What's the Message, Mr. Gardiner?

An open thread dedicated to discussing books, movies, and tv shows we love. And occasionally some politics.

image_10.jpg

OK, so today What's the Message, Mr. Gardiner is going to depart from its customary fun with all my favorite books, TV shows, and movies. I've been wanting for some time to put together some thoughts about what Garrett Hardin calls "conversation stoppers." Garrett Hardin, by the way,

Garrett_Hardin.jpg

was an ecologist whose work I have barely skimmed, other than a book called Filters Against Folly that my boyfriend read last year:

images (2)_0.jpg

Unfortunately, Hardin is best known for his phrase "tragedy of the commons:" basically his idea that if anything is held in common, as socialism advocates, one or more bastards will ruin everything by taking more than they need and end up ecologically wrecking the commons. He seems to think that this abusive behavior happens less under a capitalistic system. (I don't share that view; assholes are everywhere, and it's obvious by now that Crony Capitalism, with its lifetime companions Graft and Corrupt Governance, are the primary drivers of ecological destruction; even the population explosion that was Hardin's primary concern could have been dealt with better had the governments of the world not been bought and paid for by a wealthy class indifferent to everything but its own bottom line). It's sad and predictable that this is the one thing that everybody appears to know about Dr. Hardin, because of course any indictment of socialism is going to be circulated widely in the United States, while other ideas he had, such as the notion of "conversation stoppers," languish in comparative obscurity.

Conversation stoppers are sentences spoken, not to further the exchange of ideas, but to escape discourse. That much Dr. Hardin asserted. Now there is much in his discussion of this topic I don't like much, because he seems to have some kind of gripe against language and those who love it, and especially against those who are experts in it, such as linguists and literary types (that would include me). But since I have no corresponding bias against the numerate and the scientific communities, and since my training in literacy included the idea that I shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I can perceive that Hardin has his finger on a particular truth. He is identifying something ugly and dangerous. One could make the analogy (he doesn't) that using a conversation-stopper is like shooting the conversation in the head so that alternative points of view can no longer be expressed. This is a fact highly pertinent to our modern age, in which conversation-stoppers aren't merely used to stop one individual conversation, or one or more individual speakers, but to carpet-bomb discourse, leaving behind scorched earth in the form of conversational space so toxic that it can no longer be entered.

The reason I use these violent metaphors for conversation stoppers is that there is a war going on around us, and the battleground is human perception. (The response of various establishment forces to both Wikileaks and whistleblowers--and even to people who are neither, like Aaron Swartz, whose crime was apparently that he was both extraordinarily digitally skilled and also critical of the way certain forces in our society attempt to monopolize data--demonstrates that the battle over perception is literally one of life and death). The colonization of the human imagination is underway, and all we have to describe this battle are overly general words like "trolling" and "propaganda." Well, and the word "lies," of course, a word that I think is underused these days. We're all pretty good at noticing trolling, propaganda and lies and calling out those who deploy them in specific instances, but we spend little time looking at the big picture.

That's because it's hard to do. It's hard to see the big picture while you are, perceptually speaking, being shelled in what amounts to a 24/7 cultural blitzkrieg. And the language we use to describe these events is lacking in more ways than just vagueness and lack of specificity. The word "troll," for instance, is a word from children's stories. It encourages not taking the matter seriously, and, indeed, often the response to trolls is mockery. People of good will often think that mocking trolls is both the best response and a sufficient response.

The word "sockpuppet" is even worse. The Einstein doll in the middle of this video is a sockpuppet:

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rjbtsX7twc]

Sockpuppet is really inadequate as a metaphor for what is basically a bot that can multiply a troll's power over any online space they enter twentyfold : a type of software which we've known for five years is used by the U.S. military to shape political narratives to their liking: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-soci...

It's not my intent to shake my tiny fist here at words I don't like, or tell people not to use them (hell, I've used them myself, in this essay!) but rather to draw attention to the fact that the battle here is really, really serious, and the words and images we have to describe it are really, really lacking. That in itself is a symptom of the battle, and one of its ultimate goals.

I'm not going to abandon the original idea of What's the Message, Mr. Gardiner, because I'm seriously dedicated to having fun, even in these times. Especially in these times. But I've decided that I'm going to use this space from time to time to try to build up a big picture by putting together many small pieces: little events and interactions that might build up, eventually, into a reasonably accurate picture of one of the real battles, often-felt but rarely described from a birds-eye view, in which we find ourselves.

Here's one example from Twitter. I start the exchange when I said that the status quo was corrupt, and that, much as I dislike Trump, the existence of a corrupt status quo wasn't his fault. My handle on Twitter is LiberalinMD (now inaccurate on two counts, but more on that later). I've excised the handle of the guy I was arguing with, as well as those of others in the thread, so I'll call him @CleverHillTroll:

@LiberalinMD Dec 1
And as much as I dislike Trump, that status quo was not built by him & it's not his fault
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes

@CleverHillTroll
He was on the corrupt bribing end that built the status quo. It's more his fault than anyone else.
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like

Notice how all the guilt of all the corrupt rich people who built the status quo is placed on Trump's head, thus obviating the guilt of the upper class and those who have been buying our government. You don't need to worry about them; as long as you hate Trump, that will take care of it. Remarkably consistent with the actual ancient practice of scapegoating.

@LiberalinMD Dec 1
OK, so one shady real estate magnate vs all of freaking Wall St? The oil barons? Wal-Mart?
3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

@CleverHillTroll Dec 1
There may be some bad people there, but what do you do? Shoot them? Confiscate? Hatred solves nothing @LiberalinMD
2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

There's a weird assertion here of a reality in which you can't make a moral criticism of someone--can't blame them--unless you're prepared to take action against them. Further, there's an assumption that clearly nothing could be done within the law (unless "Confiscate" means the government would nationalize the banks). Note that the idea that criminal behavior and graft could be punished with, you know, jail time, is placed on the same level as me saying I'm going to take my summer vacation on Mars next year wearing nothing but a bathing suit. Then at the end, we have a fairly standard implication that my position is a violent and a hateful one.

At this point, it might not have been a troll, but merely an annoying person, though if you look carefully, you can see how the conversation is being moved into a series of straw men followed up with a fairly classic "you're a thug" character assassination.

Somebody else cheerfully jumped into the conversation at this point to advocate for shooting Trump supporters. I've excised that comment.

This is where it starts to get really ugly. Watch how the troll renders the idea of Wall St corruption nonexistent without mentioning them once more in the thread. At the same time, he does a sort of version of gaslighting, in that he implies that I, and anybody who shares my concerns, is at best childish, and at worst a little crazy.

@CleverHillTroll Dec 1
There would still be more boogiemen. We've got to get past boogiemen & victimization

"Boogieman" is the buzz word, and it effectively infantilizes me and makes me seem a little crazy (if you're an adult that still believes in the boogieman, there's clearly something wrong with you). It also makes corrupt Wall St bankers into a figment of a childish cultural imagination.

‏@LiberalinMD Dec 5
Boogiemen my ass. Trump's a boogeyman; Wall St and the MIC are not.
1 reply 1 retweet 1 like

OK, that wasn't a very elegant response. I was irritated.

@CleverHillTroll Dec 1
Uninformed people on both sides have decided corruption's everywhere, thus a lunatic is the answer @LiberalinMD
2 replies 1 retweet 3 likes

There's the heart of it. @CleverHillTroll has now revealed his destination:
1)Corruption is a figment of the cultural imagination
2)Only uninformed people believe in it
3)The actions of those uninformed people (against corruption that does not exist) put Donald Trump in the White House
4)Donald Trump is a lunatic
5) Thus, people who fight corruption are responsible for putting a lunatic in charge of America.

The logical conclusion here is that fighting corruption, complaining about it, or even identifying it, is a dangerous political activity; a threat to the country, even, done by uninformed, childish people who cherish delusions of victimization.

Well, it could be worse. He could have used images of vermin or disease.

I wasn't done, though:

@LiberalinMD Dec 1
We were denied the non-lunatic answer through fraud.

(And here's where I have to admit that I really owe something to Bernie Sanders, because, without his campaign, where would I be in this conversation? How could I prove that there was a way to criticize a corrupt establishment without supporting a racist lunatic? It's terrifying how easy it is to manipulate discourse when there's no one maintaining standards of truth and fairness, especially with tools of mass dissemination at hand.)

But he wasn't done either.

@CleverHillTroll
Dec 1
It may not be fraud. It may be that nursing a grievance culture, real & imagined, empowers extremists. @LiberalinMD
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like

That's the comment that made me want to share the exchange with all of you, and, really, made me want to write this essay. The words "grievance culture" stand out like a flare at midnight, but I'll get back to them.

My accusation that Sanders was denied the nomination through election fraud is now lumped in with my accusation that Wall St buys influence in DC., and the troll abandons the notion that all these accusations are delusional; he calls them "real & imagined." But interestingly, the real accusations are just as bad as the delusional ones, because both come from a "grievance culture" which "empowers extremists."

Let's get our bearings. We're now in a place where accusations of corruption and abuse, even if it's really happening, are wrong and bad--because they "empower extremists." The problem with such accusations is no longer that they are untrue. Even if something really is going horribly wrong, you are bad to say anything about it because if you say anything about the people hurting us, a really bad man from outside will come and hurt us all.

This almost sounds like the voice of an abused child afraid of being taken into foster care, except for one thing: the phrase "grievance culture," which sounds more like it comes from a DC consultant's office. In fact, if I'm right about this guy, I would expect to see that phrase again, maybe many more times over the coming months. Imagining a bad "grievance culture" responsible for political extremism creates an atmosphere in which holding or speaking any grievance makes you the problem.

I couldn't help but think of this: [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZRTbgYXAmo]

Thoughts? Other troll encounters you'd like to share?
We should keep talking about this sort of thing, I think.

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

riverlover's picture

and the troll under the bridge. DO I have the right connection? Childhood is far behind me. My childhood home in KY had a water runoff ditch through the back yard. Every house on my side of the street did. It went into a tunnel next house over that went for half a block, before pouring into Beargrass Creek, a tributary (where do these words come from) into the Ohio River. Brand-new subdivision, many kids, a kid-heaven at a time when we (as kids) were allowed to roam. My history now gets fuzzy, somehow all neighbors got bridges (12-14'?) across to the back-back yards. Our Jungle Gym was in the back-back, a piece of land maybe 14 feet to the lot line, houses on the next street over backing to that line, with a bunch of old trees and newer honey locusts. Most did not use their back-backs. Other than kids.

Bridges got built, heavy rains happened and the ditch waters rose and carried bridges for several house relocations. [still fuzzy, I was 5 then]. The bridges were somehow mostly relocated and concrete pads were installed (!) and the bridges were bolted into place. They stood until the non-PT lumber rotted away. [Frankly, I do not think there was a neighbor engineer who understood construction.]

While the bridges were in their prime, good play spots for kids and trolls under the bridges, along with the paper wasps. I hated my time as troll, but fair play among kids, turns were taken.

Painting a bridge requires the ability to sequence.

up
0 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

what you get is Breitbart and a bunch of RW sites. The core of the idea seems to be that only whiners criticize the status quo. Real folks just try to figure out how to navigate things as best they can to help their families survive, maybe even get ahead. Why the two actions, criticism and hustling to survive, are posed as mutually exclusive is not the result of logic or fact, but because that formulation is a not-so-subtle accusation that critics of the status quo don't care about their families. Quod erat demonstrandum, of course.

But your troll is not a Breitbart person. CleverHillTroll is applying "grievance culture" not to concerns about discrimination against minorities but objections to something so generic and universal as corruption. And you're right, the RW implication that you aren't doing your job of looking out for your family is replaced by accusations of insanity, stupidity and ignorance. Lakoff's Daddy and Mommy metaphors for the parties work pretty well here.

That exchange exposes many things, but one thing it confirms is that Rs and Ds are happy to use the same exact language to demonize the Left, even if there are some subtle differences in usage.

up
0 users have voted.

Paul Kantner of Jefferson Airplane owned the epithets in his "We Can Be Together:"

We are all outlaws in the eyes of Amerika
In order to survive we steal cheat lie forge fuck hide and deal
We are obscene lawless hideous dangerous dirty violent and young
But we should be together

And later:

We are forces of chaos and anarchy
Everything they say we are we are
And we are very
Proud of ourselves

That's a very bold way of handling the handlers.

[video:https://youtu.be/OGSCKqtLM9c]

up
0 users have voted.

want and to live lives that provide a means to earn a wage that can buy health care, quality education, safety - fire and police protection, and a dignified retirement with an adequate pension. We want to have the same for generations to come.

Only twisted perverted minds would call these realistic and humble requests a grievance system or a crybaby response. This is supposed to be a democracy and we are in the majority who want these affordable things for ourselves which we will pay for.

We also so to live in a peaceful society that is as free as possible from militarism and scapegoating. We also want to be left alone from government intrusion into our lives without cause. It's not too much to ask.

Is it reasonable that a very small minority want to take this modicum from us so that they can have power and wealth out of all proportion to their numbers and their contributions to society? No it is not. Unfortunately, we are now suffering through a period where the will of the people is ignored and we're being robbed blind: robbed of our rightful compensation for our contribution to the nation's wealth; robbed of clean water and air; robbed of access to affordable health care; and robbed of quality tax funded education.

up
0 users have voted.

"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

belief system that it is impossible to communicate with them unless they undergo a radical change in consciousness. They take the status quo as a given, almost divinely ordained, and they have no concept of democracy. It horrifies and disgusts them to think that their decision-making process might be impacted by something known as the "will of the people."

up
0 users have voted.

our reasonable desires for the type of society we want to live in.

The 1% - for want of a better term - does not wish to have anything to do with us. We are just a "resource" to be used up and the husks discarded. To them, we are both deplorable and disposable.

Since the Constitution has been shredded to accommodate the wishes of the Wealthers, we need to regard the courts as another organization in thrall to the 1%. The Constitution itself is a conservative document, especially compared with the Declaration of Independence, which enshrines privilege of the property owning class at the expense of both the landless and those original Americans to whom land was held in common for the benefit of all, including future generations.

History has examples of people rallying when events were bleakest - perhaps again, in North America.

up
0 users have voted.

"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

"we're being robbed blind"

up
0 users have voted.

are a willing party to this class grab of our individual and collective well being.

up
0 users have voted.

"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

earthling1's picture

Like drug addicts, America now HAS to hit bottom. Absolute bottom before any rise out of the ashes will happen.
As I've commented before, Americans will not respond until they actually feel the lash on their backs.

up
0 users have voted.

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

boriscleto's picture

up
0 users have voted.

" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

Lookout's picture

Here's Garrett discussing his theory of the commons (3 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8gAMFTAt2M

and another 9 min on over population and carrying capacity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyD4xRQo05s&list=PLDf9RLBZ0Hs6OVBkIadwYp...

He was well know in the day for his lifeboat hypothesis - only so many people can survive you have to lose some (like India). Remember the Hitchcock movie from 1944? Alabama's T. Bankhead was a headliner (1 hour 15 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y32qe3aMSaI

This is long at a little over 30 min, but if you've got the time you might find out you're a Marxist.
The empire files with Abby Martin and Richard Wolff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P97r9Ci5Kg

I think Wolff does a great job (as usual) explaining why capitalism is failing. What is next? Perhaps corporate feudalism, or do we already have that?

Hope you all have a good day!

up
0 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

gotta say it, I love this place!
You people(not Perot style) make me Think, give me new perspectives to observe, and just generally all around ROCK intellectually!
For an old stoner, you folk make me burn(and exercise) a whole bunch of neurons, and for That I thank you!
Excellent series, CStS, and great breakdown of the dialogue.

peace

up
0 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

blazinAZ's picture

up
0 users have voted.

There is no justice in America, but it is the fight for justice that sustains you.
--Amiri Baraka

gulfgal98's picture

Thank you for this very thoughtful and excellent essay and for the equally insightful comments made by others here.

I truly appreciate how you broke down the Twitter Exchange because I only have the patience for one such exchange before I dump it. You dissected it very well and what we are seeing as a result is exactly how those in power use language to continually divide us and create barriers. This is no accident because as long as we are divided into ever smaller groups, they win.

Throwing up a barricade in the very beginning of a conversation prohibits the real exchange of ideas and blunts critical thinking. The faceless anonymity of the internet makes this technique even more potent. Arguing over words misdirects the participants from discussing and sharing real ideas. One of the things I learned from doing the Peace vigils was that we encountered considerably less of this misdirection and gaslighting compared to the internet. Perhaps that is because when it is done face to face and one on one., the anonymity disappears.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I loved your breakdown of the subtext in the exchange.

It makes me think about how articulate and intelligent people can be in discussing issues when they are outside of a team mentality group psyche that revolves around circling wagons in order to protect an individual figurehead.

As an example, TOP was a good place to be as part of the opposition in the Bush days, but became close to useless once President Obama took office. Once the partisan defenses kick in, all brains get checked out upon log-in. That's why I don't see that place or others like it ever being an effective tool for change, because they can't be objective about their own party's flaws. Although, chained CPI and the TPP were defeated I think due to the efforts of the indefatigable who simply had the facts on our side. Yet I always recall a fairly prominent frequent poster wasting a lot of time telling people the chained CPI wasn't a benefits cut when it clearly was and I would simply wonder why someone would be so invested in making crap palatable simply because it was crap being served by our side.

I think one of the better things to happen recently is so many people divesting themselves from group think and declaring as Independents because at this point neither major Party is worthy of or deserving of membership.

up
0 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Anja Geitz's picture

Brought this out in supporters to the point where no reasonable discussion could take place:

Yet I always recall a fairly prominent frequent poster wasting a lot of time telling people the chained CPI wasn't a benefits cut when it clearly was and I would simply wonder why someone would be so invested in making crap palatable simply because it was crap being served by our side

Hair pulling conversation for the last 8 years culminated into an election that completely severed the left by way of the Whig Party. Irreconcilable differences, indeed.

up
0 users have voted.

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

enhydra lutris's picture

It seems more and more common today for conversations to degrade into contests. It is perhaps more pronounced in political discourse, which I suspect has to do with the nature of the beast. I noticed it almost immediately at Daily Kos, back when I joined, and either noticed it more or watched it grow and become more rampant as time passed.

The gist of it is that discussions have degraded into debates. Nobody is working to discern the truths and most viable alternative hypotheses and models, nor to analyze various possible courses of actions and their benefits and drawbacks, but only to win the debate. Part of this seems to be driven purely by a determination to install one ideology as the infallible truth or absolute action plan without regard to reality and internal contradictions. This is done by shutting out all discussion of alternatives and all criticisms of the preferred ideology.

In part, it also degrades into some sort of simplistic tribal status search. People seek to gain accolades and approval from their team-mates and achieve status within their team bu showing up outsiders, regardless of the validity of the positions and statements of said outsiders. Thus an eloquently presented and well supported presentation of a position at variance with that held by their team, that is shut down by some masterpiece of fallacious snarkery gains great approval and huzzahs for the snarkster regardless of its lack or content or merit.

I think that a hallmark of these types of situations is the relatively widespread approval of obvious sophistry, fallacies and linguistic gaming. Shutting down a discussion, rather than being abhorrent, is applauded, because it protests the sanctity of the ideology bubble being defended by closing off discussion. Simply think how often you would, as a critical observer, find yourself yelling either "digressin" or "non-sequitur".

The question, or problem, for our times, is how to get past this, and to create a place where meaningful discussion, especially goal driven problem solving oriented discussion, can transpire. I am undecided whether calling this stuff out as it happens has any beneficial effect at all, though pieces such as this essay, if frequent enough, might lead to some improvement. It is funny, because we even see it here now and then, and I keep thinking of writing an essay myself on what it is and why to eschew it and am therefore very glad to see this post.

up
0 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

events can be put into context and thus understood. Radical economists - a greatly marginalized group, even driven out of academia - have a coherent framework of global monopoly capitalism and its supporting network the Military-Industrial-Financial Complex, that not only explains the internal logic of the destructive nature of this system, but has predicted such major turning points as the financialization of international capital and the inevitable secular stagnation of the system which makes finance the last profit center but only if backed up by the state and its military forces.

I hope that you do write an essay because I think it will be one that's both insightful and needed.

up
0 users have voted.

"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

riverlover's picture

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mbvd/nordstrom-is-selling-a-rock-in-a-leather-c...

I have been laughing ever since, Nordstroms has gentrified the Pet Rock for an eye-popping price. The comments are worth their weight in--rocks.

up
0 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Lily O Lady's picture

real money for it. Anyone who does must have rocks in their head.

up
0 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Wed, 12/07/2016 - 4:41pm — Lily O Lady

When I saw this I wondered if anyone is actually paying

real money for it. Anyone who does must have rocks in their head.

Maybe they wanted to upgrade to real hand-made LA rocks with back-stitched leather snuggies? I'll bet the cheap rocks they'd had were nude.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Anja Geitz's picture

Efforts of OWS down in Zuchotti Park, many of the jeers from opponents ran along the lines of "Get A Job". Implying, of course, that those who did have jobs, weren't the ones complaining. The same jeers were also trotted out during Civil Rights & Vietnam Protests. The "Grievance Culture" narrative tries to take discrediting the "complainer" by adding a consequence. Old tactic with a new twist.

The thing is, did Hillarys campaign fail to stop Trump because enough people just didn't believe their propaganda and chose to believe their lying eyes? And is the Establishment still betting in their tone deaf way that we haven't reached a tipping point where people are expecting action from their leaders, not more rhetoric?

up
0 users have voted.

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

blazinAZ's picture

A constant refrain from people opposed to whatever protest I've ever been involved in. Like we can't work-for-money and also have a critique of what's going on.

At Occupy Tucson, we dealt with this by creating signs with people's skills on them and lining the exterior of the encampment with them. So, as people drove by, they'd see "Skilled Landscaper $10/hour" and "Data Entry Clerk" with phone number, etc. It didn't stop the yelling, and I don't think anyone got hired, but it did point out that folks were willing to work and it made good optics. Some Occupiers couldn't get a job because of the shitty economy, and it's even harder to do when you're homeless or if you've been in jail. Others of us were part-time Occupiers, working when we needed to, demonstrating when we could.

up
0 users have voted.

There is no justice in America, but it is the fight for justice that sustains you.
--Amiri Baraka

Anja Geitz's picture

Have to find themselves in specific situations to acquire awareness. Others can do that through empathy and a justice meter that bends to the least among us.

up
0 users have voted.

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Strife Delivery's picture

This election really helped solidify in some folk's eyes the idea of a thought process being entirely manufactured from above. The phrase "purity" comes to mind. Before this election, the phrase or even anything like it was barely uttered, save for the few folks still beating the dead corpse of Nader. But suddenly, this election? Everyone, everywhere, from the lowliest food soldier to media pundit, talked about purity.

Various frameworks are manufactured from up high and then dropped into place, often overlapping. No, the Democratic party isn't the party of Wall Street.
Shown evidence to disprove said claim.
Activate sub-program 2...Stop being afraid of various boogiemen and stop the victimization, we have to rise up together, unite, stronger together, I'm with her!
When the other party is in power, suddenly the computer shuts down and the frameworks go offline, as we saw when Bush was in office with the anti-war fervor. Once Obama was elected, the computer starts up again, the framework goes online, and then people are docile.

The problem isn't the information you present people; the problem is the filter that people have that your information must first be processed through. That information gets dissected, analyzed, and ultimately tossed into one of the various bins where a series of sub-programs activate, meticulously crafted by various talking points and people in party boardrooms.

up
0 users have voted.
shaharazade's picture

and useless to deal with people online who use language to manipulate, misdirect or invalidate opposing thoughts and emotions. Using messaging, talking points or meme's to derail any deviation, thought crime, from the official latest story line or the designated boogie men that the spinners of lies, blame, and misdirection disseminate across social media. They are nothing but double speak, thought control and as the video clip you posted says rewrites of the the dictionary.

Political linguist's or propagandist's use their bag of tricks to bury those inherent self evident truths tweak the fact's they are so adamant about checking and obscure the reality and truth behind binary thinking and the minutiae of data. On the social media there are overt trolls and the professional disseminaters of lies and language that's aim is to discredit any one who dares to speak the truth about our righteous grievances. These people do not bother me as much as ordinary people who believe the false narratives they spin and who but into their misinformation, blame, hate and tricks of language. I know many people of good spirit who accept this bs as the reality we live in. They buy into the us vs. them mentality and mistakenly believe the story lines that their side pumps out as the truth.

The grievance culture is a dozzie, straight out of Orwellian doublespeak. From the US Constitution

http://www.usconstitution.net/intol.html#Grieve

The Declaration of Rights and Grievances

8. That they have a right peaceably to assemble, consider of their grievances, and petition the King; and that all prosecutions, prohibitory proclamations, and commitments for the same, are illegal.

Here is Goldstein's Book Chapter I. Ignorance is Strength from Orwells 1984. http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984_c17.htm

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. The Party intellectual knows in which direction his memories must be altered; he therefore knows that he is playing tricks with reality; but by the exercise of doublethink he also satisfies himself that reality is not violated..........To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies -- all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

Thanks for the great essay. I tend to deal with the overt lying disseminator's of political language or trolls and bots by going into full rant mode and flaming them as they are a big waste of time and do not have good intent. My trouble is when I come upon friends from real life or online people i respect who spout the talking points or false language to bolster their partisanship or delusions that this bs. is the truth.

More Orwell, now this man had a way with words.

"Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give a solidity to pure wind."

up
0 users have voted.

Thanks for sharing CStS.

up
0 users have voted.
mimi's picture

I am a purist who cultivates the grievances over the "culture grievance" trolling manipulators. And I intend to stay that way. What? I am such an extremist. My bad.

"Get a job", "get a life", "what' the problem, you can't get along with people", "you are naive", "silly woman", "such subconcious racial thoughts you have there"... I have enough culture grievances to shake a stick at, apparently. May be I should kill myself, heh ....

I wouldn't be able to concentrate over twitter discussions. Thank God, I am impatient and stop reading, if I don't understand what has been meant and said, which happens here to me as well, if you talk in your specific DFH lingo. More than three times I don't google the meaning of words I read. After that I say, oh shit.

Thanks for your series. Important issues you touch here. I was too lazy to find out who is Mr. Gardiner so far, but it is on my to do list ... I hope you can foregive me.

up
0 users have voted.
shaharazade's picture

good to read you today. I use DFH language but it's easier to understand then political language which is designed to confuse, twist reality and invalidate your own lying eyes. I like your point of view, you are honest and humanistic with your own objectivity and yet are willing to explore the wild world wide net. I relate to and understand your 'cultural grievances' even though they may differ from mine. I miss you lately, we must be on caucus99 at different times.

Mr. Gardiner is Chance the gardener, a.k.a. Chauncey Gardiner. He is the main character in a great movie called Being There.

Being There is a 1979 American comedy-drama film directed by Hal Ashby. Its screenplay was adapted by Jerzy Kosiński and the uncredited Robert C. Jones from the 1970 novel by Kosiński. The film stars Peter Sellers, Shirley MacLaine, Melvyn Douglas, Richard A. Dysart, Jack Warden, and Richard Basehart.

I won't be a spoiler and give away the plot. I highly recommend it as it's quite applicable to the our current sound bite use of language and banal politics. To me this was one of Peter Sellers best performances.

Twitter does not seem to have conversations just people tweeting their grievances or opinions and talking over each other. I joined it but never use it to communicate. I just lurk and try to follow the tweeter's train of thoughts.

up
0 users have voted.
mimi's picture

I hope one day to watch the movie. One movie at a time so to speak... :-)... I am getting there.

You are right, I am not on C99p at the same usual times in the evening anymore. I am in a different time zone in Germany for the time being and have a hell of time adjust my biological inner clock with the EST time of the EB. I had also a lousy internet connection on top of that.

Right now I re-discover "my German homeland" and my "extended family", ie what is left of it. Enough "cultural grievances" to run away from them and having to be grateful for them at the same time. I am hibernating in Northern Germany. The light is so different here. The cold as well. Right now I am crawling back in my bed, because there is no reason to get up at 8 o'clock in the morning.

You have a wonderful day. It's nice to watch the sun rising.

PS I don't mind any lingo, I just regret often to not get the jokes immediately.

up
0 users have voted.