immediate future.
Since liberals have decided to ignore class, they've also forgotten that fear of communism was the primary and secondary reasons for the rise of fascism, not racism.
Deciding to ignore class is also the reason why liberals are clueless when it comes to understanding Trump's popularity.
On the other hand, there could be silver-lining from Trump winning.
If Trump becomes president, the various social movements — labor, peace, immigration, women, LGBT, Black Lives — will be given free reign to fight back by the Democrat-affiliated media and politicians, who will all discover the backbones they lost while Obama was in office. Good media examples are Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, who were brave pit bulls against Bush but toothless puppies under Obama.
In this sense, a Republican president can open space for the Left, even as they attempt to implement policies against it, while Democratic presidents shut off political space. Under Obama, protests were discouraged. Challenging politicians with bold demands was prohibited as the working class was told to defend Democrats from the right wing. Politics was stifled.
Comments
It does.
For my boyfriend, it basically has. His only chance is finding a situation where he can sit face-to-face with a person with power to hire who is willing to look away from the employment gap long enough to assess him as an individual.
He graduated from college in August 2008. In Sept 2008, the world fell apart. There were no jobs for a year or more. By which time he was already "long-term unemployed."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Effing horrible. I wish him, and you, all the best. What sort
of political/economic system intentionally fails to employ well qualified and steady workers? It's an individual tragedy and a societal waste.
(57,000 factories shuttered here and the jobs moved elsewhere.)
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
A murderous one.
Or, alternately, a suicidal one, if the environmental side of things is any indication.
Thank you for your well-wishes and sympathy--it's been so long since we've gotten a response of that kind.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It's a society, in my view, that if you're useful to Big Capital
you can have a job at management's forebearance and tolerance. The minute you are in the way of an extra bit of profit, you're gone.
With a strong union, and my family consisted of Longshoremen, electrical workers, Maritime union, steamfitters, management could not arbitrarily fire you. You worked under a contract and you had rights. Capitalism considers this interference with managements' prerogatives and has been successful in limiting, and often ending, workplace democracy. I think it's that simple: Anything, or anyone, in the way of profit is to be kicked down and kept out of the system.
You're welcome about the comments. I believe in the common good and solidarity and people helping people.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
double post
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
i listen
very carefully to what he says, and what his supporters say.
He is a loser, and a hater, a racist, and a xenophobe, living in fear of the world as it is, and as it is becoming. Same is true of his supporters. He, and they, are the last throes of the white people. The white people, they are over. And they know it. It makes them Scared. It shouldn't. But it does.
You didn't have the time, to read the link, before you responded. So I'd submit that it is you, who are about just believing, what it is you want to believe. ; )
White people are over.
Could you suggest a convenient spot where I can slash my throat? Would you like a video?
Your over generalizations about white people are as troubling as the generalizations some Trump supporters make about "Black" people and Mexican people and followers of Islam.
Are the white people supporting Hillary "over"?
I think your style of identity politics would receive a better welcome at TOP.
Snark
If your comments are snark I apologize.
i think
white identity politics are stupid and boring. As is your comparison of my observations to the droolings of the people of The Hairball. As is your suggestion I skedaddle off to Daily Kos.
Identity politics
I think all identity politics is stupid and boring, or would be if it wasn't used as a tool by both conservatives and neoliberals to drive a wedge between people who have important interests, such as food, shelter, and medical care in common.
People are complicated. They don't fit well into the stereotypes you construct.
i don't
construct stereotypes. I know that white people, they pillaged the entire planet, and for 500 years. They upended, everything. And now they weep and cry and drool and sob. Sucking, as an example, here, currently, in the US, their microknob, of a Hairball. Behind their white identity poiltics. But I know, that they will be cured. When, they become, brown.
Hillary ran for President twice and ran a racist campaign twice.
The first time she pandered to white people and her campaign dog whistled Obama for months before she finally did it herself. The second time, she pandered to African Americans and dog whistled about Jews and atheism. That she controls her mouth (somewhat) better than Donald, after being in politics since age 13 (according to her), makes her no less bigoted than he is. And you don't fight bigotry by voting for the lesser bigot.
Last time I looked Hillary was white.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
last time i looked,
the piece to which I linked renders that comment irrelevant.
Vox, really?
Seems like Vox has been in the $hillary bag for a long time.
Well, look whose company it was:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_Media
and who funds it. Knowing those things, Vox has a tendency to sound to me basically like Bernie does these days:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04]
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
that's right—
I forgot.
This is the site where, currently, the top-voted site story, is one that approvingly cites to projectile-vomit streaming from the mouths of the corrupt criminal racist crackpot fabricators Jerome Corsi and Joseph diGenova.
And then wants to claim. Vox. Is "untrustworthy."
You people. Really. Are. Sad. ; )
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOP6R3JvNHg]
It's all the same thing--
no new tale to tell.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo3R3LBjDek]
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
not a new tale
but a true tale.
People here. As many rocks in their heads. As in the heads. Of the people. On Daily Kos.
Good catch. n/t
Wow
Take a hike, racist.
having a good time, here, laughing,
waiting for JtC, to fairly apply, his alleged proscription, against site members, calling other site members, racists.
Let's see. I'm in Eastern Time, and it's 7:37 in the morning.
on the West Coast, it's 4:37.
I don't know where JtC lives, but I think maybe he can have a cup of coffee before he deals with this, however he intends to deal with it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
the fuck
called me a racist at 6:20 p.m. Eastern time. I don't think JtC was then asleep. I for sure know joe wasn't. Since he was posting at 10:08 p.m. Eastern.
& I always, and for sure, know, that when I stray out of line, I hear about it, and real damn quick. ; )
But, you know, I don't really care. It's just more of the same. Here. So. Wearying.
It says 12:20 a.m. on my screen.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
still laughing and laughing,
at 10:50 a.m. EST, the morning after, waiting for JtC, or joe, to come in, with suitably furrowed brow, to at least tut-tut, the dimwit dimbulb fuck, calling me a racist.
I give them till noon. Their sleepy time. Then I figure it's open season. For me. To call anybody I damn well please, here. With, or without, reason. A racist.
Hecate...
what the fuck is with you, you think I find that funny? Check yourself Bub.
I think Hecate jumped the shark a while back
Hec's posts used to be bizarre but funny - now they're bizarre, mean-spirited, and not funny at all.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Puts on moderator hat
We have one rule here and that is do not be an ass which means we do not want our members to engage in personal insults. It is far better to make your arguments without name calling. Thanks.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
OK?
And are there rules against blatant bigotry? Would stating the "black people are over" and "black people ruined the world" be welcome on this site? If not, then maybe I'm not the problem here.
calm down
I was simply reminding you refrain from name calling of another member. You are welcome to argue your points on the issues. We try to be as open as possible on the issues. If you are having a problem with content, feel free to contact us via the Contact us button or via pm. Okay?
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Hey Boberfett..
cut the personal attacks or you'll take a hike.
We are all over.
And I'm too busy being scared of global ecological collapse and the potential for a hot war between superpowers to have time to be afraid of much else.
Some people want to occupy the time remaining by attacking each other for the color of their skin, or what language they speak, or what God they worship.
That's not my response to being put under a global death sentence--I can think of about 1000 things that I'd rather do. And anyway, I'm too proud to vent my hatred on anyone except those most responsible for this farcical murder show.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
i'm sorry
you're scared.
So sad.
Jeez Louise
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Seriously?
The last throes of the white people? Could you be more racist?
Any time you make a comment regarding race, replace the races with a different one and then think again about whether you should say it out loud, or if you're better off keeping your opinion to yourself.
anyone
who thinks "any time you make a comment regarding race, [you can] replace the races [sic] with a different one," is utterly without clue, regarding race and racism.
