C99 Falling for the Neocon Propaganda?
Submitted by Big Al on Tue, 08/01/2017 - 11:17pm
I'm surprised and disappointed so many here are recommending this essay that promotes outright propaganda from an insidious right wing conservative, neocon and Zionist media outlet called the Weekly Standard.
https://caucus99percent.com/content/stopped-clock-trump-may-be-about-do-...
I'm not sure why so many are falling for this propaganda, but this reminds me of Daily Kos in my final days, which ironically also involved the war in Syria.
If that's what the people on this site want to believe, count me out.
Comments
One of the links in gj's article didn't load--
perhaps the one from the Weekly Standard"
This observation by Bomber McCain simply means he isn't satisfied by the potential to "liberate" oppressed poppies and minerals from their wicked Afghan overlords. If that one link which didn't load was the Weekly Standard, then the point of your essay is lost on me. This doesn't mean I disagree; I simply don't know enough.
I'm not seeing the link
You say is there.
What I read is that Trump seems to be considering lowering presence somewhere in the ME. Yay! I say.
If I had my way. We'd not only withdraw completely from the ME, we'd offer reparations and get to work within our own borders.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a far more effective strategy against opioid abuse: get the CIA out of poppy land.
There is indeed a link to the Standard
and it is clearly attempting to portray Trump in a good light. But the quote in the referenced essay is all there really is. I think that it is clear that gjohnsit was not endorsing the Standard's agenda, only referring to a decision that Trump made that he considered good, regardless of (or in spite of) its author, and indeed the decision to stop the CIA's funding of al Qaeda (according to a PBS Frontline documentary al Qaeda changed its name so that the CIA could fund them without congress objecting - ie. so that the CIA could lie to an ignorant congress) was effectively good as would be an immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Theere have been a lot of comments to gjohnsit's essay since I read it. I hope that things have already been cleared up.
On to Biden since 1973
Agree with your take on this.
However I also agree with Bernie Sanders assessment that Mr. Trump is a pathological liar so.... Standard or not, like with Mr. Obama have to see what he does... Who the hell really knows?
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
After the last election,
you tell me what is real and what is not. As the title says, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Weekly Standard, Counterpunch, they're all the same to me. Counterpunch is in the process of attacking Caitlin Johnstone because she dared to suggest that the right and left find common ground and go after the crooks in the middle. Seriously Al, they're all the same. Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see. I really don't think gjohnsit bought or represented the DS story as the gospel, just a hint of hope in a right direction.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Seriously, you think Counterpunch is the same as the Weekly
Standard? Do you know what the Weekly Standard is, it's the neocon flagship. Everything in that article linked is pure neocon propaganda and no one on here challenged it. And you're comparing it to Counterpunch?
I give up.
All of us here are critical thinking adults
And like the stopped clock, we can sometimes find valid bits of information from sources that in other places would be considered off limits. I do not believe that dkmich was equating Counterpunch with the same weight as the Weekly Standard. And she is right that recently Counterpunch posted a number of articles smearing Caitlyn Johnstone. So on any give day, perhaps Counterpunch is indeed allowing itself to fall into a category on the par with Weekly Standard.
(edited for clarity)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@gulfgal98 Johnstone is being
Johnstone is being shredded because she has a suggestion for a novel way to fight Deep State. The same ultimate goal as CounterPunch. I didn't appreciate those articles at all, now read CP with a grain of salt.
I do not care who, what, how, or why regarding ending a war. I just care that it ends.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Exactly
The major point about Trump cutting off aid to Syrian rebels isn't even up for debate. It's a proven fact. I didn't need the Weekly Standard to know that.
The only reason I quoted WS was because it gave a believable reason for Trump's decision.
If Al wants to reject that reason, that is his choice. I won't hold that against him, but it would certainly help the discussion if he gave an alternative reason.
To just say that I can't use sources, even when the major points aren't up for debate, smacks a bit too much of Daily Kos.
Either I am inarticulate or you are too literal.
The common thread connecting the two is viewing things through their own lens. They both do it. I have never read an article in CounterPunch saying anything good about a Trump administration let alone Trump. I agree you need a million dollar microscope to find it, but nothing is always anything. As gulfgal just said and gjohnsit says in almost every article, everything must be taken with a grain of salt and evaluated for ourself. The Clintons, Obamas, Bushes and Trumps have destroyed the governments credibility. The fourth estate committed suicide. We are living in one big reality TV show, and we have nothing to say about who or what gets voted off the island.
In addition to all of that, you pointed out for the record what a rag the weekly standard is. You are a part of c99 so you did point it out for c99. We're a team.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Big Al, respectfully--provide the damn Weekly Standard
"evidence" about which I am not the only one requesting to see.
The Weekly Standard and CounterPunch are not comparable
in the least. The Weekly Standard is the propaganda mouthpiece of the neocons.
You get more balanced views on CounterPunch.
In Defense of Caitlin Johnstone
In Defense of Caitlin Johnstone (Part Two)
The degree to which Trump's foreign policy directives
are being determined by neocon/deep state forces, and the degree to which he might be willing or able to move in opposition to them, is a matter of some interest, no? Deciphering msm's agitprop often involves sifting through a lot of disinformation to get at some kernal of useful information it might contain.
native
Ya, this is for the record.
Is this the battle you want to fight?
Because I've seen you spread some really thin konspiracy theories.
If you have a problem with a point in my essay, you are more than welcome to say it. But if your point is "I don't like your link eventhough the facts are beyond dispute", well, every man has a right to choose the hill he wants to die on.
Again, to both gj and Big Al
let's have some fucking topography before we pick "the hill we want to die on." I am not pleased with the cursory mentions of agitprop or neocon bullshit about which you both argue. If you don't want many of us to know what the hell you are talking about, go have your solipsistic disagreements in a quiet corner away from the rest of us.
OK. I may have used an inflammatory term
I didn't intend to pick a fight.
It was more of a statement that Al was trying to pick a fight that he wasn't in a strong position to win.
That's all.
This is the hill I'm dying on, man.
And I can see how they'd be "conspiracy" theories to you.
I see the pundits have a new obfuscating term
Calling people like Caitlyn Johnstone "neo-progressives". Apparently they see progressive discourse as a screen to right wing agendas? Setting up the battle field of ideas in a manner which benefits the DNC.
This essay is disturbing.
Publishing essays that call out fellow site members was something I hated about Daily Kos. I hate to see it come here.
I have no idea what c99 wants you to believe
What I took away from that article was that despite a bunch of establishment framing, we may actually be looking at dialing down our killing spree. I saw that as a good thing.
I just glossed over all the establishment framing. Sure, the entire piece was a ridiculous fiction involving a made-up war with made-up goals and made-up strategies. But the bottom line (if Trump manages it) is still worthwhile.
I don't know what C99 wants you to believe but I already know you believe what I want you to believe. Namely... pretty much all war is utter bullshit.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
I think
C99% wants us to think and assumes we can. I doubt that anyone here confuses the Weekly Standard with the Socialist Worker. That means you read the article with "Shields up." as Captain Kirk would say.
The right has its own issues with Deep State. They investigate. Sometimes they find things worth knowing. Even when they don't, knowing what they're thinking is of some value. Just proceed with caution.
Remember, many of them liked Trump's call for a less imperialist America during the campaign. It's a place Bernie feared to tread. That creates a potential bond of some magnitude.
One of the critical flaws in his campaign it was
Secondly, we should take our allies when the situation is conducive to accomplishing OUR goals, regardless of whether they are anyone else's goals: