The Ukraine Invasion Mid July

In a war, each side attempts to put their own spin on the news. Any news from any source should be read carefully. A good source will quote someone like a government spokesperson and state who that person is and what government they work for so that you can make of it what you will.

The AP, Reuters, Aljazeera, AFP, even the VOA all do this, they also try to double and triple check other sources to see if they are all telling the same tale or if information can be checked against known facts. Not just because they are journalists but also because the more fact based a source is, the more people trust it and use it in the future.

A couple of weeks ago Russia took the city of Lysychansk the last big town to fall in Luhansk Province. To many it was unclear why Ukraine held on in the city as long as it did, it was strategically not important. In hindsight they retreated from well fortified positions strategically, losing as few lives as possible and costing the Russians as much as possible. When it came time to leave they lost no personnel as prisoners.

I also noticed a few weeks ago that Ukraine let slip that they were losing 200 men per day as casualties. Seems like an unusual slip of the tongue. All of the news was what difficult straights Ukraine was in.

Then a week, or a week and a half ago, there started to be videos and news of Ukraine using newer very accurate rockets and blowing up ammunition storage facilities far behind Russian lines. The videos could have been of anything, or all of the same thing. Like I said, one has no way to determine the validity of news from a war.

By this weekend it's no longer supposition. Ukraine blew up the leadership of a division and many ammo storage facilities. Russian soldiers communicate with their families, Russian observers speak fairly freely on the social media site Telegram. NASA also has open source maps showing fires. When an ammo dump cooks off explosives for hours it leaves quite a heat signature.

Russia in the meantime has expended some cruise missiles from submarines and from bombers outside Ukraine's airspace in neighboring countries. Ukraine claims civilian casualties but I would think Russia was trying to hit something, they seemingly have very little accurate artillery.

Russia's method is to line up lots of artillery and bomb a town to rubble before moving in. Unfortunately for all concerned this method leads to tons of civilian deaths and does little to degrade the abilities of the other army. This used to be the method we all used, think Dresden, Tokyo, Hanoi.

Ukraines method seems to have more results, they are already shifting their targeting to air defences. Without artillery shells Russia can't bomb with abandon, if they lose air defences it will greatly increase the lifespan of drones. America has AWAKS over the Baltics and England has them over the Black Sea. Russia has none.

In the black sea Ukraine retook Snake Island and they now have plenty of surface to ship missiles.

So far Ukraine has made no effort to counter attack. Attacking leads to lopsided casualty figures. The resident populations of Russian occupied areas seem much less enthralled with the recent invasion than they were when Russia was simply supporting those with ties to old mother Russia.

Filtration camps are sending anywhere from hundreds of thousands to a million Ukraine civilians to the far NE borders of Japan and China to be relocated. Plus when an army turns your city to rubble, you look upon your own country in a more favorable light.

Russia is apt to cut off gas to Europe at any time. There is a winter coming up. Russian inflation is around 15%, and the Ruble has strengthened against the dollar.

Ukraine is probably imagining re taking Kerson. It would cut off Crimea and perhaps leave them in a strong position re the rest of Ukraine. Something will break the current stalemate. Of course if Russia simply stopped attacking and went back to Russia the war would be over, but if Ukraine stops fighting for their country Ukraine will be over.

https://www.aljazeera.com/tag/ukraine-russia-crisis/
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-government-and-politics-9adeb7...

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snoopydawg's picture

Might as well just use the state department for your news sources…oh wait you are.

The AP, Reuters, Aljazeera, AFP, even the VOA all do this, they also try to double and triple check other sources to see if they are all telling the same tale or if information can be checked against known facts. Not just because they are journalists but also because the more fact based a source is, the more people trust it and use it in the future.

Voice of America is all CIA talking points and has been since its creation. It’s pure propaganda and it’s why we once had the Smith-Mundt act which didn’t allow the government to spout propaganda at at us. You should look it up and see what happened after Obama rescinded it.

