A word about voting in November--okay, many words

Some of the things I have read startle me, so I thought I would lay this out.

For openers, full disclosure: I have never voted Republican. However, I am not sure I could ever vote for Hillary, either. My posts criticize Hillary much more than Trump only because I assume that I don't have to point out to liberals the deficiencies of the Republican Party or Trump. On the other hand, I've have seen Democrats blame Republicans for whatever upsets them. While I am not pro-Republican, I don't think believing or pretending that Republicans are the only ones who have "done us wrong" and therefore voting Democratic will fix everything is healthy. I know just how self-defeating that is because that's exactly what I used to believe. It's like taking the wrong medicine. Whatever ails you is unlikely to get better.

Perhaps the most glaring example of this was a poster on another board who blamed Reagan for pro-corporate changes to the Bankruptcy Act of 1934 (part of the New Deal). In reality, the changes she described were part of the Bankruptcy Code of 1978, enacted and signed when Carter was President and Democrats had a majority in both houses of Congress.

I will vote Stein, but my vote will not affect the election. Of course, we elect Presidents by the electoral college, not by popular vote, which is essentially voting for President by state. My state has never been a swing state--at least not in modern times. Even though my vote will not matter, I will vote for Stein anyway. I feel that the best use I can possibly make of my Presidential vote in 2016 is to have my vote "say" that I want someone well to the left of Hillary Clinton. (A vote for Johnson will not do that.) Also, I believe that any votes for Stein beyond the tiny percentage that she received in 2012 will be recognized as being a direct result of Sanders' run. (A vote for Johnson will not.) Finally, I want to help the Green Party to get enough of the popular vote to maybe have an easier time getting ballot access, TV coverage, etc. next time around. (A vote for Johnson will not.)

In all likelihood, you can vote for Stein without worrying if she will make a good President because, sadly, she is highly unlikely to win. If she does win, I am confident that she will do far less damage than the other three. So, either way, no worries.

Writing in Sanders is, IMO, will not be useful. It will not accomplish any of the things I am hoping to accomplish. Write-in votes do not get reported anywhere or show up in any statistics, so your vote will not even "say" a thing, assuming any vote does. Moreover, in some states, writing in can invalidate your down ballot choices. If you are contemplating this, please check the law of your state before you vote.

Inasmuch as we do elect by state, take a look at the polls for your state as Election Day nears.

1. If your state is strong for Hillary, your vote for someone else will not help elect Trump, no matter what anyone says. It just won't increase the landslide number of votes by which Hillary wins your state.

2. If polls for your state are really close come late October/early November, which I think is highly unlikely, and it's also looking as though Hillary may have a hard time making 270 electoral votes, which I also think is even more unlikely, then and only then do you need to worry about how you will vote for President in 2016. President Hillary would, for me, be the worst case scenario. (This post adverts to that, but is not a full examination of the point: http://caucus99percent.com/comment/166958#comment-166958 )

If I were in a position where my vote might actually matter, I might be able to bring myself to vote for Trump. However, I am very grateful not to be in that position and doubt any of us will be. In the highly unlikely event you find yourself in that position, I humbly beg you to do a lot of research, seeking out especially views of liberals that are contrary to your own, whatever your own view might be at that time. And then, you must vote your conscience. The stakes are too high to do anything else.

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riverlover's picture

If either Stein or Johnson could pull off a win, either would still be left with a D/R entrenched Congress. And nothing that the Executive Office could be passed, other than vetoes, so still gridlock. Like for the past 8 or 16 years. Except undeclared wars.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Even without congress on her side, Stein, as president, could effect a lot of much needed change:

She could, all by her lonesome, reschedule cannabis--thereby helping to put the brakes on the War on Drugs, reducing prison populations and arrests, creating new jobs by allowing states to make that an industry, and allowing taxation of it.

She could, all by her lonesome, veto the TPP, TTIP, and whatever that 3rd trade deal is called--ensuring that corporations don't take total control of our democracy. This would put the brakes on shipping much needed jobs overseas.

She could nominate liberal, non-corporate Supreme Court justices.

She could, single handedly, withdraw troops from hot spots like Afghanistan, and stop unfunded wars. She could not consider escallation in Syria, Iran, Russia.

There's a lot of things she could do, even without congressional support, which have major consequences. Everyone should remember that.

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riverlover's picture

Not my fear, but may be a general uniformed public fear.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

tapu dali's picture

Vetoes would be overturned.
Nominations would be rejected.
And her other initiatives would be rejected by SCOTUS as "unconstitutional".

Then where would we be?

Impeachment? Both parties would be on board with that.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

We may see impeachment if $$hill or Dumpf are elected as well.

Dumpf is such a jerkoff that he may just resign if he wins, because hard work ain't his thing.

VP choices may matter more in this election than in any other in my lifetime.

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of November, they can take it from there.

Sadly, I think the likelihood that Hillary will not get 270 electoral votes is non-existent. So, I would not worry about her election causing gridlock. Late polls will tell the story for sure, though.

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elenacarlena's picture

no business bombing, I could live with that.

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Sandino's picture

Identity politics trumps all. How convenient.

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hecate's picture

White identity politics. Trumps all. And has. Every time. For more than five hundred years.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

You're painting with a brush that's the size of the broad side of a barn. And you're sounding too much like the Social Justice Warrior crowd at That Other Place. Are you sure that's company you want to put yourself in?

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

hecate's picture

that I do not want, to place myself, in the company, of those, who employ the term "social justice warriors," as a pejorative. Because, those people, and without exception, are wingers. Kneecrawlers. Earthworms. Retroverts. Droolers. Pre—even—lemur.

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the meme has spread out into the general population -- at least, among young people. plenty of non-RWNJ folks think there's something more than a little bizarre about, for example, an entire society being expected to self-censor both casual and formal discourse for fear of "triggering" someone's PTSD.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

TheOtherMaven's picture

any reason to pay any attention to anything you say, ever again.

I know you love to stir the shit, but you've gone past stirring into wallowing.

Not gonna join you.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

mimi's picture

if you can't join her, then don't. Apparently accusations of being shit-stirrers in fashionable these days, especially to those who state some facts in rather artistic more image related language, like hecate does.

Don't push on the self-destructive buttons. This site deserves better. JtC would like this thread to end. I know it's hard, but it really would serve this community better, we would "let it go". Let people "wallow" in their own sensibilities all they need or want, silently, without judging. I know we all fail in that sometimes, but we need to try to be aware of our own reactions.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Unfortunately you just made a few more words necessary. Blum 3

There's "rather artistic more image related language", and there's wallowing in shit. If you haven't been to some of the deep shit-wallows, you don't know what you're criticizing. I have. I do.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

mimi's picture

Pardon
Sad
Cray 2
Pleasantry
Biggrin
Dirol

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I can be offended by what Baraka said. You don't have to be, but your argument is stupid.

"Identity politics" matter a great deal to me, especially as a bisexual woman. The amount of people willing to discard them completely on this website literally scares the shit out of me.

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I miss Colorado.

hecate's picture

to such nonsense. It's from white-men world. Where white-man identity politics, it has been uber alles, and for more than 500 years. Now: there is the Screaming, and the Bedwetting. When somebody. Other. Than a straight snoring whitebread man. Just. Raises. His. Or her. Hand.

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link to that article. I've read the article 4x now. I have utilized all my brainpower to analyze it. Over and over again.

Still don't get it.

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I miss Colorado.

hecate's picture

[T]he critiques of identity politics from left and right both overlook the most powerful and consistent identity politics of all: white identity politics . . . .

People tend not to see it as identity-based. That's because white identity politics has been so historically successful. Advocating for white people—and particularly for white men—is seen as normal, natural, and unremarkable . . . .

The truth is, white identity politics in the United States isn’t just one of many identity politics. It is the identity politics: the one which has been most effective as a political force, and has created the groundwork for, and the necessity of, other identity-based politics . . . .

If people on the left or the right want to critique identity politics, they might start with this: the one identity politics that consistently traffics in hate, divisiveness, and violence. The one identity politics that insists there's only one valid identity, and that those who speak from other positions, or from other perspectives, are illegitimate, and must be silenced.

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and then I gotta go on a playdate with my friend! We are going to dinner and maybe to a movie.

[T]he critiques of identity politics from left and right both overlook the most powerful and consistent identity politics of all: white identity politics . . . .

White identity politics. Alright. I think that's weird, because I'm trying to be inclusive of non-white people and non-straight people and non-able people and stuff. To me, that's NON-white identity politics. Donald Trump may be for white identity politics, but that's not really my cup of tea. And I'd also like to think that's part of why I consider myself progressive.

People tend not to see it as identity-based. That's because white identity politics has been so historically successful. Advocating for white people—and particularly for white men—is seen as normal, natural, and unremarkable . . . .

/blinking profusely. Right, but see, I just told you I'm not advocating for white men. White men do not need any goddamned advocating.

The truth is, white identity politics in the United States isn’t just one of many identity politics. It is the identity politics: the one which has been most effective as a political force, and has created the groundwork for, and the necessity of, other identity-based politics . . . .

I just read that 5x to myself, out loud, again blinking profusely. The only thing I got is that, if you're not a recipient of all the gains we've made as a society in terms of feminism and gay marriage and inclusiveness with races and religions, then maybe you just don't see the importance of any of it. Because this isn't just a thing to me, hecate, this is my life.

If people on the left or the right want to critique identity politics, they might start with this: the one identity politics that consistently traffics in hate, divisiveness, and violence.

THIS particularly trips me up. The sentence is simply incomplete, unless the author is saying "the one identity politics " like Gandalf says "the one ring". Are you saying that identity politics traffic in hate, divisiveness, and violence? If so, I'm going to submit that the reverse is true instead.

The one identity politics that insists there's only one valid identity, and that those who speak from other positions, or from other perspectives, are illegitimate, and must be silenced.

What. What's the valid identity?! I musta missed that one.

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I miss Colorado.

hecate's picture

is saying, accurately, that, for 500 years, all of the politics, was about what was Best, and Good, for white men.

And then, 500 years on, as soon as some of the politics, it stretched to encompass people not white, or not male, or not straight, the white men, they proceeded to scream, till their lips bled, about "identity politics."

When, for 500 years, the true, and one, and only, "identity politics," had been, all about, them. Their identity. As a white male.

And so, today, when one encounters people, screaming till their lips bleed, about "identity politics," these screamers are, in the main, white men. Rending their garments. That the politics. It now sometimes addresses. Somebody other. Than them.

They just. Can't. Deal. With the Fact. That their little white pee-pees. No longer, always, and in every way. Rule. The uber alles.

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...

Well, that would be why I didn't get the article at all then. Smile Thanks for the explanation.

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I miss Colorado.

"Uber alles" means "above everything else". "The uber alles" means "the above everything else"? In addition to your challenging mental state, you are grammatically-challenged as well.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

against endless war
against Wall St predation
against an economy that drives people into poverty

I'm not "advocating for white people." I'm trying to stop the powerful doing harm. As far as I know, the powerful don't limit their harm to white people. I've yet to see evidence that POC are less hurt by global warming, less hurt by the factory of endless war, less hurt by Wall St predation, less hurt by a brutal economy--or, for that matter, less hurt by cuts to Medicare, SNAP, and proposed cuts to Social Security--than white people.

I would like a habitable planet, a government that isn't the brutal arm of the most predatory impulses of the wealthy, some basic rights, and an economy that doesn't produce more broken lives than anything else. Equal rights under the law would also be nice, since we currently have a three-tiered legal system, and the results are predictably atrocious.

That pretty much covers what I fight for.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Identity politics is a powerful tool to divide people with similar or identical economic interests. It's going to take a coalition of those of us on the left with poor whites on the right to defeat the TPP.

Identity politics was Hillary's trump card limiting Bernie's ability to unite blacks and working class whites. The inability to strengthen that coalition further is going to hurt blacks and working class whites. But it's going to hurt blacks more. It helps Hillary and the "pillars of the civil rights movement" who are more interested in using oppression to elevate their own status than in beating back attempts to oppress.

Identity politics seems deliberately to put issues in terms that will make it most difficult for people getting the short end of the stick to work together. I am white. I am not oppressed because of my race. I am educated. The knowledge I acquired is a defense against all sorts of oppression. But the fact that I am not oppressed according to some dimension does not make me an oppressor. Am I expected to plead guilty to every crime I've never experienced? If that's the price of working together, don't hold your breath.

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elenacarlena's picture

I agree with Shiz that it's confusing. I fight for the poor, mostly. I fight for the underdog. That means I fight for the poor, the disenfranchised, women, children, elderly, blacks, Hispanics, and more. Even working class white dudes who have been given the shaft. Many of those groups include me, some don't, but so what? I fight against the greedy wealthy so that we can all have a better America and a better world. If today one of my black brothers is killed by a racist cop and I join downtown in a protest march to mourn his passing, that's not "identity politics". It's just that today was a terrible day for the black community and I give them my solidarity. Seems to me, everybody should be a lot more concerned about what the 1% and their jackbooted thugs are doing to people than which "identity" they're doing it to today.

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I agree with you entirely. Whether or not I am victim of a particular kind of oppression is irrelevant to my obligation to join with the oppressed in their resistance and I hope, to the extent that they are able, they will do the same for me and others.

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CambridgePulsar1919's picture

The message that's been spread by the legions of fanatical, unreasonable Clintonistas is that 'we don't want your fucking help, you privileged oppressor'.

The take-away from these people is that I should just sit there and be quiet until they need something from me, like money or votes, otherwise I look just like the enemy, and should thank Dog that they don't round me up and shoot me.

The amount of damage the Clinton fanatics have done to those fighting oppression from the left is immeasurable, imo.
When you attack life-long civil rights advocates as sexist and racist "bros" in order to deflate the ranks of your political opponent, there will be backlash.

Don't want my help because I'm white?

Wish granted.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

It needs a whole diary.

But in short--
Yeah, *of course* you have the right to be offended!

The question isn't whether you have the right to be offended; it's whether we're going to abandon the Green party ticket because of the perceived offense. I only say 'perceived" because I'm gonna go listen to the audio myself, being the really suspicious bitch that I am. This could all be on the up-and-up but given the stakes here, I'm not gonna trust the word of a Reddit guy I've never heard of before, especially since I'm living in a world in which accusations of racism, sexism, anti-Semitism and homophobia have become co-opted by the wealthy and powerful as the most effective form of character assassination on anyone coming from left of center.

I just watched people calling Bernie fucking Sanders, of all people, racist, elitist, white privileged, etc. for about 8 months, while holding Hillary Clinton up as the poster child and standard-bearer for anti-racism. Bernie Sanders, who was the only white politician to show up when the CBC held hearings on the voter suppression in Ohio. Bernie Sanders, who called out his own colleagues on the floor of the House on homophobic language; Bernie Sanders who got chained to a Black woman in his 20s and dragged across the ground b/c he was protesting housing segregation, Bernie Sanders who has been reliable in the fight against racism, sexism, and homophobia for 50 years--but he was successfully framed as racist. While Hillary "Superpredator" Clinton, Hillary "I should stay in the primary race against Barack Obama because Bobby Kennedy got shot in CA in June" Clinton, Hillary "Hard-working people, white people, won't vote for Barack Obama" Clinton, gets basically appointed to lead the fight against racism, while Black leadership kisses her ass from sea to shining sea.

I don't have a lot of trust right now. Now, if you tell me that *you've* listened to that audio, I'll happily forego the nasty experience of listening to it. But so far, the only thing I know for sure is that Baraka was willing to give an interview to that piece of shit.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

hecate's picture

you don't write the diary. How about, on this blazingly, blindingly, white site, people of color—or, on this subject, and god forbid, Hebrews—they write, such diaries.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Looks to me like there's plenty of space.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

hecate's picture

to read here any more white people, whining about people of color, or Hebrews. It's embarrassing.

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I miss Colorado.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

unless you're talking about my comments re: Netanyahu and Lloyd Blankfein.

But even if I were, all you'd have to do is ignore me, really.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

hecate's picture

and watch white people, peeing all over my screen.

If there is a legitimate argument, here, to be made, in waving the flag, wide and high, for Dr. Frankenstein 2.0, and all who sail with her, on this particular topic, a site Hebrew, assuming we have, here, more than one, will, assuredly, make it.

You, meanwhile. Can busy yourself. With other. Things.

Or. Not. ; )

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and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm going for a walk.

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hecate's picture

the faintest idea. What you're talking about.

But. Lord Thor. Walk on. ; )

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gALPWW9QByQ]

I'm, just here. To shout: "theater!" In a crowded. Fire.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

One of my favorite albums.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

they end up peeing themselves. It happens. Better to take a walk and change your pants, before it starts to smell badly.

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elenacarlena's picture

by Thaumlord?

And I don't think we're all that white.

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CambridgePulsar1919's picture

Don't.

I'm sure there must be plenty of sites that will embrace your particular bigotry.

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mimi's picture

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TheOtherMaven's picture

It's the old "lie down with dogs, get up with fleas" thing. If you (generic you) don't want holocaust-denier cooties all over you, don't volunteer to be interviewed on a holocaust denier's show.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

tapu dali's picture

BTW, what really drives me up the wall is the word "Hebrew".

I remember in England the phraseology, "A gentleman of the Hebrew persuasion is at the door to see you, m'Lord. -- Thank you, James, give him a shilling and see him out."

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

hope I didn't misunderstand them. Don't think I did.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

"You're white, therefore your argument is invalid (... and you should STFU)."

Congratulations, you just kneecapped your own agenda.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

The question isn't whether you have the right to be offended; it's whether we're going to abandon the Green party ticket because of the perceived offense. I only say 'perceived" because I'm gonna go listen to the audio myself, being the really suspicious bitch that I am. This could all be on the up-and-up but given the stakes here, I'm not gonna trust the word of a Reddit guy I've never heard of before, especially since I'm living in a world in which accusations of racism, sexism, anti-Semitism and homophobia have become co-opted by the wealthy and powerful as the most effective form of character assassination on anyone coming from left of center.

The lack of communication by me today has been simply stunning. Stunning.

I originally read the transcript of that buttmunch's radio show on another website, which I cannot find now, goddamnit son of a bitch. The Reddit link is an exact duplicate of the transcript I saw earlier (I read it about a week ago), one that mattered and one that I cannot find now, goddamnit son of a bitch!

I know I know I know about Bernie. I know I know I know! But you know I don't roll that way, and you know I never said those things, and you know you know you know!

So that's how I know it's Real and For True, but please have a listen if you can find it.

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I miss Colorado.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

It was intended as explanation for why I double-check things now, and it kind of got away into rant territory because I intensely dislike this particular part of this Brave New World.

Just as I know you're no Denise Oliver Velez, you know I'm not a whiny white racist protecting her privilege. FFS, for years I was one of a relatively tiny minority of white people working on the racist election fraud that happened in FL and OH. I don't talk about this stuff much because I don't want it to sound like I think I deserve admiration for it--I don't. But neither do I deserve to be attacked as something I'm not. And neither do you, and I haven't forgotten who you are: you're a friend and an ally. I respect your fights. I think you respect mine.

If you've read the transcript from a source you trust, that's all I need to hear.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Sandino's picture

to let this bit of painstaking and expensive anti-green opposition research go to waste. I bow before your claim of privileged sensitivity as a bisexual woman. I can't imagine the horrible oppression you must face every waking moment. You win. we're voting Hillary!

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DO YOU KNOW ME BUT AT ALL?!

I'm guessing no since I'm not voting for Hillary Clinton.

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I miss Colorado.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

elenacarlena's picture

We can express our concerns without looking for someone "pure". This just shows that no one is pure, but we have to act as best we can anyway.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

none of them, as far as I know, belongs to a posse.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Johnson.

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I loathe Libertarians, so a vote for Johnson-Weld from me will not be forthcoming.

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I miss Colorado.

It said Stein or writing in Bernie or leaving it blank. It said nothing about Johnson. I remembered correctly that there was more to it than voting Stein, but messed up on what your alternatives were. I knew I should have checked your post first. My bad.

But, the main points were that you were that you were still considering voting for Stein and still not voting for Hillary. Still, that is no excuse for mischaracterizing the alternatives. Again, sorry!

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I didn't think you had any ill intent. I just dislike Libertarians immensely and didn't want anyone thinking that I liked 'em at all, lol.

I've thought quite a bit about the Baraka issue I had. I think I'm still gonna vote for Stein, as originally planned when Bernie dropped out.

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I miss Colorado.

more as voting for the future than I see it as voting for Stein Baraka.

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I don't think her administration will have much to do with anti-semites.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

and I was never suggesting that her administration would be filled with anti-Semites.

This one thing just bothers me. Just this one.

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I miss Colorado.

If come late October, early November, polls indicate:

1. Hillary will have trouble getting to 270 electoral votes;

and

2. Your state is close.

I see the likelihood of both those conditions existing as tiny.

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mimi's picture

racist, anti-semite, enabler of supremacist rulers, is remarkable.

At least one should quote or embed those words that have been judged as anti-semitic, so that people can make up their own mind about what they mean in context.

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OK, I'm gonna go for a walk. Or maybe to another thread.

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I miss Colorado.

mimi's picture

It's not a subject I like to "research" voluntarily. I try not to follow up on that any further. Hope you can ignore me or what I said and can come back here.

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If we can get the Green Party to 5% then ballot access becomes much easier.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Find a Republican you trust--a friend, a relative--and make the agreement that "If you vote for Johnson instead of Trump, I'll vote for Stein instead of Hillary."

The important thing here is that we withdraw our support from the duopoly.
Getting Stein over 5% would also be nice.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHgkD6Gle_g]

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

an opportunity to undermine the duopoly itself. We can't prevent one or the other (Clinton or Trump) from being elected, but we can refuse to support either of them, and by doing so lay the groundwork for a serious challenge to their power, in the future.

Foundational cracks have appeared in both major parties, and votes for either Stein or Johnson are like wedges that serve to widen them. The more third party votes we can muster, the wider these cracks will grow. R and D establishments have both lost touch with their respective bases, and have instead drawn closer to one another - possibly leaving a very substantial pool of voters looking elsewhere for representation, or at least seriously considering it.

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native

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

wanted to make a pact with me about voting for Nader. I refused. I wish I had a do over.

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Lookout's picture

I'm ready for oligarchy_0.jpg

I'm voting for Jill, but no matter what we end up with the oligarchy.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

It's only fair. We owe them. They will have to pay off the debts the US has been accumulating--assuming the environment doesn't get them first.

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that will bring out Stein supporters. California will be voting to legalize marijuana and Colorado will be voting for single payer health care. Election day may give Jill a surprise.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

because she is that confident she has won them. Of course, people could change their minds. However, I think Johnson is also pro-marijuana. I'd be stunned if Hillary loses California.

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elenacarlena's picture

I would think they'd be pissed off. Hillary is anti-marijuana, among many establishment positions. California has 71 Green office holders, far more than any other state (New York has 10), http://www.gp.org/officeholders

I'd be pleasantly surprised if Jill won California, or any state, but I wouldn't be stunned. I would think California would be one of the most likely for Jill to win.

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Reality. Not everyone believes Hillary and her friends screwed with the primary. (Bernie Sanders and Jane Sanders both said there was no screwing with votes.) It doesn't even have much to do with Hillary. Most of America thinks she's a liar and untrustworthy and she's running away with the polls anyway.

I'd be stunned if any state went for Stein, much less the state with the most electoral votes. Most Democratic and Republican voters vote for whichever Democratic or Republican candidate they perceive to be the lesser evil or party loyalty. IOW, they vote for who they wish to defeat. And most Americans really seem to want to defeat Trump. Did Sanders run change all that? No. First, it was a primary run (and even then, I bet many Democrats voted for the candidate they imagined to be most likely to defeat Trump. Not for Sanders, who the polls said was most likely, either, but against the most liberal primary candidate. Democrats have been brainwashed since 1972 that liberals cannot win general elections.

Reality. Election fraud. If there's any state where election fraud would occur, it's California.

Reality. The left is not united. The biggest chunk of people who are not rightists are loyal members of the Democratic Party and will vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter what. A large chunk of those went for Bernie in the primary. However, that was a Democratic primary and Bernie has since endorsed Hillary.

History. No state's electoral vote has gone for a newer party's candidate since 1968, when George Wallace got 5 Southern states running on a segregation platform soon after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Before that, it was Strom Thurmond's 1948 run as a Dixiecrat against Truman because FDR had signed and EO integrating federal employment and Truman had signed an EO integrating the military. I think we all know that was a profound schism in the Democratic Party then, ultimately resulting (IMO) in turning most Southern states from solidly Democratic (or segregationist) to solidly Republican.

Perot, with all his $$$, never got one state's electoral votes, although he did get 5% of the popular vote.

The Green Party has received less than 1% of the popular vote (and zero electoral votes) in every Presidential election in which a Green was at the top of the ticket, except for 2000 (Nader, of course) when it got less than 3% and was blamed for Bush (all 8 years) and Iraq (Though Hillary advocated for it and she and other Democrats voted for it). In the last three Presidentials, the Green Party did not get even half a percent of the popular vote--.1% (Cobb), .12% (McKinney) and .36%(Stein).

I'll be thrilled to bits if Stein gets 15% or more of the popular vote, which would put her on the debate stage. Failing that, I would love to see her get 5% or more of the popular vote, which would give the Greens an easier time all around next time--raising money, ballot access, federal matching funds, name recognition, etc.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

1)I don't know why she bothers advertising anywhere, since she's already demonstrated she can rig the whole thing, and
2)Colorado? Um...not so sure about that, Veruca. If you let them vote as they will, you might get a shock.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

because she's sure she's going to win. I heard that on MSNBC. However, I googled for a link for this reply and others say so as well. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/ca/california_tru...

But, when I googled for a link for this post, I also saw that some sources within Colorado say otherwise. http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/11/hillary-clinton-not-pulling-out-of-...

What can I say? You can't trust anything you hear or read because Hillary.

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I'll pick the doctor.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

And I liked it!

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Every single Presidential election, since I've been 18, I've voted demonrat all the way down the ballot. This is the first time I'm filling in the green bubble. Even if it doesn't count, it counts with myself. Woo hoo.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

access, raising funds, federal matching funds, etc. next time. So, I hope your vote will matter that way.

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Lenzabi's picture

Vote Green this year so we can shake loose the grip of the Plutarchs over the throat of Democracy! Otherwise voting the "safe" route only wastes your non-existent vote power by handing it one of the corporate selected stooges.

This is not America, has not been for years, we are in the Corporate States of Oligarchia where the Billionaires and corporates control us all.

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So long, and thanks for all the fish

elenacarlena's picture

No reason to go down without a fight.

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Lenzabi's picture

Yep, I plan on scaring the Plutarchs this year voting Stein all the way now that they silenced Bernie. Plan B is in effect.

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So long, and thanks for all the fish

I wouldn't vote for Hillary if she was running against Osama bin Laden. She will do more damage to this country than he did. Not hyperbole. She will kill more Americans and impoverish hundreds of millions. Perhaps provoking nuclear war.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

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