Hello, deposition fans! Here is the third released Journal Watch (JW) deposition related to multiple FOIA-associated lawsuits. The batter in third place is (was) a power hitter in the Hillary line-up, Stephen Mull (SM). He was in charge of cybersecurity in the State Department (DOS) during most of the Queen's reign of terror at Foggy Bottom.

Make yourselves comfortable, but not too comfortable, because lots of muck needs to waded through. The first two depositions are abstracted here: Cheryl Mills and here: Lewis Lukens

Highlight of Mr Lukens's demo is that HRC did not have a password protected Blackberry. Highlight of Cheryl Mills's demo was the classic triad: "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil". Also Ms. Mills did not answer about 11 questions put to her.

To the end of this deposition are appended numerous documents, including the recent report of the Office of Inspector General as well as discussions of classifications. I do not comment on them, confining this essay to the deposition itself.

Cliff's Notes version of Mull's testimony: I didn't know what they were doing and I didn't tell them what they should have done about retention, return, and preservation of records.

Mr. Mull's background:

I'm a Foreign Service Officer since 1982. I have served a variety of overseas posts and domestic assignments. I currently serve as the U.S. government's lead coordinator for the implementation of the Iran nuclear deal.

During the relevant, i.e., Clinton time frame: Page 12)

Q: ...From about August 2008 to June 2009, you were the senior advisor to the Undersecretary of State for
Political Affairs?...
A: Yes, I was that for those dates. But I continued in that role until June of 2010....
Q: Okay. All right. And you were working the Undersecretary for Political Affairs, Bill Burns, at the time?
A: That's right, yes.

Page 13: while working for Clinton, SM never corresponded with HRC by email and did not know her email address at that time.

Q:...After that position you became the Executive Secretary?
A: Yes...In June of 2010.
Q: ...Prior to you becoming Executive Secretary, who was the Executive Secretary?
A: Daniel Smith.

Purpose of the Executive Secretary:

It serves as a link between the Secretary, the Deputy Secretaries of State, the undersecretaries of the State Department, with the rest of the building, in providing administrative, logistics, communications, and policy formulation support.

Who oversaw the Communications?

Q:...under the Executive Secretary, you had, was it four deputies reporting to you at that time?
A: Yes.
Q:...Did each of them have different responsibilities?
A: Yes.
Q:...Did one of those deputies have responsibility in overseeing...the Office of Correspondence and Records?
A: Yes.

Q:...Who was the director of the Office of Correspondence and Records during your time period?
A: Mr. Clarence Finney.
Q: Okay. How much interaction did you have with Mr. Finney during your two years as Executive Secretary?
A: Usually once, once a day.

More on bureaucracy:

We would have a daily staff meeting...in the Executive Secretariat, of all
of the deputies and office directors within the Executive Secretariat. Those meetings typically lasted for 15 minutes...
Q:...How many office directors would have been a part of that meeting, as well?
A: Usually four...one of the Deputy Executive Secretaries was dual-hatted as the Executive Director of the Executive Office of the Executive Secretariat. So he was both a deputy and an office director. The director of the operations center,
State Department operations center, the director of the Secretariat staff, the director of correspondence and records, and the director of...our information management section, S/ES-IRM, information resources management, John Bentel

Secretariat staff is also known as the line. It's an office of 20 to 30 personnel responsible for both advancing and managing the Secretary of State's overseas travel, as well as managing the paper flow of official memoranda and briefing material from the State Department to the Secretary and other principals of the State Department.

Page 24: Paper flow did not involve email.

During the course of my assignment we transitioned to an electronic system for entering those memoranda. But it wouldn't normally fit into the definition of e-mail.
Q:...What system was that that you transitioned -- transitioned into using?
A: The Everest system. It was an electronic channel for creating decision briefing memoranda, talking points for meetings, in terms of getting clearance within the State Department and submitting it up to the Secretary's office.

From Mount Everest to the Stars:

The Everest system is -- was and is searchable...But it was not the official record...of the department.Q Okay. Was there another system that would have had that official record-keeping archival system?...
A: Yeah. I mean, the correspondence and records unit would capture those documents in a system called, at the time, STARS...
Q:...If a FOIA request came in to the office, would the STARS system be searched?
A: I don't know.

Who was in charge of FOIA requests?

Q:...Office of Correspondence and Records. That's S/ES-CR...That office was in charge ofresponding to FOIA requests? FOIA requests for records within the Office of the Secretary.
A: Yes...
Q:...When you were Executive Secretary, were you trained or provided guidance about the Freedom of Information Act?
A: I don't recall formal training. I do recall getting briefed on the function as I assumed the responsibilities.
Q: Okay. And what specific responsibilities did you have when it came to Freedom of Information Act?
A:...I was ultimately responsible for everyone in the Executive Secretariat, including those who had line responsibility, for performing Freedom of Information Act activities.

The wild goose chase begins:

Q: Okay. If FOIA requests came in concerning e-mails or records of Mrs. Clinton while you were
Executive Secretary, do you know who would have been responsible for processing those FOIA requests?
A: All FOIA requests that were directed to
the Executive Secretariat by the Bureau of Administration would go to the working-level contacts within the Office of Correspondence and Records. They would then be responsible for contacting individual offices for whom the Executive Secretariat is responsible, to convey those requests.
Q: Okay. Do you know who those contacts would have been...for Mrs. Clinton,
for the Secretary?
A: I can't recall.
Q:...I'm wondering if you knew who the first point of contact was within the Executive Secretariat when a FOIA request came in for records related to Mrs. Clinton.
A: It would have been somebody in the Office of Correspondence and Records...
Q: Okay. Do you know who the point of contact it would have been within the Office of the Secretary?
A:...I don't remember.

Seems to me that the system at State was unbelievably sloppy, no one taking responsibility for FOIA requests--or a deliberate cover-up.

Q:...While you were there, if a FOIA request came in for records of Secretary Rice, would those records fall within the scope of the Executive Secretariat's responsibilities?
A:...I don't know the answer to that.

It's his job and he doesn't know?

FOIA training:

Q: Do you recall any seminars being held about FOIA obligations... for employees within the office of the Executive Secretariat?
A: No, I don't recall.

Q Okay. We're going to move on for now from
FOIA-related issues and talk a little bit about the S/ES-IRM department. Could you talk a little bit about what the purpose of that office is?
A: Responsible for providing information management support for State Department principals, principally through the POEMS electronic mail system.
Q: And what does POEMS stand for, if you recall?
A: Principal officers electronic mail system.

Q: I guess there is a IRM office within the office of the Executive Secretariat, and then there's an IRM office that falls under the office [of] Undersecretary for Management?
A: Yes. There's a Bureau for Information Resource Management that reports to Undersecretary Kennedy.

Diplomatic security:

A: There's a Bureau of Diplomatic Security.
Q:... And that falls underneath the Undersecretary for Management, as well?
A: Yes.

Now talking about an email chain involving Donald Reid of the Office of Diplomatic security:

Q:...Is it fair to say this appears to be an e-mail chain with -- between Donald Reid and Gentry Smith about electronic devices on the 7th floor?
A: Yes.

Q: Okay. In March of 2011, do you recall a briefing about electronic devices in the 7th floor?
A: Yes....I recall we set up a session for -- that allowed security people to brief our -- the executive secretaries -- Secretariat's information-management clientele on security of communications.

At last, an admission that upper level staffers knew about the secret nature of 7th floor electronic device [transmissions]--the so-called SCIFs described in the two previous depositions. But...

Q: Do you know if Mrs. Clinton was part of that briefing session?
A: I don't recall that she was there.
Q: Do you recall if Ms. Abedin was part of that briefing session?
A: I don't recall.
Q: Do you recall if Ms. Mills was part of that briefing session?
A: I don't recall.

The private email server?

A:...It's a difficult question to answer because...you're asking when did I become aware she was using a private e-mail address for official government business?
Q: Yes.
A:...I don't know that I've ever really become aware of that. I certainly am aware of the news articles and the allegations that have been made to that effect...
Q: Did you communicate via e-mail with Ms. Abedin while you were Executive Secretary?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you communicate via e-mail with Ms. Abedin while you were Executive Secretary?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know what e-mail addresses you used to conduct those communications?
A: I -- I can't recall. Typically I would type her name into the e-mail form, and -- I don't know what the exact e-mail address was.
Q: Did you know what Mrs. Clinton's e-mail address was while you were Executive Secretary?
A: No.

Who was H? Mull was given an email to read:

Q: After reviewing the entire e-mail, do you think that the H refers to Mrs. Clinton?
A: I -- I don't know. That's a reasonable assumption,

The non-State.gov email address in an email chain:

Q Okay. Based on the "to" line, it looks as though you received this e-mail. Correct? Or at least the e-mail was sent to you?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Also, this e-mail was sent to HDR22@Clintonemail.com. Do you see that?
A: Yes.
...
Q: When you receive e-mails, do you usually look at who else receives the e-mails along with you? Do you look at the -- the "from" line, the "to" line, the "cc" line when reviewing e-mails?
A: It depends on when -- when I receive it. The Executive Secretariat was a very fast-paced operation. I, of course, concentrated on the "from" line. Sometimes I would look at who was copied; sometimes not.

Legal opinions, such as from Harold Koh, DOS legal advisor:

Q: Would you read the e-mails? You said the Executive Secretariat was fast-paced, you may have received a lot of e-mails. And I just want to know, if you received an e-mail from the legal advisor, is that an e-mail that you would tend to read?
A:...I don't know what I didn't see. But certainly if I knew that I had received an e-mail from the legal advisor, I would make an effort to read it...
Q: Okay. And you don't recall seeing HDR22@Clintonemail.com on the e-mail when you received it?
A: I don't recall.

Information about HRC's BlackBerry:

Q:...Okay. When you first arrived as Executive...Executive
Secretary, did Daniel Smith or anyone else discuss with you Mrs. Clinton's use of a BlackBerry?
A: Yes.
Q: What were those discussions?
A: They focused on whether or not a BlackBerry could be used within the Office of the Secretary, in the physical space of the office of the Secretary.
Q: And at the time you started, was a BlackBerry able to be used within the physical space of the office of the Secretary?
A: The office of the Secretary, which was contiguous to mine, the electronic devices were not permitted to -- to be in there....
Q: Did you ever -- during your tenure, did you ever see Mrs. Clinton use a BlackBerry?
A: Physically, no...I don't have personal knowledge of where she might have used it...
Q: Okay. Did Mrs. Clinton have a State-Department-issued computer on her desk?
A: Not that I recall.
Q: Do you know if there was an office set up somewhere else for Mrs. Clinton to use her BlackBerry?
A: I have seen reports of that in the press. I don't recall that I knew that at the time.

Now, referring to an email which had appeared in the press regarding purportedly sent by Mull to Cheryl Mills (CM):

Q: Okay. Besides what, this document that you're referring to, do you recall any other communications with Ms. Mills about Mrs. Clinton's use of a BlackBerry?
A: I don't, no.

So the press released an email sent by Mull to CM about the infamous Blackberry. Well, that contradicts SM's testimony in her deposition. CM repeatedly asserted that she heard nothing about BlackBerry Use from State Dept. staffers.

Same goes for Huma Abedin:

Q: Okay. What about communications with Ms. Abedin about Mrs. Clinton's use of a BlackBerry?
A: Again, I remember the document that I saw in -- in the press, which that, among other subjects, was covered.

Q: Okay. To the extent you had any discussions with anyone else within the State Department about Mrs. Clinton's use of a BlackBerry, who were those discussions with?
A: I -- I can't recall such discussions. In general if the subject ever came up, I would most likely speak with the systems experts...The people who worked in the Office of S/ES-IRM...
Q:...Mr. Bentel?
A: Yes. Among others.
Q: Are you aware that Ms. Abedin used a non-State.gov e-mail account to conduct official government business?
A: I am aware of allegations to that effect in the press, but I'm -- I don't have personal knowledge.

Another email chain:

Q:...Do you know who Christopher Butzgy is?
A: I seem to recall he was a staffer in S/ES-IRM.
...I can't recall who his immediate boss was, but Mr. Bentel was the director of the office.
Q: Did you ever have any conversations with Mr. Butzgy about Mrs. Clinton's use of a BlackBerry or e-mail?
A: No, not that I recall.
Q: Do you recall having any conversations with Mr. Bentel about Mrs. Clinton -- difficulty Mrs. Clinton was having receiving e-mails?
A: I don't recall any such conversation.
Q:...If Mrs. Clinton...was having trouble with communications, would that be an issue that would raise -- would rise to your level?
A: Occasionally the Secretary's communications issues would come to me.
Q: Did any of those communication issues come to you during your tenure as Executive Secretary?...
A: Typically the challenges in providing secure telephone communications with the Secretary while she was away from the State Department.

Who else, other than counsel did Mr. Mull talk to on the communications issues, specifically in relation to an article about him and the emails which appeared in the Washington Post:

Q Excluding counsel, as well as any law enforcement that currently have active law-enforcement proceedings going on, did you speak to anyone about this e-mail?
A: Yes.
Q: Who did you speak with?
A: I spoke with the Inspector General's office of the State Department. I spoke with individuals in the Office of the Legal Advisor. And I suppose colleagues of mine may have mentioned to me, Hey, I saw your name in The Washington Post.
Q: So looking at the e-mail itself, the bottom e-mail, so the bottom e-mail of the chain, appears to be an e-mail from you to Ms. Mills. Is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Also on the e-mail is Ms. Abedin, Patrick Kennedy, and Monica Hanley. Is that correct?
A: Yes. Ms. Abedin was the deputy chief of staff of Secretary Clinton for operations.
Q: And Mr. Kennedy was the Undersecretary for Management. Is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. And do you know who Monica Hanley is?
A: Monica Hanley was at that time on the --an employee of the Office of the Secretary...She generally provided immediate support to Secretary Clinton on traveling, carrying her briefing books, providing, you know, immediate personal support to the Secretary.
Q: Okay. Looking at the e-mail, it starts off, "Cheryl, thanks again for alerting me to the communication issues the Secretary has been having." Those communication issues, was that what you were discussing, talked about before, about secure telephone calls?
A: I don't recall the circumstances that resulted in this e-mail. But I very often did speak with Cheryl Mills about secure communications difficulties.

A case of amnesia:

Q: Okay. Turning the page and looking at the second-to-last paragraph. It starts off, "Separately, we are working to provide the Secretary per her request a department-issued BlackBerry to replace her unit, which is malfunctioning."
Q: Do you recall having any conversations with anyone at the State Department prior to this e-mail about issuing Mrs. Clinton a BlackBerry?
A: I don't recall, no...
Q: Was there one person within that staff that was responsible for issuing BlackBerrys to the office of the Secretary?
A: They would make the request to the mobile solutions office.

Email addresses:

Q: Do you know who was responsible for issuing e-mail addresses to employees within the Office of the Secretary?
A: No...generally speaking, when you start in an office, you fill out a form that is acted upon in granting an e-mail address.
But I'm not sure who approves it or who comes up with the address.
Q: Okay. Do you know if the Secretary of State would be required to fill out that form?
A: I don't know.

More amnesia:

Q: Looking back at the e-mail, you continue, "Possibly because of her personal e-mail server is down." Do you see that?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you recall having any conversations with anybody within the State Department about Mrs. Clinton's personal e-mail server being down?
A: I don't recall conversations.

Finally, the TRUTH (page 74):

Q: At this point is it fair to say that you knew that Mrs. Clinton was using a personal e-mail server?
A: Yes, I suppose you could say that, uh-huh.
...
Q: We're going to continue with the e-mail. You next say, "We will prepare two versions for her to use, one with an operating State Department e-mail account."...
A: Yes.
Q: What do you mean by "prepare two versions"?
A: Well, again, I -- I can't recall the exact circumstances that led me to write this e-mail. Reading it now, I understand it to mean that there would be two version -- two different kinds of BlackBerry, one with e-mail support and one without ...
Q: Do you know if employees within the Office of the Secretary had two State-Department-issued BlackBerrys, one for access to an e-mail account, and another one to phone and Internet capability?
A: I -- I don't know...I typically was not involved in issuing BlackBerrys to employees...Again, I can't remember the circumstances that led me to write this e-mail today.

The heart of the issue:

Q: Okay. Looking further in the e-mail, it says, "one with an operating State Department e-mail account," and then in parentheses, "which would mask her identity, but which would also be subject to FOIA requests."... Why would she need her email address masked?
A: Well, I -- I don't know that she needed it masked...
Q: Okay. If Mrs. Clinton's name did not appear on the directory, how would employees communicate with her? How would employees know her e-mail address?
A: I -- I don't know.

More on FOIA requests:

Q: Prior to writing this e-mail, did you have any communications with anyone at the State Department about FOIA -- Mrs. Clinton's e-mail and FOIA requests?
A: Not that I recall, no.
Q: Did you have any -- did you have any conversations with anyone in which you or the other individual raised a concern that Mrs. Clinton's e-mail was currently not being subject to FOIA requests?
A: No

"No", but:

Q: Going back to the first page. The e-mail above the one we were just discussing is a response from Ms. Abedin to you. And it starts off, "Steve, let's discuss the State BlackBerry. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense." Do you see that?
A: Yes...
Q: Do you recall ever discussing with Ms. Abedin the e-mail and a State Department BlackBerry after the receipt of this e-mail?
A: No.
Q: Okay. The e-mail up from that appears to be a response from you to Ms. Abedin. Is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q:... It says, "Thanks for reminding all of this very helpful context," three exclamation marks maybe -- yes, and a smiley face.
A: Yes.
Q: Is that correct?
A: Yes.

More on Huma Abedin's (HA) involvement:

Q:...The e-mail above that appears to be a response from Ms. Abedin to you. Ms. Abedin states, "It's pretty silly and she knows it." Do you know what that was in reference to?...
A: Well, again, I -- I don't recall receiving this e-mail at the time. In looking at it now, I would understand it to be talking about the concerns about the equipment installed for while she was traveling.

Mull states that he has not further discussed this email chain, since learning about it in the media, with CM, HA, Patrick Kennedy, Monica Hanley.

Mull's conversations with the IG:

Q: Did you speak with the Inspector General about this e-mail within the past year?
A: I -- I don't recall. My meetings with the Inspector General, one was a telephone conversation last summer, and then there was a meeting in my office in September, before this was in the media. I don't recall that, that we discussed this.

About Brian Pagliano:

Q: Did you know who Mr. Pagliano was while you were Executive Secretary?
A: I don't recall that I did, no...
Q: Have you spoken to anyone besides counsel and any law enforcement where there's an active investigation going about Mr. Pagliano? Have you spoken to anyone else?
A: I seem to recall I have. Again, when his name appeared in the media, I vaguely remember people asking me if I knew who he was.

Any other DOS staffers aware of Clintonemail.com?

Q: Do you know if any other State -- do you know of any State Department officials or employees that used an e-mail account on Clintonemail.com to conduct official government business?
A: Well, your question is based on the assumption that I knew that someone was conducting government business, and I -- I don't have a basis to make such a judgment.

Relative to the "It was allowed" excuse:

Q: Do you know if Mrs. Clinton at any point was advised not -- or was advised to use a State.gov e-mail account to conduct official government business?
A: I'm not aware that she was.
Q: Do you know if Ms. Abedin was ever advised to use a State.gov e-mail account to conduct official government business?
A: No, I'm not aware of that.
Q: Okay. Do you know if anybody authorized Mrs. Clinton to use a non-State.gov e-mail account to conduct official government business?
A: I don't know.

About the OIG report:

Q: Okay. Have you -- this is the January 2016 OIG report entitled "Evaluation of the Department of State's FOIA processes for requests involving the Office of the Secretary." Have you seen this before?
A: Yes.
Q: When did you see this?
A: When it was released earlier this year...
Q: Thank you. Does this page [page 5 of OIG report] properly reflect what you recall to be the FOIA process for requests involving the Office of the Secretary while you were Executive Secretary?...
A: As--as far as I recall. I--I don't recall the very specific process, but this seems consistent with what I recall...
Q: Do you recall who the FOIA analyst was while you were Executive Secretary?
A: I don't, no.

Q: Okay. In that paragraph [pages 8-9 of OIG report] it reads, "S/ES rarely searched electronic e-mail accounts prior to 2011 and still does not consistently search these accounts even when relevant records are likely to be uncovered through such a search." Do you see that?
A: Yes...I typically as Executive Secretary was not personally involved in conducting searches...
Q: The last sentence says, "The FOIA analyst described the decision to search e-mail accounts to be discretionary, one that is only exercised periodically." Do you see that?
A: Yes...
Q: Do you know why the change was made in 2011 about how electronic e-mail accounts were to be searched subject to FOIA requests?...
A: I -- I don't know why, no.

OIG castigation of DOS FOIA procedures continues:

Q:...The first sentence [on page 11 of OIG report], "Although other department components, such as the Bureaus of Diplomatic Security and International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, have their own written FOIA guidance or standard operating procedures, S/ES does not." Do you see that sentence?
A: Yes...
Q: If there were such guidance, who would be responsible for writing such guidance?
A: Well, I -- again, I don't know. But I would speculate that the office responsible for that function, the office of -- then the Office of Correspondence and Records...
Q: I just had a quick question of, do you recall training occurring within the Office of the Executive Secretariat while you were Executive Secretary?...
A: I do not recall such training.

It appears that under the Clinton administration of DOS, no one gave any concern to FOIA requests; no one knew who was ultimately was responsible for handling such requests; no one received training in handling FOIA requests. Some way to operate "transparently"!

Starting from page 20 of OIG report:

Q:...This appears to be a letter from MaryKary Carlson to the Inspector General?...And MaryKary Carlson at the time was the Acting Executive Secretary?...Looking at Recommendation 2. It states, "The Executive Secretariat further agrees with the OIG recommendation that S/ES employees should be reminded that federal records contained in personal e-mails may be subject to FOIA and should be preserved in the department's record-keeping systems. All department employees received this guidance and instruction from the Undersecretary for Management October 17, 2014."...There is also, farther down in that paragraph it states, "All employees are required to copy or forward any personal message containing a federal record to their official department e-mail accounts for appropriate retention and archiving." While you were Executive Secretary, do you know if any such guidance or -- any such guidance was provided to that effect to employees within the office of the Secretary?...
A: I don't recall any.

Un-named co-conspirator, Justin Cooper:

Q:...If we could turn to Page 2, Footnote 7. The report states, "An individual based in New York who provided technical support for Secretary Clinton's personal e-mail system but who was never employed by the department." Do you know who that individual is?...
A: No, I don't.

Home server knowledge:

Q: On Page 3, Footnote 14 [of OIG report]. It talks about -- it states, "A March 17, 2009, memorandum prepared by S/ES-IRM staff regarding communications equipment in
the Secretary's New York residence identified a server located in the basement." Do you see that?
A: Yes. Uh-huh.
Q: When you became Executive Secretary, were you shown this memorandum?
A: No, not that I recall.

Retrieval and preservation of emails:

Q:...Do you know what the SMART system is?
A: I know it is a information processing system within the department, but I'm not completely familiar with the details.
Q: Okay. The report states, "In 2009 IRM introduced SMART throughout the department, enabling employees to preserve a record copy of e-mails through their department e-mail accounts without having to print and file them." Is IRM -- do you know if IRM in that instance was the general IRM for the State Department or the specific S/ES-IRM?...
A: I don't know. But I'm assuming from the context that this would be the department's overall IRM.

Not such a smart move:

Q:...The next sentence is, "However, the Office of the Secretary elected not to use SMART to preserve e-mails." My question is, were you -- did you have any conversations with anyone within the Office of the Secretary about electing to not use SMART to preserve e-mails?...
A: I don't recall any such conversations with the Office of the Secretary.

More about migrating "private" (personal) and "official" emails:

Q:...In that paragraph [page 11 of OIG report], it states there is an August 2004 memorandum from the Executive Secretary that reminded departing officials not to remove any document -- documentary materials, whether personal or official, and whether in written or electronic form, until such materials have been reviewed by records and security officers. My question is, have you seen that August 2004 memorandum? A: I -- sitting here today, I don't recall that memorandum.
Q: Okay. Farther down in the paragraph it says the department reiterated this guidance in April, June, and October of 2008...
A: I don't recall.

Q: Okay. Farther down in the paragraph it states, "S/ES conducts annual workshops with the...agency records officer on records management for departing senior officials and their staffs. Such workshops were held in February 2007, September 2008, June 2009, April 2010, October 2011, October 2012, and October 2013." Did you attend...either of the workshops in October 2011 or October 2012?...
A: No.
Q: Do you know if Mrs. Clinton attended either of those workshops?
A:...I don't know. Though I would be surprised. This is normally targeted at clerical staff.
Q: Did you update the 2004 Executive Secretary memorandum identified in this paragraph while you were Executive Secretary?
A: I don't recall doing so, no.

Spam. Spam! Are you kidding?

Q:...In this paragraph [page 38 of OIG report] it says that, "The Deputy Chief of Staff e-mailed the Secretary that we should talk about putting you on a State e-mail or releasing your e-mail address to the department so" you -- "so you are not going to spam." First, the Deputy Chief of Staff, was that Ms. Abedin?...
A: I believe the Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations, that was Ms. Abedin's title at the time, yes...
Q: Did you ever talk to Ms. Abedin in November 2010 about releasing Mrs. Clinton's e-mail address to the department?
A: No, not that I recall.
Q:..The next sentence states that Mrs. -- the Secretary wrote, "Let's get separate address or device, but I don't want any risk of the personal being accessible." Did you see this -- have you seen this e-mail from Mrs. Clinton?
A:...I don't -- have no recollection of seeing any such e-mail at the time.
Q: Do you know if Mrs. Clinton ever received a separate address or device while you were Executive Secretary?
A: No. Not that I'm aware of.

Interdepartmental knowledge of HRC's email account:

Q: It states [page 38 of OIG report], "In another e-mail exchange, the director of S/ES-IRM noted that an e mail account and address had already been set up for the Secretary and also stated that you should be aware that any e-mail would go through the department's infrastructure and subject to FOIA searches."
A: I don't -- I don't recall that e-mail.

More about DOS knowledge of state.gov email account readied for HRC"

[referring to page 39, footnote 158 of OIG report] "On December 21st, 2010, S/ES-IRM staff sent senior S/ES staffers an e-mail describing the issue and summarizing the activities undertaken to resolve it." Do you recall seeing this December 21st, 2010, e-mail?
A No, I don't.

Who had this discussion with information resource management (IRM)?

Q: Okay. In the sentence above that it states, "At that time S/ES-IRM staff met with the senior advisor." Do you know who the senior advisor is?
A: No.

The "never talk about this again" rule:

Q Great. In this paragraph [page 40 OIG report] it states that "The director stated that the Secretary's personal system had been reviewed and approved by department legal staff and that the matter was not to be discussed any further." Did you ever speak to the director of S/ES-IRM about Mrs. Clinton's personal system having
been reviewed and approved by department legal staff?
A: Not that I recall, no...
Q: Do you know if Mrs. Clinton's personal system had been reviewed and approved by department legal staff?
A: I don't know...
Q: Did you have any discussions with anyone within the State Department about not discussing Mrs. Clinton's personal system?
A: I'm not aware. I don't recall any such conversation.
Q:...The director of S/ES-IRM was Mr. Bentel?
A: Yes. At that time.

Who else was told not to speak of personal email?

Q: Of individuals that onboarded into those senior-level positions that the Executive Secretariat assists with, did any senior-level individuals onboard while you were Executive Secretary, and were they -- were they provided guidance about the preservation and retention responsibilities? [Referring to a 2016 statement by Mull's successor, Mr. McManus, about document retention etc. of departing DOS staffers]
A: I'm not aware. I was not Executive Secretary at the time...
Q:...The same question for Ms. Abedin: Did you take any actions to ensure that Ms. Abedin understood her records preservation and retention responsibilities?
A: Not that I recall, no.

Now, some obfuscating by Mull:

Q:...Would that have fallen within the purview of the -- of the Executive Secretary?have fallen within the purview of the -- of the ExecutiveSecretary?
A: Within the purview of the Executive Secretary to brief Ms. Abedin and Secretary Clinton on their records preservation?
Q: To ensure -- to ensure that they were briefed and they -- they did understand their responsibilities and requirements.
A: I would consider that to be a responsibility of the Executive Secretariat in orienting new employees, as well as prior to their departure

He evades the Question about HRC and HA--or does he?

A: I had not worked as Executive Secretary either during their onboarding or immediately prior to their departure. So I -- I couldn't speak to it.
Q: If it fell within the purview of the Executive Secretariat, why didn't you make sure, ensure that Mrs. Clinton and Ms. Abedin understood their records management requirements?
A: Because I would anticipate, when orienting a new government official, that is a responsibility that -- conversation that would take place at the beginning, as well as at the end of the tenure of such an official. Or if there were ever occasion to suspect that such procedures were not being followed correctly...
Q: Did -- I guess the followup is, did you not think you needed to -- need to provide guidance to Mrs. Clinton and Ms. Abedin about their document-retention responsibilities?
A: I had no reason to believe that they had not been provided that information when they assumed office and was not there immediately prior to their departure. I had no reason to suspect they were unaware.

In other words, it wasn't me, I wasn't there.

Q: Is it fair to say that this [exhibit 9 of OIG report] is a--this is a document that was provided as transition background materials in 1996 to the Office of the Secretary?
A: Yeah, I don't know to whom it would have been provided.

But the 1996 instruction about preservation and retention of documents, Number 96-009 S/S-EX - Administrative Procedure,
Subject Records Management:

A: It appears to address records management processes for all department principals.
Q: Okay. And that would include --
A: And that would include the Secretary, yes.

Okay, so there are rules in place after all, but who informed the Queen about the rules?

Q: Do you know who would know about what information was provided to Mrs. Clinton regarding requirements for records retention when she became Secretary -- when she took office?...
A: I couldn't speculate.

Mull's use of personal email while at DOS:

Q: Okay. Did you use a personal e-mail account to conduct official government business when you were Executive Secretary?
A: Not -- not that I recall. Well, occasionally. For example, if I were writing my work requirements on a department form, sometimes to make it easier to do it at home, I would have forwarded that. So occasionally I -- I might have, yes. But principally I conducted government business through my government account.

Q: Did you have an e-mail account on Clintonemail.com?
A: No.

Mull did not review depositions of Lukens or Mills.

Q: When you e-mailed Ms. Mills in late August 2011, did you have an understanding of how Mrs. Clinton was using her BlackBerry for e-mail?...During that time frame when that e-mail was sent, did you have an understanding of how Mrs. Clinton was using her BlackBerry for e-mail?
A: No.

Talking to the Queen:

A: I typically avoided instructing Secretaries of State to do anything. But if I had become aware, if I were aware that any Secretary of State while I was serving as Executive Secretary were not aware of responsibilities, I -- I would have taken steps within my power to inform them of that.
Q: If you had known that Ms. Abedin was using a non-State.gov e-mail account to conduct official government business, would you have instructed her not to?
A: It's -- it's an analogous -- an analogous answer.

Well, I did speak to her but saw no evil:

Q: How frequently did you engage with Mrs. Clinton?
A: When she was in Washington, usually every business day. And when I was at work.

QUESTIONS WITNESS WAS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER:
Page 26:

Q: Could you talk a little bit about STARS, please?

Page 38:

Q After Mr. Lew left office, how would his records -- if a FOIA request came in for those records, how would they have been processed?

Page 84:

Q Have you spoken to the Inspector General since this was in the media?