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The rest of this essay could have been written by the state department itself. Oh well time will tell the truth once Russia meets their objectives in Ukraine and elsewhere. Meanwhile Ukraine will keep losing troops and civilians in a conflict that was lost the minute Russia decided to protect the Donbas and de-nazify the country. If you are comfortable supporting Nazis I guess that’s your right. I find it beyond heinous that my tax dollars are supporting them.

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I was unaware of how national control of journalism works.

Being ignorant of how news works, I was completely trusting in CNN in the lead up to the Iraq war. Of course my trust in their rigorous journalistic methods did not betray me. Just as Judith Miller of the New York Times or any of the hard hitting journalism Washington Post questioning how a small UAV with no C2 system would endanger the US. ''

Of course being ignorant of how news organizations work, I can only imagine the transformation of Al Jazeera Arabic prior to 2010 and its solid reputation of actual news into the current government mouthpiece is also based on 'journalism.' Which led all the journalist with so-called integrity who didn't want to be a real journalist and echo what their government told them to say to quit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4YCZE0rr4Y

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@Mickt at the NYT. One must be true to the talking points! Seems to be the new meaning of journalism. Be a parrot, and be paid well.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

@Mickt

source. Wendy did a great essay on this a few years ago. And when they say they check their sources and stories they turn to other sites for fact checking of course the facts match up. CNN to the NYT: Did you see the report from the AP stating that Russia is paying the Taliban money for bounties on US servicemen? CNN Yep we just pulled the story off the AP wires. NYT: Good deal. You just confirmed our story so we are going to print it. CNN: Good deal. You can say that we verified your story.

Sheesh. After the WMDs debacle and other false stories anyone still believing mainstream media deserves to be misled.

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@Mickt
mouthpiece by Hillary Clinton under Obama's term during the US engineered "Arab Spring" in 2010.

Al Jazeera Faked Syria, Libya News Reports Says Producer

A producer from the Arab satellite network Al Jazeera reveals the news channel fabricated stories on the unrest in Syria as he resigns in protest.

Alexander Higgins
April 4th, 2012

Moussa Ahmed, a producer for Al Jazeera’s Beirut Bureau, is just one of the five Al-Jazeera employees that have resigned in the last couple of weeks over the news outlets biased coverage of the unrest in Syria.

In resigning he has came forward and said he decided to leave Al Jazeera as the TV channel concealed facts and fabricated news stories entirely.

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@CB It broke my heart.

I loved their news site. During the Afghan war in the early 2000s it was a great news source. Unlike the western media. Many people had great respect for Al Jazeera. Then the government ruined it. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

I quit watching Western media in the run up to the Iraq war. I found that yelling at the TV did no good. I still read the Washington Post just to get an idea of what the government is telling its minions to think. And if there ever was a blatant CIA spokesman it is David Ignatius.

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CB's picture

Filtration camps are sending anywhere from hundreds of thousands to a million Ukraine civilians to the far NE borders of Japan and China to be relocated.

Russia has offered Russian passports to Ukrainians well before February 24, 2022.

Citizenship for Donbass: the Interior Minister called the number of Russian passports issued to residents of the DPR and LPR
2019-12-09

About 125 thousand inhabitants of Donbass have already received Russian citizenship according to a simplified procedure, which was introduced by decree of Vladimir Putin in April 2019. In total, over 160 thousand people turned to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia on this issue. Such data was cited by the head of the ministry Vladimir Kolokoltsev at a meeting of the interagency commission to implement the state program to facilitate the voluntary resettlement of compatriots living abroad to Russia. According to the minister, much has been done lately in terms of improving migration legislation.

Law for people

On Monday, Russian Interior Minister Vladimir Kolokoltsev held a meeting of the interagency commission to implement the state program to facilitate the voluntary resettlement of compatriots living abroad in the Russian Federation.

