Thanks to Sandernista1812

Issuing my thanks to sandernista1812 who has expertly whacked the hornet's nest at TOP with a handsome old lovingly carved Hickory Stick. This beautiful piece of artwork displays all the bits and pieces of that most hated of thing at TOP, the Truth as supported by Facts.

Should you care to also feel the spread of the warm glow by venturing over to the other side of The Wall, here is your destination:

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/8/19/1561807/-A-Primary-In-Review-W...

Enjoy, friends.

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Comments

detroitmechworks's picture

Dear lord.

And they call us the mean and stupid ones.

I hadn't ventured over there in months. It's like...

Ok I'll get snarky, but this is a whole new level of stupidity and outright dismissal.

To be honest, it reads like neo-Nazi trolling on youtube. Stupid, condescending memes, no response other than personal attacks, and attempts to call into question the nature of actual reality.

I find it funny that the Daily Kos seems to have become the Daily Stormer, But for Hillary instead of Hitler.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Hillbilly Dem's picture

I hadn't been to LOF for over 2 months. This essay prompted me to click and go over. Gawd I wish that I hadn't gone there. The comments are a bullying shit storm of regurgitation.

She won fair and square. Get lost, loser. Sanders dead enders. Etc, etc, etc.

The comments could have easily come from George W. Bush supporters in 2004.

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

appears to have dropped significantly.

I recognized very few usernames.

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kharma's picture

Or sharks with blood in the water.
Or more accurately, like flies to shit.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Now sounds like a bunch of paid supporters in a circle jerk, each falling over the other to be the first to dismiss anything inconsistent with their fantasy world where HRC is an angel instead of a war hawk.

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Peace out, tmp.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

"Sore Loserman," ca 12/2000.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

I left TOP at least 3 months ago, and , Yes...the comments are a vivid picture of where HillBots have descended .

I am still wearing my Bernie 2016 shirt. Getting some interesting looks. I'm also attending an "Our Revolution" watch party Wednesday evening. It will be the first time I've been in a group of Bernie supporters for a while, and am curious at the level of disgust they may bring to the gathering...so I hope.

I pray bernie will bring some sorely needed "ooomphff to the body politic

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RejectingThe3rdWay's picture

I find it funny that the Daily Kos seems to have become the Daily Stormer, But for Hillary instead of Hitler.

The Daily Storm Kos Front

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When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!

I also read some comments, but I T&Red it anyway - and left my own comment. Will this get me banned? Maybe. I don't care. After all, it has always asserted that it's a Democratic site, and Sept 1, I'll be changing to the Green Party. (FL Democratic primary ends on Aug 30, where I'm voting for Sanders supporter Alan Grayson over depublican* Patrick Murphy).

* I think of Murphy as having smudged out the legs from his "R" affiliation, and "depublican" is the best way I can think of for displaying the resultant lower-case "d".

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Hetrose's picture

It is painful to go there but on occasion I feel I just need to check it out and assess the mood. It is very sad and if I were a Democrat it would be disheartening to me. Fortunately I am an Independent waiting for a new party I can wholeheartedly embrace. I am currently giving some consideration to the Green Party but I am just not there yet.

Peace.

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that we're going to be able to hold Hillary accountable if she's elected. The same folks that are launching attacks on all Clinton critics are going to be circling the wagons and defending her throughout every minute of her presidency, dismissing everything as a right wing conspiracy. You cannot hold someone like that accountable when they have a cult of supporters, paid or otherwise, that purposely shut down substantive debate about their leader.

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https://www.quantcast.com/dailykos.com#/trafficCard This is March 1 - today.

I logged back in long enough to FB and Tweet it, check its stats, and then logged out again. I forget that place still exists until someone reminds.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

elenacarlena's picture

Crickets on the lows.

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martianexpatriate's picture

picked a really good nickname in addition to writing an interesting story.

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Plato2016's picture

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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato

reflectionsv37's picture

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“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

Leema's picture

Can you describe some of the diary points made?

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When wealth rules, democracy dies.

Plato2016's picture

the emails showing dnc colluded

the study that shows paper trails made a difference, etc

Author tried to stay focused on what was actually reported in mainstream and did not go anywhere near the far out suppositions and guessing.

Still got banned

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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato

I refuse to go there. Left in March without a fare thee well and have not been back once.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

I don't care if there's a recipe for the best cheesecake ever....

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elenacarlena's picture

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

That looks divine. And I like the glass in the background of the photo, lol. Just in case the cheesecake itself doesn't get the job done ...

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~OaWN

QMS's picture

you are making my eyes drool

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WaveyDavey's picture

just to recommend sandernista's diary.

I feel sorry for the people still going to that site. What was once a ever flowing fountain of truth and honest discourse has now devolved into a herd of sheep bleating what they are told to bleat without question.

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The people, united, will never be defeated.

elenacarlena's picture

a part of. Which includes women's issues, racial justice issues, pain issues, homeless issues, poverty issues, etc.; and not all of whom can be convinced to move here. We still do a little good work on the back pages.

I do not click on the vast majority of the political diaries. Why torture myself? The Trump statue info is pretty funny, though.

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I rarely went into a political diary, just reading the eco diaries of MB, pakolo(sp), desert scientist guy and a couple others, the science articles of darksyde and palantir. I really enjoy Ojibwa's photo and Aboriginal American (don't dog my ass on the term, I never know the preferred term du jour as someone will take offense at whatever is used) diaries. I followed Chris Reeves for my Ks news until he channeled Fox with his "Executive Action Dictator" post against Stein. I'd read the Morning Open Thread everyday for a wakeup.
On all the articles I'd read comments until someone would spin those to the political dogma allowed. MOT was my refuge from the political BS they try to feed over there but it has gotten an influx of new users that turned it into another political rant.
Yesterday I clicked the logout button (always being logged in because login on a kindle takes about five minutes) and instead pulled out a sheet of butcher paper and my orange crayon,drew a picture of Satan Hillary with the caption " Trump sucks! Bow down, kneel and praise the anointed Master of True Americans". So if I get an itch to visit LOF, I look at that and get my fill.

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

elenacarlena's picture

for a while too. He was anti-Bernie, IIRC.

Love the idea of an orange Satan Hillary pic! How funny.

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Then the March 15 edict came down. Also sometime around the first of the year he was appointed some position in the Democratic party. Don't remember if it's just state or regional ( gonna see if wiki article on him after I peck through this post). When your opinion is dictated by your position...
Like someone had an essay the other day on Brainwrap. (Don't remember who wrote it. I'm really bad with names, so yuou can just call me Asshole). The author apparently forgot Brainwrap is on some ACA council.

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

Amanda Matthews's picture

really enjoy them.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

WaveyDavey's picture

(don't dog my ass on the term, I never know the preferred term du jour as someone will take offense at whatever is used)

It's the way you say it.

Saddening how we keep changing the words for the people we hate as if somehow that erases the hate.

Guy 1: I hate those dirty Indians.

Guy 2: You can't say Injuns you have to say "Native American"

Guy 1: Sorry, didn't mean to be disrespectful. What I meant to say was: "I hate those dirty Native Americans"

Words have no power. It's the hate behind those words where the power lies.

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The people, united, will never be defeated.

Deja's picture

She was homeless. I stayed longer than I wanted to, so I could keep up with her. I invited her here, but it was when we needed a better server, so even though she registered here, I haven't seen anything from her. I hope she finally landed a job and got a place. I hope she got her dog back too, but I doubt that happened. Sad

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elenacarlena's picture

still writing about her experiences. Last diary 8/19. I didn't find recent info on the doggie. They were asking for adopters last I saw, and she's not mentioning him recently, so my guess is he was adopted out.

Here's the most recent post, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/08/19/1561868/-Homeless-140-Job-Appli...

She seems to be hanging tough, keeps applying for jobs and housing.

And here's the last one I saw about the woozle, although there are diaries between these that I didn't read all of, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/06/15/1539124/-Homeless-131-A-Rough-Week

I sure wish things would resolve for her!

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Deja's picture

She really deserves one. I'm sad now. I feel selfish saying I have to get back to my housework, you know, in my rented roof over my head. Sigh. . .

Thank you. I can't go back there, but thanks for doing so and letting me know. Sad

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elenacarlena's picture

I haven't been seeing her diaries when they post, probably because I'm there much less than I used to be. But I can search her name and go there directly, bypassing the junk. Her tone seems good at this point. I'm impressed with her ability to keep on keeping on.

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edg's picture

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but surely someone here knows?

The essay is quite long re the primary rigging. Don't have time atm to summarize, sorry.

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It is everything you already know about the Clintons and Dems stealing the election from us plus a whole lot of nasty, condescending comments. Biggrin

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Hillbilly Dem's picture

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Sandernista expounded at length on the reprehensible behavior of the Democratic elite, but the only stat I saw was a comparison of states with paper ballots vs those with computerized voting. The conclusion that the primary was indeed rigged was largely tied to the voluminous evidence of what I suspect many people just think of as "politics".

I assume that the full press attack against Sanders had a big effect, but IMO the statistics highlighting the "discrepancies" in computerized voting and tallying are far more important. In US voting, the Stalinistas rule. And that's a bigger story than the DNC jackasses.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

the hacking of voter registration data.

Seems to often get lost in the shuffle, but it is where voter suppression becomes outright fraud.

that and the exit polling discrepancies--esp. the fact that there basically were none on the Republican side--

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

I sullied myself, just got the stink off with a shower!! Sandernista took a three point approach to the rigged primary. All of it re-itteration of previously presented facts, and studies...none of them following obvious CT. The diary was banned by the time i got there. Points of interest revolved around the leaked emails showing DNC favoring HRC and attempts to tarnish Bernie's reputation, campaign, etc., the media blackout of Bernie, and several studies showing how states with little backup/paper trails went big for HRC, and otherwise, states with accountable paper trails leaned to Sanders. No mention was made of discrepancies in exit polling.

The comments were beyond insane... thus the need to shower away the filth

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It's very ugly over there. The chorus is too busy slapping each other on the back with sophomoric retorts to snarky, disrespectful responses to be worth reading. Sheep, cliff ............thud.

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lotlizard's picture

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gulfgal98's picture

people who rec'd the tip jar. This is ridiculous.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

cardboardurinal's picture

they are continuing to drive away an diversity of opinion. It has been bad there since the 2008 primary elections, but now it is a total echo chamber for the Democratic Party. At least before there were people who were allowed to be critical, now...

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what is NRing? If it has something to do with a threatening yellow note at the top of the screen, I probably don't need to know the actual words. I noticed that gustogirl rec'd that diary (story?), and was afraid she might get hit with the threatening yellow note. Don't know if she cares.

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elenacarlena's picture

to rate tip jars and comments up and down. When you uprate something you shouldn't or flag something you shouldn't, you can have your ratings ability taken away for a specified period of time. I am NR until the end of August because I managed to do one of each of those things in a two-day time period. I question whether I really did, but decided not to fight it. As they mention here in comments, the "offense" is often nebulous.

Over there is sometimes written here OT, or The Other Place (TOP) or LOF (Little Orange Footballs).

If you are worse than rating "inappropriately," you might get Timed Out - TO - or banned for life.

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earthling1's picture

After I read all negative comments about the diary upraters.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

elenacarlena's picture

You might be able to share it on social media without pushback. Leave them torn - unhappy about promoting THAT diary, but happy about promoting the site.

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WaveyDavey's picture

I don't even know what NR means.

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The people, united, will never be defeated.

elenacarlena's picture

I have noticed, though, that they tend to NR and ban women more readily than men; so you might escape.

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gulfgal98's picture

I got three days because I had an impeccable record until now. Every person who either rec'd or tipped that diary is being NR'd.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

WindDancer13's picture

had forgotten to sign out and figured I would stop and uprate the post while I was there. I don't need no stinkin' ratings there. = )

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

WaveyDavey's picture

Got a warning pop-up.

I'm guilty of recommending a diary that got a member banned. I'm asked to remove my recommendation from the diary and acknowledge the warning. Until I do I will not be able to post again.

Being scolded for uprating a factually accurate diary while other diaries lying about Jill Stein being an Anti-vaxer, get put on the Recommended List is an insult to my intelligence and integrity.

When faced with someone who is completely unreasonable the last thing I'm inclined to do is attempt to reason with them. It's my policy to walk away. Therefore, I'm leaving the warning "NOT ACKNOWLEDGE".

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The people, united, will never be defeated.

gulfgal98's picture

It means they pull your rating privileges for whatever nebulous violation you unknowingly committed.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

riverlover's picture

Too bad, I can only try snarky comments now. When I am feeling victim, I go over to try for banning. Not recently.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

gulfgal98's picture

is getting a warning and having their ratings privileges suspended. If you did so, please check your account.

This is the first time for me, so I got three days. I have only ever had one HR in over eight years but they are suspending my ratings privileges for recommending the truth. I have acknowledged the warning and will not be logging back again for a long time, if ever.

Meanwhile the Hillary dittoheads are celebrating their latest victory, another hollow one at that. Pathetic.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

elenacarlena's picture

You'll be back before I am.

Ah well. Apparently defending Jill is 10 times worse than defending Bernie.

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gulfgal98's picture

that promoted a third party, so that might be it. All I did was rec a diary. Also they said because I had never been warned before, I only got three days. Talk about censorship for recommending a factual diary. No wonder that place is dead.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

elenacarlena's picture

Someone who, in defense of Jill, said they thought there was still some issue with timing of vaccines, who had been multiply flagged. I uprated because I didn't see any reason to flag. They told me it was CT. I still don't think so, at most it's just a misstatement of fact (I didn't bother to look it up to find out either way).

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is ellid calling Stein an anti-vaxxer (her words!) And Chris Reeves calling her an executive order dictator. But, y'know rules are only for the little people.

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

elenacarlena's picture

she gives a hoot about corporations' influence over the government, dontcha know.

I have successfully pushed back on the exec order thing. Obama does it. Every Prez does it. I managed not to get ordered to cut that out. You can defend her Over There if you're very careful to just present facts, not say you like her or anything of an "advocating" nature.

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bondibox's picture

I once read a kossack admonish someone supporting Jill's position on Vaccinations - that is, the safety of all vaccines should be suspect because the approval process is corrupt - as ludicrous because the approval committee is made up of academics and doctors with impeccable ethics.

Well, I just looked it up. That committee is the VRBPAC, and its role is to ADVISE the FDA. The real "approval committee" is made up of FDA execs.

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“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”

I'm a dummy with acronyms too!! People here have been very polite and helpful as I struggle to figure out the puzzles of compressed typing/texting.

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It only makes me angry and depressed. Some of the people there are so awful, and rigid, and close-minded, and just plain nasty! They're not doing a service to their candidate - they're making me despise her even more (even if that is illogical). They're like a bunch of middle-school bullies. If I could think of something that would really piss them off, I'd gladly post it and be banned for life.

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I wonder if I'll get a message popping up when I go back there, telling me I have to acknowledge what they've done, as happened when I got HRed for an obliquely vulgar response. (Confess your crime, worm!) I further wonder what'll happen if it's a few months before I bother to go back there, which is highly likely. Will I have been disappeared entirely? Only time will tell.

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Thornrose's picture

The big bad "You have been warned. Acknowledge this!" just popped up. Oh dear. WhatEVER shall I do?? First offense. Hope it's not the last.

UPDATE: Just went back to see if I could recommend anything else or I was blocked, and it let me Rec an actually very good, completely non political diary, so I guess just the "shame" of being warned was supposed to be enough of a threat. Hah! Little do they know.

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WaveyDavey's picture

Kos must have his knickers in a twist. Hell no I'm not removing the the recommendation. I'm not even acknowledging the warning.

I've not been there for months and my one time back proved that it is no longer a site with which I want to be associated.

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The people, united, will never be defeated.

Thornrose's picture

They said I didn't remove my Recommend.

How exactly was I supposed to do that when the diary had been removed? Not that I would have anyway.

I was ready to send them a strong eff you, who do you think you are, banning adults to time outs like we're toddlers type message. But I didn't know how to do it, what to click on. And they are so not worth my time. Besides, I started going back to church a few months ago & decided I really wouldn't feel very good about myself if I'm up there leading the music tomorrow and singing about loving each other after sending (granted, well-deserved) f-bombs flying on the Internet tonight.

