Sanders says leaked DNC emails don't change his support for Clinton
Bernie Sanders said he will still support Hillary Clinton for president despite leaked emails that showed Democratic Party leaders privately planned to undermine his presidential campaign.
"No, no, no," Sanders said in response to a question on NBC's "Meet the Press" about whether the emails affect his support of the presumptive Democratic nominee. "We are going to do everything we can to protect working families in this country. What a campaign is about is not about Hillary Clinton, it's not about Donald Trump. It's about the people of this country."
Sanders called Clinton, whom he formally endorsed earlier this month, a "far, far superior candidate" to Trump. "We're going to focus on defeating the worst Republican candidate I've seen in a lifetime. We've got to elect Secretary Clinton."
Emails leaked Friday by WikiLeaks reignited talks of party favoritism for Clinton just ahead of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia next week. In one May 21 email, DNC press secretary Mark Paustenbach writes to communications director Luis Miranda about planting a narrative to the media that Sanders’s “campaign was a mess.”
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/289010-sanders-sa...
***
Some 'revolution'. I am so damn past this shit. Oh well. Sanders wants us all to vote for Shills now so I guess that's what all of us should do, huh?
Comments
I think he knows
that is doesn't matter at this point. I think he fully understands that many of his supporters aren't going to vote for her no matter what. This serves as something as a shield for him. Grandma Yuppie and crew cannot accuse him of squat. All that she can do is attempt to shift blame to the Russians, Jimmy Hoffa or the Keebler Elves.
Why should he denounce her? Why get into an unproductive pissing match when someone else is going to do it for you?
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I'm sure Hillary has a lot of hate inside for Bernie
He messed up her beautiful coronation.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Why? Maybe to show some backbone? To redeem himself after the
whopper about "taking it to all the way to the convention" that garnered him supporters and record setting numbers of small donations from the people who thought he would keep his word to THEM. Instead his loyalty ends up with Shills and the corrupt 'Democratic' Party regardless of what news comes out about their lies and the way they cheated. There's an old phrase about leaving the dance with the one that brought you. Well apparently his supporters need to find another ride home because the driver of this car found himself another date.
Vote Green.
Hope he's still not asking for donations. He isn't, is he?
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Hear! Hear!
And to follow through on his commitment and responsibility to the millions of young voters whose skepticism he overcame with his integrity and commitment. His full-throated support for the very corruption he decried during his campaign will foment more cynicism in the young. He is telling them, it is futile. Don't bother to fight. Trying to convince the young and the wise that party platform rhetoric and keeping the toxic DWS out of sight are "progress." I cannot express how completely disappointed I am in Bernie Sanders. I think he has done much more harm to the nation with this cynical capitulation than all of the good of his campaign. To end it this way is to say, psych. Everyone can be corrupted.
Now, I vainly hold out hope that he has a trick up his sleeve, but I think that is a foolish hope. I think he truly has betrayed us. To be clear, my complaint is with his unwillingness to stand against the corruption of the electoral process. He knows as well as anyone that without free and fair elections, we have nothing. Sad that it apparently means so little to him.
But he had to endorse to make
But he had to endorse to make it to the Convention! Otherwise he'd have been stripped of delegate power and shut out of everything. So he did the classic Bernie 'work with what he has to do the best he can for The People'.
And look at the results, triggering an immediate 1000% increase in Green Party donations, among other things, while keeping issues important to the people in the public eye and conversation.
When tackling a powerful, many-tentacled monster intent on global subjugation, strategy is essential - why can so many people not seem to see this?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
But is that what people donated their scarce funds to him to do?
Is that what people, especially those whose economic position is already precarious, were expecting to happen when they donated their money, time, and energy?
If not, obviously there's going to be some feeling of bait-and-switch.
What exactly did they expect? A miracle?
Not saying people didn't make sacrifices to contribute money. I know I did. I also put in every minute I had available in volunteering my time. But there are a hell of a lot more sacrifices to be made if we want to achieve a just society.
I think Bernie also put in every ounce of energy he had into a campaign he knew he couldn't win. But he took advantage of the opportunity to wake people up. Not me, us, is what he told us from the start. It's time for people to get out from behind their keyboards and start organizing for Jill and for the future. Don't get mad, get even. The revolution is just beginning.
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings
Bernie's truthfulness and principles
are what drew people to him. The belief that here was a politician we could truly trust to stand up for what he believes. And he earned that trust and respect. His silence on the corruption of the DNC as recently exposed is a retreat from those principles and truthfulness. It is really that simple, to me, at least.
It's unfortunate that you feel that way
Blaming Bernie for the dishonesty of the DNC seems counterintuitive to me. I mean what can he say now that has't been said? For the last year he's been telling us the system is rigged. What could he say now that would change the mind of a single individual? Complaining about how he was cheated would be seen either as CT or sour grapes. In either case he loses. So he remains silent. Not the worst of things he could do. Let others make the case now about the corruption.
Besides we're not in his shoes, and have no idea what pressure has been put on him. My personal theory is that they have threatened his family, which I wouldn't put past the Clintons for a second. Whatever the case may be, I for one will not question his integrity.
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings
What don't you understand?
