Why I oppose having a military confrontation with Russia
I'd like to make my feelings perfectly clear on this whole Russia v. Ukraine thing.
I've seen online how people say that we must show our "strength" by standing up to Russia. That this is Munich all over again (because obviously every enemy is Hitler).
When I've tried to push back on this I've been called a Putin apologist, a Russian bot, and a Tankie.
So I'm going to simplify my argument in a way that everyone can understand.
I don't want to die.
I think that it's a bad idea to risk Global Nuclear Armageddon to defend the borders of a nation that a majority of Americans couldn't find on a map.
Oh sure. "It won't come to that," you say. Because no wars in history have ever escalated in ways that the war hawks didn't anticipate. Oh wait. Actually the opposite is true.
Now to be fair, I understand the reasoning behind the arguments of the people who think it's important to "show strength".
My response to them, with all due respect, is that I don't think that we should risk destroying all life on this Earth in order to compensate for your undersized penis.
Look, I get that penis size is important, but not every guy is as insecure about their penis as you are.
To summarize, people that feel that it's important to "project strength" should find another method.
Maybe the U.S. doesn't have to be the world's policeman. Maybe we don't have to stick our noses into everyone's business, and tell everyone how they should behave. Especially when we have so many problems here at home. Has anyone considered that?
Let's not forget George Carlin's Bigger Dick Foreign Policy
Comments
"Has anyone considered that?" - For sure .../nt
Dunno about this board,
but on the "progressive" group social platform board I helped create, I was just accused of being "antidemocratic" for strongly disagreeing with the Biden position. Then I was told maybe I should just go off somewhere and discuss it with myself. A progressive board. Some democracy.
When I asked what the US should now do, and should we go to war over Ukraine, the response is crickets. Not too surprising though. It's always easy to be a keyboard warrior, talk tough, advocate for tougher sanctions, without having to state a clear position on how far you would take it.
Here is the latest polling on Ukraine from a US perspective. Thankfully few are interested in getting too mixed up over there: Just 26% say the U.S. should have a major role in the conflict, according to a new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. Fifty-two percent say a minor role; 20% say none at all.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-vladimir-putin-europe...
I wrote this up for reddit
I doubt that anyone here on C99P will disagree with what I wrote here. But I could be wrong.
I'm sounding out my arguments against intervention.
[edit] where/what is this '"progressive" group social platform board' you speak of?
Iirc, maybe only one
poster on this board might be in favor of US involvement in Ukraine, pro-Biden position or stronger. No one I've seen at c99 has called out any of the Ukraine dissenters for being unpatriotic, undemocratic, unAmerican, PutinPuppet, etc.
Apparently I innocently created an MSNBC bot monster over at the other place. No one diverges from the Rachel/Lawrence pov. Stating contrary facts that go against the grain is a futile exercise, like trying to reason with a cult. And being the only dissenter, I am treated as a Putin apologist.
You should hang your head in shame
Are you saying that you aren't willing to risk everyone in the world dying in order to score virtue signaling points for your team?
For shame!
Are you Bob B perchance?
If so I commend you for trying to bring some reasoning to the place. I’ve been reading the site and hoping that someone would hit back on the cheering for war with Russia. Bob is the only one I’ve seen.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
No, not the
Bob guy. I regularly post only here and at that one major social media site, where I use my real name and get all sorts of grief for my unwelcome heretical positions.
Fellow agent Wok!
Hey fellow agent Wok! Hope you and yours are doing as well as can be in these trying times.
I just stopped by to see what folks here are saying about Ukraine.
Regarding that poll, whether folks want to see the US involved or not, the US has been intervening in a major way pushing Putin's back against the wall for a long time now. Will we go to war there aside from sending the Ukrainians weapons and other implements of war? Hell no. But we've been doing the supplying in a big way. And doing all sorts of nudging. We'll use the Ukrainians as cannon fodder if push comes to shoveback while the Russians are using folks in rebel held territories of those two oblasts, scooping them off the streets and volunteering them in the rebel armed forces.
Meanwhile, I see the Movement for a Peoples Party has gone off the rails. So it goes.
What has the Movement
done now? I haven't been keeping up with them.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
There's a Jordan Chariton video discussing the MPP
Hope you are well enuff.
Here's a [video:https://youtu.be/cyfqO9086ok]
Nick Brana seems to be very quiet about it all. Jimmy Dore, too.
I am well, hope you are, too.
I will listen to the video shortly.
I received lots of emails giving me assurances they were putting a platform together, just needed contributions. The calls for donations got too bothersome, so I blocked them.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
your uncertainties are puzzling Wally
to what certainty do you hold that the US's only interest is in supplying weapons in this conflict?
I see a vested interest in pulling a curtain over the US involvement in the previous coup, plus
the dirty hand in those affairs by the sitting presnit and his son. To say nothing of Obombers
role in instigating this mess ..
political capital is at stake as well
the cover-ups stink worse than the original sins
Hey Wally, good
to see you back and look forward to seeing your perspectives.
I'm heartened by the poll I cited above, and hope some of the hawkish-sounding Ds in Congress, 98% of them apparently, take note. The anti-Russia rhetoric was way out of control prior to the latest Putin move, and sanctions can get out of hand to the point they come back to bite folks at home, which they won't be happy about going into a midterm year.
As Obama said in his 2015 Atlantic interview with a hawkish interviewer, Ukraine is in Russia's interests, not ours, and they will always have the military upper hand there, so what's the point of US military involvement. He was smart not to agree to sending lethal arms to Ukraine, although it's not clear to me what he was doing during the 2014 period.
Lost another post just like the old daze
I just don't have the temperment to keep pounding on the keyboard these days. Just lost a response I wrote back to you so adieu.
I hope this guy in this interview with Aaron Mate has it right in claiming Putin isn't interested in the rest of Ukraine and that he's just engaging in some brinkmanship to establish a new European security structure with less US domination:
[video:https://youtu.be/TqVCMZdnb3k]
hmm....
A good german would say: "Du mich auch". In case you need an explanation, I will send it via pm.
Apparently
it means "I'm happy about that too!" ; )
Your German seems to be lacking /nt
I wonder how you got there gjohnsit?
This is way beyond your argument about nuclear armegeddon
the US has no right to meddle in other countries affairs.
if Russia has an issue with a border state, let them deal with it.
This has nothing to do with the US, except insofar as NATO is a
lapdog of the MIC. It is about selling armaments and furthering
hegemony.
Same as the gas pipeline to Germany. WTF does the US have to do
with it? It is not our territory to call the shots.
Again, it is not about showing strength FCS. Try to realize that whatever
Russia or China or Venezuela does is not any of our business.
If the US has an agenda, it should be about the health and wellbeing
of our citizens. How does that square with your idea of peace?
I got called all of those names in...
get this, the subreddit r/antiwar.
Granted, most of the people in r/antiwar are actually people that oppose war. Buuut, there are plenty of dissenters.
[update] so far this post has an 81% upvote rate in r/antiwar. I'm gonna try crossposting it to other political subs just to see.
You Putin apologist, Russian bot, and Tankie you
Isn’t that just ridiculous? That being against war and the possible destruction of all life on earth means that you must accept being called names just because you are? I can guess who is calling you those names too and I just don’t have a way to understand that. I actually believe the same as you. Its sad how the anti war movement decides on which party is in control of government. It seems that war is bad for democrats only when republicans are doing it and vice versa. Me? I’m against war period because it hurts the people where wars are fought and those who do the fighting, and lots of others get stinking rich from it.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
You know we are through the looking glass when
a policy position like "I don't want everyone to die" is considered controversial, possibly even treasonous.
wait a sec
the only reason your 'we are all going to die' conundrum holds water
is because the US is sticking their guns in places they do not belong
people will do as they're told, think as they're told
yesterday the rightwing was all "Biden is weak and isn't standing up to Russia". Today, after Trump called Putin's plan "genius" they're scrambling to get in line. If the Dems said they were going to back down then the kos dems would follow. They'd stop their warmongering and suddenly be "the peace party".
back to the righties....if Trump now reverses himself, which he might, they'll get whiplash.
Kos wrote a diary on it
and I couldn’t believe how misinformed he was. Or ignorant about what’s happening inside Russia. It’s almost like he was just making crap up and seeing what sticks to the wall that people will believe. Lots of crap did indeed hit the wall. Or why we’re in this mess to begin with. Seems no one there remembers Obama/Biden’s coup on Ukraine, but boy they sure like to repeat what the Washington post tells them. And they are even using David Fromm and Steve Schmidt as sources. Vindman, Fiona Hill the 2 darlings from Trumps impeachment are great sources too.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
I'm in complete
agreement: I'm a lifelong isolationist at heart. The moment a real antiwar candidate somehow makes it through the abattoir of our political system to get into a position that it might be possible to vote for them, I will do so.
It is amazing to me how trivial it is for the propagandists to use all the various dick-swinging sports metaphors (with which we're all so disgusted) to sell war in this country. The only thing that will ever start us thinking about peace (as a nation) will be to reinstate the draft. Perhaps then the young folks who will get dragged into the role of cannon fodder might have reason to pay attention... Otherwise, it will all be We Must Be Strong, it is Someone Else's Problem, They Volunteered Anyway, and How About Them Red Sox...
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
war and violence is always wrong
The bluenomatterwhos have been drunk on Russiagate for four years, found out they might have been on a mis-guided bender, and think this is the road to redemption. They became the party of war without even noticing, and now are blindly cheering it on. All just because the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq connected to Al Qaeda people said so. I am amazed at the lack of interest in knowing what really has been going down there. Maybe they and the Biden's are afraid of some Burisma paperwork Putin might turn up?
I don't want to go to war for the same reason I don't want to get in any fights. It is stupid.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein