Bill Nye The Science Guy says Desalination -- That's the Ticket!
Remember how California Officials were 'waiting for El Nino' -- and how that Deluge would solve ALL their Water Deficit problems?
Well ...
link
Well, El Nino has come and gone, and the Drought conditions still persist in one of the Nation's go-to Groceries producers.
Sorry. No such Luck.
Drought survey: California farms lost $603 million, 4,700 jobs this year
by Business Journal staff -- 08/15/2016
This year’s drought conditions have led to $603 million in economic losses on California farms, as well as 4,700 lost jobs, but UC Davis researchers note the conditions are less severe than years past.
The latest annual drought survey noted that winter and spring were wetter in Northern California, though conditions were largely drier than average in the Central Valley and Southern California.
The year saw water districts and contractors short about 2.6 million acre-feet of water for the 2016 irrigation season — roughly 14 percent less than a normal statewide surface water supply for crops.
[...]
By the time enough Officials realize the consequences of Climate Change are serious -- that severe droughts have historically led to the end of tribes, cultures, and even entire species -- it may in actually be too late to do anything about it.
Well Bill Nye The Science Guy has an answer, that may curtail some, if not much, of the foreseeable misery. Question is are enough average people listening? When will we get it -- This is NOT somebody else's problem ... Withering croplands in California effects ALL of us.
Bill Nye: Solar-Powered Desalination 'Could Be Key to the Future'
by Cole Mellino, EcoWatch -- Mar 18, 2016
[...]
"Desalination of water could be the key to the future for so many of us humans," Nye said, explaining how desalination plants utilize reverse osmosis to remove salt from seawater. Researchers are in the process of developing new technologies right now, he continued.Many places around the world already use the technology, Nye noted. "This is done all the time. It's done in Australia at several industrial-scale, citywide installations ... Carlsbad, California has one. And cruise chips and I guess the U.S. Navy exploit this technology all the time," Nye said.
So, he's very optimistic that we "are living at a time where this breakthrough may be made on an industrial scale," and he believes it could even be powered by renewables.
"We could have all the clean water we wanted for everybody all over the world and we would power the pumps with solar power, regular old photovoltaic solar cells, and when the sun is not shining you don't pump the water," Nye explained.
[...]
Hey Bill Nye, 'Can We Desalinate Water for Human Consumption on a Massive Scale?' #TuesdaysWithBill
Big Think -- link -- prepare to geek out!
Maybe, there is hope that "the average person" will wake up in time, to address the "National Security" Crisis we ALL will endure the consequences of ...
About a dozen desalination plants are being proposed in California.
As of May 2016, there are nine active proposals for seawater desalination plants along the California coast, as well as two additional proposed plants in Baja California, Mexico that would provide water to southern California communities. This is down from an estimated 21 proposed projects in 2006 and 19 in 2012. Since 2006, only two projects have been built: a small plant in Sand City with a capacity of 300,000 gallons of water per day and a much larger 50-million-gallon per day plant in Carlsbad. Below, you can view the locations and some details about California’s existing and proposed seawater desalination facilities.
[...]
If the substained 115 F Summer heat waves are not enough to wilt the skeptics, then probably nothing will. Then again "dialing back" on the number proposed desalination plants, simply because El Nino has partially re-filled some of CA's reservoirs -- is hardly a long-term "Winning!" strategy (unless maybe your name is Charlie Sheen).
Because despite the penny-wise Official proclamations, the latest map is decidedly missing those refreshing 'shades of Blue':
Extra Credit: More on Bill Nye's rant-worthy topic:
Desalination Plant’s Value to Ratepayers Is Clear
Huntington Beach desalination plant to be 100% carbon neutral
Otay Water District Proposes Pipeline from Rosarito Desalination Plant into U.S.
The World’s Largest Solar Powered Desalination Plant To Be Built In Saudi Arabia
California Is Building The Country's Largest Solar Desalination Plant
Here's to forestalling the inevitable -- Do it for the generations who will inherit the 'whirlwind'.
Comments
I rather be Green,
than simply pretending to be
once every four years.
Dr. Jill Stein has a Plan -- "A Green New Deal" Plan -- one that's long overdue.
Stein will have the opportunity to continue to make her case against Clinton and the other presidential candidates at a CNN-hosted Green Party Town Hall event on Wednesday at 9:00 p.m.
That's a lot of salt
Proponents of desalination don't point to the biggest problem with it. What becomes of all that extra salt? If you put it back in the ocean, the water is too salty and it kills the marine life.
“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”
the last link in the post
states:
How much salt can the economy absorb?
I see start ups saying stuff like this all the time. Yeah, the first few plants can make potato chip ingredients or road salt (now there's an ecologically sound use case) but when you start to scale it up across the entire planet, you run out of places to put it.
Right now there are too many people on the planet for us all to have a zero footprint lifestyle that doesn't entail living in huts. The population curve is bending, and educating women helps a lot, but we have to get there from here somehow.
Some (like Cassiodorus) argue that we can reduce the impact of the economy by removing a lot of useless infrastructure (like advertising). I think that can get us part of the way there, but I am really pessimistic about trying to get humans to not use favour tracking/currency/market systems for distributed decision making. You can teach monkeys to use "money" in minutes because we are hard-wired for it (and they invent prostitution shortly afterwards...).
So I think there is going to be some ecological cost and the problem is how to minimize it, not chase a pipe dream of zero impact. We are probably going to have to create some saline outflows so we need to keep them as small as possible. We can make the land use density trade off between nuclear and solar/wind, but it is not free: a few weeks back I responded to a comment on the closing of Diablo canyon ogling the tidal flows at the base by computing that you would need to take over the entire California coast to replace the output of that one tiny plant with tidal power.
There is no magic bullet, just some hard choices. We need to know what the trade offs are, and we can debate the merits, but I fear that too many believe there are easy answers. And to return to the original post, my experience is that tech startups are full of people who are so focused on their problem that they don't think through the externalities.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Our oceans are"freshening"
meaning the slat levels are lowering. Returning the salt back to the oceans would help, in my rather limited opinion.
The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.
Sadly this is because the ice caps are melting
The problem is not the amount of salt (it and the water all end up back in the ocean eventually). The problem is that the temporary concentration at the outflow point is toxic to a lot of sea life (the squishy kind, not the furry kind).
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I remember reading back in the '70's
that freshening, along with warmer temps could shut down the ocean currents and adversely affect ocean life but the weather as well. smh
The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.
...
How Seawater Desalination Works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ7bgkFgqJQ
That Video says
"The Brine Outfall is situated in an area of significant Ocean flow, so that the salt-levels quickly return to equilibrium with the Ocean. The location for the Outfall should contain no sensitive marine ecosystems."
Here is another "How To" clip:
World’s Largest Solar Powered Seawater Desalination Plant
Desalination
is a high energy requirement and currently is only efficient at lower water temperatures. Good luck with the lower temperatures.
Better ideas:
Conserve.
Get rid of golf courses unless they can survive on what the climate (not the ground) gives them.
Slow down the consumption of meat products which are water intensive.
Limit water usage to a set point. No buying more than you need.
Reuse grey water.
etc
etc.
etc.
I love much of what Bill says, but sometimes he thinks within the box.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
And stop using wasting water of fracking.
One of the biggest consumers
is Agriculture.
Though I agree "wasting" water on lawns, and washing cars, and even golf courses,
are probably "luxuries" that society as a unit,
can no longer afford.
Bill Nye is into solar energy too
[video:https://youtu.be/JA8fKlfcA7E]
The political revolution continues
I'll pass
Desalinization is energy intensive and results in a lot of very concentrated salts that you have to put somewhere. And hopefully that "somewhere" is not back in the ocean where it will create a dead zone.
I have a better idea. Let's own up to the fact that California and the southwest do not have the capacity to support that many people and that much agriculture. We can further own up to the fact that diverting massive amounts of the Colorado River to support these regions was a dumb idea.
I'm sure if we ask "nice enough"
20 million people will pull up stakes,
and move somewhere else.
Happens all the time!
But we have to also "ask" the immigrants to stay,
to keep tending to our fruits and vegetables.
Unfortunately, Humans make lots of "dumb" decisions.
Just read your average History book.
Most of the water use in California is agricultural
Agricultural water use is a small part of the economy (10%?) but a large part of the consumption (80%?). LA actually gets enough rainfall to supply the city's water needs.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Discovery Channel's "Killing The Colorado"
was excellent in depicting the massive and worsening depletion of water in the West and how corps and politicians are making it even worse.
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/discovery-impact/about-killing-the-col...
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
I'm currently in love with Ceto 6
All underwater, attracts marine life, zero emissions, you get power and/or desalinated water depending on what you need. Just chills out in the ocean, catching waves and doing its thing.
Check it: http://carnegiewave.com/what-is-ceto/
"Nothing's wrong, son, look at the news!" -- Firesign Theater
That looks like a great idea SA
Submerged and using wave power!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
No kidding!
