This Time Lesser Evil Voting is Utter Folly
I just wanted to say that, "utter folly". It's utter folly man.
I've noticed many Bernie supporters (former?) saying they might vote for the asshole Trump primarily to stop Hillary Clinton from becoming president. That seems to be the prevailing attitude for those who are going to vote in the upcoming Presidential election, stopping "the other one" from becoming president.
"On Tuesday, retiring New York Rep. Richard Hanna became the first Republican member of Congress to say he will vote for Democrat Hillary Clinton in November instead of Trump.
"He is unfit to serve our party and cannot lead this country," Hanna wrote in a column published in The Post-Standard newspaper of Syracuse, New York. "He is unrepentant in all things."
Also Tuesday, the woman who helped shape New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie's national image declared that she's voting for Clinton.
"As someone who has worked to further the Republican Party's principles for the last 15 years, I believe that we are at a moment where silence isn't an option," former Christie senior aide Maria Comella told CNN."
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/with-jab-at-ryan-trump-ignites-ne...
So we have republicans and former republicans voting for Clinton to stop Trump and democrats and former democrats voting for Trump to stop Clinton. Sure, each of these disgusting individuals has their true believers, can't be more than 5% of the voting eligible population. But the rest of those willing to vote for them are doing the lesser evil thing. The Lesser Evil Boogie.
This time we're carrying it too far. It is utter folly (!) to play this game. It's hard to believe there isn't a groundswell forming to protest this election. Voting for third party on election day will be too late, we'll get one of them for President.
What a strange fucking world we live in. Come on man, this is just wrong. I haven't talked to anyone I know or have met who hasn't agreed, this is fucked up.
Trump appears to be self destructing. That's been said many times in the past 15 months, but this whole affair seems to be getting to him. The dude is just a supremo asshole and more and more people have had enough. Like the republicans who are going to vote for a democrat who is really a republican but nobody really knows what time it is anyway do they?
So I say we're going to get Clinton. This is a short run to the election, after an intolerably long primary session. Anything can happen I suppose but the cards are lined up for Clinton. Clinton and the republicans right after Obama and the republicans right after Bush and the neocons.
Either way, I'd encourage people to not vote for either one of these abominations. Vote third party, don't vote for President, whatever, but don't elect either one. Don't be responsible for that. Vote for it you own it.
How low can we go? Is this it?
Comments
Where Ignorance is Bliss,
'Tis Folly to be Wise.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Trump is self destructing according to the plan
There's no reason for him to attack the Khans, McCain and other veterans unless he's trying to throw away his chance of becoming president.
I still think it was set up between the him and the Clintons.
He has never held a position in government or knows anything about foreign policy.
How he beat the other idiots is a mystery to me.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.
Its hard to not come to that conclusion. He's practically
tearing the republican party apart also which isn't a bad thing for the Clintons. He's also strengthened some narratives, such as NATO countries paying their fair share, that the imperialist establishment has wanted. But the time he's done it appears people will be begging to elect Clinton, like some republicans are doing now.
For what it's worth...
I've just published my response to your essay, Big Al.
There's a lot more to this than playing a game, or dancing The Lesser Evil Boogie.
Please take some time to think this through.
We disagree and communicating it can be frustrating, but let's really try to not stop seeing each other as friends, okay?
James Kroeger
All cool James.
I reserve the right to change my mind on a daily basis.
Agreed. I would not count on
Agreed. I would not count on Clinton winning a given. Let's watch the rally's
Clinton had less than 100 show up in Columbus Oh. Trump supposedly will fill an arena in Daytona tomorrow.
Also, I think Anonymous is going to war against CTR.
Found this. Dated today.
I can't understand what is linked, nor the comment, can you
translate it into English? CTR what does it stand for?
CTR = Correct the Record
A Shillary SuperPac with a heavy footprint on the Web.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
thx /nt
Why are the Jewish surnames in parentheses?
Was this information taken from the DNC?
Was started as a online Neo-Nazi manner...
Of identifying people they should ignore because they were "Echoing" the Jewish Conspiracy/Propaganda. (Of course the Nazi obsession with Jews continues to this day, because morons can't break their habits.)
