something worth considering despite TOP's Hillarists
FYI from https://louisproyect.org/2016/07/14/misusing-german-history-to-scare-up-...
In Harold Meyerson’s “Bernie, Hillary, and the Ghost of Ernst Thalmann”, the same historical analogy is used to get out the vote for Clinton but this time directed more at disaffected Sanderistas than Green Party activists who Meyerson likely views as beyond hope:
In the last years of the Weimar Republic, the real menace to Germany, Thälmann argued, wasn’t the Nazis but the Communists’ center-left, and more successful, rival for the backing of German workers: the Social Democrats. The SDs, he said, were actually “social fascists,” never mind that they were a deeply democratic party without so much as a tinge of fascism in their theory and practice. But as the Communists’ rival for the support of the German working class, the SDs became the chief target of the Communists’ campaigns.
Thälmannism, then, is the inability (be it duplicitous, willful, fanatical, or just plain stupid) to distinguish between, on the one hand, a rival political tendency that has made the compromises inherent to governance and, on the other hand, fascism. And dispelling that inability is precisely what Bernie Sanders will be doing between now and November.
I’m neither equating Donald Trump with Hitler nor saying he’s fascist in the classic sense. Trump has no organized private army of thugs to attack and intimidate his rivals, as both Hitler and Mussolini did. But Trump’s racist, xenophobic, and nationalist appeals; his division of the nation into valorous and victimized native-born whites and menacing non-white interlopers; his constant employment of some Big Lies and many Little ones; and his scant regard for civil liberties make him the closest thing to a fascist of any major party presidential nominee in our history.
Yet a minority of Sanders’s supporters fail to grasp the threat that a Trump presidency poses to the nation—to immigrants, to minorities, to workers, and even to the left and to themselves. I doubt more than a handful will actually vote for Trump, but Jill Stein and even Gary Johnson will win some of the Sanders diehards’ votes (though for voters, moving from Medicare-for-All Sanders to Medicare-for-None Johnson requires either extraordinary ideological footwork or simple brain death). In states where the race between Clinton and Trump is close, however, a Sanders diehard’s vote for Stein or Johnson, or a refusal to vote at all, is in effect a vote for Trump.
Comments
On Hillary's payroll?
At least Trump is an amateur criminal. Hillary is a pro.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
I'm not saying, but, but, but
"I’m neither equating Donald Trump with Hitler nor saying he’s fascist in the classic sense."
LOL
For a dumb man, Trump has played the Republican party like a very smart man. He's used his reality show experience to play the clown to his audience, won more votes then any other Republican (including Mittens), and of course, gotten the MSM to do all the work for him. Made a lot of money for his companies in the process. This ain't dumb. JEB! spent more than $100 million, Trump tossed him out of the running with very few words: "low energy." Didn't need to spend hundreds of millions on focus groups, polling, advisors telling him what to say or do. Also, easier on the ears than Shrillary yelling into microphones. ( Hasn't anyone told her you don't have to yell if you're using a microphone? It doesn't make you look stronger, IT OFFENDS OUT EARS!)
Just as Mittens campaign manager said "no worry" - we'll play Etch-a-Sketch for the general election. Trump knows he can't do what he's saying he wants to do, but it gets him the votes he wants. Clinton does the exact same thing, but doesn't have the authenticity to say it without her sycophants giving her the words! Trump, yes, is teflon, but also seems to have more common sense then Ruth Bader Ginsberg.
Trump makes deals, Clintons STEAL. Clintons have spent decades protecting their political viability, and we've seen how they behaved! Can you even imagine what they'd be like back in the White House with NO CONCERN for their political viability anymore. Terrifying.
Nope, Clinton is running on "you should be afraid, very afraid" - I'm not afraid of Trump. I AM afraid of the Clintons, their CGF, criminals, liars, CORRUPT to the Core!
Go the the LINK on the essay
Misusing German history to scare up votes for Hillary Clinton
Is the caption....
"Trump makes deals, Clintons STEAL"?
Oh. So. WRONG!
Each of Hair Drumpf's four bankruptcies used the law to steal the investors' money. He is as much a thief as the Clintons are. He only differs in his method.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Yeah, this idea Trump is some kind of great businessman is silly
No, I don't think he's Hitler or the end of the world. Nor necessarily worse than Clinton. I only know I can't know which will be worse, so how could I vote for either?
But whatever he may NOT be, he is no brilliant deal-maker. He's someone who started near the top of the economic ladder, and through his "brilliance" in business, has managed to stay within one or two rungs of where he started.
He's a narcissist, a liar, a panderer, and a thief. So is Hillary.
I'm not terrified of Trump winning only because he's also a buffoon, and much less competent than Hillary in executing nefarious schemes. Also because the Dems in Congress (and some Repubs) would actually fight Trump, perhaps the only Republican they'll have stood up to in my lifetime.
This pretty sums up a large part of my
feelings.
But then I go: God, look what is happening all around the globe? What if all the non-Mussolini/non-Hitler right wing populists begin to win all over Europe and Central and South America (or simply steel the government through parliamentary coops)?
I then I just go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.... I don't think I'll know how I'll vote until I'm in the booth, because I'm certainly voting on the down ticket folks. Today I can't imagine voting Clinton, and yet....
It seems to me that both sides of the debate: Stop voting for the lesser evil vs Stop Trump (and all others like him) have some merit.
Clinton is the most experienced candidate ever ...
at destroying nations (e.g. Libya) and undermining democracy (e.g. Honduras) and trading weapons for personal enrichment (e.g. Saudi Arabia) and supporting dictators (e.g. Egypt). With proven experience like that, how can she possibly be considered less dangerous than Trump?
I noticed quite some
I noticed quite some elections back that an insane number of even normally sensible countries were all suddenly winding up with conservative governments, almost as though arranged...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
He steals from people who chose to invest with him; she's
complicit in stealing from us without our permission. Add death and destruction to her report card, and a whole lot of us don't see any "lesser" between these two evils.
If you give us two unacceptable choices, a lot of us won't accept them. See how that works?
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Hillary robbed Libyans of their lives or their prospects in life
Happy fifth anniversary, Hillary — you've destroyed Libya
A strong case can be made that on foreign policy — an area where a president has immense powers to act alone, unhindered by Congress or the courts — Hillary is more dangerous than Trump by far.
Trump: the lesser of two evils
"Compromises inherent to governance"
This entire argument rests on the part I've put in bold: the assertion that the current Democratic neoliberal political establishment has simply made the normal, natural, to-be-expected "compromises inherent to governance".
I don't buy that characterization, and without it, the argument fails. In fact, I don't see the neolibs as having compromised much at all. They're serving their corporatist oligarchy masters quite well, and enriching themselves doing so.
(I guess we could say they are "compromised", but in a different sense. Their integrity is compromised. They are corrupt. By their compromised and corrupt actions, they have compromised the well-being of 99% of the American people, and possibly the continued existence of life on the planet.)
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Compromised
in the sense that their view is that what is good for them personally is by definition good for the rest of the citizens of the country. There are certainly many, if not most, areas where our interests intersect but it is really arrogant that they think and act like theirs are supreme while none of us know what's right for us. We lesser people need to get with their program, they know what is best. That's my gracious reading. The equally probable one is that they know they're fucking us and don't care what we think.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Nothing New
While the Clintons might say
they are hardly the first to boast about this:
- General Motors CEO Charles “Engine Charlie” Wilson after nomination to be Secretary of Defense by President Eisenhower in 1953
The only difference is Charlie Wilson hid behind his corporation, which certainly paid him very well.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Your signature tells us exactly
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi
"Going Godwin" about compromise to say I think Bernie's rallies were just as Hitleresque, if not more-so with rally goers knowing his stump speech by heart. Big crowds of zealots (any stripe) give me pause, I had to go and see it for myself in Cloverdale where I live.
Distressing the manner in which we were kettled. People turned off their brains and did exactly what they were told to do by the authorities, even when it meant risking health and safety. Felt like some kind of joint practice for the TSA and local LEOs, creepy as hell. And dangerous! Two medical emergencies on the tarmac soon after they told everyone to "crowd in" to "fit more people" after hours in line no shade 98F because optics I guess. The TV/Internet cameras had to show bucolic hills, not ugly old hangar reality. There was plenty of room to relax and spread out and be comfortable, but crowds can't be easily controlled when spread out and comfortable. hint
Even Senator Raul got short-shrift having to push through to get on stage he stepped on my foot. wtf? there was a clear path right there on the other side of the barriers. We're doomed when Security actually isn't. I'm supposed to be fearing China or Iran? How 'bout the American idiots in charge? I think it's dumb luck we're still here.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi
Bet this guy loved
Neville chamberlain.
Just another
"HRC doesn't suck as bad as Trump!" dressed up in historical reference and well written. Where has the idea gone that a candidate has to earn our vote by demonstrating good character, good sense, and good judgment backed by policy positions that are attractive to most of us? "But he is a terrible choice too!" just simply doesn't cut it. There are valid concerns expressed here but it is once again designed to evoke a fear based emotional response rather than a reasoned analysis of what each candidate brings to the table for us. In other words, drivel. Excuse me, not harsh enough, dishonest drivel.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Good points vt
Two obvious games being played here. Global monopoly with trump the banker and War! with Clinton dealing.
Trump fear-mongering goes Godwin
Surprised it didn't happen earlier actually.
That's the best part.
It was too perfect not to apply to an established meme...
Ya Vol!
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
In Germany they had communism and fascism
In America we have fascism or fascism. Hillary or Trump. Bad Fascism or Batshit Fascism.
Which do you think will get drummed out in four years and which do you think will be around for two terms?
If my vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump.
Then that's the way it is. I guess more people should have voted for Bernie than Hillary.
I agree. A vote for Jill Stein
is a vote for Jill Stein. And in my opinion (for what its worth), I believe that more people actually did vote for Bernie than Hillary.
Well
this copy and paste essay convinced me. We're just bad people. And I'm in Ohio so I'm a really bad person because my vote is waaay more "important". Check please.
Lessers
I'm in Ohio, too. (Welcome to Cleveland, Republicans... Oh, and btw, FUCK YOUR PLATFORM!)
I'm no longer allowing myself to be guilted, cajoled, or bamboozled into voting for the lesser of two evils (or eviler of two lessers). Clinton has not earned my vote. Period.
A vote for Dr. Stein is a vote for Dr. Stein. Period.
"There’s nothing revolutionary about a movement that retreats into an endorsement of the lesser of two evils." Scott McLarty @ CounterPunch
Don't feel bad, I'm in Florida so I will get "Double Nadered" by
the Clintonites when she loses...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
More people did vote for
More people did vote for Bernie than Hillary, and Bernie actually won the nomination.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6J1ecILnk3UUy1KZ2FUT29iQ1E/view?pref=2...
https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/
Edited to add quote.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I feel the same, maybe even worse
If Trump wins because I vote Jill, the only people to blame are the DNC and DWS who unfairly forced Hillary down our throats. The Dems should be happy as hell that I'm planning to vote for Jill. At least that way it won't have a double effect of counting as a plus vote for Trump. Depending on much further Hillary pisses me off over the next few months, I might change my mind and do everything possible to make sure she doesn't become president.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
That thought crossed my mind, too.
Aye
If Trump manages to win, he will owe DWS a cabinet position. She released us from any obligation that we might normally feel after participating in the primaries. This has helped us see the error of our ways, helped us see our own role in bringing us to this point of having only bad options.
So, this is what it comes down to now? Vote for Hillary because Hitler? Then why do the Clintons hang out with Hitler? And why the fuck did they convince Hitler to run for office? Seriously, why would anyone do that? Even if you could convince me to do this "lesser evilism" thing just one more time (you can't), it's not exactly obvious which candidate represents the "lesser" wing of evil. I don't see how anyone can possibly claim to know which one would be worse. At least Trump would have opposition. Clinton not only gets a pass for ANYTHING from her supporters, they change their way of thinking to accommodate whatever she does. To paraphrase Lord Varys, they would see this country burn if their idol could be queen of the ashes. I can hear the victory speech now, "We defeated racism! We defeated bigotry! Because Trump is racism and bigotry. And Trump lost. So that means those things are gone now." Meanwhile, that wave of anger and hatred that Trump so easily tapped into continues to grow, continues to get stronger. I think that's real. I think that could lead to something worse. And I think that's something that only actual leftists know how to fight.
The Kissinger wing of the Democratic Party can go back to playing their little game of pretend politics, but we never agreed to do that forever, and now we have work to do. And our work has nothing to do with this ridiculous battle of the reality TV stars.
As far as the presidential race, Dr. Stein is looking to be an acceptable alternative if Bernie isn't available. I'm liking her more and more. And it would be cool to finally have a female president.
Gotta drum-up fear of the third party
They love to roll out their sophistry, "Dems who voted Nader gave us Dubya." Which ignores that many more Democrats voted for Bush than did for Nader. Somehow these are absolved of any responsibility.
Also Gore himself is not blameless. If he hadn't taken West Virginia for granted and bothered to campaign there at all he would have gotten those electoral votes and made Florida moot.
Or even New Hampshire
Its measly 4 electoral votes would have been just enough.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
You have done some homework
on Germany, now You might want to start doing some homework on what the Clintons (Hillary and or Bill) have already done to workers, minorities, immigrants and the left in this country and around the world. Then tell us honestly how you think they will be better this time. With the shit they have pulled just in this primary anyone can see at best it will just be more of the same but I'm guessing it will be a lot worse.
Exactly. Clinton welfare reform
is still harming workers, minorities and immigrants 20 years later. Clinton will be a disaster to working people.
Once again...
Lesser of two evils voting gave us Hitler. People voted for von Hindenburg to avoid electing Hitler, and von Hindenburg appointed Hitler.
"the Democratic Party is not 'left'." -- Sabrina Salvati
cut and paste??
this isn't DK. at least provide a paragraph or two with your own thoughts. we'll even cut you some slack on spelling and grammar.
yeah, i know, i don't capitalize. too lazy to shift when i want to type quickly.
Well that was rude
and sounded just like something I would read on daily kos. If you have a problem with the messenger's motive or content, state it.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Frankly, so does this entire post
though that should be so obvious, there's no need to be flat-out rude to the author. I appreciate their bravery and their resolve in the face of the hopeless task they take on outside of the little orange fishbowl, where everybody laps this shit up like it's ambrosia, for cryin' out loud. The problem is, the argument they copy over and write around is worthless, in that it's been done to death already and it's not swaying anybody anymore and it's not going to sway anybody anymore--at least those who have been paying attention.
If that motif was still gonna cut it, perhaps it shouldn't have been used so much and so unnecessarily in the past. Something about a wolf....
Some in the thread did some research on the essayist.
They say they found support at top for the fact that she is a Hillary supporter. They suspect she is the "good cop" sent here to represent and sell unification. Good luck with that.
IF we are open to Hillary supporters because we are not an echo chamber, then we should be open to their sales pitch for unification as long as they aren't obnoxious about it. I just thought the criticism should be on the content or her possible motives, not grammar and spelling. There are no rules against a cut and paste as long as it doesn't violate copywrite law, but we do have rules about being civil.
Personally, I wouldn't publish anything so long and dry if I was selling something. I think the pitch gets like 30 seconds to 1 minute to hook the mark or the door closes.
Note: I am speaking only for me. I am not speaking as a moderator, and my remarks do not speak for c99. Johnny did share his thoughts somewhere up above or down below.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
The perspective from 1852
All of us Whigs should get together, and if we're united we can... okay, what were we going to do? Or, we can start the Republican Party and maybe by 1860 we'll get an office or two and maybe do something about that slavery problem.
"the Democratic Party is not 'left'." -- Sabrina Salvati
Yep, we call that the "Elevator Pitch".
You try to come up with a pitch that you can give in the length of an elevator ride to put out your idea or product.
Try coming up with one of those for ending the war on drugs that will work on "The Normals".
They usually vapor lock by the time you finish, "I support ending the war on drugs...." so many are so conditioned.
Although it is getting a lot better, the last Rotary group I did a talk for was actually quite accepting and that bunch tends to lean more towards conservative, particularly on this issue, as they tend to be older and therefore exposed to the propaganda for far longer.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
well that ain't true!
No, it's a vote for neither Hillary or Trumpolini. This argument assumes that I would vote for the Democratic candidate, it's assumed to be so. But it's a mistake made by whoever wrote that piece. Maybe Harold Meyerson is a reliable Dem vote so if he didn't vote for Hills then it would be a lost vote....but not a vote for Trump. Only 1/2 a vote because, in this case, Trump does not get the vote either.
Nevermind
“We may not be able to change the system, but we can make the system irrelevant in our lives and in the lives of those around us.”—John Beckett
A vote for Emily Litella! :-D
A vote for Jill Stein
is a vote for Jill Stein and not for Trump. In the not-so-distant past my relatives were denied the right to vote, and when I vote, I vote who I believe is the best candidate. The Democrats finally had someone worth giving a precious, and historically hard fought, vote too in Bernie Sanders. When they cheated, suppressed the vote and pushed him aside for their preferred candidate, they lost my vote. I will now vote my conscious and vote for Jill Stein, the best candidate running. Who the Republicans run is irrelevant to me. I will vote for who I think is the best candidate. Fear is a tool of oppression, and that is all the "lesser of two-evils" argument is.
The Clintons have tentacles into all major spheres inside the
Beltway and global reach as well, through the family foundation (see, e.g., Clinton Global Initiative). They have power, IOUs, ruthless strongarming, and deep ties not only to Wall St. but to Big Pharma, oil & gas (she still hasn't repudiated fracking), and arms manufacturers. Trump's a skilled showman but an outsider politically. He doesn't have the kind of juice on which the rigged system runs.
Hillary Clinton's at least as alarming to me as Trump, given her record. If refusing to vote for her results in President Trump, so be it--and a pox on the heads of the DNC and everyone else who was warned. Warned that people like me, reliable D voters for more than 4 decades, couldn't in conscience vote for her.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
THIS, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN
Annielli, this is not directed at you but at the party who is too goddamn lazy to do the right things and instead went the route of obvious corruption--we tried and tried and tried and tried and tried to tell you about this Clinton person. We are DONE with her and we are DONE with the fucking mindset that props her up. NO MORE. You anoint this crooked horror show at the DNC convention and she loses--and she will--and you built that and you OWN it. Do you understand me?
Second that cause fck this shit.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Third that cuz fck this shit!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Forthwith!
Forthwith!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Pile On!!!!
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
They rigged the process every legal and illegal way they could
to ensure they got her, so yeah, they own her, and they can go down with that sinking ship. The Sanders lifeboat is still on deck, but they're ignoring it, as they have from the start, because it doesn't follow their navigational plans and wouldn't take them where they want to go.
Absolutely: They own it, and they can ride it to perdition.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
REMEMBER!
NOT VOTING FOR TRUMP IS VOTING FOR HILLARY!
see what i did there?
i'm not even convinced that trump is the racist/misogynist shitbag that clinton's supporters are making him out to be. i seem to remember bernie sanders being a racist misogynist shitbag too; a drum beat that took hold in the media and still keeps some of the bobbleheads dancing. this is the transparent identity politics of the clinton campaign, "i'm with HER*" (*and if you're not you hate women, minorities, brown horses, children kittens jesus and freeedomz)
granted, trump is pandering to this set, but guess who else has done the same? both of the clintons. oh, and who has actually been involved in enacting racist national and international policies, spending brown lives to make the corporate people smile? both of the clintons. know who hasn't? trump.
i'm withholding any sort of decision on clinton until i see the debates. i want to see her distinguish herself policy wise and to the LEFT of trump. there's no way i'd vote for a republican, but given clinton's playdoh policy positions at the moment, i'll be voting green. and no, i'll skip the FEAR! a la carte. thanks.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Oh, he is!
"i'm not even convinced that trump is the racist/misogynist shitbag that clinton's supporters are making him out to be." Haven't you been listening to him? Doesn't mean HRC is the lesser evil or that I would even consider voting for her.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Have we been invaded by Hillary's minions?
This is this person's second post here where it posts something and then doesn't offer any commentary or post any comments.
If that's what is happening, I find it funny and sad.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
You're not surprised are you snoopydawg?
You knew it was only a matter of time before they got bored over at TOP while deluding themselves that Hillary is the bestest evah!!
I really expect them to start invading in droves here and TPW. It's going to get worse when the paid shills leave TOP and those left start eating their own. I hope they don't find a warm welcoming here or over at TPW. They have their site, hopefully, they'll stay there, but I wouldn't count on it!
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
If/when that happens...
policy will be set, it wont be tolerated.
Thanks JtC!
You might as well start getting ready. You will probably see a direct relationship between rising troll numbers here with falling poll numbers for Hillary.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
That's awesome
An equivalent essay posted over at this persons favorite place would be banned in minutes.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
It IS boring over at TOP! What fun is an echo chamber?
I would say that about us here if we were all united behind Bernie or any one politician. Fortunately, we are a livelier crew than that.
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I should have bookmarked
the posts where markos swore, oh-so-hand-over-heart, that he'd do everything in his power to keep DK from becoming an echo chamber.
So plaintive, so sincere. So completely full of shit...
Maybe he's sincere and he just doesn't have much power
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Hmm!
Well, there's a thought, huh?
(puts hand over mouth, laughs conspiratorially)
i love me some shills
because i've got a lot of pent-up rage. i hope that, when the shills from the then-defunct kkos show up here, i won't be booted for trolling them mightily.
or just calling them shill pieces of shit, outright.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
ip lulz tacos.
[don't look at me]
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
annieli is definitely a Hillbot troll
Just ventured over to TOP to peruse their history. Go back before the March 15 edict and you'll find lots of posts from this one looking forward to the end of the Bernie supporters.
And yet, here they are. Can't seem to let us go. Have to come hunt us down to continue their crap. Go back where you came from annieli!!
And I need to go wash my hands after being over there.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
I did go over to LOF
And look at its comment history to see, but it looks like I didn't go far enough back to see those comments.
Then I'm taking away the funny in my comment and sticking with sad.
What's the point of doing this? I still lurk at LOF (little orange footballs) and read the nauseating, echo chambers of the pro Hillary diaries, but don't comment in them. It seems that they want to stay willfully blind to the damage that the Clintons will do to this country and the world, even though we and Bernie tried to warn them.
I wonder how many months they will say that Hillary is playing fucking chess while she works with the republicans and some democrats to privatize social security, as Bill almost accomplished before his screwing around with Monica Lewinsky got in the way?
And Hillary is going to prove us right that she's a warmonger when she continues PNAC's wars and possibly starts a war with Russia (which Obama has already set in motion), China and possibly Iran.
Robert Kagan who helped write PNAC is advising her now on foreign policy.
Gee, I wonder what he's advising her to do? Or Paulson after he endorsed her instead of the Donald because he wouldn't promise to privatize SS.
Idiots.
JtC says this won't be tolerated so I'm good with that.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
"Little Orange Footballs"... love that!
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
LOL! Read this article
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/287845-democrats-freaked-out-about-pol...
Yeah, I'm sure it's the Institutions, Hillary not you personally when you spent 4 years pushing for the TPP and then when you saw how people feel about it you say that you aren't in favor of it 'as it's written now'. How many words need to be changed for you to be in favor of it again?
Good luck with that. Imagine if you had endorsed Bernie instead and got all of his supporters voting to get him a senate majority, instead of backing the most corrupt candidate that has ever run for president.
You all knew of the baggage that she was carrying around and how much most people in this country despise the Clintons.
But don't worry too much if you lose in the next election. There's always those lobbying companies that will hire you.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
I think I'm going to troll diaries all over the Internet with,
"If you're SO scared of Trump, tell the supers to vote for Bernie!"
Comey's "careless and reckless" comments hurt her. She doesn't look so presidential after all. Time to bring in the pinch (pitch?) hitter.
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Is it just me, but shouldn't the democratic candidate
be beating Trump 70/30 or 60/40?
What is this crap they knew it was going to be a close race? I call bull on that.
