WHY NO ONE HERE WILL OR SHOULD EVER VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON

For nearly a half century – since late in the Vietnam War – the Democrats have been the less warlike of the two parties, but understand that has now flipped completely around with the selection of Neocon Hillary Clinton. I'm confident that this readership (here) is knowledgeable enough to know not to ever vote for and empower Hillary Clinton under any circumstances.

But in case there is any doubt that remains, or in case there is the possibly that people would be fooled should she pick (and also neutralize) Elizabeth Warren as her VP --- here is a quick little refresher of the Worldwide disaster that is guaranteed to happen if Hillary Clinton is put in command of the U.S. Military and CIA.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpVXDGH6rTA width:450]

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And while many people now worry over the hypothetical threat of Donald Trump doing something stupid or dangerous in Foreign Policy, Hillary Clinton is no hypothetical threat at all -- she is a proven (worst-case) threat, and a serial, repeated, unrepentant wrecking ball upon the entire World, and on the American people (whose own economic and physical well being is stolen away in order pay these tremendous costs which bankrupt our Country).

Clinton has made it clear that she is eager to use military force (murder) to achieve illegal “regime change” in all countries that "get in the way" of U.S & Global Corporate, Banking, and Oil Cartels. And among a long, preselected list of other planned upcoming War Atrocities, Hillary Clinton also intends to take this Country into direct Military confrontations with Russia itself, with grave consequences awaiting us all.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LKAt1t_8M width:450]

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With the selection of Hillary Clinton as the head of the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party has now reinvented itself, and supplanted the GOP as the most aggressive Party of unrestrained Global Warfare and War Crimes.

Clinton has already declared that as President she would order the U.S. military to invade Syria. “Yes, I do still support a no-fly zone,” she said during the April 14 debate. She also wants a “safe zone” that would require seizing territory inside Syria.

Perhaps even scarier is what a President Clinton would do regarding Iran and Ukraine, two countries where belligerent U.S. behavior could start much bigger wars. For instance, President Hillary Clinton has stated she will push the Iranians so hard – in line with what Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu favors – that they would have to renounce the nuclear deal which would then give Clinton the excuse needed to start bombing Iran (which may also draw in Russia). In Ukraine, Clinton wants to escalate U.S. military support for the post-coup anti-Russian Ukrainian government, encouraging its forces to annihilate the ethnic Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine. Once again Russia will have no choice but to be drawn in.

The mainline neocons are already lining up to endorse Clinton and her Warfare agenda, especially given Donald Trump’s hostile takeover of the Republican Party and his disdain for many of the neocon strategies that he (correctly) views as simply spreading chaos around the globe. For example, Robert Kagan, co-founder of the neocon Project for the new American Century, has already formally endorsed Hillary Clinton.

Until the criminal regimes of Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama, our past American presidents from John F. Kennedy forward worked to reduce tensions with the Soviets. Kennedy worked with Khrushchev directly to reduce tensions caused by US missiles in Turkey and Soviet missiles in Cuba. President Nixon negotiated SALT I (the Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty) and the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. President Carter negotiated SALT II, which was never ratified by the US Senate but was observed by the executive branch. Even Ronald Reagan negotiated with Soviet leader Gorbachev at the end of the Cold War.

All of these achievements have been thrown away by the Neoconized Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama regimes, each an aggressive criminal regime on par with Nazi Germany - and with the blood of millions of dead bodies left on its hands.

Simply put: Hillary Clinton can never be U.S. President. Unlike Trump, who is a bit of a loose cannon, Hillary Clinton is a scripted, deliberate, cold, calculating, psychopathic menace upon the World stage that represents the same evil, crooked agenda that Dick Cheney and W. Bush does -- only with even much wider global scope, and far-reaching treachery upcoming.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Some people may draw totally wrong conclusions that the problem isn't the criminality of the financial establishment...but the ethnicity/religion of certain members of it.

We don't want THAT. Not here. Not ever.

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mhagle's picture

I am reading this in the middle of the night, so maybe not that clear . . . would you explain your comment please? Not that I agree or disagree, just don't get it.

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

riverlover's picture

who are purportedly Jewish and historically in the banking industry. So bringing up hints of a Jewish conspiracy and yes, we do not want to go there.

I may have spelled the name wrong.

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Cachola's picture

It's fine to talk about the Rockefellers but not the Rothchilds? That is tantamount to accusing someone of antisemitism because they protest Israel's human rights violations against Palestinians.

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

riverlover's picture

Big money families are a fine target. And I am not anti-semite, married one, my children's ggrandfather emigrated from now-Slovakia, and that family is gone.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

The specific name "Rothchild" is used in a very specific dog-whistle, and any discussion of said dog-whistle does not preclude discussion of any actual facts, anywhere. It does, however, make it imperative that all accusations involving this family start with direct evidence rather than suppositional suspicion.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

stop supporting the Scoop Jackson Society and other neocon projects like socalled "inclusive capitalism,". More importantly stop supporting Hillary, and stay off twitter. She is encouraging antisemitism by existing. Being a right wing sleaze, and an open republican mole in the democratic party, and encouraging republicans to join the democrats, doesn't help her image either.

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...and stop enabling the military-industial-security-surveillance complex...He is encouraging racism by existing..."

"Maybe Ann Coulter should change her name...She is encouraging sexism by existing..."

FAILFAILFAILFAILFAIL

When will bigots get it through their thick heads that actions by one member of a category DO NOT and should not be taken to reflect on everybody in the category as a whole?

This is bigotry in one of its clearest forms.

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Euterpe2

Rothschilds is antisemitic. I don't get that. I gather the point is that since the Rothschilds are Jewish family you can't criticize them for being Republican. But other jewish conservatives have been mentioned in this this thread too, like the Kagans. Nobody would have known the Rothschilds were Jewish just based on the original posts.

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and read up and/or talk to a number of Jewish people to develop a sense of historical context. You may not have intended to blow a dog whistle. But that's what it amounted to.

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Euterpe2

I do dislike Lynn Rothschild because of she supported McCain and was a Pumas. I also dislike her for her neoliberalism and warmongering. The history of antisemitism doesn't exempt people from criticism for the shit they really do.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Rothschild = Jewish.

"Criminal Banksters" I could have gone along with 1000% (it's a virtual tautology anyway). "Criminal Rothschilds" - don't go there, Dorothy!

(The "Dorothy" in question is Ms. Hamill, who was co-commenting a pairs figure-skating event with Peter Carruthers (a former pairs skater). The man in a pair of competitors did a full frontal face-plant right onto his family jewels, and Ms. Hamilll opined something like, "I bet that hurts!" Carruthers - who should know - promptly replied, "Don't go there, Dorothy!")

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be Jewish? That really does sound like an all criticism of Israel is antisemitism argument. I guess Bernie is antisemtic for wanting to regulate bankers. Anyway the orignal poster didn't talk about their judaism. He only talked about the history of the family. If you dispute this history and say the claims about them are madeup claims from antisemites, you could dispute it and give us some links. I know about their modern members like Lynn, more than the 17th century ones. Even if their family were maligned in the past, Lynn's history is well documented by her own accounts and activities.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Otherwise you're tarring innocent people with a very dirty brush. And yes, I'm quite sensitive about this matter - my sister married a rabbi's son.

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Bisbonian's picture

criticizing a group, which likely will include some innocent people. You could just as easily substitute the word *race* or *ethnicity* or *religion*. The specific people, individuals, are the ones who need to be criticized, if they have done something worthy of it. You've got it exactly backwards.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

TheOtherMaven's picture

composed of bankers who act like mobsters. It isn't who they are, it's what they do.

Bankers who don't act like criminals don't need to feel that it applies to them. The same type of "exemption" cannot be applied to any class defined by what people are.

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Bisbonian's picture

You? Every other group on the planet, we need to consider individual differences, because we may be tarring innocent members of the group with the same brush...EXCEPT "criminal bankers"... Because the non-criminal bankers know they are not included. That's ludicrous.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Deja's picture

I'm pretty bad at just "knowing" that unless I'm told.

I dated a man who told me his name was Jewish because his adoptive parents are Jewish. I didn't realize his name said he was Jewish. I've never understood how people just know. Guess I'm out of the loop.

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If no one ever speaks of their actual name, then it is impossible to ever hold them accountable.

Don't you see that you have just created a big diversion? The subject here was never about religion (never mentioned in either video), so by trying to deliberately and falsely inject religion into this discussion -- you are: 1) creating a phony diversion (just like the mainstream media does), and 2) letting this criminal family completely off the hook.

I ain't buying your bullshit. Hold them accountable!

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TheOtherMaven's picture

in your crossfire. People like my sister, my brother-in-law, my niece, and their extended family - large portions of which went into extermination camps and never came out.

Can you do that?

Or is it more important to drone them all, no matter how many innocents must die?

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The Rothschilds financed Germany during WWII, so stop making up stuff and hijacking this thread with false issues. They are not the victims here.

The 99% (and that includes all religions) are the victims of this evil and corrupt family dynasty.

Stop giving the Rothschilds a pass!

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB1yKsXUMh4 ]

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG_yVHH_gRs]

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TheOtherMaven's picture

His bully-boys will be GLAD to have another despised minority to terrorize, if they aren't doing so already.

Frankly, you ARE stirring shit just to stir shit, and you know it. That's arguably the MOST offensive thing about what you are doing.

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hester's picture

I just don't have the time now.

Tidbits:

Derek Penslar describes modern economic antisemitism as a "double helix of intersecting paradigms, the first associating the Jew with paupers and savages and the second conceiving of Jews as conspirators, leaders of a financial cabal seeking global domination."[2] Throughout history, the stereotype of Jews as being connected to greed, money-lending and usury has stoked anti-Jewish sentiments and still to a large extent influences the perception of Jews today. Reuveni and Wobick-segev suggest that we are still haunted by the image of "the mighty, greedy Jew".[3] Allegations regarding the relationship of Jews and money have been characterized as underpinning the most damaging and lasting antisemitic canards.[4]

Antisemites have often promulgated myths related to money, such as the canard that Jews control the world finances, first promoted in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and later repeated by Henry Ford and his Dearborn Independent.

During the 17th and 18th centuries, anecdotal remarks from Christian merchants and traders show that there were negative feelings towards Jewish business people, who were sometimes regarded as liars or cheats. Werner Sombart concluded that the perceptions of cheating or dishonesty were simply a manifestation of Christian frustration at innovative commercial practices of Jews, which were contrary to custom and tradition of the Christian merchants, but were otherwise ethical.[19]

Why did Jewish men become money-lenders? Because every other fucking profession was closed to them. Every single one:

ne form of economic antisemitism in the medieval period were legal restrictions imposed on the occupations and professions of Jews. Local rulers and church officials closed many professions to the Jews, pushing them into marginal occupations considered socially inferior, such as tax and rent collecting and moneylending, tolerated then as a "necessary evil". Catholic doctrine of the time held that lending money for interest was a sin, and forbidden to Christians. Not being subject to this restriction, Jews dominated this business. The Torah and later sections of the Hebrew Bible criticize usury but interpretations of the Biblical prohibition vary. Since few other occupations were open to them, Jews were motivated to take up money lending. This was said to show Jews were usurers, and subsequently led to many negative stereotypes and propaganda. Natural tensions between creditors (typically Jews) and debtors (typically Christians) were added to social, political, religious, and economic strains. Peasants who were forced to pay their taxes to Jews could personify them as the people taking their earnings while remaining loyal to the lords on whose behalf the Jews worked.

They couldn't practice, law, medicine, they couldn't practice 'trades", couldn't run 'shops', couldn't own land. So much was forbidden. Tailors and lenders. That was it.

I have much more to say about this.... but no time now

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Don't believe everything you think.

however.

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Euterpe2

hecate's picture

There's a blast from the past. Time was, a Bircher couldn't order a sandwich, without uttering the word "Rockefeller."

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TheOtherMaven's picture

building those big stone walls around their Pocantico Hills estate to keep the "peasants" (like my ancestors) out. Blum 3

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hecate's picture

Bircher reality, Rockefellers are Hebrew Communists, spreading everywhere Karl Marx.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

...... is an anti-semitic dog whistle.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

They openly promote both neoliberal austerity policies and neoconservative foreign policy and have for years. If there were no objective reason to criticize them other than their name you might have a point. I also know progressive Rothschilds, but non are closely related to this family.

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riverlover's picture

Does the Walton clan promote neoliberal austeritly policies (yes) and neoconservative or neoliberal foreigh policy (???). Big money gets used to begat more money.

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there is plenty of criticism of the Koch brothers and the Waltons here. Why are Rothschilds offlimits?

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riverlover's picture

into the conversation. That's it.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

and the label should either have been more generalized ("Criminal Banksters", e.g.) or left off entirely.

We're getting enough hate speech from Trump and his more maniacal followers. We must not do anything to feed those toxic flames, or we too will get burned. Niemoller learned that the hard way, and tried to warn us - but we refuse to listen.

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Alphalop's picture

For Example, when some says the name Kennedy, my first thought isn't, "Oh that Irish Roman Catholic Family" it's probably gonna be something like, "Oh, the family that has been involved in Democratic Politics."

Just like when I hear the name Rothschild my first thought isn't "Oh that Jewish Family..." it's, "Oh, those fucking greedsters." because that is what their FAMILY history is composed of and known for.

Nobody ever mentioned Jewish until that comment, not even in a subtle "Dog Whistle" fashion, at least not to my perception.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

hester's picture

ve this place.

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Don't believe everything you think.

Yes, I agree. So often potential, informative comments around the internet become hijacked by antisemitism so that the momentum of energy building anti establishment teachings and actions are subverted by divisiveness and hatred. Same old game. The two mainstays of divide and conquer politics, scare them and divide them. Pacify them into submission.

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lunachickie's picture

stifling of ANY conversation.

The criminality of anyone overrides their ethnicity and their religion (and their race, for that matter).

It is not verboten to speak one way or another of people simply because of what religion they happen to be. No, no no no NO. I do not and never have appreciated that anywhere, and I am asking that the mods here to step in on this, NOW.

If these people had a last name that evoked their Catholicism, we wouldn't give a damn about speaking of them as if they were greedy--if they'd proven themselves already to be such. Such is the case with the Rothschilds. I don't give a flying fuck who or what they call "God", greedy, warmongering bastards come in all shapes, sizes, sexes, ethnicities, and religions, and it should not be less or more verboten to discuss any of them because of who they happen to worship.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

face-planting right on your family jewels. The latter will hurt (other people, in this case) like hell and potentially make you a laughingstock.

The Rothschilds were no way the only criminal bankster family of the 19th century, and are no way the only criminal bankster family in the 21st. To pick on them specifically is bad form at best - and a very suspicious-looking Trojan horse at worst.

How about some badmouthing of the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, Goulds, Morgans, Carnegies and so forth? To say nothing of the Kochs, Waltons and Gateses....

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lunachickie's picture

When that subject comes up, are you saying that nobody EVER talks about the others mentioned in your post? Or do they have to be talked about HERE in the same discussion, in order to not be "Trojan" about the Rothschilds?

How about some badmouthing of the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, Goulds, Morgans, Carnegies and so forth? To say nothing of the Kochs, Waltons and Gateses....

Because you see plenty of that, probably even here on this forum already. The Kochs and the Vanderbilts and the Rockerfellers and particularly the WALTONS, have ALL been "badmouthed" here. So what is the difference when the people are the Rothschilds?

Seriously? I'm sorry to be so disagreeable, but I find that argument to be a tad dishonest. If the general topic offends you, well, I'm very sorry-but these people are what they are--friends of the Clintons.Therefore, they are relevant to this discussion.

I await moderator input. We cannot exclude a group of people who happen to (cough) hang around with criminal elements and then break bread with potentially the next POTUS, because they happen to be of a particular religion. If we can, that is a serious problem, IMO.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, Goulds, Morgans, Carnegies, Kochs, Waltons and Gateses....Petersons, Adelsons, Buffetts, and all these guys: [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8HekexIUy8]

Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all. I don't care about their race or religion. Sorry if that offends.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

The Rothschilds are the World's biggest and most powerful of all the Banking Dynasties. They created the corrupt debt-driven, private Central Bank System that enslaves the entire World.

Try learning something for once ... instead of just hijacking this entire thread and falsely injecting religion into this (which was never intended).

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB1yKsXUMh4 ]

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG_yVHH_gRs ]

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TheOtherMaven's picture

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Big Al's picture

To not criticize the Rothschilds specifically is criminal in itself. That's one of the most evil families that have inhabited this planet. Doesn't matter whether they're jewish or indian or arab or whatever, the deeds and actions tell the story. That is the preeminent criminal bankster family on the planet and you say not picking on them specifically is bad form? How utterly ridiculous.
Thou doeth protest too much.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

it IS a package deal, it IS connected to a long, long history of very ugly hate-filled propaganda, and you ARE defending a poster who is clearly and explicitly out to stir shit for the sake of stirring shit.

And unfortunately the original diarist's point has been completely annihilated.

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Alphalop's picture

myself a little time since we said pretty much the same thing.

I agree with you 100% on your entire post. As an Atheist I think all religions are equally silly. Smile

silly.jpg

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Speaking of "party unity" - LOL, it was Lynn who started Democrats for McCain when Shrillary lost the primary in 2008. She went the farthest of the PUMA's - she really wanted more of the Lincoln Bedroom parties.
As Dave Barry would say, "You can't make this stuff up."

A.B.C. = Anybody But Clintons ( yes, plural, it's BOTH of them!)

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lunachickie's picture

I knew of that, and the sheer hypocrisy of the whole situation makes my blood boil.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Rich or poor, white, black, brown, green or purple with pink polka dots. But to point to one asshole and imply that the whole family and everyone who shares obvious characteristics with them are assholes - that's several kinds of logical fallacy, starting with Faulty Generalization.

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my vote for any price,I have children and grandchildren and I would never sell their future.

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snoopydawg's picture

And why not? She has said that she is going to continue Obama's legacy and he has been continuing PNAC's goals in the Middle East.

Here we go again. Earlier this year, some were surprised to see Project For The New American Century (PNAC) co-founder and longtime DC fixture Robert Kagan endorse former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for president.

They shouldn’t have been. As is now clear from a policy paper [PDF] published last month, the neoconservatives are going all-in on Hillary Clinton being the best vessel for American power in the years ahead.

For the neocons and liberal interventionists at the Center for a New American Security, the United States has always acted for the benefit of all. The paper primarily focuses on the economy and defense budget, and American security interests in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Supporting the Trans-pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) are considered the highest priority, as they will bind the main drivers of the US-led “liberal world order”—the US and Europe—closer together.
According to the paper, “Even in a world of shifting economic and political power, the transatlantic community remains both the foundation and the core of the liberal world order.” In other words, the West must maintain control of the planet, for the good of all, of course.

The goal for decades has been for a new world order where there are no national boundaries or regulations that would get in the way of the corporation's profits.
Bush Sr. even said "new world order" in one of his state of the union addresses.
First Clinton helped set the stage for the global economic crisis that happened during Bush' term.
Bush then released the start of PNAC's goals and Obama's job was to continue it and then create the TPP and the other non trade agreements that have nothing to do with trade but set the stage for removing national sovereignty under the TPP. And it's not just for our country, but other countries won't be able to continue providing the social contracts that they have. Like medical care because of some of the pharmaceutical rules . I will try to find the article that backs this up.
Also under the TPP, the US can decide if another country's election is valid. There's a lot more information regarding how bad the TPP is. And IMO, it's treasonous what our government officials are going to be allowing the corporations to do.
And then Hillary's job will be to make sure that the TPP and the other agreements are fulfilled.
And remember that NATO has begun war games in 20 countries surrounding Russia and the US has ships patrolling off China's coastal areas .
Imagine if either of those countries were in Canada, Mexico or off of our coastal areas.
And that is why our elections have been stolen from us. Hillary's was done so blatantly, I don't understand how so many people can be blind to it.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clintons-project-for-a-new-american...

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

PastorAgnostic's picture

Victoria Nuland, was her point person on Ukraine and NATO while she was SecState.

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riverlover's picture

who have at best dubious, if not decidedly neo-con backgrounds, the one contact between all of them is money, enough to toss around. A very large graphic web. Arrows undetermined.

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snoopydawg's picture

Because I had the audacity to laugh at Warren's tweet that Hillary will close the revolving door between Wall Street and the banks.

Somehow it got into someone defending the invasions of Libya and Syria. The person had written how Gaddafi was murdering his people in the streets and that's why we had to intervene.
I wrote back that people are believing the government's propaganda and asked them to remember the babies being thrown out of incubators and that Saddam had WMDs.
Boy did I get quite the lecture from that person. But I happily wrote my own lecture back and posted the link I provided in my comment above.
I find it stunning that people won't drink the republicans propaganda, but will believe the democrats.
LOF used to be against the goals of PNAC until Obama started doing it.
And the use of drones that have killed close to a million innocent civilians is acceptable for some people there because no US troops are getting killed.
Just fucking amazing how people can be so enamored by a person and accept the unacceptable.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Somehow it got into someone defending the invasions of Libya and Syria. The person had written how Gaddafi was murdering his people in the streets and that's why we had to intervene.
I wrote back that people are believing the government's propaganda and asked them to remember the babies being thrown out of incubators and that Saddam had WMDs.

All these things are the argument technique, much beloved of neocons, known as "waving the bloody shirt". It's named after the technique actually used by the Austro-Hungarian Empire of displaying the shirt that Archduke Franz Ferdinand was wearing on the last day of his life, to rally the peoples of Austria-Hungary to the war that it was trying to start. The war that ended up becoming World War I.

I applaud you, snoopydawg, for not buying into it nor allowing any of your compatriots to do so in peace.

Give rose

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Alphalop's picture

But then again, I am always down for Pirate Humor. Smile

A pirate ship appears on the horizon. The captain says "Men, bring me my red shirt!" The first mate fetches the shirt and the captain successfully leads an attack on the pirates that sinks their ship.

One of the sailors asked the captain "Why do you wear a red shirt in battle?" The captain responded "because if I am wounded, you will not see blood and will continue to fight as if nothing is amiss." The crew was astounded at the bravery of the captain.

Later, twenty pirate ships appeared on the horizon. The men looked to the captain, waiting for the request that brought everyone so much strength. The captain looked at the horizon and said, "Men, bring me my brown pants!"

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Pluto's Republic's picture

LOF used to be against the goals of PNAC until Obama started doing it.

Just fucking amazing how people can be so enamored by a person and accept the unacceptable.

And, yet, decent Americans are unaccountably spooked by such eerie behavior. Why? Because they saw it less than a century ago in Germany. They saw the identical cognitive dissonance in the German people. Toward the end, the German's immoral surrender to a state bent on Empire, turned them into unthinking, soulless zombies. This type of soul-death — currently emergent in the US Democratic Party — represents a threat to the entire world. And the world knows this.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
riverlover's picture

I just read it, another plausible scenario of events of Friday, somewhat matching who said what/when, statements made, guessing at closed door conversations, mood reading (That Obama endorsement), etc. See what you think.

There is still time between now and the Convention. Much can happen, tick, tick. Interested in comments. I know nothing about that blog.

https://throughthechaff.com/2016/06/10/under-indictmentthe-democratic-pa...

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stevej's picture

with some interesting speculation. I do like the way the author invokes occam's razor then piles on supposition after supposition.

Just to unravel one strand: The all of the senate Dems elect the Dem senate leader. They are not going to elect someone who will make their life difficult with regards to their own donors. This is why, under the current system, leaders will always be Senators from the pigs at the trough wing of the party. The likes of Daschle, Reid and probably Schumer. There is no mechanism for two people in a room making the decision.

I did enjoy the piece though - good to go over the tea leaves every now and then.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Bisbonian's picture

They are NOT going to 'reward' Bernie for anything.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

lunachickie's picture

way that gives anyone anything tangible in the end, particularly him. Absolutely agreed.

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stevej's picture

Due to his campaign we now know exactly who the real progressives are and who are the careerists. The villagers (not just the politicians) will never forgive him for that.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

that your linked article doesn't mention is the subsequent leaking of damning emails. I suspect that Obama's rushed timing of endorsement may be related to the FBI. Possibly the FBI gave O a deadline: instruct the DOJ to indict by this date or we release email evidence against Hillary. I wonder if we'll learn of one or two clusters of emails every business day from now on until or unless we have an indictment.

Damn, I voted for Obama, and now have little respect for him, but I still have an ingrained desire to believe him on some level, like that he did the endorsement only because of a complicated set of deals back in 2008. For instance, if Hill had primaried him in 2012, she probably would have won. But she didn't & he just endorsed her. I understand that they are crooked dem bed-fellows, but he can't personally like her, can he?

Also, I think the empty press conference with Reid was supposed to be B's endorsement of H. I doubt Reid had offered Bernie any consolation prize, just because I can't imagine what it could have been.

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lunachickie's picture

since it happened.

I think the empty press conference with Reid was supposed to be B's endorsement of H. I doubt Reid had offered Bernie any consolation prize, just because I can't imagine what it could have been.

And he let them all down.

Boo hoo hoo hoo. Good for him. But what I"m afraid of is tomorrow's news cycle--what with all the people running around with guns, and shooting the fuck out of innocents (20 more victims last night in Orlando, as if Orlando didn't have enough blood on its hands from Friday night) will leave the Democratic primary headlines in the dust, temporarily. Which of course it should, I'm not saying it shouldn't. But lo and behold, it will be in the dust just long enough to kill any lingering Bernie momentum and keep any shenanigans against him way down on the list of "news" to report.

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Lookout's picture

I enjoyed the writers take. As you suggest there is time for who knows what to happen before the convention. Let's be hopeful.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Her strategy is already public, confront Russia and China and they will back down. Increase the cost of aiding Assad against ISIS in Syria. Confront Iran through increased sanctions and military presence. Confront Russia with more sanctions, aid to the Ukrainian extremists with a big military buildup, all the while screaming Minsk II, although Russia is in accord with the treaty and the Ukraine is not. She will send the Pacific fleet out to China's coast to intimidate them, and try to sign their neighbors to exclusionary trade agreements.

These countries are well aware of this and are taking precautions right now. Russia is delivering the long promised upgraded S300 missile and aircraft defense system to Iran. Bombing Iran may incur an impossible cost to the US, and will involve the sinking of US warships. If Clinton increases the lethality of aid to the Ukraine, Russia will preemptively take the entire country. That would take a few hours, it's a total mismatch. China will exert it's considerable naval force and sink US warships in claimed Chinese naval territory.

Is this what we want? I think that we have to seriously consider our votes. We are now in condition red, once she's elected it's too late. If you vote for Jill or write in Bernie you are suppressing your own vote, which is what Hillary woud do to you. I'm beginning to think that this time , once again, we hold our noses but this time we vote for Trump. I can't imagine that his term would be anything but tumultuous and he would be bucking his own party. He would get impeached or rendered impotent, either outcome is far better than having Clinton as President.

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

riverlover's picture

and the real discussion of calculations can begin. It's going to be a rough few months, and we see for maybe much longer. Tipping point has arrived.

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"Hold your nose and vote for Trump." Good grief, that this sentence has some merit just shows how stupid and depraved our politics has become.

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lunachickie's picture

I've learned a lot more about Her just in the last couple months--enough to scare the hell out of me and vote for Orange Dude.

I just can't do that, though--but it's why She will never get my vote and why The Greens are going to.

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elenacarlena's picture

a lot more proof that Hillary would start war with Russia and China.

Right now, my thinking about this is that she would stop short of setting off a world war, because although she is greedy, she is fundamentally rational. And war with another superpower means nuclear annihilation. She enjoys her child and grandchild(ren), at least. At this point, I cannot picture her going there.

Trump, OTOH, of course we don't have any record for him, he has never been in government. But from what he has said so far, I can see him thinking he can do whatever he pleases - hell, he already said he could shoot people and would still be popular - and losing his little-boy temper at someone like Putin and starting WWIII.

So I am open to being convinced. But Trump scares me for his arrogance and his temper and his impulsivity and his unwillingness to listen to advice, a very dangerous combination.

I want to see us go to the convention and demand a statement promoting peace. Of course she can change her mind later, but the more she discusses the issues we love, the less likely she is to feel she has the leeway to change her mind. Make her the best candidate she can be, even if she's still pretty crappy, in case she wins in November.

Then afterward, let's talk about the viability of Bernie as a third-party candidate. In 2014, 65% or so of voters stayed home. The ones I talked with afterward, they were simply not excited about the minuscule difference between Repub and Repub Lite. If those voters come out for Bernie this year, he has it won.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

because she "can't help herself", doesn't know when to stop, and thinks that "backing off" is a sign of weakness.

As for Trump, Putin knows a bloviating asshole when he sees one - because he is one. And he knows how to handle that type.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

elenacarlena's picture

nevertheless sometimes it's necessary and she's pragmatic. Where is evidence that she can't help herself? Is that something she has said?

How do you think Putin would handle Trump?

Thank you for the discussion!

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mimi's picture

to Putin's backyard datscha (dacha) somewhere in Russia near Moscow, hype up their con-artistery to masterful levels, make super sexy selfies of themselves and get drunk with Wodka. One of them rides off with some billions of rupees/dollars/whatever currency to eventually get into a car accident in Hollywood some months later. Conspiracy theories of what had happened in that super-secret meeting will linger around in the media for the next three decades. Meanwhile all those secret emails and recordings get lost and the NSA makes a fool of itself./s

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Oh the back-stabbing, the fixers, the off-stage shenanigans, the corruption and greed, the lies and deceit, the cons, the traitors, the electoral fraud, the collusion, the despair, the humanity. Everything a modern-day Shakespeare could employ in a bang-up rendering of these fraught times, minus the poetry because ... Twitter.

This has been a helluva week. It started with a preemptive Clinton/media strike against Bernie voters with propaganda about Clinton gaining enough (anonymous) superdelegates to "clinch" the nom, suppressing likely Bernie voters. Then polling "irregularities" and big Bernie losses not aligning with the neck-and-neck polling data. Next was the Thursday pile-on of Bernie by the Big Four Dem Enchiladas: Obama, Biden, Reid and Schumer. That followed by Obama's tepid endorsement of Hill via video, Earnest's press conference and hint that Hill's gonna/might be/couldn't tell ya indicted. Next up, Obama met with Attorney General Loretta Lynch over Hill's fate/indictment/get out of jail free card/coronation. Later, Elizabeth Warren endorsed/sold her soul to Hillary and tweeted Donald Trump for the gazillionth time in two weeks. Then, the exceedingly privileged Malia Obama graduated from the very expensive/exclusive/incubator for the 1%'s children Friends School.

Quite a week folks. What just happened and what it all means will be revealed in the fall 2016 Game of Thrones teaser.

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Bisbonian's picture

Hehe...good one.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

when she was asked if she'd be naming Warren as VP.

And we know of a few more emails that implicate H's guilt.

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in his meetings with Obama and Reid. Very bad. It made me sick.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Where have you been? T-Rump is a professional con man. Anything he says has a purely coincidental relationship to reality. He is full of outspoken contempt for others. He encourages his followers to brutalize anyone who speaks up against him, or who excites their prejudices. Racism and promises of personal dictatorship are part of his stock in trade (and the marks love it). So is fraud. He will partner with anyone to achieve his personal goals; at the moment, loves him some evangelicals. He is a crappy capitalist who has extracted millions from failing businesses for personal use while he ruined others, including customers and small business owners. In terms of public affairs experience, he makes W look like an intellectual. If T-Rump is "a bit of a loose cannon," then the Titanic hit "a bit of frozen water."

Yes, Hillary Clinton is the next iteration of the March of the Neocons. Her administration would be a continuing nightmare abroad and military-expenditure bloodletting at home. T-Rump's would likely be be a further personal nightmare for American people of color, women, the LGBTQ community, Muslims, dissidents, anyone struggling financially, and do not forget, the environment.

His foreign/military policy? Anyone's guess, but is it likely that all by himself, he will turn that container ship around? President Obama not even having manage to close Guantanamo? Or that T-Rump even would want to go up against the military-industrial-surveillance-security complex? It's not like the people of color who represent the majority of victims of Neocon policy are even human to T-Rump, whether at home or abroad. He will say whatever sells to someone. For actual performance, see his business history.

Hillary and T-Rump do agree on a few things though, including hatred of public information, free speech and whatever remains of truth-telling by the media.

Yup, looks like we may be f****d before one ballot is cast in the general. Yup, wouldn't it be satisfying to scream in their faces, "We're not fooled this time!" Because we aren't.

And how do you make Sophie's Choice, if it comes to that? Choose whether to be shot or hung?

Take your pick of sociopathies as best you can, if it comes to that. Throw the I Ching. Flip a coin if that's not practical. Keep hoping we can still get Bernie. Stay home from the polls if you really feel that the choice is meaningless.

But don't understate the walking disaster that is T-Rump.

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Euterpe2

Alphalop's picture

least not many here.

I think the best we can hope for is that Trump gets in there and then we are tied up with 4 more years of stagnation and gridlock.

Which to me sounds like a much better scenario than Clinton rushing in with her blueprint for Armageddon clutched in one greedy fist while the other is dragging a sack of MIC money....

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

I would expect more of that against Clinton, in fact, possibly 4 years of impeachment proceedings. Because Republicans hate her personally as well as politically.

Whereas Republicans are already rolling over for T-Rump.

Plus, their basic predelictions harmonize: racism, sexism, xenophobia, hatred of "the other" in general, the crack-down, lock-up mentality, detestation of regulations, scorn for the environment, greed for privatization. I can see T-Rump and a Tea Party dominated Congress agreeing easily on reams of legislation and appropriations that will rip-off the future from millions of us.

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Euterpe2

lunachickie's picture

like She is a warmonger. His wars will never happen. Hers will.

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elenacarlena's picture

That megalomaniac in possession of the nuclear codes?

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hecate's picture

cognitive problem. Someone who has said he will "bomb the shit out of ISIS," go into Iraq and "take all the oil," dispatch a minimum of 30,000 US troops to Iraq and Syria and Libya, sprinkle generals throughout the whole of his administration, swell the US military to the largest it's ever been, kill the families of people he deems "terrorists," blockade the South China Sea, gleefully torture people, assassinate Kim Jong-un, and execute Edward Snowden, he is, somehow, "not a warmonger."

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elenacarlena's picture

all the flip-floppers probably has also said that he will seek peace. He will be the Biggest Peacemaker Ever. He will give the world peace and make them like peace. Etc.

Not that I have heard him say these things, while I have heard some of the things you mention. But I have heard him flip flop.

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jimpost's picture

It is a question of someone who spits out whatever drivel is in his head at the moment to someone who has consistently voted for war and pressed for war and even gone against the express wishes of her boss and made war happen.

Words vs. actions. Which has the most weight?

Cognitive problem? I think not.

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The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.

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