Was co-opted by a few folks who claim to be Jewish online in order to "Troll" the Nazis. Was picked up by several prominent Jewish stars in Hollywood as an attempt to reclaim "Pride" in being Jewish, akin to AA's and the word nigger.
Therefore the symbol was a double edged sword, if Trump had known and denounced, he was against Jewish people. If he had known and supported, he was In favor of Nazis.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
That's the thing
It is possible, I don't know how likely, but it is possible that Trump is a plant. If I knew for sure that he was a plant than I would prefer him over Hillary. I would find some satisfaction in seeing their plan backfire. On the other hand, of course, Donald could be a for real clueless, bombastic, neofascist. If everybody just voted for Jill Stein we could get out of this mess.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Plant
Don't dismiss the possibility that Trump's a dupe unaware that he's a plant. But I can't imagine a candidate for president attacking the Gold Star mother of an officer who died protecting his troops. Trump is all sorts of vulgar, misogynistic, and bigoted things. But Trump is not THAT stupid.
This may be the most entertaining question of the campaign.
two things in his favor
1) it was very much an anti-establishment year with voters. disaffected working class voters tired of more of the same and neither party working to improve their economic condition.
2) no Republican superdelegates.
Trump saw the opening and took advantage of both. He may not have the background of an experienced politician but he skillfully flanked the Republican party and looks to do the same with the Democratic party.
So all these Repukes are voting for Hillary
because Trump is imploding. And all the Dems/Indies who support Bernie aren't voting for Hillary. I think that means Hillary is a Repuke, amirite? Is it possible no one will win?
Hopefully.
I'll work like hell for Jill Stein between now and November,
in hopes she can win. If it's predicted to be Hill by a landslide, I'll vote Jill. If it's predicted that Jill can win it, I'll vote Jill. But if it's a squeaker, my state is likely to be a swing state, yes, I will hold my nose and vote Hill to prevent Trump.
I've started to look into the foreign policy issue, and Trump has said we should kill all the terrorists and their families. Like an old Mafioso. In violation of international law, of course!
We've gone too far down the slippery slope already. Thanks, Obama, for letting Bush/Cheney get away with torture and continuing the endless war! Let's not go any further down that slope.
What's next, torture and/or kill the children in front of their parents to get the parents to talk?
I know, there are no good answers. But that's my thinking right now. They're both terrible, so let's elect Jill. But we can't just take a few votes away from Clinton, we have to go for the win. If we can't win, we might as well not play.
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Elena, we are already killing the terrorists and their families
In violation of international law. We are helping Saudi Arabia kill thousands of people including children in Yemen after Hillary sold them billions of weapons including cluster munitions.
The UN wanted to sanction Saudi Arabia but they said that if it did then they would stop funding the UN, and Obama backed up SA.
You ask what's next, torture? Yes trump has said that he would water board prisoners, but guess what? Obama only said that he ended torture.
He lied. It's still happening at baghram air base, on navy ships and other black sites.
The whole damned war on terror is a lie.
We and our allies are funding ISIL and other terrorists organizations in Syria and other countries.
This article backs this up.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/europe-is-harbouring-the-islamic...
I sent you a lot of links to articles and websites and hopefully you have read them.
What Hillary did during her time as SOS is just a preview of what she is going to do if she's president.
Just look at all the neoconservative that are on her campaign and have endorsed her because of her foreign policy.
Hillary is a threat to humanity.
And there are rumors that she has already made a deal with the republicans to privatize social security.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.
I know, Snoops, thanks! Granted that there is only a smidgen
of difference between them. The psychopath or the sociopath? Hopefully Jill will surge and then we won't have to worry about either of them.
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Jill, not Hill.
The next US Foreign/Military policy
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-next-u-s-foreignmilitary-policy-the-ind...
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.
These Repubs are going against their own party to
openly declare for the opposition candidate.
Just what sweet nothings and sotto voce promises were whispered in their ears from the Clinton crowd to entice their votes away from their own party?
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
Bernie Trump supporters are a minority within a minority.
Out of the 36 percent that are not on the Clinton bandwagon. Only 3 percent plan to vote for Trump.
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/760697141295734785
Trump favorables amongst Bernie supporters are 5 percent positive, 90 percent negative, and 5 percent undecided.
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/760681242337677312
In 2008, I suspect a larger number of Clinton supporters voted for McCain than Sanders supporters will vote for Trump in 2016. The bigger issue is with the no votes and third party votes.
The Republicans are disciplined and consistent in their votes.
They always follow the agenda of the Neocons, spending more than half of all government revenues to fund their quest for the US global Empire. To achieve this, they destabilize nations, topple governments, and dislocate tens of millions of people yearly. Republicans have always vote for this hideous evil. And they will do so in 2016.
Naturally, these soulless monsters will cling to Hillary, since she is the only Neocon in the race. She has long demonstrated her full embrace of this rash and dangerous sociopathic ideology.
Any other presidential pick, for serious Republicans, is inconceivable.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Nothing Changes Until Both Parties Are Destroyed
and by destroyed I mean they lose the massive support of the DemBots and the RepubBots -- Fools All.
Vote third party folks. It's time to start building the replacement party. Only this will replace the two corpro-fascist duo parties. NOT VOTING is for fools.
Was just watching this Democracy Now debate from July 26. Time well spent if you have a free half hour.
Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order
http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16456 [transcript and video]
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
That was a great discussion
I think that's where I heard Hedges say something to the effect of: "I used to be an investigative journalist until that profession ceased to exist. Now all we have is wikileaks"
Try this discussion also from Democracy Now. All I can say is go Kshama!
Kshama Sawant vs. Rebecca Traister on Clinton, DNC & Possibility of a Female President
part 1 about 20 min (there's some Clinton speech at the front just fast forward if you can't take it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-yZbjZ_VOo
Part 2 about 10 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7itD4JvHi1U
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I love Hedges, but I hope he's wrong.
I have to admit that all of what I read, no matter where,
that means also here, is making me deeply sick and it's time for me to stop it for a while.
Here my response Al. I agree on not voting for anyone.
My hope is that Trump will quit his campaign, if more of his pathological personality features are revealed, mocked, attacked and criticized and recognized as dangerous and unacceptable for a position whit that kind or power like the US Presidency. I can only hope that sane folks help on the way to make him "deflate and quit".
Considering that will happen, we are left with Clinton and turmoil in the Republican Party. No matter what the turmoil is, bottom line would be to vote your conscience. No matter what, it's your conscience that should drive a voter, not some strategic thinking or belief in "lesser evil" and all that idiocy. You have to be able to live with your vote. Remember that.
From what I have learned about "The Clintons" and H. Clinton's foreign policy "activities", my conscience clearly tell me, that I will never vote for Hillary Clinton and I will be relieved if both Clintons would retire and live their private lives..
That leaves me with Third Party and Jill Stein. Though I might give it thought, if I could vote in this country, I come more and more to the conclusion that I don't know enough about her and I don't really know enough, in hind-sight, about Bernie Sanders. From an enthusiastic supporter of Sanders I end up being a big-eyed question mark about anything that happened with and to Sanders and what is decided now by the Jill Stein campaign. I simply don't understand both yet enough to make a decision.
I can't believe that I might have misjudged Sanders. Sanders needs to talk about what drove him to stop fighting before it was necessary. Sanders needs to talk about what it is that drove him not to support Jill Stein. As long as that doesn't become clear, I have no hope a Third Party will form.
If there is no Third Party, there is nothing you can vote on.
I have to say that the amount of hateful emotions on all sides of all the aisles are mind boggling and to me very destructive.To believe that the Trump campaign was planned to help Clinton win, is a folly, imo. I can't follow anymore some people's mind. May be I can't let myself drawn into that much destructive CT thinking, if it is believed to be a CT plan. I think it's so much self-defeating and self-destructive, that one should leave it behind to save one's own emotional well being.
I think that the last 16 years in particular and the last thirty years on a more vague level (as I didn't look through the political procedures in this country) has destroyed a lot in me personally. I am not over that yet.
So, I wish you all luck with deciding how you will try to deal with your own country's politicians and system.
My conscience right now tells me, do not support any of it and hide behind the bushes til somehow the nightmare plays itself to the end and is over. Don't fall for the attack that "doing nothing" and "not voting" will enable the evil doers. Doing something and voting for something will as well enable those supposed evil doers. Wait for how it plays out and when the next evil doer is messing around in the White House and Congress and all those "unknown knowns" of the "Deep State" that would be better remain "unknown unknowns", then you continue the fight to "throw them out" or "push them to do the right thing".
What a sad statement to make.
Have a good day, folly or not, it doesn't seem to be in your hands anymore.
There is an end to everything. That's my only consolation.
I have no answers, but...
I do have some observations. Among those is the idea that the Sanders Campaign revealed the depth of corruption in the system and the Democratic party. For the first time in my memory during a presidential election banks, companies, and families were called out by name as working against the common good. These are the most powerful forces in this country (and perhaps the world). What chance did we ever have of taking away their power? I imagine them in their ivory towers laughing at the old Jewish guy and all his supporters.
I think if big media was interested in true reporting we might stand a chance. However a blind populous has no idea they are being scammed. For my view all we can do is try, like Bernie, to speak truth to power and help the average citizen understand the collusion, distortion, and corruption so prevalent in this country and world. Speak up, speak out, before we are silenced.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
true, and that's what most people do here every day
with their writing and discussions. Just don't let yourself dragged into sort of despair reactions and thoughts that are self-destructive. I am a sort of "faint of heart" ...and all of it just might not be for people like me ...
[video:https://youtu.be/sbrG7ye1joM]
I know exactly what you mean.
It can be a very depressing thing to confront all the time. There aren't any easy answers. Try not to let it get you down.
If its any consolation, I suspect that there will inevitably some swing towards progressive change even with Hillary around. It may not happen immediately, but the mood of the country is changing as we speak. It's easy to lose track of that in the immediacy of some events, but its true.
People do want change.
They absolutely know they're being scammed.
Why do you think 55-60% of the electorate despises both candidates?
Coincidentally, 55% of the electorate also feels "helpless" in regard to the election.
Roughly 55%-60% of the electorate absolutely knows they're being scammed. Those Americans not in the electorate? Well, it's harder to tell, b/c people don't poll them as much, but if you're not involved, to my mind, there's a greater chance that you're cynical about the system.
Sometime take a gander at Gallup's poll, which they do fairly frequently, about which institutions people have faith in. Right now, neither the media, the government, big business (corporations), banks, or labor unions have the peoples' trust (some labor unions don't deserve the distrust, but IMO, a lot of them do--look at how they've rallied behind the Clintons, often without even asking their membership what *they* want.)
There are still institutions that people trust (I think that trust is misguided), but not many.
The idea that we are voices in the wilderness is seriously outdated; it's just that democracy has fallen (or, if you want to be more technically correct, a corrupt republic that provided some representation to many of its citizens has turned into a full-fledged oligarchy.)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
A 4 way race is possible
In the unlikely event that the rigging wasn't so bad. That would probably throw the choice for President to the Congress and they'll choose Hillary. The only other President to be appointed that way was John Quincy Adams in 1824 when Andrew Jackson won a plurality but not enough electoral votes. Adams was a former Secretary of State. From Wikipedia:
I'd rather Hillary "win" that way.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Jill over Hill, the conservs
Jill over Hill, the conservs can have the others. We need to steer left, we are going in right-spinning circles as a "ship of state" time to end the duopoly-monopoly over the political system, they can no longer be trusted.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
I'm in total agreement.
My boyfriend, long ago, wanted to start a No Confidence party. I, personally, think Giant Meteor is a good candidate for the top of the No Confidence ticket, but he says Giant Meteor should at best be a Veep.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
RE: groundswell of protest
My impression? People don't believe "protest" does jack or shit, and unfortunately, there's a lot of evidence to support their belief.
Protest will only get a response if the PTB believe that, once the protest is ignored, the protesters will then up the ante by doing something that will actually throw a wrench into the workings of the machine.
I'm not advocating wrench-throwing here; just saying that the time when anyone, even politicians, had to take rallies and sign-waving seriously is long gone.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
That's why they're watching all of us
They don't seem to get the real mass-murderers, though, somehow (helps with their budget requests?). Or too busy eavesdropping on us.