And were the senators' heads in the sand these past six months or less when Bernie way outpolled Hillary to beat Trump?
It's not you,
It's her
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
(No subject)
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
They're setting it up for stealing
So do I. There's no way it should be close. At all. This is the "reality" they're going to try and push, so when their software flips the votes away from the Green Party and lands in Hillary's column, we won't notice or say anything.
I gotta tell them, after all that's happened in the last year or so, they're not going to get away with stealing another one. You can take that to the bank...
Hillary has been taking it
Hillary has been taking it
forto the banksters - that's part of the problem with her...Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Concerning her views on the TPP
Snoopydawg wisely asked:
To which I might add: and which words, and to what would you change them?
Now interviewing signature candidates. Apply within.
you say:
I think you should link to these "lots of posts." Because I'm not finding them.
Also, it's interesting that you direct her to "go back where you came from," since it seems she's been posting to this site as long as you have.
The comments she's posted to this site don't sound like those of "a Hillbot troll."
It's unfortunate
but some people find that mere association is enough to judge. Whether that's fair or not, the core argument the poster makes is "Hillary! Because Trump is Hitler!" and if you're already not buying that, and you know the poster primarily hangs their hat at TOP, you probably think the poster is trolling. Particularly since they don't stick around and engage.
You know how DK feels about "hit and run diarists", they think it's rude and bad form. While it's not a requirement here, I have seen exactly two posts from annielli where he/she couldn't be bothered to engage here with anybody after putting up the post. You'll have to forgive me that I don't feel compelled to be so gallant in their defense, though it was nice of you to do so (and I mean that, sincerely)....
The argument about Thaelmann is bogus
Harold Meyerson is a Hillarybot--maybe not overtly, but definitely covertly. Yeah, I'm going full out Godwin here--or pre-Godwin: Meyerson is reported to have said that the real enemy of the Weimar Republic was not Fascism but socialism/communism. This is erroneous. Before Hindenburg appoint Hitler, there was plenty of fighting in the streets--but the SD (Social Democrats were not getting bloodied). Yes they were a political party--amongst 40 others. A digression: "social fascism" in a democratically professing party is pure, unadulterated bullshit. That shows you a bit about Meyerson's mind-set. The battle in the streets of Berlin and other cities of the Weimar Republic was between the Commies and Hitler's brownshirts--not against the SDs. How did Hitler gain power: the PTB in Deutschland recognized who has the greater military threat to the shaky status quo--it wasn't the SDs and it wasn't the Commies. Ernst Roehm's Sturmabteilung took care of the Reds--by killing them and dispelling survivors out of the political scene.
So our diarist is choosing a poor example upon which to base this essay.
Trump is not Hitler, but he makes a good play of modeling himself after Mussolini. No Trump is not Hitler.
Though she doesn't have a mustache, as far as we know, Medusa is a fascist--I shall repeat that for emphasis: MEDUSA IS A FASCIST. No she doesn't have brown shirts; she has Laughing-out-Loud Lynch and Tap-dance Comey to pervert the laws of this country. Comey admitted this much under oath to the House Governmental Oversight Committee, i.e., there is a separate set of laws for Hillary Clinton than is for the rest of the non-billionaire class. Hillary is a creature of Wall Street and the Corporations. Does anybody on c99 have any doubts this is so? She and the Banksters will walk down the yellow brick road arm in arm, looting and plundering as they go.
Meyerson apparently believes that not voting for Hillary = voting for Trump. This assertion needs to take into consideration the following:
1. Hillary might be in prison (yay!)
2. Trump may not be the nominee ( plus-minus on that one)
3. Hillary is not the lesser of two evils--she is the worse of two evils (a comment fit for separate essays)
4. The schism in the Democratic party is irrevocable. I do not know the percentage of defections, many of which will be apparent on DumpDemDay. The base of the Demonic party will remain corporatist, while we, few struggling Lefties are figuring out how to fight the evil corrupting this Nation's body politic. The answer may be Green (Jill Stein) or a new Progressive Party.
Hillary for Prison
Still Sanders
Hillary herself is a fascist. On that and other
accounts this essay is less than convincing.
Why bother with this?
The clintons and their sycophants have made it *very* clear, they don't want or care about our votes (or us).
Nothing will convince me to vote for them now.
"Scary trump" is really the best argument that anyone can make for her? Good god, that is pathetic. If shrillary loses to Donald trump, they have no one to blame but themselves.
They need our votes
Poll numbers are now out showing Hillary in trouble in multiple battleground states and in a few more reliably blue states. They just realized that they need our votes. Problem is, they do not know how to convince us to vote for her. They tried #Winning, treating us like children, treating us like traitors, and now they are going Godwin. None of it seems to be working. Oh well, Not my circus, not my monkeys.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
Boo Hoo HOO
Here's a thought: if they can't come up with something convincing, maybe it's just that their candidate is a craven, lying, cheating POS!??
Been there, done that. They got nothin'. It's not going to work. The smartest thing Clinton can do at this point is step down, so she doesn't embarrass herself or the country when the assholes on the Right impeach her for all that she's done. Our country and our people don't have time for this do-nothing garbage.
If they can't produce the
If they can't produce the convincing media-induced fake of a close race to make a cheat appear like a possible win, then they do need enough actual voters that the 'win' seems feasible. After all, big funders expect to get the world out of a Hillary Presidency.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Lol, monkeys chained to
Lol, monkeys chained to corruption, fly, and be free!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Invading and shattering other, weaker countries
is what's fascist.
Proclaiming "full spectrum dominance," spending more on military and "contractors" than the next 10 countries combined, is fascist.
Spying on all the citizens all the time in every medium using every technology under secret rules blessed by secret courts? Fascist.
Governance hand-in-glove with bankers and industry is fascist.
Occupation and annexation of another people's land is fascist.
Fascists already rule us — the question is how best to disrupt their plans and mobilize the 99% of We the People against them.
Fascists already rule us — if Trump is such a fascist, why does the idea of us voting for him piss so many of them off?
Your statement about invading and shatteringly countries
not only by the United States, but also by the countries that make up NATO is the reason for the attack today in France, imo.
During the last two attacks, the terrorists said that they were in response to France bombing their countries and killing so many innocent civilians.
That is called blowback.
Would these attacks have happened if there wasn't a war on terror? Possibly.
But I think if NATO stayed out of the countries in the Middle East and the United States hadn't invaded so many or overthrew almost 50 elected governments and installed brutal dictators and then did nothing when they started committing human rights violations, there wouldn't be people who wanted revenge.
It was absolutely horrible what happened in France because again it's the innocents that are being killed.
Look at how many world leaders spoke out against it today.
But where were those leader's anger when the people in Iraq were blown up by attacks by ISIL or any other terrorist organization?
Don't those peoples lives count as much as the people who were killed or injured in France today? I believe that they do.
On various websites I have read tonight, people are either asking why this happened or they say that our military needs to bomb those countries where the terrorists live.
How can't people understand why these attacks keep happening?
The United States has been invading and overthrowing governments since the Monroe doctrine was signed if not before.
Smedley Butler told us how to keep the United States safe.
Pull the troops out of the countries they are in and use our navy to patrol our seas only 200 miles.
The Only reason why our government is fighting in so many countries now and during Smedley's time as muscle for hire for j is so that the corporations can steal other country's resources and for corporations to get rich.
Listen to any president's speech about why they say they need to put troops in harm's way. They always talk about protecting US interests, not to protect this country.
(sorry for the rant)
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Don't apologize for honesty
I can't believe the goddamn nerve of those people, sending their diarists over here to shill for that woman. If this were Daily Kos, and the post substituted the words "Hillary" for "Trump" and then "Sanders" for "Hillary", the poster would be verbally raped and then banned summarily. At least here, we put up with it.
That crooked vulture. That Queen of corruption and lies. Hillary Clinton can go fuck herself and so can her pathetic little water carriers. I will NEVER vote for her.
for some
reason i see this comment being particularly touted; "look at how they called me teh shillzer, all becuz i carry water for teh hillzer.."
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Because it's no fun unless they're mocking someone else
so why not throw 'em some bleeding red meat, I always say.
The more over-the-TOP, the better. Gives 'em a hobby...
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