He is endorsing that corruption. That is the issue. You don't have a problem with endorsing Clinton and telling his supporters to vote for her in the face of the evidence that she and the DNC rigged the election? Are we now in the habit of embracing rigged elections? I'm confounded by your comment.
If they have threatened his family, the best protection is to go public with that information. Of course, this is speculation. If it were true, then, yes, he should get a pass.
I believe she got to him.
As she has gotten to so many others.
He is a man of integrity who is endorsing corruption and IMHO criminal enterprise.
Many here are angry. I am sad.
I keep trying not to judge Bernie - yet, but
I can't help but ask WTF is the matter with him? I am rapidly losing respect. Yah, yah, I appreciate what he did do, but what the hell is he doing now? Where is his self-respect, his moral outrage for himself, us, the country, all of the young and poor people that gave him everything they had only to have their vote, candidate and futures stolen? Rules for next time so it won't happen again is such bullshit. The Clintons and the DP broke every existing rule without a second thought.
Maybe Bernie is a just a sheepdog after all. He abandoned principle and voted for ACA because he declared it to be better than the alternative, and he needed to be "stronger together" with Obama and the Democrats.
Nope only am I feeling snookered by the GD Democrats, I am starting to feel snookered by Bernie.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Maybe they're holding Jane somewhere
and threatening to send him an ear. Gotta be something. He's not happy.
DWS is resigning after the convention...
It isn't enough. Hillary cannot keep what she stole. Hillary has to go. No Unity.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Maybe we should wait to hear him Monday
before we condemn him. He wouldn't have that prime time speaking slot if they didn't think he would be no threat. Let's see wbat he says.
He has to know that the Kochs and Wall St own her, and that she's a mad warmonger.
You're not voting for Hillary, are you?
Then I rest my case. You're wasting your time holding onto bitterness; you don't deserve to be sick from this.
He held out as long as he could and then he had to keep two other promises. One to defeat Trump and part of an agreement made to the DNC. He was fucked over by the DNC, but he is doing his best to take the high road. Like I said. He knows you and me, are not going to vote for Hillary come hell or high water, and for what it is worth, he knows a significant number aren't as well.
Additionally, he still has not conceded. In endorsing her, he has forced her to make his platform her own.
If he is asking for donations, it is for down ballot candidates. That is what the continued emails I get from him are asking.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
If Bernie doesn't have a strategy and is just going along,
If Michigan is close, I will vote for Trump. If Michigan isn't close, I will vote for Jill. The number one priority the way I see it is to make the Clintons and the corrupt neoliberals running our party and stealing our elections lose. I am reserving my judgement on Bernie until after the convention. DWS head on a stick isn't enough. Hillary cannot keep what she stole.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
No. We were
F...ked over by the DNC and now, Bernie. His keeps his word to a traitor, liar, cheater, warmonger, and neocon, but his loving supporters don't count in this equation? He's toast! He's either too stupid to tell friend from enemy or a sheepdog, like others have pointed out.
His word is a contract
when it came to light the DNC did rig the election, that shows that the DNC did not keep its word or duty to those eligible to vote in the Dem primary. Only a fool keeps his word to a scoundrel. CLinton's and the DNC's behavior emancipates him from any promise he made. I think few people would think he (or anyone else in a similar circumstance) would feel an obligation to keep their word to crooks.
His platform went right out the window when she chose Kaine.
He already got rolled on my his once. The big-ticket important things like no TPP and no fracking were turned down. And after this election he's gonna have asmuch influence as Dennis Kucinich. Remember him? The last guy who tried to buck the crooks, liars, and ethical bankrupts that make up the DNC.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Trump might be about to steal
Trump might be about to steal some of his platform, too, which is gonna be a problem for him campaigning for Hillary. Trump already agrees on trade and military spending and anti-corruption. Sure he's lying but he said he agrees with that stuff publicly. If he comes out for election reform Sanders will be in a real pickle.
Dupe. *sigh*
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
What am I missing?
Bernie's not at the convention? A few more:
1. Point to where he said he wants "us" to vote for Hillary.
2. Explain what empty self defeating gesture will "show some backbone" without alienating him from the remaining power and influence he has in the Democratic party. How will burning bridges help the political revolution he started?
3. What word didn't Bernie keep to the "supporters and record setting numbers of small donations from the people who thought he would keep his word to THEM"? Didn't he specifically he state that he wanted to start a political revolution and intended to do what was necessary to ensure that Trump is not president? Are there any other imaginary commitments he failed to meet? Isn't that what you're pissed about?
4. So his "loyalty ends up with Shills and the corrupt 'Democratic' Party"? I don't see it but I'll be happy to look at your evidence.
5. Who are you to demand that anyone "redeem himself"? I'm not sure the guy who got over 13 million votes in the primary against such intense friendly fire, brought out millions who have never voted or had given up on politics, and showed us how corrupt the Democratic Party and the political system are owes any of us fuck all. On the contrary I think we owe him some gratitude for changing the view of electoral politics and the system for so many in this country and a little space to show where he's going with this revolution thing. Lets talk around the first of the year. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Maybe we'll have a small clue around then. We have a beginning of a revolution that may or may not take off. So why is it so many of us want to start the festivities that come with the end of the struggle?. I really don't get how anyone thinks the fight should be over.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
All Jill needs is 35 - 40% to win.
I don't think Trump is going to get above 33% or so despite all his talk about getting disgruntled Bernie supporters. If Jill can get on the debate stage with a 15% polling number, then she can show that she's for real and she's got this election. Of course we would have to back up Jill with massive election monitoring.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I don't think there is any chance that the people who
run this country are going to let Jill Stein have a day in the Sun. They got burned when they gave a mic to Sanders. They won't make that mistake again.
Sorry to be so cynical, but there it is.
Just made my first donation to Dr. Stein's campaign...
And volunteered. Sigh. Here we go again, getting our hopes up. Sigh. But what else is there? Dr. Stein inherits the revolution… if she can keep it.
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
Do you have a local?
Have you been to any state plenary meetings?
These are the important questions to answer when you're a Green.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
Hey, I've just been Green for 10 minutes! ;->
Got two auto-emails, that's the extent of my contact.
If my work for Sen. Sanders is any guide, we'll be tabling at the mall with our home-grown materials to show and hand out.
The Sanders2016 wasn't terrifically organized, and they had 100's $M… I'm doubting that Dr. Stein's is much better - but we'll make do.
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
You used to be able to find your local --
off of the gp.org webpage, and from there to the state party pages -- it might pay to ask what's up about that.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
"Dr. Stein inherits the revolution… if she can keep it."
Right. It won't be easy.
But the 35-40% in enough states WOULD win the election. Difficult, but not impossible.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
You mean 51%. She needs 51%
You mean 51%. She needs 51% to win.
If no one gets a majority, the House picks. Not to fearmonger, but they ain't gonna pick Stein.
Oh, and she'll be lucky to get 5% IMO. Last time she didn't even crack 0.5%.
If no one gets 270 the House
If no one gets 270 the House will pick. Given how much they love Trump and Hillary it could be someone else. Supporting Stein is crucial to keep the movement alive. A Trump win will keep it alive, the Clinton's will work to kill it.
That would actually be OK with me
If Jill Stein made a statement by winning a plurality and having it robbed from her by the establishment parties, then bye-bye establishment parties.
Beware the bullshit factories.
With carefully recorded
With carefully recorded evidence for lawsuits, mass protests and whatever the heck it is you do to avoid a fraudulently elected leader being accepted by the rest of the world, (drat, read something about that when seriously over-tired and don't recall anything about it now,) that could work well.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Relax. The electoral college works on plurality, not majority
except for 2 states and I don't remember which ones those are. In a 4-way race, 35-40% could very well be the highest number.
It is also true that the president is chosen by the NEW congress. Each state gets one vote and it takes 26 votes to be elected president in a contingent election. If we assume that Representatives will vote the way their constituents did, then a bundle of sparsely populated states could decide the election.
Then there are the red states where a lot of the people are anti-Clinton and anti-Trump. In those areas, the real contest would be between the Greens and the Libertarians.
My point is that nothing is cut and dried at this point. There are possibilities.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Less than that if Gary
Less than that if Gary Johnson does well too. 26% maybe.
Are we going to turn on Jill
like some of us have turned on Bernie when she fails to get 35-40%?
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Who has turned on Bernie because he failed to get
the required majority of delegates for the nomination?
AAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!
* banging head against the wall *
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Yup, that's pretty much my reaction as well. :/
Fuck a duck. This sucks all kinds of shit.
I miss Colorado.
I just don't know
How he finds the Trump Presidency more dangerous than a Hillary one? Because I'm assuming that is why he is subjugating himself in this way.
Right?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I don't understand...
How's he's convinced that supporting HRC is a better route to defeating the Drumph. The electorate is split about in 1/3's of those that support the Drumph, the Hilldebeast, and those that are crying out for another choice. Why not be part of that latter group, which is almost certainly to grow dramatically, as this the filthiest campaign the country is likely to have ever seen commences.
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
The best way to fight any
The best way to fight any sort of revolution is not always by spitting defiance at a powerful enemy in order to have yourself silenced immediately. Sometimes you have to mouth things you may not believe yourself in order to gain or retain a position from which you can achieve good.
Please, some of us have to read history and realize that this is not just another election.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Yeah we need to remember that! Join and actively support the
enemy and everything you say you're against so you can keep on 'fighting'.
How about REALLY having the courage of one's convictions for a change?
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
That's the spirit that got
That's the spirit that got those bravely risking everything to gain essential information from the Nazis for the Resistance killed by unthinking patriots during and after the war, because they assumed that these just must be collaborators, since some others were - even though they may have in actuality saved many lives. Finding out too late what an ... embarrassing mistake? it was killing heroes?
When in doubt, go by character and principles, not by the fact that some others are corrupt or weak.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
No more waiting...
People are ready now, and the circumstances are right. To goal is to burn both parties to the ground and start all over with a handful of politicians that aren't corrupt - yet. You play the long game. Bernie will play the inside game. The rest of us will get the pitch forks and gasoline - figuratively speaking.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
You're comparing
a political movement for change in the US in 2016 to Nazi Germany? Really? Perhaps you can flesh out your argument to save it from absurdity?
Hillary isn't a revolution.
Hillary isn't a revolution. She is the sameold sameold! Trump is infact more revolutionary than her.
Dunno who called Hillary a
Dunno who called Hillary a 'revolution' - did spell-check mess up 'revolting' again?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Creditability
Bernie committed to the Democratic Party last year, to change again now would destroy his creditability and provide ammunition for opponents to marginalize him. Staying in the party after the leaked DNC e-mails comes with some risk as the e-mails destroy the party and any shred of creditability they had remaining. The choice of Kaine laid down the gauntlet, the Clinton's sent the signal they are going to do it their way, no matter what the voters want.
It will only encourage an exodus that was gaining steam. At this point we need more of the lieutenants in the Sander's movement to get onboard with Stein.
Ordinarily I would agree
But I think this latest #DNCLeaks revelation lets him off the hook. No one could've predicted it when he made his promise. It's called extenuating circumstances. As in being fucked in the ass with a 2 x 4 by Hillary Clnton. No one expects you to take it.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
You say,
That doesn't sound like Bernie's view, if you heard his interview earlier today with George. (to my ears)
He was explicit today in saying, 'we have to elect Hillary Clinton.'
He also added that, 'we have to keep bringing people in (the Democratic Party).'
We'll never know, but it could be that one reason Bernie made the declaration from the get-go--about supporting the eventual Dem Party nominee--was so that he would not be expected to lead a floor fight for the nomination at the Convention.
Having said that, I fully understand his rationale, having retired from the federal system. The Dem Party Establishment would likely destroy him--politically, career-wise, and financially. (IMO) How does one recover from that at his age?
One more thing to remember--when you're dealing with the federal government, an adverse action taken is usually, if not always, going to involve more than one person, or entity.
IOW, whether intended or not, the consequences of 'fighting the system' usually radiates to many other folks, and or entities/agencies.
So, we're not talking about just a Bernie versus FSC situation. Nothing occurs in a vacuum. Bernie understands this.
Postscript: Regarding the superdelegate rules--there will be no 'minority report.' Instead, a Commission will look into this matter beginning in January 2017, well after the Convention and GE.
So, my takeaway is that the same thing applies here--Jeff Weaver and Bernie's campaign realize that there is only so far that they can (safely) go.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
So you're going to let the bully intimidate you?
I suppose that is one way. Given the bully you describe, waiting won't ever give you a better shot. It will never be any weaker or more benevolent than it is right now. That leaves the choice of "living on your knees or dying on your feet".
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
No intimidation necessary, really.
Like Sanders, they're asking, "Please, can we hand our asses to you?"
The more I hear it's about us not him, the more it becomes about defending the cave in to Clinton. At this point Sanders is about feelings, not power. They wouldn't know what to do with power any more than Sanders, who had power laid before him and gave it away to the evil he pretended to stand against.
It's going to take a while before all this sinks in to a lot of minds. Even his suicide tomorrow night won't do it.
“If there is no justice for the people, may there be no peace for the government.”
If you're saying that there could have been 'parameters' set up
from the beginning, so that intimidation is not necessary--I'd say that it isn't necessarily beyond the pale.
AP filed a report on 24 July, regarding the fight over superdelegate rules, saying--
[This is a paraphrase, not an exact quote. Here's the link.]
Sorta makes me wonder . . .
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I absolutely agree with everything you said.
I am beginning to think Sanders is a sheepdog. I just question anyone that is going to vote for Hillary. Remember "anybody but Bush"? Well, it is full circle to "anyone but Hillary".
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Bullies
that is exactly what the Clintons are. Every time you give into a bully, it emboldens them. The way to stop the bully is to stand up to theim and refuse to give in. Yes, in the short term, there may be some pain, but the cycle of bullying must be broken.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
DK, winning a federal suit was one of the most defining
experiences of my lifetime.
I recently mentioned this to one of our C99P members who has a background in union work. My own suit came about because I stood up against the PtB who attempted to retaliate against me, when I exposed systemic corruption in a 'whistleblower-type case.'
(IOW, I was the Plaintiff in a suit filed against a branch of military service, a major Command, and the Commander of a military installation. Above, I differentiate with the use of the word 'type,' because there were two elements at play--and, only one aspect involved public corruption.)
Bottom line, if Bernie wants to 'fight' the PtB, he would likely need to be prepared for years of litigation. And, IMO, that 'might be' hard on a person who is 74 (?) years of age.
When I filed suit, I wasn't even 30 years old; I was also fortunate that the litigation only dragged out for three years. It could have been much longer, but the decision and award handed down in my favor were resounding--so, the Feds did not appeal.
Hey, am I disappointed and saddened by the recent turn of events--Bernie's endorsement of FSC's candidacy, the 'throwing off' of both email scandals, the strong possibility that he will hit the campaign trail for her, etc.?
Yes, I am. But, I'm not surprised.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Jill Stein Nailed It
Here's what she said in an interview with USUncut:
I think the speech tomorrow night will be painful to watch. Hillary will make a "great" president? Please. Memo to Bernie: Licking the master's boot that just kicked you in the teeth is not the way to start a revolution.
#JustSayNoToEvilHillary
inactive account
So what happened --
in that alleged meeting between Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders anyway, if anything?
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
If they had a meeting...
it's news to me. Stein has reached out to Sanders repeatedly for the past five or six years, attempting to start some kind of dialog, but to my knowledge he has never responded to or acknowledged her in any way. Apparently for Bernie
When you're a Dem,
You're a Dem all the way
From your first cigarette
To your last dying day.