Redefining words
Are you one of these people redefining terms such as "racism" to ensure that only white people can be racist?
Good Vox article
Thanks for the link, hecate. It's pretty hard to refute the findings in that article. For all the Trump supporter's economic talk, you start to wonder whether it's just whitewash -- and whether a small amount of solvent thrown on it would reveal the true colors.
With the most rabid Trumpites, I often sniff the odor of racism. I'm around some Trump supporters; they know I detest Hillary Clinton. Recently, I've noticed them letting their guard down a mite with me. The backstage racism is there in spades.
On the contrary, I think the core is economic anxiety; and the
corporate-owned media have succeeded in turning that anxiety away from its true source - the wealthy 1% - and stoking racism in place of class warfare, blaming immigrants for "taking our jobs," ignoring the fact that they couldn't take the jobs if they weren't getting paid sub-minimum wages by employers so greedy that breaking the law to exploit the disenfranchised is their go-to strategy.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
you can
think what you want. However, as that piece indicates, the evidence is otherwise, and all over the white-people world.
The correlation between economic anxiety and the activation
of white racism is pretty well-established, so this seems like a false dichotomy to me.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
it doesn't matter
what it seems like to you. You are not in Reality. Go read the piece. It doesn't establish what you want it to. But that's just too bad.
Interesting Graph. But No Correlation?
Looks to me like correlation to deprivation. As you go up the deprivation chart, you have higher number of dots. Here it is with a line added to demonstrate:
That looks like correlation to me.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
looks to me
like you haven't read the piece; that the supreme correlation, is the bedwetting white people, pissing their pants, about brown people.
Brexit voters were old pants-wetting stumblebum stupid-as-shit dumb-fuck in-the-way white retrovert racist fucks.
And, such people, they are over.
And, no one on the continent, cares about England. Which has always thought itself better than, superior to, the continent.
For centuries, England's attitude towards the continent, was, let's you and you fight.
But the continent, it is wise to that, now.
Scotland will break off from England, now, and so will the six northern counties of Ireland. Both having voted huge, to remain. Because, for one, they received human-rights protections, under the EU, far more, than they ever received from England.
England, now, can wank itself off, in its pants. Which is, always, what it has been, best, at.
While the world, now, at long last, it is moving on.
This Is a Pleasant Tone. I'm So Glad I Responded. nt
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Hecate...
you know better than this:
That's crossing the line of the general into the personal. Cut the personal out.
no it isn't
People are spewing all over this subthread without ever having read the linked piece. They, are, therefore, not in the Real. Not that they should have had to read that piece, to become Real. But I know there are basically no brown people on this site, and so, it is very hard, for the white people here, some of them, to understand, apprehend, what life is really like, outside, their little, white, safe, cocooon.
And as for that knuckledragging no-brain, who twice called me a racist, that's just "a personal attack"?
Weak.
You considered it something quite a bit stronger than that. Back in the day. When it was I, who was wielding, the R word. And never, did I wield it, so directly.
Oh well. Same. As it ever was. Some animals. Are more equal. Than others.
I see a lot of spewing...
across this thread, including your own, of course you don't view it as spew yourself, do you?
You're pushing it, dude.
Of course it is
Some people just don't want you to see it that way, though. Too bad for them...
Perhaps I should have emphasized that I meant
across history.
Basically, if you want to rev up the most hateful racism against people of color, drive white people further into poverty and then tell them, over and over, that Black people are to blame. Or Brown people of any ethnicity.
That's been a primary talking point of the Trump campaign, it's been used over and over again since the 80s counter-revolution, and it was very popular in Hitler's Germany.
This does not imply "Poor white people, they're really the victims here." It means "People are fucking stupid and go along with the man when he offers them a convenient scapegoat. And sometimes the Man increases the pain on purpose so he can put the scapegoating into high gear."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
That Piece Does Not Explain the Recent Authoritarian Bent
of the Center Left.
Does it?
Seems to me that Democrats, as illustrated by dKos' transition to Little Orange footballs, are hopping on the same authoritarian bandwagon.
And there was a similar rightward lurch across Europe in the mid-00s.
I'm not sure it's all racism and white fragility.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
OK. Read It. Compelling Stuff.
I see a major problem with the base premise though.
It examines economics vs race but leaves the powder keg of foreign relations and existential threat completely out of the picture.
I don't know how you could look at Eastern Europe in the 40s without the existential threat of WWII.
I don't know how you can look at the early/mid 00s without the existential threat of "American Peace" foreign policy and terrorism.
I don't know how you can look at the present without Global Warming, Russia/American relations, and perpetual war.
From the mid 00s until about 2014, you had a Nobel Peace Prize winning President drawing down American intervention and American belligerent foreign policy and psyops. You had a bit of a lull in Global Warming alarmism.
Those things popped back up, not too long ago, 2013-2014? Now we've got America in Ukraine, developing usable nukes, and ridiculous GW data and palpable experiences.
This piece, repeatedly, neglects or glosses over the classical condition of an existential threat. It's like there are no global issues but money and race.
That is clearly not the case in the 40s, the 60s, the early-mid 00s, and the the last few years.
I do think that it makes a compelling case that reduced power of the dominant demographic is in play, but it completely ignores the classical condition of existential threats experienced by masses of people.
This classical condition of existential threat is a major player in group dynamics. It limits and reduces the potential of a rational response. Add to this classically conditioned state a real or perceived non-response, or business as usual, by government, you are going to get an irrational, fight or flight, responses.
If there were a real global push to combat AGW, I think we might have a different situation.
And, one quote jumped out at me:
Says who?
How about not bombing people in the ME? A removal of forward deployed Western troops and a Marshall Plan for the ME would be a good start, wouldn't it?
I think what the author means is that Big Corporate & the Oligarchs won't allow such a plan, same as with Cheap Labor trade deals, and AGW.
Great article, and certainly food for thought, but I don't find it to be as holistic or as sound as you think it is, hecate.
Peace~
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I keep returning to this comment, k9disk
For me, your's is a really insightful analysis. Not so much about the topic but about the structure of the data. I deal with charts a lot, and mostly in two dimensions, where trends and correlations are easy to see, across time and space. Easy to manipulate, too.
But when measuring meaning or probability, we really need more than an x and y axis, which is too flat for rendering human affairs. We need a z axis, as well, to pull the data into a three dimensional construct that shows key dynamic "influencers" that are also cycling across the examined time or space. This third dimension can add context and reveal possible stressors and accelerants. The additional data can be either environmental or political, or another measurable realms, like the emergence of disruptive technologies or progressive resource scarcity
The VOX piece is well done as far as it can go, but the dimensional axis is deliberately omitted to fix the data and narrative. I say "deliberate" because I can see what (conveniently) isn't there in the essay. Nuance and dimension. The omission is not an accident. It's a method. It forces a radical binary view to carry its flat narrative of cause and effect. That never works in analyzing human affairs, unless it is used for propaganda purposes.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Thanks, Pluto. I Think Your Read of My Comment Explains
my point and brings to light an important aspect to the analysis that bugged me: the binary thing.
I didn't get to the exact words, but that was what didn't ring true. Social science is not binary.
Binary information and feedback is highly manipulative. It's what I do with my dogs. You can have this awesome thing or you can have nothing; it's your choice. They don't want to do what I want at first, but eventually they LOVE to do what I want them to. After enough conditioning, They can't imagine doing anything else.
My business depends on that being no choice at all. TINA to my desires. It's couched in "let the dog choose" and friendly stuff, but it's rank manipulation, and when it's done in all facets of life it ceases to be positive training and becomes compulsion. Regardless of whether or not you choose it.
When this happens in discourse red lights flash and alarm bells go off: I'm being manipulated. It's happening more and more frequently in our society, and it's starting to impact my wellbeing. I'm feeling gaslighted on all fronts in political discourse.
This piece, and hecate's response really triggered me. I mean, there was solid correlation in the chart and it was plainly stated by the author of the Vox piece that there was none. When that was questioned, hecate went off. We can read charts, you know, unless we "choose" not to.
After reading your comment, I do believe it is propaganda. And it is good shit.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
This article, you link to,
should be required reading for anyone wanting to reply to your comment or this essay; and I haven't even finished reading it yet.
[video:https://youtu.be/mak5vvTGdM0]
This could be a stand alone essay!
Hecate, that article you shared was incredible and makes me feel like I have a lot to learn. Would you consider a whole essay on this? Because as the article says, Trumpism is bigger than Trump. The media has trivialized Donald Trump, and focused on such superficial stuff about him/his campaign/his family when there is much deeper cultural change underfoot...a much bigger global backlash against change and sharing power with non white groups that nobody wants to talk about other than the social scientists.
on the eve
of The Hairball's electoral destruction, I will write it.
And it will be called:
The Jewish people in Lithuania,
they were not brown. Ukrainians hate Russians. Russians hate Poles. Which are brown ? How to explain Rwanda or Shia/Sunni resentment? Identity Politics is easy but not always reliable. I think privilege and resentment are better understood as economic phenomena. I know, that's "reductionism" but I still think it's more reliable.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Kingston Trio, "The Merry Minuet", 1959
Or, The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same.
They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much!!
But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud
For man's been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud
And we know for certain that some lovely day
Someone will set the spark off
And we will all be blown away!!
They're rioting in Africa
There's strife in Iran
What nature doesn't do to us
Will be done by our fellow man....
Songwriter
SHELDON HARNICK
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Like this essay a lot.
Jeeze the pumped up fear of fascism is insane. I agree gjohnsit and I find the Clintonian 'New Democrat's' way more fascistic then Trump. Trump may have rag tag gun toting tea bagger types as followers but he does not have the current officail USA version of Brownshirt's, der homeland security, the armed enforcers we call police armed by the state killing and incarcerating indefinitely black people, poor people and brown here and globally.
Oh yeah and then there are the treasonous resister's like whistle blowers, protestors who need to be droned. Any enemy of the state anywhere globally who resists this global transnational fascistic empire's interest's I'd say the NSA gives the Stasi gives a good run for it's money. None of these assholes are Hitler. The circumstances and history of each batch of nasty ass 'fascist' types who get power and claim inevitability by praying on the worst aspects of the human psyche differs. I know it when I see it and the current by-partisan government of the USA,USA, USA, look to me to be a major threat to the world no matter what name you call it.
I go with Trump as a lesser more palatable manageable evil. He is either a spanner in the works or a ringer to scare the crap out of any one with democratic longings. He's the wild card, the joker in the pack. Or is he? These days I kind of think that he is playing Obama's role in reverse a foil so scary that we will all consent to giving consent The Mad bomber. At the least it will be entertaining to see how they run on both sides of the aisle.
Yeah right Trumps a a lunatic but then again what is The Mad Bomber? A more effective crazy woman, a psycho killer who as SoS showed us what she's about. A figurehead and enforcer a major facilitator for the current owners of the world. Neither of these candidates are Hitler or Attila the Hun or Vlad the Impalor.They have their own unique place in history. Hillary kind of looks like Catherine the Great or maybe Margret Thacher who will implement global wars that make the Falklands look like what they were. Grenada comes to mind. what were dealing with doesn't hold a candle to The Iron Lady's and Rayguns reign.
As for the Silvio Berlusconi comparison the only thing that's off is that the Italian's do not have the worlds largest military killing machine at the disposal of the corporate crooks evil fingertips.
I think he's working with her.
I'm working myself up to make a plea to people not to vote for him--and I really, really hate doing that; I try never to tell anybody who to vote for.
