What's the Message, Mr. Gardiner

An open thread dedicated to discussing books, movies, and tv shows we love. And occasionally some politics.

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Today I thought I'd talk about A Wrinkle in Time, mainly because I'm filled with disgust at the strategy the establishment is doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on: sending out beloved or respected surrogates, who have some kind of emotional or moral authority, to spread its messages.

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We've seen this now with John Lewis. With Dolores Huerta. With Robert Reich, Michael Moore, Bruce Springsteen, LeBron James. With Bernie Sanders. Obviously, not all these people have the same amount of credibility, or the same kind of credibility, to spend on the cause of propping up the Establishment's crap messaging, and the list of people I give here is far from complete (Keith Olbermann. Shaun King. Bill McKibben. NOAM CHOMSKY???) Now, it appears they're even using Jill Stein, albeit with a twist (Stein isn't telling people to support Clinton, she's just taking actions that could result in Clinton securing the White House, or, failing that, portray Clinton as an innocent victim of election fraud rather than its perpetrator.) But the moral surrogacy is the same; the Clinton camp didn't take the lead, because they've got no credibility. They're borrowing Stein's and the Green Party's, and, in doing so, draining them of at least some of it.

Hillary is like a political dead zone, not in the cool Christopher Walken 80s movie sense,

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj9M34DzAKo]

Well, OK, maybe a little bit like that...

but in the holy shit there's a place in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico with no life sense. She's the Typhoid Mary of moral and political credibility. Americans identified her with corruption and deceit before she took us on this Magical Mystery Tour for ten horrible months (and counting). Because of that, her campaign kept her as much out of the limelight as a Presidential candidate could be, and sent out an array of surrogates, none of whom made any impact on Hillary's numbers at all. You can't increase Hillary's credibility by sending a beloved person to speak on her behalf. All that does is decrease the credibility of the surrogate. It's happened again and again, to the extent that I sometimes suspect the establishment of taking advantage of this horrible quality to destroy the reputations of good people.

It works on organizations too (it's a lot more difficult to trust the NRDC when they support Hillary, who used her State Department to globalize fracking; it's difficult to take NARAL seriously when they don't seem bothered at all by Hillary saying she's willing to compromise with Republicans on abortion as long as they include a provision for the life of the mother.) And, gods help us, it works to some extent even on voters. I'm convinced one purpose of this election is to divide the American people, and I've been vigilant about fighting that tendency in my own mind. But even I spent months thinking "Jesus, Hillary was against marriage equality until 2013! Why in the name of God is the LGBT community rallying behind her!" It took me a while to figure out "Oh. It's because of Pence." But even so, the enthusiasm seems pretty damned misplaced.

So what has this to do with A Wrinkle in Time?

To summarize for those who don't know the book, A Wrinkle in Time describes the quest of Meg Murray, her brother Charles Wallace, and their friend Calvin O'Keefe to rescue her father, a physicist, from an alien planet. Her father and other government scientists had been experimenting with something called the tesseract: a way of folding space so that travel doesn't take time. Dad disappears, and three otherworldly figures come to take the children on a journey to save him.

He was trying to get to Mars. Instead, he got to Camazotz, a planet that looks like this:

wrinkle-in-time-camazotz-houses-camazotztown.jpg

At first, the children think it's an ordinary suburb. Then all the doors fly open at once, identical boys emerge from the houses and start bouncing what looks like an identical ball in perfect rhythm with each other. After about five minutes, identical mothers open the doors, clap their hands in perfect time, and the boys catch their balls simultaneously and go back inside.

There's one who bounces to his own rhythm. The children see him again later, imprisoned in a room where he's bouncing the ball--except every time it hits the floor he screams in pain. "After today, he'll never desire to deviate again," muses a Camazotz official.

So horrific police state, near-perfect conformity, all because the minds of the people there are nearly perfectly controlled by one horrible, and telepathic, being.

Interestingly, though, the horrible telepathic being, when it becomes aware of the children's presence, doesn't attempt to get at them directly. First, it tries through a surrogate, the Man With Red Eyes. But the children don't respond to the Man With Red Eyes' persuasion. Maybe the fact that he has them imprisoned in a room is a clue that they shouldn't trust him, though he does try to convince them that he's a nice guy by giving them a turkey dinner.

And here's where the business of using surrogates to spread an establishment message really gets exciting. The Man With the Red Eyes convinces the youngest, and most telepathically gifted, of the children, to open his mind to him. For the next several paragraphs, Charles Wallace spews the same talking points that the Man With the Red Eyes had before. Until finally, Calvin O'Keefe, my favorite character, says the following. He looks at the Man and says:

"OK, have your henchmen let us go and stop talking to us through Charles. We know it's you talking to us--or whatever is talking through you."

Those words have been going through my head for months. And perhaps that's why I'm rarely surprised when I see another beloved figure or trusted organization spouting the same bullshit we've been getting from corrupt sources (I have to admit the Bruce Springsteen one hurt a bit). It's not that I suspect the establishment of telepathy; L'Engle's point is that tyrants have ways of getting people we respect, admire, or even love, to spread its messaging. Sometimes even with the best of intentions--Charles Wallace succumbs to the Man With Red Eyes because he thinks he can link to his mind and find out where his father is. He wants to know his father, so he opens his mind, and gets taken over.

The deeper question is: what is the effect of this puppetry, long-term? I see it creating a wasteland where trust, faith, and affection once resided; it's a kind of cultural blitzkrieg which has its own motive, regardless of its success or failure in promoting Hillary Rodham Clinton. I think that motive is twofold: to make it impossible to articulate resistance through any vehicle, by corrupting every vehicle that gains visibility, whether that's an organization or an individual, and to sow further division by eradicating trust.

That question's worthy of a deeper discussion than I can pursue here. But, in the meantime,

"Have your henchmen let us go and stop talking to us through Charles. We know it's you talking to us, or whatever is talking through you."

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WindDancer13's picture

It was actually one of he first that I read that had an important female character (even though i think she was somewhat overshadowed by her brother). Of course, back then I guess Dick and Jane could have been seen as equals as I had to watch both of them run. Thanks for the memories, and your points are right on.

In other news, Tulsi Gabbard will be joining the No DAPL protest on Dec. 4th along with about 2000 vets. Apparently, the Voice has no effect on her.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

that starts with the phrase: "It was a dark and stormy night." Smile

The spirituality of the book actually appeals to me pretty strongly. If I were still a Christian, this is probably the kind of Christianity I'd subscribe to.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Lookout's picture

and the best one as I recall. It's been a few years since I read them... A set of books about the time-traveling adventures of the Murray family includes: A Wrinkle in Time, A Wind in the Door and A Swiftly Tilting Planet.

Nice interview with Jill yesterday that might answer (or add more) questions about her. A little long at 20 min...with Jordan of TYT (who is doing a great job reporting on Standing rock)

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUrtinWAOPM]

More rain today. Hope Gatlinburg and gulfgal are are being showered too. All the best to all of you.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

yelling at the police they were criminals. I think he's a tad wrong. They're more an invasionary, occupying army.

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

All the while #TalkingPointsMemo was pimping Hillary, everything was free. Now that their Democratic Party cash cow is dead, look who is charging for everything.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/prime

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

a kid and it's always stayed with me. The whole series, actually. My first exposure to cell biology. Weird what things stick.

peace

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Creosote.'s picture

The plague of conformity levels everything.

The deeper question is: what is the effect of this puppetry, long-term? I see it creating a wasteland where trust, faith, and affection once resided; it's a kind of cultural blitzkrieg which has its own motive, regardless of its success or failure in promoting Hillary Rodham Clinton. I think that motive is twofold: to make it impossible to articulate resistance through any vehicle, by corrupting every vehicle that gains visibility, whether that's an organization or an individual, and to sow further division by eradicating trust.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I'm starting to think the best thing we could do would be to temporarily retreat from the media shitshow, come together, and talk to each other. Right now we're in what amounts to an endless war with deceit. We need to change the terms of the engagement, and IMO, we'll never do that if we don't have a way to come together in a space that is not subject to attack, as everything on the Internet is. Which is not to say it's not incredibly valuable to have a space like C99 out here in cyberspace.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Creosote.'s picture

Yet even exchanging addresses via the net is now a hazard.

I don't see any mention of it, but often in gjohnsit's and other charts the hazard lines all begin to go up in the mid-1980s, or a little earlier, just as computers were introduced. With that, every penny could be watched and with that engine the deceitful mechanical process of moving people out of the equation began.

It is Kafkaeque.

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Lady Libertine's picture

really loved it but cant remember squat. Now you have to tell us ...it had a happy ending no? didnt they manage to rescue Charles out of his stupor? I honestly dont recall.

Once again, CSTS, you're really hitting on something Ive been aware for some time as well, most here are. Even all this crazy ass "fake news" nonsense, which serves to discredit alternative media, is also serving this deeper tactic of WHO CAN YOU TRUST?

It may not be that you totally no longer trust this one or that, its more insidious because of the seeds of doubt. The seepage. Plus its more time-consuming to have to freakin vet everything. (more so than before)

So for me its not always so much WHO (source) - although thats still very valid for me most of the time - but WHAT (content) or some combination of both. Bottom line? "Trust your instincts", my mantra.

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Lily O Lady's picture

"The Foolish and the Weak." With all the stuff I've forgotten, I remember that.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Meg loves Charles. That breaks him free from It. What you say here is absolutely true:


It may not be that you totally no longer trust this one or that, its more insidious because of the seeds of doubt. The seepage.

Sowing doubt is a major tactic of the opposition--they've been doing it w/climate change for a while; not surprising if they repurpose it to other uses.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

blazinAZ's picture

I loved that series, and may still have the well-worn books somewhere. You've picked out a wonderful theme.

Thank you.

