Both Parties Are Not The Same
I am getting fed up with people assuming that my objection to both parties means that I think they are the same, I don't.
I think the Republican Party is now bat-shit crazy, racist, misogynist, homophobic, warmongering and corrupt
I think that the Democratic Party is just warmongering and corrupt.
There, you see, there are fundamental differences.
It's the similarities that get me, we must vote for the least bad is the meme du jour.
Why?
I thought we lived in democracy [yes I do know it's a Republic] where I could vote or not vote how I bloody well pleased?
My vote is not a given it has to be earned, now which of the two main parties has earned my vote?
I have watched the Democrats pardon war crimes, torture and murder whist at the same time ignoring their own under the pretences of exceptionalism.
I have watched the Democrats stand with their begging bowls out whilst at the same time decrying the money in politics.
I have watched Democrats discard a candidate that fought against this whilst hugging closely to its collective chest a candidate that has embraced whole heartedly its worst [in my eyes] tendencies.
The Democrats always hugging the excuse that they cannot change anything because "#Republicans!" won't let them do so has worn thin. they always do the best they can has become the stock excuse when they entrench the Status Quo yet further.
This is the time of year when we get flooded with promises that if we vote for them again it will all be hopey changey in the new year, then in February it will all be down to "what's possible", "be patient" and the final "you'll have to vote more of us in next time if you want anything to change!". Can kicked safely further down the never ending road. The cry will always be for more rather than better because when they have a chance for better they get annoyed and just say it's all about teh winning! If we win more next time, well, we will win more! More is better! But heaven forbid don't ask for stuff, now is not the time, just trust us!
Well, I don't trust you at all.
It's not up to me it is up to you to earn that trust and this last primary season has been retrograde in that respect I'm afraid. This time I am saying I don't believe you and it's going to take more money than you can hope to raise from the corporations in a hundred years, it's going to require proof. This time you don't have my vote.
Comments
apparently
a Reality has formed that no one actually cares about the guns, it's all a theatrical scam to cover up the stealing of the whiskey-keg from Saint Bernard.
"Forget it, Jake. It's Hofstadtertown."
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cWnubJ9CEw]
Nice reference to Richard.
Well done.
Yes, I'm beginning to see that vibe here. I think a healthy skepticism is always in order. But automatic assumptions of sinister motives (in all situations) are generally not so healthy.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
This is an insult, Dude,
Oh, you aren't allowed to make that statement against so many good intelligent people whom you don't know and still be someone I care to engage with.
Send me a message when you care about the proof I have of anything I support. Were you even interested in the resources I said I would provide for you?
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
WTH?
Where did that come from, Magicsestra? It was in no way an "insult."
And I've already said I wanted to read your research. I think it's been, oh, three or four times now?
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Why yes, yes...
how dare anyone be skeptical of politician's motives. How unhealthy.
JtC. Who was that directed at?
If it was at me, I said healthy skepticism is very important. I just have a problem with automatically assuming sinister motives. There is a huge difference between the two.
This sit-in just happened. I'd rather wait to see what happens next before I draw my conclusions.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Yes, that was directed at you...
it was pointed at your judgmental tendencies.
You misread it. Big time.
Take a look at the thread again. I see others here being judgmental, and mocking my opinion of the sit in, sometimes aggressively, and you piled on.
Reread the thread. Again, I said it was a good thing to have healthy skepticism. I just disagree with the automatic leap into total dismissal up front, and the dismissal of those of us who like what the Dems are doing in this particular case.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Now you're the victim…LOL
I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything.
Whew!
JtC: Vayle's exhibit C.
Yeah, I'm the judgmental one here, riiiiight.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
I'm with you Dio-77; I don't see anything from you
that has been censorious; bullying; over judgmental; or rude. If anything - and I've read your posts - you stick to the facts as they are known, give sources, and ask for clarification.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Thanks, Duckpin.
I enjoy your posts as well.
Anyway, I think it's time for a break.
Take care, all.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Yesterday it was...
folks were "confused" because they disagreed with you, today their disagreement is "unhealthy". Do you not see the "vibe" I'm picking up on? It's not the substance, it's your delivery.
JtC. So we're not allowed to say Trump voters are confused?
I assumed no one on a lefty site would BE in that category. I thought it was a pretty good bet that no one here would be a Trump supporter. I was wrong.
As for the rest. Again, I ask you to reread the thread. You've singled me out as "judgemental." It's pretty clear that I'm not alone. And it's pretty clear that I'm a lot more civil in my posts than some in this thread.
But, hey, if this site is welcoming to Trump voters, but not welcoming to those critical of Trump and the right in general, so be it. And if it would rather people not say bad things about Trump and the right, and just stick to 100% negatives about the Dems -- a party I also don't like -- that's cool, too. I'd just like to know upfront, so I can make other arrangements and spend my time doing something else.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
It's either...
you just don't get it, or you refuse to get it. It's not about the substance of your opinions, it's about the delivery. The subtle jabs you take at folks that disagree with you.
Again, I said it BEFORE anyone disagreed with me.
I made the comment about Trump voters BEFORE anyone disagreed with my take here. The disagreement was with the comment -- which seriously surprised me.
I assumed -- in error -- that there wouldn't be any other posters here who supported him.
Beyond all of that . . . again, why is that a problem, and it's not a problem to slam someone who thinks the Dems finally, after soooo much time, seem to have grown a spine -- at least on one issue?
I'm not getting your vision for this site at all. I really am not.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
he was
commenting on the judgemental tendencies of people on this site. Which are fully in view. People judging, on no evidence, that no one in Congress cares about the guns, that it's all a con, a scam, theater, to distract from the rigging, or the emails, or the Lizard People endorsing Trump, or something.
Thanks, Hecate.
Well said.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
What are the bills they're sitting in for?
Do we have a list of them and what they'll actually accomplish? I've seen conflicting information on that.
Where's your evidence that this isn't a scam?
They had a chance to do something real about guns and changing the whole makeup of Congress by supporting a wave candidate like Bernie. Instead they all lied about him and supported the status quo and all of the death, despair and destruction is brings. Caring about guns doesn't preclude taking advantage of a crisis to do some politicking. Show me what proof you have that they'd be staging this demonstration if it was November 12, 2016.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
it doesn't
work that way. People don't get to assert some Plot, and then, rather than offer evidence, instead demand it be disproved.
Where's your evidence that Dick Cheney is not in the wires in your house? That he's not Looking at you from the walls? That he doesn't come out in the night and steal the socks from the dryer?
Show me. Show me the proof.
People here talk about Occam's razor all the time, but they don't know what it means. They contort themselves til their bones break, that this is some nefarious Plot, which hundreds of people were in on, rather than see it for what it simplest was: a number of congressmembers who've been concerned about guns for years were frustrated that, again, nothing would be done, and so decided they should do something dramatic. They settled on a sit-in. They asked Lewis to lead it. For obvious historical reasons. And then they went ahead and did it. There wasn't a lot of planning, of thinking it out. People here generally favor that sort of thing. Spontaneity. Showiness. But not this time. This time it was a Plot.
People grouse: why didn't they do this for some earlier shooting? Why didn't they do it for some other issue? Because human beings are not logical, predictable, that's why. That's why everyone who tries to Nostradamus, inevitably quickly fails. Why did it take Charleston to bring down the slavery diaper, to rid the land of other emblems of the confederacy-of-dunces? People had been pushing for that for decades. And got nowhere. Why was it Michael Brown who awoke the nation to the fact that badged-up crackers kill young black men with all the ease and empathy of cleaning their nails? Why wasn't it one of the earlier tens of thousands of black men killed? Why did the French revolt under Louis XVI, when Louis XV and Louis XIV were tyrants so much worse?
Because, as Charles Fort observed, it steam engines when it comes steam engine time.
It does work that way.
You can't assert for without proof if I can't assert against without proof. In a court room, they'd have to at least swear under penalty of perjury that what they were saying was true. 24 hours, a lot of photo ops and quotes, and they're done leaving you and I with our unprovable opinions. So based on their track records and rapid dissolution of the protest, the only reasonable assumption is that the sit-in starring John Lewis was first and foremost a campaign stunt. So, I win.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
nope,
doesn't work that way in the courts. You would present your case of a Plot, which you don't have ; ) , and then, at the close of the presentation of your case, I simply move for a directed verdict, based on the fact you haven't proved a thing. I needn't say another word. The directed verdict is then entered, and that's that. ; )
Well said, again, Hecate.
This is more than ironic. My gut tells me that the people here who simply will not tolerate the tiniest sliver of light with regard to the Dems are recent converts to this hatred of theirs. Most likely due to their investment in the Sanders campaign, and his loss. They're recent converts to this opposition of the duopoly and oligarchy, too. I'm guessing it's new for them, which is how they can keep it burning at its white hot intensity, and brook no departures from that hate.
Me? I never joined the Dems in the first place, nor did I ever want to, being waaay to their left, and I've been in opposition to the duopoly and the oligarchy since I became politically aware more than four decades ago. I can't keep that white hot intensity going at my age, because it goes back too far in time. I've seen too much. I've seen the bad and the good and the indifferent, and I never expected enough from the Dems to let them wound me to the core when things inevitably fall short. It doesn't trip my outrage meter, 24/7, because I never expected much from them to begin with.
But, yeah, they piss me off too. Frequently. The GOP pisses me off more. But they both piss me off. But if they actually do something that surprises me, that makes me smile -- and that's really rare -- I've never seen a problem with giving them kudos. It's no big deal to me, because tomorrow something else will happen, and then the next day, and the next.
Life is too short to be in a perpetual state of white hot hatred. It's not healthy. It's not. It's good to see slivers of light when they actually appear in the sky. And if anyone has a problem with me remarking on that light, that's their problem, not mine.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Sure it did.
It just happened… LOL
This is so important, they must really really REALLy mean it this time!
It couldn't be another dog and pony show designed to get attention from certain voters in advance of the official election cycle.
JtC: Vayle is a case in point.
Note the tone.
It's not me being judgmental here.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
LOLOL
Hey, I'll admit I'm an asshole.
I'm not here to change minds and no one is likely to change mine either.
Your tend to be dismissive, yet couched in trying to appear intelligent and above certain things.
You like to try to pretend to some higher level (the holier than thou part of your act), but then whine as soon as someone calls you on your BS.
At least I am not pretending to be one thing and then whining to mods when people don't like my opinion.
Inhale, Inhale, - You're the victim
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmHDhAohJlQ width:500 height:400]
Vayle's exhibit D. He just keeps adding to the pile.
No pretenses in my posts. They're all WYSIWYG.
Let me know when you want to discuss the issues, rather than bash other posters. Until then, ignore my posts, por favor.
I'll be ignoring yours.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
WYSIWIG
..because no one else could be posting in that same manner.
Whatev.
----------
but lets not forget the awesome old school song by the same name.
What You See Is What You Get - Brenda K. Starr
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsP4HIl544g width:500 height:400]
Hey Vayle...
tone the asshole attitude down, I see way too much of that in the threads all over this site from you.
Are you asking me...
to take action, because I'm seeing a lot of judgmental attitude in this thread.
I got no reply when I asked if
I could send you any particular resources, before I dump a ton of stuff that may not interest you at all.
If this is due to a mistake on my part, I apologize. I was actually thrilled you asked and took it very seriously.
Then I saw you make a comment that sounded like you thought some people here just imagine bad things around every corner or something. That made me angry.
And, I'm flailing again. If you want some info, message me and I will do my best.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Note: I've had at least one message that I sent here lost
so apparently Caucmail is not 100% reliable. So don't infer anything if you get no response.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Thank you, Elenacarlena,
I didn't think of that.
I'm annoyed by this person acting like they know how I think and why, and being insulting about it. So, I was being a shit, and am not ready to apologize yet.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
You're making assumptions about assumptions.
That unhealthy skepticism
is the very reason for a site like this. You can say whatever you want, but you won't convince a lot of people out here anymore. Not after this primary season, not after all the spin and bullshit we have been subjected to. Bill Clinton banned assault rifles, but that was "allowed" to expire under GWB. What on earth would make you think this time it will stick?
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I said "healthy skepticism" is great.
My issue is with automatically assuming evil intentions from the get go. There is a grand canyon's difference between the two.
As for the gun ban. I'm "skeptical" anything will be done in the near time too. My point was that it was a good thing to see the Dems grow a spine, after so much time going fetal. I think it may well lead to something positive down the road. At least I hope so.
Why this sparked so much mockery, dismissal, and even some anger, is truly beyond me. And this is coming from someone who can't stand either party and has never been a Dem -- being waaaaay to the left of them. Hell, I'm an advocate for a non-violent, democratic overthrow of the entire system, resulting in a left-anarchist federation of independent, local, communal, fully democratic, egalitarian communities. No political parties. No ruling class. No classes, period.
I'm just happy a tiny sliver of light entered Congress, if for a moment.
Sheeesh.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
What spine?
You don't need a spine to put on a kabuki show for the disgusted voters who have had enough and who say Nie! to the fixed primary and Clinton machine. They needed to get a spine and not fall in line and fold like a cheap tent for the Clinton machine. No spines at all, no rays of sunshine, just a scam to make the voters think they give a shit about gun violence. If they had a spine they would have done some meaningful obstructing against the RW loonies long before this ridiculous kabuki fiasco. The progressive caucus being the most offensive spineless tools to me.
By the way some lefty people here there and everywhere will vote for Trump over Hillary that does not mean they are Trump supporters. They are just on a mission to bring this whole sham down fast. Or it could be that Trump does not scare them as much as the Mad Bomber does, lesser evils that are in no way lesser. For someone who bills themselves as being objective and factually based you certainly seem to scold and dismiss people who see this duopoly for what it is. A sliver of fake light is as cruel as the empty pocket full of hope the voters fell for after the Bushies. I don't know who I'm voting for I'll play it as it lays and it's really nobodies business but my own.
This site is not like dkos. People here are not piling on because they honestly and for good reason disagree with what your selling. Smells like fear and concern to me. I've been down the road leading to something positive for decades. I know where that road leads and I'm done traveling on it. It's a dead end.
Please tell me what you think I'm selling.
Take a look at my comments on this thread, and on this forum in general. The overwhelming majority of them are highly and consistently critical of the Dems. Be honest. Take a look. Review them. I have repeatedly criticized the Dems, Hillary, Obama, etc. etc. for their policies on a host of issues, from economics, to war, to the surveillance state and beyond. On issue after issue, I am against their policies and the way they govern.
So, what is it, exactly, that you think I'm trying to "sell" here when I made the mildest of comments, saying I'm glad they showed some spine. IMO, they did. Sue me. Apparently, just saying something that mild, that innocuous, opens up a little shit storm here, despite the overwhelming majority of my other posts that, again, are highly critical of the Dems as a part of the (corrupt and illegitimate) duopoly, a supporter of the oligarchy, and all too often in a fetal mode.
That little shit storm is an indication that, yes, this site has its own form of intolerance, its own self-righteous, all too quick to judge element, who feel the need to jump on an absolutely mild and harmless post, because it's not 100% in lockstep with the requirement that one must hate the Dems 24/7, with no brief moments of rest from that. For you and others here, it's simply verboten to offer the mildest of praise, within the context of my own ongoing, severe critique of the Dems.
You need some mirror time.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
I apologize, Diomedes77,
It was not my intent to flail at you.
I'm so worried.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
pfft. that's showing spine…sure it is - LOL
…actually, it is more it's theater, and attention grabbing.
Where are they on other major problems? How many other sit ins have they got planned to address problems - infrastructure, jobs, economy, top, corruption, off the table subjects that they had a duty to investigate and prosecute…
nope, nothing there, but oh yeah, they do this and some people think this is showing spine - nope - it's just more distraction
but keep on keeping on with that faith in them - that's what they want and need - for their pretenses to be believed.
Getting happy about an obviously manufactured and insincere display and calling this farce of a show a ray of sunshine…
- Oh that's a good one!!!
It's not about "keeping the faith."
I long ago gave up on the Dems. Likely before you were even born.
This is about action on an issue I see as very important. This is about the first show of opposition to the NRA's stranglehold on them in two decades.
If you want to dismiss that as meaningless, have at it. I couldn't care less what you have to say on the topic at hand, or any other.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Right back atcha.
Preachy, dismissive, holier-than-thou…
And yet you still buy into the dog and pony show.
Those Dems you gave up sure must love you. There will be a short intermission before the next show. Enjoy.
Woooooooo…
What the fuck ever.
I do thank you though. You have given me something else to laugh about today!
JtC: Vayle's exhibit B, etc.
This site is becoming the flip side of DKos. It's not welcoming to anyone who dares say something positive about anything. Even when that person is highly critical of the system overall. Just saying there is a sliver of light in the sky is a step too far here, apparently.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
JtC has asked you to stop being so aggressive.
As a mod, I'm reinforcing his directive to you. You are acting like an ass.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Rats. I was going to uprate until that last sentence.
Can't we disagree without being disagreeable (a general question, not directed to you alone, Diomedes)?
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Both parties have essentially
the same goals, but for different reasons. An example is Social Security. Republicans call it welfare and want it gone. Democrats want to limit it, slowly choking it off over time.
TPP is good for corporations, say the Republicans. TPP is good for the working class, say the Democrats.
Republicans want war because they are bigots. Democrats want war as a business opportunity.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Good point about motives for war.
Ya know, it's strange. As much as the GOP talks about its love of capitalism, its own policies are actually terrible for it. The Dems talk it up a bit less, or at least with less slavish devotion, but their policies keep it alive.
I want it to die.
Movement conservatives -- who are really to the right of conservatives -- just don't get how dependent capitalism is on government support, on BIG government. They just don't get how it would fall apart forever without the endless buttressing by government, its trillions in infrastructure, its trillions in wars, its trillions in bailouts, etc.
Their own policy ideas actually act to choke it off and keep it in recession. Without the Dems pushing for actual "conservative" policies, it would finally collapse for good.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Can’t have billionaires without government to enforce contracts
Can’t have rent-seeking monopolists without government continually expanding the reach of patents and copyrights way beyond their original legitimate purpose of encouraging authors and inventors.
Or without government raising barriers to entry in every industry, through a court system where it costs huge fees upfront to adjudicate anything or defend oneself against even the flimsiest, most frivolous lawsuits.
TPP is good for the working class, say the Democrats.
What a masterful piece of Orwellian mindfuck.
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
Good for the working class in that it adds vacation time.
It's like giving the working class majorly extended vacations, which we all need. One could argue that years and years of extended vacation, with no end until official retirement, may not be so great. But the TPP will certainly give us a lot more leisure time to enjoy our . . . . our, tent cities and food banks, right?
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
too broad a stroke, imo
It's not "the same" in the end. It's better -- somewhat --with the Dems re climate.
It's about leverage and reaching one's goals. Leverage would clearly be more effective advancing climate action with Dems than with the GOP, who wholly deny there is a problem.
We don't have the time wrt to climate change
the Dems will continue flapping, as I said its up to them to earn my vote up until now the haven't
Dem President is pushing TPP
which will unravel environtmental protections. Yes, I did paint with a very wide and deliberate brush.
I am just in a very dark mood since the rigging of the primary has become painfully obvious.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Nope...
History shows otherwise. At best, Dems favor a very slow incrementalism. At worse, Dems 'All of the Above' policy releases carbon that would otherwise remain in the ground.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Obama
For all the promise of Obama's presidency and for all its flaws, it has made the Democrats' hypocrisy all the more clear. Talk a great game and govern from a corporate mindset. But of all the failures of his oresidency, the one with the greatest impact could be his decision to inflate the resume of Hillary.
I'm reminded of this little gem.
It's from The American Conservative. I couldn't find the New York Times piece it refers to and Boris Berezovsky may never have actually said it. It doesn't really matter, it's an interesting idea.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I'm reading a bio of the Romanovs.
The Russians have a long history of that, and the rest of Europe even longer.
I don't think it comes from us. We actually got it from them.
It's incredible how often the Romanovs acted like a Game of Thrones episode, with tsars torturing their sons to death, to escape succession problems, mothers and grandmothers scheming to put their sons in power via coups. And the level of sadism involved was off the charts . . . . . Of course, Russia was far from being alone on that score.
The ruling class everywhere, through history, have been dominated by monsters, who dominate the people. That said, most science tells us that the vast majority of humans are hard-wired to be selfless and decent to one another, for the most part. It's almost always the sociopaths at the top who force and/or persuade "the people" to go against their instincts and better natures. Out of fear, confusion, paranoia, etc. etc.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
The Romanovs had elections ?
I think Boris was talking about electoral politics, and parties.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I was talking about political scheming in general.
Wasn't meant as a one to one correspondence, by any means.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Telling the people they were "free"
…and giving them the vote — was the thing that finally enslaved them utterly.
Boris was an evil genius, obviously, to employ electoral politics as the psyop of the people's ultimate surrender to the illusion of self-government. Their votes consistently betrayed their intentions and resulted in general adversity — but the people developed a consensual denial to replace the harsh truth.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
I want to add a comment to your thesis
I agree that we are hard-wired to be altruistic and community oriented. It also helps the individual survive. But because we still have that individualistic tendency, it can be manipulated. For example, my comment is supported by Ayn Rand's crap in the "Virtue of Selfishness" and some people have bought into it.
karl, thanks for your view on
manipulation and selfishness. We have work to do.
Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. Stephen Hawking
interesting to me, your avatar and your sig line
one seems a bit pessimistic and the other more optimistic. Yes, I think Camus is optimistic. There's no reason why we can't be both, though, so it makes sense you have the two.
Truer words have never been written . . .
From time to time I check in to see if I can add anything useful. As we muddle along inexorably toward the foregone conclusion of this election and its equally depressing aftermath, I have concluded that there is nothing I can do or say to alter the inevitable.
I Have No Mouth, and I am in a Kafkaesque Novel (with apologies to Harlan and Franz).
I am thinking,
sorry about that. Why is it we need parties?
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
I've been "thinking" that for a long time
something to hide behind is all I can come up with
I keep thinking it
is about fundraising.
There are probably hundreds of different ways to see it as a waste.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
We don't...
Many of the Founding Fathers hated the idea. However, they kinda set up the constitution to have them.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Think Team Sports
and winning. That, to me, is why we still have two parties, in name only of course.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Parties are all about power, deals and allies
I'll scratch your back....
The more you have on "your" side, the easier it is to gain control. If you're honest then it's easier to get good things done. If you're dishonest then it's easier to get bribes.
Both parties do have one thing in common--they cheat
Unless voters start standing up to their party elites about our bought and paid for, corrupt voting systems and easily rigged elections for a preferred candidate, all the talk about policies and platforms are nothing but an exercise in futility...we are told our votes matter but at the end of the day they only matter to voters when their candidate loses..until voters muster the political will to overhaul our voting systems and make election officials accountable each and every day, nothing will change. Until we display some righteous anger and until those of us who do have the political will are not derided for being conspiracy nuts or sore loses, what will change? Nothing. We are so focused on making change yet a corrupt official can wipe masses of people off voting rolls and exit polls can be off by a mile or fancy voting algorithms can subvert voter intent....and there are some rumblings online among the supposed "nuts" but otherwise, silence.
All of the things you talked about in your diary are spot on but are we as voters gonna keep talking about this stuff and constantly watch these things ripped away because our will is subverted at voting time by parties that will do whatever is required to keep things just as incestuous as they have always been? Until we fix the way elections are run and controlled in this country, we'll continue to get what they want us to have.
both parties have way more - WAY MORE in common
THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Where's the sit-in for rigged ballot and ballot counting?
It would have to be
a sit-in on themselves as they are the ones who rigged it with their consenting to support and aiid in the coronation of The Mad Bomber. Can't have the uppity voters making a bad decision that might rock their antidemocratic Third Way boat.
Both parties, far more similarities than differences -
and most of the differences between the two parties are superficial - especially when it comes to the really important aspect of representation and government 'of, by, and for the people'.
Split hairs on the little things. Split a few more on some bigger things. The Republidems and the Demopubs - the political class serves their monied masters and no one else. That they have to look to the people for votes is an annoyance that grows ever more obvious.
They're all a single party pretending to be two different parties, and that single party system benefits the wealth and business classes at the expense of the rest.
But,
Bernie still might win man, then he'll be the head of the Democratic party which will mean the Democratic party will be all good, or at least on the road to recovery. Giving up on the Democratic party is giving up on Bernie. And then there's Jesus Chavez, the up and coming Congressperson from Nirvana who will run for Democratic president in 2020. Get ready to GOTV.
The simplest objection is the best
Occam's Razor and all that:
Exactly. I will no longer look the other way, away from ANY corrupt warmongers, just because they might not be batshit crazy, racist, misogynist or homophobic. Because it don't matter if you're black, white, gay, straight, male or female--bombs will kill you dead, every single time.
Why don't we consider not waiting on Bernie
and move over to the Greens en masse.
I realize that Stein is probably not a perfect individual [who is?] but she'd be better for the country and for the world than either Clinton or Trump.
ETA:
I will, of course support Bernie should he by some miracle obtain the Dem nomination.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
I think a lot of folks are seriously
taking that under advisement. I know I'm voting Green if Sanders isn't on the ballot, but only if someone can demonstrate that my vote will actually count.
What I'd like to see considered is a House Sit-In to call attention to our clusterfuck of computerized voting and proprietary software that alleges to count our ballots. I doubt I should hold my breath, though...
Great eassy
Thank you for these points and since both parties are basically the same (supporting the establishment) I will not be voting for either of their presidential candidates. Basically, they are just exclusive clubs and say a big F you if you are not part of it. Therefore, to help stop the madness I will not support either major club.
I'm just waiting for BernDay
When we all burn our registrations with the Dem Party and register with the Green or Independent.
They may not be exactly the same...
But both of them are moving our country in the same direction, to the right, one more incrementally than the other. You're absolutely right. Have Clinton or Obama actually changed where Reagan and both Bushes were taking us? No. Unfortunately, a few good positions on social issues and symbolic identity politics really doesn't fix the overall trajectory issue, which is what a lot of Democrats don't understand.
They're so busy fighting the current battle that they can't see that they've been losing the war for the last 35 years, not just against the Republicans, but against corporatism and the co-opting of their own party. The fact that so many of them are blindly defending "progressive" politicians that espouse conservative policies only affirms how fundamentally broken and unprincipled the party is.
I agree with your analysis:
But those are plenty of reasons not to want the Repubs, especially the Trump monster, in charge. So if you're going to go third party, go big. Volunteer, donate if you can. At least as much as you have to date. Don't vote to be a spoiler or lodge an anemic protest. Vote to win.
And write the sound-bite-sized stories that win elections. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/18/opinion/how-to-win-an-election.html?_r=0
Then spread them far and wide.
Bern had 45% Dems, most Indies, can peel away Repubs. All we need is to replace the Dems who will bow to Clinton. Replace them with new voters that feel inspired.
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Exactly what kind of proof will it take to earn trust
for the Democratic party and democratic party politicians?
What I'm seeing on this blog is a lot democratic party bashing while at the same time hoping for something that will prove the party will get better. People still clinging to the hope that if only the elections weren't rigged the democrats could gain the majority in the house and better yet, elect more progressives to the Democratic party, and if only we could "get money out of politics" the representative system would magically work in the Serf's favor.
That's what Bernie's revolution is, electing more and better democratic party politicians. Seems like most on here have not given up on Bernie's revolution for the Democratic party.
So was the proof electing Bernie? Or is it more than that?
If Stein isn't on the Texas ballot,
I got nothing.
Not sure of the rules, but it is likely that I cannot sing the petition to get her on the ballot because I voted in the primary.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
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