Just some recent thoughts.

I don't fear a Trump presidency. I'm told I should, because he is the reincarnation of every evil humankind has ever birthed upon the land, and to let him become president would bring about an end of world scenario worse than anything we could ever imagine.
Or, from those who aren't Clinton supporters: he's a racist that would set the US back several decades.

No matter who you ask, the conclusion is that Trump will be bad for the US, and/or the world at large. So why don't I fear him becoming president, especially when he talks about banning all muslims, shutting down all mosques, or building a border wall against Mexico? It's because those are his starting negotiation points.

Trump has been, and always will be, a businessman. And what is the US government now but a type of business? So Trump is doing what he says all businessmen should do during negotiations: asking for way more than what one actually wants to achieve. Trump may not be the smartest guy in the country, but he certainly isn't stupid, and presumably knows that he won't be able to ban muslims, shut down mosques, or build a wall as big as he's claiming.

Realistically, what he could possibly achieve is travel bans to and from countries with large amounts of active terrorism, monitoring mosques that actively encourage members to engage in terrorism, and maybe a 10ft wall on part of the border. Personally, I'm mostly alright with these things. Banning travel to and from areas with high levels of active terrorism sounds sensible to me, though I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on it, I think we should be monitoring all groups that are preaching terrorism in our borders, be they a church, a mosque, a temple, or other, and the wall? While it would be a waste of time that wouldn't really accomplish anything, at least it'd create some jobs for a while and some people could get paid, so at least the money would eventually be used for something useful.

"But what about the racism?" you may ask. "Are you not worried about bigots around the nation feeling emboldened?"
Quite simply, I'm not. Horrible people are going to be horrible people, regardless of the president. I do wonder how bad racism was before Obama was elected. I'm from a rather white part of the nation, and didn't really see much racism at all growing up (saw a lot of homophobia though), and didn't pay much attention to national events much until after Obama was elected in 2008. My point is, if racism got worse after electing Obama (or after electing any non-racist president really), I don't see the argument that electing a racist president will make racism worse to be a valid one. If I'm wrong on that, however, I'd like to be informed.

As for the rest of the horrible things Trump is saying... well, it seems like it's more of an act than anything to me, designed to capitalize on people's frustration of a "PC culture," perceived or not. We Sanders supporters should be able to understand those people, as we've experienced everything we or Sanders has said being twisted as some sort of attack on women, minorities, Israel, etc. There are a lot of people who feel they can't say what's on their minds without being attacked relentlessly for it, especially with the rise of regressive/aliberal "left wing" groups, like SJW's (especially those who deliberately go out of their way to be offended by others), or woman-supremacy faux-feminists, or similar groups.

So I'm not afraid of a Trump presidency. If I'm right, Trump could potentially be to Hillary's left, and if comments from his former opponents are any indicator, that could very well be the case. If I'm wrong... well, I guess it doesn't really matter, as I don't expect to be voting for him anyway.

So, anybody have similar thoughts? Opposing ones? I'd like to hear some thoughtful discussion on this.

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Lookout's picture

I guess you've noticed the MSM has been going after T-rump and coddling the $hill? The corporate oligarchy really really wants the TPP to increase their global domination and control. Hellery will deliver or at least accept a lame duck passage. T-rump has said "no". The PTB understand they have a limited window to get this through. They're siding with Hillarity.

Here's Cenk talking about corporate republicans supporting $hill. 6.5 min
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypQbnfzjPdY]

I'm at least a scared of Hellery as I am T-rump, may be more. I'm voting Green.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Exactly! If Bernie doesn't pull a magical rabbit out of his hat in time, why vote for either evil when if even just the Indies (being the largest group) voted Green (and were allowed to vote and had their votes accurately counted) both evils could be avoided?

Of course, we've seen the astounding level of blatant electoral and other cheating committed by the billionaire/corporate funders/lackeys of their candidates, the illegal results of which are supposedly 'acceptable' once a done deal, much like police murders of PoC. And most unlike the home/car seizures (through unproven assumptions of drug-related gains) of the innocent parents of kids caught in possession of and thought to be selling small amounts of drugs...

One law to rule the 99 & 1/2%, and in the darkness bind them - always for the increased profit and power of the greediest of the very few.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Because of general disgust for both establishment parties, Trump and Clinton will be trailing Johnson and Stein in the polls. Hillary's approval already seems to be headed south of 40% and Trump is in the 30s. It won't take much, just concerned people coordinating on the internet.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Pluto's Republic's picture

They will vote from fear and remain victimized. It takes a lot of guts and sacrifice and courage to deal a fatal blow to the Party. Even if they have the power to do so, they won't.

I fear that the stablishment's Trump-fear manipulation of the people will work for them. I commented on this last night:

Trump might do something dangerous and illegal …like Hillary has already done, and will no doubt continue to do.

As if Presidents had power and congress isn't permanently dysfunctional.

I'd like a description of ONE really terrible thing Trump might do and how Congress would instantly pass legislation allowing it — because both Parties are sooo anxious to approve whatever Trump wants to do. I'd also like to hear ONE description of a Trump process whereby the United States immediatley becomes a fascist state.

What does fascist even mean? A merger of corporations and government? That horse has already left the barn.

Anyway, I'm all ears. I want to get scared, too.

Trump is the Hillexit vote.

Perhaps the Millennials will get behind beating the Democratic Party at their own game.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
lunachickie's picture

People have had enough of this shit. More and more people.

Trump is the Hillexit vote.

I'm fixin' to cast it, too, much to my own dismay. I remain convinced that, although Green is the obvious way to go for Progressives, they'll never be counted.

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Trump is the Hillexit vote.

YES. YES. YES. Greens aren't organized enough, haven't been able to create a unified party and they've been trying for years. Think it's more powerful to defeat Clintons by voting Trump.

Also agree with what the essayist says about Trump too.

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

but if it looks like the Green party doesn't have what it takes when we need it to, I may be pulling that lever with you. I'd rather we face a couple years minimum of dysfunction with the slight chance of one of the good things Trump supports seeping through, than to give any of the evil associated with Clinton a green light and a blank check.

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Will Trump votes actually be accurately counted by the corporate overlords so eager to coronate Hillary, or is he the 'Greater Evil' scare tactic running for notoriety (note his billions in free media air-time, repeating his ever more scary nonsense as required by Hillary's distrust and other poll numbers, all freely provided by Hillary-supporting media giants) used only to make Hillary's Presidential 'win' look more plausible? While attempts are made to make feasible 3rd-party runs darned near impossible in the two-party trade-off system Americans are somehow stuck with?

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Pluto's Republic's picture

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
elenacarlena's picture

racism, why would Trump raise it? But I think in some people, although they may not talk about it, maybe Obama did lower it. He didn't make an issue out of it, but just by being a capable leader, some people may have been surprised by that and may be more accepting now. They are, of course, much quieter than those outraged by his audacity.

As for Trump, I would hypothesize that we are more influence-able to let out our worse nature than our better? Or religion would have made us all into good people by now.

At any rate, he still worries me. But so does she. I am looking seriously at third party.

Now let's have a little chat about SJW. I had to go look it up, and per Wiki, "'Social justice warrior' (commonly abbreviated SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual promoting socially progressive views."

Srsly? You're going to use a pejorative term for progressives on a progressive blog?

I don't think you meant it that way, but it looks like a right-wing insult. You might want to rethink its use.

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

People who are able to be called SJW's are not the kind of people we want the left to become. Rather than preaching tolerance and acceptance, SJW's demand special attention be given to certain aspects of groups that they care about themselves at the expense of other aspects, to the point that they attack each other constantly over which group is the most oppressed, and which cause is the most worthy one to fight for. Hillary's group of supporters is actually comprised of a lot of these people. That's where the "I'm with her," and "It's her turn" stuff comes from. The only other term I know of for these groups of people would be called "regressives," which honestly isn't much better.

In a way, they're like the Democratic party: more interested in feeling good about themselves than they are in helping those in need.

And don't let the idea that it might have originated from the right-wing make you automatically dislike it. We can't adopt there mentality of "it's not from our side, so it's automatically bad."

And not to be offensive about religion, but if people followed the laws of any god (at least western, not that well versed on eastern religion) in their fullest, I think the world would be way worse than it is now. Too much death penalty in those laws for my taste.

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elenacarlena's picture

up) are much like Bernie supporters, wanting equal justice for all, including blacks, women, disabled, and better pay for low-wage workers, etc. Under that definition, I would consider myself a social justice warrior.

Undoubtedly in every group, there are those who take offense too easily, but surely people are as likely to take offense over something stupid as over social justice issues.

Also undoubtedly, there are people who falsely claim the social justice label, such as women who call blacks super predators and then say, "Hey, I apologized for that, so it's all good now," while saying, "A woman President will mean progress for all women!" while working to keep wages low, cut Social Security and the rest of the social safety net, and bomb foreign women. That's not a social justice warrior, that's a hypocrite.

I dislike it not because it is right wing, but because the point of the right-wing pejorative is to delegitimize legitimate grievances. Most SJW's would not act the way you describe. We're too busy worrying about people being shot, climate change killing all the species, women forced to carry rapists' babies and dying unnecessarily in childbirth, and people committing suicide out of hopelessness, among other big picture issues.

Would you agree that all religious texts contain both good and bad parts? Many religious scholars have said so. So why do we mostly discount the good parts and follow the bad parts? Why not the other way around?

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thanatokephaloides's picture

People who are able to be called SJW's are not the kind of people we want the left to become. Rather than preaching tolerance and acceptance, SJW's demand special attention be given to certain aspects of groups that they care about themselves at the expense of other aspects, to the point that they attack each other constantly over which group is the most oppressed, and which cause is the most worthy one to fight for. Hillary's group of supporters is actually comprised of a lot of these people. That's where the "I'm with her," and "It's her turn" stuff comes from. The only other term I know of for these groups of people would be called "regressives," which honestly isn't much better.

Because (as elenacarlena correctly points out) there are progressives who believe that being a warrior for social justice is a good thing (and it is), the more recently preferred term for the dicks described in the blockquoted passage is "Injustice Collectors".

From the linked article (and you really SHOULD click on it and read it!):

3. Injustice collectors truly believe they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others seem incapable of holding themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

7. Injustice collectors have an external orientation; the problem always exists in the world, outside of themselves, and in their view, the world would be an acceptable place if their rules and standards were followed at all times.

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

These are just a select few of the characteristics, all of which the dicks we're talking about demonstrate. Lisa E. Scott (the linked article's author) points out that injustice collectors are pathological narcissists who wreak serious harm on everything and everyone they touch.

It reminded me of so many of the jerks over at TOP -- and the article was a MAJOR help in my healing process from separation from there. (Maybe even a COLONEL help!)

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

I would like to point out that Hillary felt that a mayor conspiring to hide evidence of police murder of PoC was fit to retain his position of public trust - and various previous Clinton policies hit PoC especially hard. Entirely by non-racist coincidence, where Black bodies and ruined lives just happen to be hidden in the shadows? Neither Hillary nor Trump should be anywhere near public policy decision-making.

In a democracy, a President serves the public interest, not just that of a few self-interests, and under a real democracy, there will be an ideal of equal rights, treatment and opportunity for all. With no group more or less equal than others, with more or less expendable lives, health and futures.

Edit: lol, missed an 'l' in health - probably not much heath to be expendable or not in most cities...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

elenacarlena's picture

IF the Dems are really worried about a Trump presidency, they need to nominate Bernie! Hillary is "careless and reckless" and Repubs want more investigations. She cannot win now.

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Shahryar's picture

Begone! Before somebody drops a house on you, too!

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mimi's picture

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

for thoughtful discussion. If I wanted condescending attitudes, I'd have gone to GOS. I'd appreciate if the site were to be one where thoughtful discussion and rational arguments could take place, over base, emotional reactions.

So my invitation for discussion still stands, but if you don't care for one, there's no need o respond.

And if this was just snark, a notification that it was would be nice.

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mimi's picture

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

That's one of the ones I haven't figured out so far.

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mimi's picture

opening the comment for northing.

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

And there was no need to redact your snark. Sorry if I came off as cross or irritated.

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Me sharing my recent thoughts, as the title says, and an invitation to discussion on said thoughts. What about yours? Is your response a snarky joke?

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Former CIA director, retired four-star General Michael Hayden, "warned that the US military would refuse to obey Donald Trump's orders if he became President and followed up on some of his campaign rhetoric."

National Review’s David French, an Iraq veteran, : “[W]ords cannot express the contempt I felt for Trump’s insistence that the military would follow his unlawful orders to murder women and children....If he won the White House and tried to implement his ‘policy,’ the military would refuse to comply — because it has honor, because it respects the law, and because it knows the lessons of history."

We remember Lt. William Calley, who ordered his men to massacre civilians at My Lai. We might remember Capt. Ernest Medina who established the rules of engagement for the assault on the hamlet and who reportedly participated in the massacre. We don't remember Warrant Officer Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr. who did what little he could to save some lives and to report to higher-ups what was happening, only to be ostracised and shunned.

I thus can't be certain that the US Military will do as General Hayden and David French insist and obey domestic and international law against the kinds of travesties Drumpf seeks to commit. Our own history shows that under the right conditions, US troops could act no differently than did the SS. All it takes is for the higher-ups to set the rules, as was the case at Abu Ghraib. How many officers went to the brig?

I'm not inclined under such history to trust the word of the military when -in the US- killing is incorporated into just about ever game available to kids reaching draft age - and the draft IS coming.

edited link

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

But at the same time, I'd trust them far, far more than I'd trust our police to do the right thing. Maybe not the higher ups, but the people at the bottom, those who still retain some of their humanity.

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Balderdash! To too many cops, we are all criminals guilty of crime. We just haven't been caught yet.

I once was in a class with a retired cop, who reported that one of the highest causes of death for police officers is suicide. It's as if the social isolation they impose to keep each other in line while conducting the war against crime eventually demonstrates to them that no one cares or likes them much. Psychology has proven that social isolation can even affect infants, resulting in higher rates of death. Why would cops be any different? Are they not human?

Not according to the training they get! They are ubermenschen - until they are not.

Too many instances of cops abusing the citizenry for me to trust cops very much.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Exactly, and they do it of their own volition. I think the number of people who join the police to do good are sadly far outnumbered by those who just don't care, or who signed up for the power trip.

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Agree with your statement, but just to mention, if you were replying to the comment above yours, the statement made actually was that they didn't trust militarized police.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

edg's picture

I think much of the confusion about Trump is that we're used to Democratic leaders who determine where the middle point is in a negotiation and then start negotiating from a point to the right of that.

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like "SJWs" and "PC police" and "femnazis". The first is to denounce them and the people who use them - this is the usual reaction and with regard to the people who normally use them the right reaction, but it is counterproductive, it simply adds to the social polarization and proves the evilsayers' point.
Please remember that "politically correct" was originally used by legitimate American leftists to label and expose stalinists. That is the second way. Stalinists are not leftists, and they existed. There are demagogues who call themselves progressives and feminists and such; and there are sincere people who have gone down a wrong path due to lack of thinking. By not exposing them or denouncing them or correcting them we perpetuate that which we detest, and we defeat our own purposes.

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On to Biden since 1973

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

the essence of the "lesser of two evils" argument. And it has given rise to groups that undermine the values of the left in a sort of self-destructive purist fervor.

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You are so right! Vote against all evil - if Bernie doesn't pull off a miracle, vote Green!

And ask yourselves why, in many States, Americans have to register in advance, advertising their choice, as supporting only a particular political party run by private interests in order to vote their 'secret ballot' and often must register so far in advance as to be unable to change their minds as new information is received regarding candidates/parties.

Why can Americans not even vote freely for their public officials on the fullest information possible, on the occasions where more accurate information is actually accessible outside of the corporate media PR machine? Even where blatant voter suppression is not easily and readily employed, due to such mandated registration, in order to control who gets to vote for what?

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

kharma's picture

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Or vote for the most evil. Tired of this fake middle ground garbage. If someone wants to vote for the "lesser evil" when there are choices that aren't evil at all, there is no reason for them not to vote for the most evil, in my mind.

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