Because, you know, the Sharks are so much worse.
inactive account
No, Bernie doesn't "want" us
To vote for Hillary.
He's often said that its up to her to convince us to vote for her.
And she's doing a bang up job, isn't she?
wut? Not asked asking his supporters to vote for her???
FROM THE ARTICLE
Sanders called Clinton, whom he formally endorsed earlier this month, a "far, far superior candidate" to Trump. "We're going to focus on defeating the worst Republican candidate I've seen in a lifetime. We've got to elect Secretary Clinton."
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Where ...
does he or did he ask his supporters to vote for Clinton? He said what he's going to do, defeat Trump, elect Clinton. I haven't seen anything where he tells us what to do. I'm not talking about some puff piece in Huffington Post claiming he did, or some 3rd person saying he said to vote for Hillary. Where exactly did Bernie Sanders himself tell or ask his supporters to vote for Hillary Clinton?
References: Bernie Sanders Endorsement Transcript
He hasn't
but Amanda keeps beating this drum.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Beating what drum? The one that keeps time to
Sanders "We must elect Hillary Clinton."
I don't know what your first language is, but mine is English and if that's also the language Sanders speaks then there is nothing in that statement that can be construed as telling people to vote for anyone else but Hillary Clinton. That's what the "We must elect" part is all about.
The true tell will be his convention speech.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I think you're playing semantic games
and getting awfully close to, it depends on what the meaning of is, is.
He committed before the DNC and the Clinton campaign
started sabotaging his campaign. That should have changed everything. EVERYTHING. He owes them nothing because all they did for him was cause him harm. The scum insinuated his entire political was a fraud.
Within six months they'll have him totally Kuciniched.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Yes
it's not the endorsement of Clinton that is beyond the pale, but the tacit endorsement of the corrupted process that gave her the nomination. I can't forgive him for that. That's a betrayal of everything he claimed to stand for during this campaign.
^^ This. ^^
I so agree
If you endorse a person who used a corrupt process against you, you have given away your own integrity as a result. Bernie has proof via the Wikileaks thus far released, that the DNC was operating directly with the Clinton campaign to defeat him. Now he continues to endorse and and as a result endorses corruption. This is exactly how the Clintons win. They win by making other people give up their own integrity for them (the Clintons).
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Bernie knows our two party system is a sewer of patronage
cronyism and corruption - why do you suppose he chose to maintain the political equivalent of a single house septic system all these years? So, I understand that his reaction to the underhanded machinations of the DNC is a big "Duh!" .
He had greater success than anyone could imagine and if he chooses, he could still become a game changer of history. Here's how I think he could manage it:
He could say, as he has, that the major goal this time around is to defeat Donald Trump and that there is one logical, direct way to do that with the greatest chance of success - voting for Hillary*. I would say that is simply restating a fact. But what I personally would want him to do to embroider on that is to add something like, "I have some exciting plans that I will share with you all AFTER this cycle of elections." Then he can smile cryptically.
(*a percentage of Sanders voters will not vote for Hillary under any circumstances regardless of what Bernie or anyone else advises - they will sit out, write-in Bernie, or vote Green)
After the elections he needs to start his own third Party or lead a migration of Liberal Democrats to the Greens with the idea of being a powerful part of the 2018 elections. That's what will work to change our society for the better.
What will not work is to start some stupid liberal think tank or documentary producer or some "progressive" PAC that Bernie controls that functions under the Democratic Party umbrella or alongside it. Not interested and that route will dissipate his influence and legacy as a powerful, historic, Liberal leader.
But, he did show the way:
individual small donations
social media and web presence
strong, sincere, non-apologetic liberal platform that speaks to the 99%
I think it's possible that on the next go round we simply won't care what the major parties or the MSM have to say about anything, because we will be completely side-stepping them.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
He will have forfeited his standing
and all good will by allowing the corruption that has been exposed to go unchecked. I sincerely think Sanders is done if he does reverse course. He will have lost all credibility. No one's interested in playing the games you set forth in your scenario, least of all the candidate who railed against the corruption in our political system. And his marginalization is an added bonus for Clinton and the Dem establishment.
Unchecked by whom?
Stamp your feet? Yell loudly? Post it on a blog? Virtual pitchforks and torches was suggested.
Oh you meant Bernie. So, he loudly departs the Democratic Party. You and all who think he's a sell out or too meek feel good. He made an empty gesture that gains, uh, well, what? What does it bring to the political revolution he claims to be building?
I'm waiting for an answer. Nobody seems to be willing to take a stab at an answer. The closest is fantasy porn of Bernie & Jill join forces, win the presidency, and the world is safe from tyranny. The End.
Face it. People are disappointed, pissed off, and don't know what to do other than run in circles, scream, and shout. It's all because they don't understand what a guy they followed for fifteen months is doing or why. Sometime we have to just wait it out.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
You wanna be snide?
Or do you want to haev a discussion? You claim to want answers but your tone betrays your assertion. It is you, physician, who appears to be "run[ning] in circles, scream[ing], and shout[ing]" judging by your tone. Heal thyself.
You may think that raising the issue of the corrupted democratic primary is an empty gesture. You're entitled to those ethics. But Bernie Sanders is the only national figure whose voice could overcome the compliant press, not least of all because he is the aggrieved party (along with all of those who voted for and/or supported him). You will note that neither Clinton nor Obama chose to even acknowledge the malfeasance of the DNC. You apparently think it should just be ignored, too- as if that's not the emptiest gesture of all! Just let election fraud go unchallenged! As I stated, if Bernie chooses that path he will have forfeited (notice the tense, reader) his place in the revolution for many (I would propose, most) of those who have joined the struggle.
SO, my point- the response you claim to be seeking- is that there will be no movement if he is unwilling to stand up against a rigged election. As is axiomatic, without free elections, we have no democracy. Giving that a pass only puts us further behind. It does nothing to advance the cause. Indeed, it breeds further cynicism and hopelessness. Sanders will have lost his credibility if he betrays that fundamental principle. I also noted that I hope that he has a plan and would wait that out. But it does not appear he does have one. What do you think he can bring to a future cause if he dismisses this fraud as blithely as he has done publicly thus far?
Excuse me.
You did not even attempt to answer the question. Unchecked by whom?
Your words: "neither Clinton nor Obama chose to even acknowledge the malfeasance of the DNC." They ain't gonna acknowledge shit. They don't have to. The Clintons at least are at the root of it all. What would they say? "Oops my bad. Sorry." The media has barely acknowledged the existence of Bernie let alone the Wikileaked email scandal, the election fraud, rigged primaries, DNC collusion with the Clinton campaign, or any of it. Just about the only media attention has been to briefly mention the items too blatant to completely ignore then to quickly dismiss them as unsubstantiated and/or hard feelings. So now that Bernie "is the aggrieved party" he will magically get massive media attention due to his aggrieved status? You seriously buy that? Absurd.
The empty gesture would be using his convention speaking slot to burn his inside position with the party to do what exactly? What is he going to get from bringing up all the shit from the primaries besides wrecking whatever influence he has remaining in the party? How is that going to do anything but sooth the butt hurt of those who hate the damning with faint praise endorsement and his choice to let the actions against him in the primary stand on their own with followers and potential converts? What does looking like an angry, disgruntled old man on the TV machine in front of millions do to further his revolution? Yes, that's what he cares about. He's lived his whole life for the purpose of making the lives of people better. You and many here want to throw it away for what again?
Go ahead answer any or all of those questions. I'll even take snide but don't give me magical thinking and unsupported conjecture. And damn sure don't try to throw up, literally, protecting his honor or standing strong against the wrong done him or us. I get it you don't give a hoot about his connection to and with the party. Evidently he does for his own reasons. He cared enough to join the party to run as a Dem instead of running as an independent like he has his whole life. Neither you nor I can know his reasons and I can about guarantee he doesn't care what we think. Rightly so.
You probably couldn't care less but my answer to what spewing at the convention will achieve to further our cause is that it will do the square root of fuck all other than damage it. He would look weak and angry. He would be described in the media that way regardless. He would be doing exactly what the DNC and the Clinton machine want him to do - wreck his image in a weak moment. He's far smarter than that. He does best when he stays on his message and stays positive. Yes, even in the faces of the supreme asshole machine that is the Democratic Party. He's doing his best to keep moving forward and really doesn't have time to work on the many self inflicted hurt feelings of those who followed him for the past fifteen months.
Editted to add: Abandoning Bernie when he needs our support for whatever follows the election is doing the work of the likes of HRC and the Democratic Party by voluntarily delegitmizing Bernie's work in the campaign. Only his followers can effectively say he is a sell out and is no longer a progressive and make it stick. Do whatever is in your heart.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
It was apparent- unchecked by Sanders
You appear to have been asleep when he railed against the corrupt economic system and the corrupt campaign finance system. His primary theme has been to fix the corrupt system so that it operates for the people. How one could rail against those corruptions and give corruption of the actual electoral process a pass is beyond comprehension. That is the problem for Sanders's credibility going forward- when faced with stark evidence of corruption, what do you do? Yes, it's a challenge for him, but I would argue it's one he cannot evade without detriment to his standing. Embracing the candidate who rigged the election can only undermine his credibility. Be clear- my problem was not with his endorsement of Clinton (although I disagreeed with it, I respect that decision). It is endorsing Clinton with the knowledge that she rigged the election and denied the people a fair and free election. That is where my disappointment with Sanders lay.
You appear to hold the "common wisdom" views (I would call them bourgeois) about fear and optics and not upsetting the apple cart. I reject those attitudes. Perhaps this is the core of our disagreement. Playing the ossified game- worrying about optics, worrying about upsetting people, worrying about appearing angry (in short, acting out of fear)- is a loser. You think looking like an angry old man would undermine him? Where have you been? He has been angry at times and he has already been portrayed that way in teh media. You're fearing the breakdown that has already occurred. The people have the ability (as they have demonstrated) to understand anger when it is warranted. (Of course, the comfortable class hates anger; it scares them because they have never understood anger, given their privileged lives. Anger is a threat to their comfort.) And anger at a corrupted electoral process is warranted. It is quelling that anger that is the detriment. It invalidates that righteous anger. And that is a betrayal.
You also place a great deal of value in the "inside game" (the worst tired trope, IMO). What does he gain from an inside position if he loses the confidence of the people who stood behind him? He chose to step into the limelight to start a movement of citizens. There is no role for the people in the "inside game." Bernie has been playing the inside game (successfully, I would argue) for 30 years. If all he wants is to return to that game, with added favor from the insiders for silencing himself in the face of corruption, yes, they will greet him with open arms. But will the people? I suggest they would not. I can certainly speak for myself when I say that we would have to work around Sanders because we know we will not engage the most difficult battles. He would be merely a helpful insider, fighting against the corrupt system, impotent in the face of the challenges we face.
Furthermore, a Clinton administration will do everything it can over the next four years to squelch the movement and to keep Sanders in check (which he will have already indicated he is willing to do). She and the DNC will actively work against us. He is, in short, making a deal with the devil.
You also cannot ignore the current context. We have heard words for the past 30 years, without action. Bernie presented himself as being prepared for action. To back away from action in the face of corruption undermines his entire campaign. You obviously disagree, but I think great majority of his supporters will feel betrayed, especially the young voters who thought they finally had a voice.
On the media, your argument makes no sense. You say on the one hand that the media will not cover it even if he does raise the issue and then argue that they would only marginalize him as angry if he did. So, in your eyes apparently, there's nothing to be done. If you're so afraid of media distortion, you might as well crawl in a cave- or cave on your principles. The media clearly are in the bag, as the emails demonstrate. If you're going to let them dictate your actions, you've already lost the fight. I would argue that this is the atittude that has dictated politics on the left for the past 30 years. It's why all of the leftist organziation are overrun with comfortable class people with no real desire to fight. Keep that powder dry! has been the mantra (which you appear to embrace). The irony of your view is that the media will use Sanders's acquiescence repeatedly to divide his movement. Well, Bernie supports Clinton, so only the deadenders are still battling against her.
Worrying about the media is a cowardly crouch IMO. Look at what has been accomplished with the media's silence. (You seem to forget that, too.) His message was able to pierce the media silence and condescension because the message carried over the din. It was his willingness not to be hampered by the media, not to play the game that you advocate, that has garnered support. His supporters have used social media to get around that blackout.
Sanders was on national news shows yesterday. Had he taken a stand, his message would have gotten out by word of mouth and social media (to say nothing of the actual eyeballs watching the shows). Same with his convention speech. He holds 43% of the delegates at the convention and millions of voters and other supporters. He has the highest favorability of the pres candidates. That wouldn't disappear if he spoke out. I would argue that it would grow stronger in number and commitment.
You continue with your snideness demanding anything but "magical thinking and unsupported conjecture." Typical small-minded attitude. Yes, your conjecture is meritorious, notwithstanding that you have offered no support. But opposing views are absurd or magical thinking. I will offer this support to you- look at the comments of Sanders supporters here, on social media, and elsewhere. There is a lot of disappointment. You will dismiss that from your comfy perch. But what do you have to offer in support of your position?
I'd be stunned
at your lack of reading comprehension if it weren't for how obvious is your attempt to charge me with arguments and points I did not make. You are arguing with what you want me to say but did not.. You have also once again avoided my question. That's OK with me. I didn't expect an answer. I expected every rationalization for tossing aside all of the progress for average people Bernie has made during his life but particularly in the past fifteen months. Bernie's campaign and his message is the reason so many new people are aware of the corruption in every part of the system. The inside game you scoff at so easily is the reason he couldn't be ignored by HRC and the DNC. I have little doubt he would have done better than ever before at getting out his message but would have been far less effective absent the shit show that was the Dem primaries. According to you that is all null and void. Bernie has hitched his star to the Clintons, DNC, and the oligarchs. Your proof is that he continues to do exactly what he told us he would do. Social media agrees that you are righteous in your anger at Bernie's betrayal so it must surely be so. To each his own I guess.
I don't give a fuck if I'm right or you're right. I suspect we both have some measure of a valid point and have been talking past each other more than anything.
I choose to stand with Bernie as he plays out his hand on the inside long game. You consider it worthless and traitorous. Fine, be my guest. At the same time I'll vote for Jill Stein and support whatever looks like it will grow the momentum of a progressive movement along the third party route. I think there will be a merging of efforts over the long haul but probably sooner than we think. I can't see how there can't be if we are to attain the mass needed to beat back the bastards with their boot on the neck and their hands in the pockets of most Americans. So, go your way and good luck. I sure as hell won't cry over the demise of either or both major parties.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
He is now part and parcel of every war, every crooked deal,
every fuck-up she makes. I'm not interested in a Sanders Institute, Sanders speeches, or pretty much Sanders anything anymore. If he can see the corruption and accept it, fine. He had his ride. He got all kinds of attention and money. He made promises he didn't keep and for some strange reason he refused to point out hillary's serious and personal scandals. He had his fun. And now when things get really down to the wire and tough, he doesn't even have the decency to wait for the convention like he kept promising to cave and grovel. People trusted him. If I was a sanders supporter and had spent money so that I could make it to the convention I'D BE FREAKING FURIOUS! There is nothing there for anyone who doesn't have their lips firmly attached to the Clinton creature's ass.
In the end I think it all came down to Sanders trying to save his day job.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Would advertising any
Would advertising any strategy Bernie may be planning to the corporate/billionaire enemies running this hostile corporate take-over really be a good idea? Can everyone think about that for a moment, think about who and what Bernie is, go by proven character and see what he may have in mind before casting him as some kind of a sell-out or wimp.
Hillary is running as a corporate CEO, not as the President of a democracy;
the Dem nomination and election is rigged;
corporate control is to be 'legalized' as being 'binding' on democracies around the world by private agreements drawn up by Bush and pushed by Obama and Hillary, unconstitutionally offshoring public domestic law to be designed as of, by and for corporations and billionaires only;
the (partially Bush-family-appointed) Supreme Court (which appointed Bush 2 as President) has previously misinterpreted the US Constitution against the obvious intentions of the Founders and the public interest to benefit corporate interests and billionaires,
including enabling self-interests long draining the public and environment for power and money enough to buy public policy to actually buy whole political parties and elections
and following the uninvestigated and smoothed-over death of a Supreme Court Judge, the replacement Supreme Court Judge will help decide the validity of this unconstitutional hostile corporate take-over of democracy and domestic law in any case brought against it on behalf of The People/the Constitution (with a number of suggestions of Constitutional amendments to portions merely misinterpreted becoming suddenly popular, so that amendments destroying protections existing but merely not being enforced also become possible);
the all-important Supreme Court deciding vote was to be supplied by a corporate-friendly Republican nominated by Dem President Obama, promoter of the corporate coup and of Hillary, promoter of the corporate coup and pre-selected Dem President by corporate/billionaire acclaim - and Dems were urged to support this direction-determining judicial selection.
This is not just any election - this looks like the last chance for any peaceful political solution and we must stand together, 99% against the 1%.
Resistance is fertile - spread it around.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Ellen, I keep reminding myself
that emotions are raw and uncertainty is pegged to the upper bound. I, too, keep asking for rational critical thinking but I don't think that's possible right now. I'm with you on preserving the best of what Bernie's campaign has bought for us all. We'll need everything and more to move forward with either HRC or Trump in the white House. I also don't think many of us can see the many positives and are flailing about grasping at anything they see that might help them not feel so let down. They'll eventually run out of energy to be so angry and calm down. Maybe by then there will be a return of rational thought.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
By all means, you two are the 'rational' ones.
You are thoroughly mistaken if you think he will have any credibility left if her sings her praises during that speech.
No damn way will he pull in all those who supported him and donated just to have him bail weeks before the convention even though he said over and over and over he was taking it to Philly. And no, people aren't going to come 'around'. What's that, you're "who else they gonna..." statement? He looks just like any other 'sell out' politician to a lot of young people who joined his campaign because they believed what he was telling them.
He can do what he feels he needs to do. So can everybody else. But he needs to quit asking for donations. Now that he's on Team Clinton he needs to live off their money now.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Thanks for your opinion Amanda.
Stay classy as always.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Ah, there's the arrogance
yes, you are rational and anyone who disagrees is not. Do you intend to vote for Hillary?
well that's super.
anyone taking any bets on what sanders' payoff is? secretary of slightly used noodles?
what a shitshow.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Bernie's committed to Hillary...
but that doesn't mean his 1900 delegates are.
Be nice to see a bit of pushback on the floor this week.
Somebody needs to make a stink.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
They should protest during
They should protest during her speech. Yelling "sham" during the speech and walking out would be a good start.
#NotMeUS
I don't think we should be so hung up on what Bernie does or doesn't do. I'm pretty sure Bernie is aware that whatever his words or actions, Hillary is not ok with us. If this is about the movement and the planet and our freedom then lets pick the one candidate for President who addresses our concerns, Jill Stein, and lets work with Bernie when he returns to the Senate. I'm sure Senator Sanders and President Stein will work really well together.
Beware the bullshit factories.
No way am I going to pile onto Bernie for this.
He is doing his best with the crap hand he's been dealt. I think he's trying to preserve some bit of power in the Senate, and that's a worthy goal. Never underestimate the good the Amendment King can do for oppressed people just by tweaking a law here or there. It's way better than nothing. And make no mistake: the Clinton machine wants him to take nothing. I can't even imagine her fury, that he dared to challenge her, that we dare to disapprove of her. There are others in the party who've indicated he will keep some power in the Senate if he backs off the Queen. So he has. Who the hell am I to judge? I'm just some nobody from nowhere who contributed $27. He's the one who's being forced by the DNC to eat shit on live TV every day and by-God like it if he ever wants his voice in the Senate to be heard again.
But i will never, and I mean NEVER, vote for Hillary Clinton. I've always been appalled by both Clintons, and I'm now at the same visceral, nearly hysterical place I was with George Bush the Lesser: when I hear Hillary's grating, hateful voice on TV I change the channel as quickly as I can. I belong in no party that would nominate her, or any other cheating, lying right winger. I belong in no party that would include such ravening wolves in sheep's clothing as Franken, Warren, Brown. After 44 years as a Democrat, I am now convinced that there is no left wing at all in the party itself. So I'm going Green. I'm about 24 years late, but I reckon I'm just a slow learner.
Twain Disciple
agree completely.TD. Also
agree completely.TD. Also been voting for 44 years, and this is the most extraordinary election of my lifetime
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