It really does anger & hurt me, though, that they have turned into such cruel, ignorant, judgmental people. I guess I can only hope this remains a safe, open-minded place to land. Just feeling a bit weepy about it all right now. It hurts to be treated so unfairly.

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reflectionsv37's picture

In my 12 years there, I was timed out 3 times. Each one fully justified. I'm referring to the comments I made, not the timeouts I received! LOL! And NR'ed once. I know you were there for a long time as I remember when the gulf oil spill happened it was sometimes just the 2 of us late at night staring at blank screens of the ocean floor! How did you manage to keep such a clean record?

But right now, at least last time I looked, I am still in good standing with 5 bars of mojo!!! I'm saving myself for a banning of alien proportions! Not going to get sucked in with some banning by reccing or tipping a diary! No way! I'm going out in a cosmic explosion!

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“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

To which I can only suggest that the perpetrators engage in self-sodomy.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

To the Community:
The author of this diary has been banned and the tip jar hidden. Please do not Recommend the diary, tip the tip jar or otherwise promote this diary that the community has deemed against site rules and norms. If you have questions about community moderation please read kos' diary, Rules of the Road​

***

Wow. What jerks. What with all the information out there and the continual investigations, you would think they would be smart enough to understand that these are things that we NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT.

But after reading some of their rabid nonsense, I see they're not that smart.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Dkos is flat out a propaganda organ of the DNC.

I hope Dkos is being well compensated for turning his once intellectually vibrant site into SheepleCentral.

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WaveyDavey's picture

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The people, united, will never be defeated.

kharma's picture

I would log into there and rec it except, fuck that place and Lil Nap's minions.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

WaterLily's picture

I was almost ready to court the ban-hammer, but decided I'm going to hold out.

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When I run into her there picking wings off flies, I always want to ask her, "is it kind, is it necessary". Then I think, wtf who cares.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

thanatokephaloides's picture

When I run into her there picking wings off flies, I always want to ask her, "is it kind, is it necessary". Then I think, wtf who cares.

Wee Mama has joined the chorus of arch-stupidity over there??!!?? Wee Mama, who once was the very voice of reason and common sense?

Ichabod, ladies and gentlemen! The glory is really and truly gone! (And, for the record, so am I!)

Diablo

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

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gulfgal98's picture

Talk about a hypocrit. Is it kind to gloat over people getting NR'd for standing up for the truth? Hmmm...

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Lily O Lady's picture

she's defending Hillary and all womankind from those mean, mean BernieBros of both sexes! That would be some world class pretzel logic.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

thanatokephaloides's picture

That would be some world class pretzel logic.

Diablo

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

TheOtherMaven's picture

Celts and Vikings spent a couple of centuries stealing and improving on each other's artwork. Smile It enriched both cultures.

Edit: As to TOP, I'll never go there any more.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Bollox Ref's picture

How very Christian of her.

(Sorry, but I had a run in with this individual about not poking fun at religion.......... religion deserves poking with fun.)

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

The posters over there do everything they accuse Republicans of. Classic projection. Also it makes for a boring site. I read a few of the comments and felt pretty ho hum. I mean jeez, they can't even get the outrage going any more. It's kind of like reading FreeRepublic back in the mid 2000s - just the usual gang of posters repeating the same stock catch phrases that have meaning only to the insiders who care to keep track of such things.

They should all just type 'ditto' hit post and be done with it.

(Edited for clarity and embarrassing grammar mistakes.)

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Anja Geitz's picture

The vitriol is so incomprehensible, I can barely wrap my head around it. Just a string of nasty insults and memes about how irrelevant and stupid the other side is on this. No, legitimate response to be found in that entire comment thread.

Ugh, I feel unclean.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Even the attempts at vitriol seem low energy to me.

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Anja Geitz's picture

I've got a Bernie Boner doesn't sound particularly hostile to you?

As a female, it sounded as awful as the misogynist Bernie Bro Myth they were trying to cram down our throats.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Awful mob mentality and perfectly hostile, but all of the vitriol was crude and repetitive. It was also just plain lazy - a bunch of shit catch phrases that I'm sure get the yuk-yuks with regulars there but are otherwise boring. Even "bernie boners" sounds like a half thought out cheap shot. It's like they can't even be bothered. Low energy hostility spewing vitriol without substance.

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