This is driving me crazy, though, because I see good people trying to vote against someone they hate--and they end up voting for her fucking BFF who's pretending to fight her so she won't have to see any real opposition.
Didn't we have enough of this with Obama? This is the dumber version.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Trump reminds me of Lyndon Johnson
Johnson was bluff, pragmatic, a bit of a bully and an asshole who really liked putting the fear of god into people. He was a racist who nonetheless did a massive amount to strengthen race relations and give civil rights to POC. He'd say shitty things and he was a son of a bitch and a narcissist and driven and could be a total jerk to anyone who pissed him off. And yet he managed to put a shit ton of very sound legislation into law and did millions a lot of good in spite of it.
I don't think Trump is worthy to shine LBJ's loafers but I can see the appeal he has--if he had a higher IQ and some grasp of, well, anything he'd likely make a good president. Mostly because narcissists need to be loved and worshipped and being the magnanimous daddy is a great way to get that ego boost so a narcissist will shower you with all kinds of compliments and presents and love--but if you aren't grateful enough they'll get their attention by making you absolutely miserable until you beg them to stop. Thing is though, that once you figure out what they need and make sure they get it you can go your way undisturbed by them in the least. The'll strut and preen and sure, that's annoying to watch but much better that than some fucking Gollum clone holed up in a cave obsessing how they're gonna make you pay for that wisecrack you made fifty years ago. Just sayin'.
"Nothing's wrong, son, look at the news!" -- Firesign Theater
What made Hitler dangerous
was that he was armed to the teeth.
Churchill, in The Gathering Storm, chronicles German rearmament as a direct result of U.S. loans and industrial development.
Hitler was a nobody. U.S. banks and industrial leaders made him a threat to the world.
Jennifer Lawrence
Seriously, why would anyone care what Jennifer Lawrence thinks?
I finally decided
that was snark. I could be wrong, of course, but that's how I took it
I'm telling you, the great modern thinkers are
from Kentucky.
See Thomas Merton. And Wendell Berry. And now Jennifer Lawrence. George Clooney. And Elena Carlena.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
For the past 8 years, we've heard Obama is not a king. If
elected, Trump will not be one, either.
Barack Obama
is a captive of the CIA/Military Industrial Complex, which is fascist. This cadre runs our federal government and has since World War II.
Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and/or their running mates would also be captives of this untouchable cartel. The only president who dared to stand up to them, and who if fact removed the key fascist operative, Allen Dulles, from his position as CIA director, was killed shortly thereafter. This is the legacy of Allen Dulles, of industrial treason, and of fascism in our government. Simply put, it is big oil married to psychopathic killers.
With you on Dulles & the CIA--though there are other
big players that you don't mention--but what on earth makes you think Clinton and Trump would be captives? They're not captives, they're mid-level managers for the cartel. Marketing division.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Clinton certainly is, but I'm not sure
about Trump. He seems to have alienated most of the key power-brokers. I don't think anyone is very sure about Trump.
native
Captive?
Obama started auditioning for admission to the CIA/Military Industrial Complex while he was in college. He's been proving his loyalty ever since. Why do you think the financial and pharmaceutical industries contributed more to Obama than to Clinton, the junior senator from Wall Street, or even McCain.
He isn't a captive. He supervises the prison guards.
This. 1000x this...
What has been so difficult in this election is watching friends, one by one, get sucked down the rabbit hole in exactly this way. It's exhausting. I have permanent dents in my head from banging it against walls. I may never be the same.
Thank you for putting into words what I've been silently screaming in my head.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I think Trump is working with Hillary
like a pro wrestling heel, he's trying to create credibility for the face/good guy he's fighting. But it's hard, because Hillary is a terrible face. She's awful at playing the good guy.
I don't think there will be any real difference if Trump gets in, except that there might be more pushback against him in Congress--they would want to keep distinguishing themselves from Trump--and that Trump would have four years to Hillary's guaranteed eight.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The one place I'm unsure about all this
is in foreign policy. Not sure Trump would be as hideous as Hill.