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There is no justice in America, but it is the fight for justice that sustains you.
--Amiri Baraka

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

actually, I was less than confident about this one, I don't know why--maybe b/c this issue matters a lot to me, so I was more worried that I hadn't gotten it across well!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

From In Business Madison:

Madison’s progressive radio station, The Mic 92.1, changed formats suddenly the day after the presidential election in favor of holiday music. So, 92.1 WXXM-FM The Mic is now 92.1 Best FM.

Among the Mic’s casualties, the locally-produced Mitch Henck Show and The Devil’s Advocates with hosts Mike Crute and Dom Salvia, as well as national talk shows from Stephanie Miller and others.

According to the Wisconsin State Journal, The Mic drew the highest share in liberal talk radio in the U.S. this past summer according to Nielsen Audio ratings.

As of now, they're playing oldies, not holiday music. Which is cool with me, since the the oldies station switches to all-holiday-music from Thanksgiving through New Year's. The only program I could stand to listen to after May or June was The Devil's Advocates. The rest of it was a total Hillarama. No thanks.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

of the cultural territory of the Left--such as it is.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

hmm something I said wrongly, but I am so confused I can't find what it is.
.... so Lawrence Lessig: The Electoral College Is Constitutionally Allowed to Choose Clinton over Trump

And it’s a judgment which is really asking the question: Should we overrule what the people have done? Now, there are some cases where I think they plainly should overrule what the people have done. For example, if a candidate is a crazy person or if it turns out not to be qualified or is a criminal, those would be good reasons to overrule what the people have done.

So, Trump is crazy, therefore it's ok to overrule the majority of the popular vote for Hillary Clinton, who is not crazy. Got it? Unfortunately the first paragraph made me stop to read further. Tell me, if there is something in his opinion that I should understand.

I am too tired of this shit. At least Boxer is a bit more "logic". Craziness of a person is in the eyes of the beholder. So, who decides if Trump (or Hillary) is "crazy" or not. The voters and noone else.
No need to rely on the judgement of electors. May be I got it wrong. I am so angry I can't read anymore.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I've got to say that I trust nothing coming from Barbara Boxer anymore. I wouldn't buy a glass of water from her if I were on fire--I'd fear it was actually hydrochloric acid.

Boxer was part of the set-up in Nevada that framed Sanders supporters as violent with absolutely no evidence.

I didn't appreciate this:

[video:http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/05/18/senator-barbara-boxer-neva...

This is one of the most dangerous kinds of lies a person can tell: the lie that frames another human being, wrongfully, as a criminal or thug. It can have only one purpose: to make it OK to pre-emptively hurt that person.

The U.S. does it all the time in foreign policy, just using the word "tyrant" or "dictator" instead.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Does everybody remember Boxer saying to CNN that she feared for her life b/c of Sanders' supporters (non-existent) violence?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Probably made some silly mistake--I'm a bit scattered lately b/c I'm living in two places.

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0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

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mimi's picture

mostly, because I am not sure what to believe and think about it. I hope to get any reaction that would help me to evaluate it. You just did that, so I am grateful. I try not to post my own doubts, because I can't back them up with facts, you all have burned into your memory and researched.

I can't tell you how confused I got, when I heard a snippet on German TV from a lady I never had listened to "live".

I am a mess right now. Thanks for helping me.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Doubt,confusion and mistrust is what they're sowing everywhere, I guess in an attempt to keep people from unifying against the establishment.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

enhydra lutris's picture

OT out there, but this wasn't visible to me this morning, so I assumed that there was no OT.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

then JtC figured out I had neglected to put "open thread" in the tags like a doofus! I mean, I was the doofus not JtC. Gotta love dangling modifiers Smile

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

strong thinking in there!

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Damn, I'll be happy when me and my internet connection occupy the same house again. It would be nice to be able to respond when I post the thread!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Damnit Janet's picture

Thinker and Writer.

ps... Me and my daughter loved those books. One of my favorite things about being able to be a parent, the ability to read the books you loved as a child to your own child.

Thank you.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I bet it's wonderful to share these books with the next generation.

I seem to be very much into the books and movies of my childhood, lately.

Of course, if I still care about a book I loved as a child, it's probably pretty damned good--it's usually the best ones that grow with you.

I should write on Ursula LeGuin's The Dispossessed. That would be the first one I write about, other than Star Wars, that was created by a still-living author, which would mean I should probably do her the courtesy of telling her I'm writing about it (she mentions in an essay how critics never do that). But it's such a deep book that it might need more than an Open Thread....

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

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Damnit Janet's picture

Jumping to conclusions is another way.

Your analogy was spot on. (sorry rushing as we are all gearing up for bed since we are all exhausted *crankypants* this season)

I've done some theatrical storytelling to school kids (ages K -6) and I loved it! Just wish I could pay my bills doing that gig though.

Just wanted to say thank you for the insightful essay and making me want to reread Wrinkle for the gobteenth time.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

We should be able to pay our bills doing things like that.

You're welcome. I love that trilogy.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver