"Why do you want the Rich to become more Rich?
Quick hit.
Went to a fairly large T-day gathering yesterday, met a dude who was the grandpa of some kids there. I had decided prior to going to the dinner that I would not get involved in any political discussions because, well you know.
A couple brews later he was talking about taxes and how the city of Portland (OR) property taxes were eating him up and he was going to sell his house.
Out it came from my mouth like an uncontrollable burp, "Trump and the republican's tax plan will make it worse".
Big Al, come on man.
Come to find out my new friend is an ardent Trump supporter who reads Breitbart, Infowars and shit like that.
"No, not at all, Trump's tax plan is going to help the middle and lower classes most".
Oh god. What did I do?
I proceeded, doubling down, "no, not from what I've read. It's a tax plan for the rich, by the rich, and what crumbs they throw our way will be far exceeded by the billions and trillions handed out to the rich".
He came back, it was on. "Not from what I've read". And this, "Trump has done more for this country in less than a year than Obama did in his eight full years". That's when I learned he read right wing conservative blogs and internet sites, hated Obama and liberals, and that he really was a true blue Trump supporter, right there on the couch across from me.
I caught myself, "I guess it depends on what you read. Well, we'll have to disagree on that, we'll all see what they come up with soon. It's probably best we not discuss this", as I got up from the other couch, turned my back and walked right out of the room.
Three things I got from that.
One, I need to do a little more study on this tax plan they've working on and memorize key bullet points for my arguments (or lesson plans). I wasn't able to recite them quickly enough which contributed to my ending the convo like I did (not that continuing it was a wise idea).
Two, many Trump supporters are like Obama supporters, they simply are not going to budge an inch no matter what the facts are.
And three, this is a tribal thing. The office of the presidency, like the duopoly itself, is the great divider in this country. Loyalty to the authoritarians is unequivocal for too many people lemmings. There ain't no turning that.
Maybe next year I'll rent a couple nights at a lodge somewhere and sit it out. Order a nice turkey dinner from room service.
Abolish the Presidency!
Comments
Isn't it amazing how we get sucked in to the Media frame?
Note to self: When this topic comes up and people mention what they read, segue into a discussion about media manipulation and how I trust the person I'm talking to more than the MSM.
It may not work, but it's the next tactic I'm going to try if this kind of thing comes up again.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
An amazing thing.
I've run into this a few times now with this tax plan. Those supporting Trump and who read and watch right wing, conservative blogs, sites, information, etc., believe that it is good for the country and particularly those in the middle and working class. They believe it, firmly.
Then there's the facts that have come out in many analyses on how the plan is in reality an enormous wealth transfer to the upper class on the backs of the middle and lower classes.
Two completely different perspectives on the same data.
sucked
That's because the MSM sucks!
(sorry -- couldn't resist that one!)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I had a pleasant conversation with a seriously right-winger
We were on a plane and got to discussing politics. One of my earlier gambits was the proposal that I would trust a random draw from the people on the plane over pretty much any politician in DC. She heartily agreed. From there, we went on to find other points of agreement.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
The intentional creation of information islands
is what's killing us. Even if someone from another island is sitting next to you, there might as well be an ocean in between. We so need a way to circumvent the brain washers so that we can all live together on the continent of truth.
Beware the bullshit factories.
We're all Dems if not
Libs. Of the eleven adults at the T-day fest (three of whom my siblings) most of us are Dems, none Trumpers. Was a very nice New England traditional dinner!
Lots of "fuck Trump!" And the first in a few years now where I didn't have to rush off to the annual -ahem- "Black Friday" Event on Thanksgiving evening. yay! Thank you S.S.!
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Feel you, BA. One of my best friends voted for Obama,
then Romney, opposed Trump nomination but now posts all this Trump BS on his FB page.
For me the biggest problem is the trillion increase in the deficit to pay for this, then the cuts to medicare and ss.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Heh.
Some good points to remember next time our friends start talking supportive about the Tax plan.
Fiscal considerations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-republican-tax-plans-five-wo...
Congressional Budget Office has the facts:
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
My family avoided talking politics thankfully
they all have bought the Russian propaganda big time and of course were huge Hillary supporters.
I've seen people say that they will get a tax cut, but what they don't realize is they will go away while the tax cuts for the rich and corporations are permanent.
But most people will get a huge raise in their taxes because of the elimination of so many deductions.
This is all out war from the upper class.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
I never talk politics with right wingers.
When they bring up politics in family situation, work place meeting/party, etc. all they want to do is provoke. Even with liberals when they say "fuck Trump"--they invariably bring up Russia. Counter them and they look like Bill Mahrer letting loose a massive log on the subject.
I could write entire posts on stuff like this.
It's amazing how some people choose to play on the 50 yeard line of the astroturf football field while the team owners laugh their asses off.
Others think horseshoe politics is a real thing...you know, the far-left and far-right supposedly work together to destroy political discourse. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Let's be honest here, what we're dealing with here is fish hook politics. The left is forced by the right-wing and centrist allies to be pulled ever rightward for the sake of drowning the working class too keep the yachts afloat.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.