The Minister of Internal Affairs said that much has been done lately in terms of improving migration legislation. In particular, the list of categories of citizens who can get a temporary residence permit outside the quota has been expanded, and a residence permit in Russia has become unlimited.

In addition, Kolokoltsev said that after providing residents of Donbass with the opportunity to obtain Russian citizenship in a simplified manner, more than 160 thousand people have already taken advantage of this right.
...
As the head of state noted, after the outbreak of conflict in eastern Ukraine, the inhabitants of the DPR and LPR were deprived of “basic human rights,” due to the lack of Ukrainian documents, they faced great problems, for example, getting an education or traveling somewhere if necessary. Putin noted that the law will solve the humanitarian problems of people.

At the same time, the Russian side has repeatedly emphasized that the document is not aimed at creating any problems for the Ukrainian authorities, in particular, it is not required to refuse their Ukrainian passports when applying for citizenship.

Acceptance of applications for citizenship of the Russian Federation in a simplified manner in the DPR began on May 3, and in the LPR on May 6. From the very first days, huge lines lined up at the offices where documents were received.
...

Russian passports issued to almost 530,000 Donbas residents – media
02.05.21

Putin enacted an expedited passport issuance procedure for Donbas residents two years ago.
...
"Since the enactment of a presidential decree dated April 24, 2019 ... more than 527,000 persons permanently residing in certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions in Ukraine have acquired Russian citizenship," the ministry's press center said.

Yet, almost 2,000 residents of the occupied territories have been denied Russian citizenship.

Thus, 40% of applications were rejected due to the fact that people had restrictions on entry into Russia over administrative expulsion, deportation, readmission, or over a decision under which they were declared persona non grata in the Russian Federation.

A third of those who were denied Russian citizenship have active or outstanding criminal records. A quarter of applicants were rejected over the fact that they had allegedly advocated a forced change in Russia's constitutional system, posing a security threat to that country.

Russian citizenship for residents of occupied Donbas

  • In April 2019, Russian President Vladimir Putin enacted a decree on the expedite procedure for issuing Russian passports to residents in temporarily occupied Donbas.
  • The Kremlin says Russian passports are issued to residents of the temporarily occupied areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, because "ethnic Russians live there," and Russia will continue to protect them.
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CB's picture

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@CB Not sure what you are showing me here. I see a photo of a live mom with baby and a dead mom with baby. Without context it's only unseemly, and without legit context it is certainly possible to be anything. Were they murdered by ANTIFA fascists? Adherents of Tucker Carlson? Charles Manson? I guess you could say anyone did it.

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@ban nock
the conflict in Ukraine since the US engineered coup in 2014 - or you have only relied on the MSM to get your "information".

Note: Horlivka is Ukrainian spelling of the original Gorlovka.

“The Gorlovka Madonna”, she died with her child, holding him in her hands.

Christina Zhuk with her 10-month-old daughter became a sad symbol of the Donbas war. They died in Horlivka during shelling from the Ukrainian side on July 27, 2014.

On this day, the city of Horlivka was subjected to massive shelling by Ukrainian security forces. In the course were launched the installation of volley fire "Grad". As a result of shelling of Horlivka from heavy guns for the period from 27 to 29 July injured 100 people, another 27 were killed, four of them children, reported in the city Council. Among the dead was Christina Zhuk and her daughter.

Kristina Zhuk was 23 years old, her daughter Kira 10 months, when they were killed in Horlivka. The young mother was buried with the baby in her arms. A terrible tragedy then excited the world, the pictures flew around the world, and the dead Christina was then called the “Gorlovskaya Madonna”.

Christina lived in Kiev, in Horlivka came to her mother. They were going to leave the city due to the deterioration of the military situation, a departure was already planned. It was not fate. Christina stayed in Horlivka forever.