Why the hell we don't have a bunch of these all down the Pacific Coast I simply do NOT know. They're even okay in an active subduction zone with earthquakes because if a big shaker comes and they cut loose they'll float and we can send out ships to go cotch 'em and bring them back again.
Waves gonna wave, it's what they do, and not taking advantage of that to make power and water is just stupid. I mean, it's literally raining soup all over the world and we're standing around debating bucket technology and wondering if it's feasible to go to ten gallon over five. Just fucking DO IT! Get started, yes, you're going to be sinking money into the prototypes that will be eventually supplanted but SO WHAT? In the meantime, you're getting basically free electricity and free drinking water and where the hell is the downside of that?
People never think in these terms, but what would it mean to all of us if we no longer had to pay an electric bill every month? No more natural gas bill either. How much money does that put in everyone's pocket? Especially since we can stop the oil industry subsidies--that's 600 billion a year to do better things with. Also no more oil cleanup, that's a goodly chunk of change as well. Moving to renewables is so straightforward and unequivocally a win for people and the planet that it's becoming increasingly obvious there's a tiny little bottleneck of those who are willing to kill the world in order to enrich themselves for another few years. Those people need to be taken out and shot for the benefit of the human race, no shit.
"Nothing's wrong, son, look at the news!" -- Firesign Theater
Planet Over Population Is The Disease
Until people and the media stop The Denial, all these green band-aids will only slow the inevitable death of the planet.
I know, I know. Gawd said go forth and multiply blah blah blah -- but that was about 6 billion humans ago.
PS. I'm all for green initiatives in addition to reversing human population explosion.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Fortunately population growth is slowing
but not as fast as would be desired. Admittedly the graph you are showing is indicative of an R-type species, but those species almost always overshoot the carrying capacity of their environment and then die off due to lack of resources. We do NOT want to have that happen. What is happening when one looks closer is that the upper portion of the human population curve is starting to develop the sigmoid shape that k-type species generate as they approach the carrying capacity of their environments; a leveling-off, as it were.
The current problems with extreme population growth rates are primarily in underdeveloped countries, in particular where women are subjugated to male domination, are uneducated, the GPD per capita is low, nutrition is questionable, medical facilities are few, etc. Resolving these problems and eliminating the edicts of major religions to breed like rabbits would help a lot.
Nuclear War is the answer!
Hillary will solve that problem for us.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
As a general comment
I keep seeing people posting what I would consider anti-technology comments without addressing the deaths of millions if we suddenly just quit what we are doing and don't use what tech we can bring to the game. We don't need desalinization, we HAVE TO HAVE DESALINIZATION. It must be solar, tidal, wind, or wave powered. Yes, it will generate salt, the unusable excess of which we can return to the massive salt domes we have mined for a couple of centuries.
I'd rather people have water to drink and food to eat than luddites letting everyone die because they don't have a full understanding of our capabilities and don't like tech. Get in line if you want to be the first to quit eating and drinking. What? No one? I didn't think so.
It's rather bizarre
how often it seems that the left/liberal/progressives will take an anti-tech/science stance.
In this case, people are saying it's going to be too expensive, or that we'll have so much waste salt. Well, keeping people alive is expensive. Universal healthcare is expensive. Education is expensive. Food is expensive. It is expensive to live in a modern corporatist society. But without clean water, what does it matter what those three things I listed costs? Without water, there is no food, and without food and drink, you don't have your health, and without those three, what does it matter what you could possibly learn?
Desalination is an immediate answer for a long term problem. Can it be a long term answer? I don't know. But we're not going to have the time to worry about a long term solution (of which water bottling companies need to be reduced) if we don't deal with the current problem we face now.
As for the salt, isn't sea-salt supposed to be healthier or something than regular salt? We could get a market change to happen perhaps. There's also ocean desalination that the excess salt can be an answer to.
I don't take these comments as
anti-tech, just skeptical of tech having THE answer for everything. That liberal "meritocracy" may have something to do with that, and there is no denying that any start-up company will make big promises that many times they either cannot keep or just didn't bother to realize there really were extenuating circumstances involved in keeping that promise.
The volume of salt WILL be something to deal with, and I don't think it's as easy as just counting on our current oceans desalinating to even that out. As others have mentioned repeatedly, it does not buy us much if these plants are not solar powered either.
Yes, it's an immediate answer, but we in America are supremely guilty of going for the immediate without contemplating the consequences. I for one would not trust either a politician or some start-up private company to do all the necessary research and/or mitigation of those consequences upon initial implementation either. And as someone else mentioned, these plants will also HAVE to be nationalized, otherwise we'll just be held hostage to buying from them at inflated prices, we've seen that fucking movie before for damned sure.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Rejecting a non-sustainable technology ...
... doth not a luddite make.
I'd rather create a sustainable economy in which people are not at risk of losing the resources that allow them to eat and drink. Desalinization would be an immediate but temporary fix to the problem. People can eat and drink today, but tomorrow they'll find themselves worse off for the effort.
I'll tell you what I'm against: hubris. Every large scale environmental engineering program humans have engaged in started with hubris and ended in tragedy. To wit: the diversion of rivers from the Aral Sea, the draining of the everglades, the effect of damming the Mississippi River on the Mississippi delta. Each of these projects were born of hubris, with the naysayers being accused of being anti-technology. In each case, the worst case scenarios came to pass.
The massive irrigation of California for agriculture and diversion of the Colorado River is just the latest large scale environmental engineering project whose ultimate consequences are coming home to roost. (Growing a lawn or keeping a golf green in SoCal is just that same hubris on a personal level.) Instead of a technological quick fix to preserve the status quo, we should admit California agriculture and population growth are not sustainable projects and begin to turn towards solutions that are sustainable.
Appropos of nothing ...
... but I wouldn't be a New Englander without pointing out that Bill Nye the Science Guy didn't understand the ideal gas law as it applies to warm and cold footballs.
If you want to quote someone, ask MIT scientists (sure, you can throw in Carnegie Mellon too), who understand both.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2015/01/30/mit-professer-confirm...
http://newatlas.com/mit-solar-powered-portable-desalination-system/16757/
carry on.
What did Bill Nye
say about inflated footballs and temperatures? I'm not familiar with that. Seems odd that he would get something like that wrong, but we all err sometimes. I'd like to read it please.
sure, just google "bill nye" and "deflategate"
You'll see the videos. He also reveals he's a Seahawks fan. Here's one, for example:
http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2015/01/27/bill-nye-science-guy-deflateg...
A friend of the court brief signed by about 20 scientists on Brady's side, saying "geezus, for the love of god, science matters".
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2016/06/08/tom-brady-vindicated-by-laws-of-scie...
Nye was not the only one tripped up. Neil deGrasse Tyson was also mercilessly tooled on for miscalculating the effect. Turns out you can't trust TV astrophysicists, either.
In the end, no one knows if anything happened, the "experiment" on game day was totally without any meaningful control in the first place, and there is ample indication that science does indeed support the Pats view.
Before this, the NFL had absolutely no idea that the cold had any effect at all, which is clear by how they defined the rule (pressure without reference to temperature).
I wouldn't mind a link that contains the actual argument,
rather than just a bland statement of the conclusions. How does PV=nrT not apply? If T drops by 6% (300K to 283K), then why does PV not drop 6%? And indeed, in the linked video, Nye doesn't rely on the IGL, he puts a football in the freezer and applies a "feel" test to it, observing that "it doesn't feel that much different". The cornell grad student apparently did a similar experiment, but measured a significant drop in pressure, which he then explained with a lot of equations, I guess. I note that "wetting" the ball to simulate the rainy conditions is wholly bogus, unless you're going to be measuring the pressure in comparable atmospheric conditions -- i.e., conditions in which there is essentially zero convection cooling due to evaporation (because the air is saturated) but there is additional convection cooling due to heat conduction because the wet air conducts heat better than dry air.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I hope we can do this revolution
or else we can add the Water Industrial Complex (WIC) to the list of evil entities burning up the world for their own greed.
Beware the bullshit factories.
These plants would need to be nationalized.
Can you imagine the horrors brought on us if they were privatized?
Enjoy every sandwich. (ripwz)
Privatization of water
Seems to be implied as the next big thing on Wall Street at the end of the movie, "The Big Short". How politically convenient it is for some that we have terrible tragedies with water supplies, like in Flint.
Beware the bullshit factories.
We have no choice but to do desalinization
Water wars are coming soon to join with the energy wars. There are places on this planet much worse off than the US West. Throw in shifting precipitation patterns and timing from climate change and its gonna be a real mess. Food demands are going to increase with population rise and more people are starting to live like middle class Americans. Agriculture needs a lot of water and I don't think that is going to change. It is not an if but when. As for the oceans, yea, barring some coming together of nations, they are pretty screwed already. There does seem to be potential to keep salt from being sent back out to the ocean. That being said oceans have much bigger issues than local salt inflows from desal.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Desalination notwithstanding, it will not be feasible to
continue growing lettuce and alfalfa in the parched Central Valley of California.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.