And, of course, in the reaction of the white racists who support Trump, which will be much worse if Hillary gets in.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
PTSD
After his comments yesterday regarding veterans and PTSD I'd say that Trump should never be allowed near the Presidency. Obviously if you think he wouldn't be that bad then talk to someone like me who watched her brother destroyed by PTSD from Vietnam and had to bury him young because he never got over the horror. He won the Silver Star and was no coward.
A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world. Oscar Wilde
Trump is a loose cannon
He's shown time and again that the only thing that matters is his self-image, his own bank account, the woman who's on his arm. Trump might do all the things he says he will do, or... he might tow the 'publican line after taking office. It all depends on the calculus in his own mind. If he manages to win, it's likely the 'publicans will also control both houses of Congress and he might choose to try to govern like a garden variety conservative or Teabag/douchebag 'publican with occasional spasms of Donald being the Donald. So we could expect tax cuts for the rich (and a tax hike for everyone else), an attempt at repealing Obamacare, confrontation with Iran after repudiating the nuclear deal, reversing Dodd-Frank, and, of course, you have the vacancy on the Supreme Court and likely 2 other vacancies that could cement a conservative majority on the Court for another generation. Goodbye abortion rights, LGBT rights, civil rights and hello "religious freedom" for the Christian right.
Don't be deceived on the trade issue: the reason that TPP is dead in Congress right now is that the 'publicans don't want to give Obama another feather in his cap. That is a good thing, but if Trump becomes President and the 'publicans control the Congress, the TPP will be reintroduced and ratified. That's what their sponsors want. And Trump will go along.
Trump's supporters are delusional if they think he will deliver on any of his promises. It's in his nature to make promises and then break them. He is a demagogue who will say literally anything to get elected. If he becomes President, establishment 'publicans from Pence on down will be his minders to make sure he doesn't stray from the party line.
For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to everyone that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still.
John Maynard Keynes, 1930
Yes, and Hillary is a tightly wound neocon.
They are both psychopaths. He can't control his mouth. She has been in politics since the age of 13, yet still says and does horrible racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic things. Hillary's supporters, too, are delusional if they believe that will deliver on any of her promises, at least the promises that benefit the 99%. As First Lady, she couldn't get Democrats to go along with Billarycare, even though her husband was POTUS and head of the Democratic Party at the time. As Senator, she did not write a single substantive bill that became law, not a one. SCHIP, for which she somehow usurps credit was a joint effort of Kennedy and Hatch. http://caucus99percent.com/content/which-hillary-potus-ads-have-you-been...
Not to mention that the 99% just ain't her jam.
That is the choice the duopoly has given us. Anything that cuts against the duopoly is good.
#JillNotHill.
I agree completely with this part:
But I'm not so sure about this:
I think it's entirely possible that he would not be so easily managed. But then again, trying to predict Trump may be a fool's errand.
native
We're going to end up with a Republican president at some point.
It's an inevitable eventuality with our two party system. One party will not be able to hold on to the presidency forever. Given that, who's to say that someone even worse than Trump might not come along in the next four years and challenge Hillary when she is at her weakest? When will we ever have an "acceptable" Republican in the race? Never, that's when.
Frankly, I don't see a crushing defeat for Hillary as a Trump victory. I see it as the only chance the Left has to either a) take back the Democratic Party, or b) weaken the Democrats enough for the Greens or another third party to be viable alternative in 2020.
If we're going to have to deal with a Republican president at some point and the Right is only getting crazier, why not just get it over with? The longer we delay the inevitable and kick the can down the road, the more we cement corporatist control over the government and weaken our own ability to enact real political reform.
Really????? Gobsmacked
that someone whose work has earned my interest and respect for a long time could sound so bloody naive.
It doesn't matter to you that a Trump presidency would further embolden open racism down to every level including our schools, where there's already a rise in bullying, just from his candidacy? And more police violence than we see already? That Trump would almost certainly arrange to release the Bundy bros and would love to give away the federal lands to states to sell to the highest bidder? That they wouldn't even need a TPP to nullify environmental laws, if President Trump chose to order inaction? That President Trump would think it a brilliant idea for the country to declare bankruptcy a la Detroit? That he is even more hostile to independent journalists and bloggers and protestors than Clinton, and that's saying something? Et al, etc.?
Your diary seems to imply that once in office, the swindler, blowhard, impulse-driven liar and sociopathic bully we've come to know MIGHT turn out to be a completely completely different personality. Or that Congress might develop a moral spine and be able to control him.
Yup, and I have a bridge to sell somebody.
Euterpe2
Let's not talk about this like Hillary vs Trump
is a choice between racism and racial justice.
It's a choice between where you want POC to be killed: here in the United States, or in Haiti, Honduras, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Iraq?
If you want to prioritize preserving the lives of the POC here, fine; but don't call that a fight against racism, because it will be done against the backdrop of the bodies of POC piling up like cordwood overseas.
That's a best-case scenario, and, at its most moral, it can be summed up as: "I want to save my friends and neighbors." Or, if you're a POC yourself, "I want to save my family."
Sadly, the best-case scenario is probably not going to be what you get under Hillary anyway, and if I'm right, a lot more American Black people will be murdered under a Hillary presidency than a Trump one; but I'm giving your idea as much credence as I can. So let's assume that the Trumpistas are not going to be enraged at the spectacle of Hillary cheating their leader out of the Presidency, which, at this point, given all her previous cheating, they will believe whether it happens or not; let's assume that this incredibly unpopular figurehead, shoved down the people's throat while the people are told by the corporate media repeatedly that she's winning because of Black people and Latinos, is not going to incite an angry, even a violent response on the part of some of those disaffected people, particularly white ones; let's assume that either she doesn't inflict further austerity and violence on the American people, or that somehow the wretched pro-austerity and pro-endless war policies do not pour gasoline on the anger of white Americans prone to racism, making them feel they have nothing to lose; let's assume that Hillary actually reforms the police so that they no longer provide a lawless, law-proof, accountability-proof band of murderers who kill POC at will; let's assume that the people who ordinarily might organize, or join, coalitions against racism and violence do not sink into exhausted despair and inactivity, or take out their frustration and pain on each other, dividing into endless futile factions, after the spiritual Blitzkrieg of this election cycle. Let's assume all that doesn't happen, and that things go well.
The best-case scenario of a Clinton victory, stated in its most moral form, is not "I want to end racist violence," but "I want to protect my friends and neighbors (or family) from racist violence, whether or not others end up dying of racist violence at the hand of the person I chose to protect us."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
There's no "or" there where you're looking
Trump hates, fears and despises brown-skinned people no matter where they live. Clinton has no real understanding but at least expresses some concern with racial justice.
The "or" is this: You want your foreign wars with or without a president stoking violent bigotry at home?
Euterpe2
Trump, to the extent that you can talk about his ideas at all,
favors much more isolationism than Clinton, and is far more limited in where he wants to have wars. He is not advocating for a PNAC strategy, nor a Monroe Doctrine strategy.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Red Scare becomes Witch Hunt
I agree with point of column. Trump and the gop are many bad things, but the Nazis and Hitler they are not. As the article mentioned, the Nazis were a mass social and political movement with its own private militia. Billy Bob Joe of Hooterville throwing a punch at a Trump protester is not even remotely like the Nazi brownshirts.
But what I fear is that if Hillary wins, we will see the re-establishment of the HUAC. I read on TOP and other pro-Hillary sites a call for Congressional investigations of Russian connections that mirror what the HUAC was all about. Hillary supporters and the gop also, are historically blind and ignorant of how their calls reflect McCarthyism. When Hillary goes to war with Russia, you can bet anti-war protesters will be investigated and jailed if needed to root out anybody loyal to Putin.
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