On the Third Anniversary of the Gorlovka Massacre…
...
On the third anniversary of the murder of Kristina “Madonna of Gorlovka” and her daughter Kira – excerpt from an interview with Kristina’s mother:

“Kristina was intelligent. She graduated from our Gorlovka institute of foreign languages. She wanted to achieve much in life. She loved her daughter Kira very much, she wanted and waited for her birth. Already when she was pregnant she asked all the time: ‘When will Kira appear’. She knew how the baby will be named, how she will be.

When Kira was born, Kristina couldn’t let her out of her hands. Kira endlessly sang songs – waking up in the morning she shouted from the bedroom: ‘Ba! Ba!’, and began to sing songs. Our neighbors laughed at everything, as from the first day we constantly sang songs to her. Neighbors asked who sings here? It was me and Kristina. I played French songs and Kira already murmured singing.

I still have the feeling that they just went out for a walk, and they will now return, and I will mutter in the evening that you came back so late, it is time to bathe. Every time when they were late and came back, they shouted: ‘Ura! Grandmother, we learned to crawl!’ or ‘Ura! Grandmother, we learned to walk!’, ‘Ura! We weaved the first wreathe!’. Kira just learned to walk. In this park they walked 2-3 times a day, they almost didn’t leave it, there, in this grass they learned both to crawl and walk. They lived in this park and they died there.”
...

How the children of Donbass died under the shelling of the Ukrainian security forces
February 25, 2022

Each of us knows what the loss of a loved one is. But God only knows what a mother feels when she loses her own child. Military operations in the Donbass have been going on for eight years. Eight years of bloody slaughter, in which not only soldiers, but also civilians, including small children, died every week. They have been deprived of a future.

But for some reason, they didn’t seem to notice this before, or they tried to close their eyes to the atrocities of the Ukrainian authorities. FAN decided to remind why Russia decided to end the war in the Donbass.

“If the Western media had at least partially shown what has been happening all these eight years – about the alley of angels in the Donbass, about the torn and murdered women and children, all the daily bombings, then the Western community would not have questions “What is happening?” There would be a question: “Why hasn’t Russia done this yet?”
...
Kira Zhuk (10 months), Gorlovka
Karina Belonog (9 years old), Gorlovka
Sonya Martynyuk (4 years old), Kirovskoe
Kirill (2 years old), Dasha (8 years old), Nastya (13 years old) Konoplevs, Gorlovka
Andrey Zaplava (9 years old), Gorlovka
Nastya Podlipskaya (11 months), Gorlovka
Vlad Kravchenko (18 years old), Donetsk
Vanya Nesteruk (4 years old), Telmanovo
Liza Serbinenko (15 years old), Snezhnoye
...
The stories of Tolya, Nastya Podlipskaya, Vanya Nesteruk and others are far from the only ones. They can go on and on. During the eight years of the war they accumulated into several volumes. No one argues that war is scary. But the expression “all means are good” is not always suitable even for war.

Meanwhile, the children of the Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics, evacuated due to the aggravation of the situation in the Donbass, began classes at the school in Novocherkassk. Children from the DPR and LPR in Novocherkassk study in ordinary classes together with Russian schoolchildren.

Take note that this is the reason why Russian Ukranians sent their children to Russia.

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CB's picture

@ban nock @ban nock

Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building
May 5, 2014

Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.

On their way to attacking the union hall, which was occupied by anti-Kiev government demonstrators fearing for their lives, the rightists recruited members of a Ukrainian football club, the Chernomorets, according to numerous reports in the European press and on line.

Many of those who attacked and burned the building wore swastikas and other fascist insignias, according to observers. Eye witnesses said that the fascists were armed with bats, shields, and metal chains and that the people inside the union hall had run there for protection from them. After the attack by the rightists streets around the trade union headquarters were reportedly stained with the blood of those who had jumped from windows to escape the flames.

Women and children were reported to be among those burned alive after initial rounds of shots and Molotov cocktails were thrown into the building by the right wingers.

The right wingers who burned the union headquarters had already set another pro-Russian encampment in Odessa afire. That encampment consisted of rows of tents in Odessa’s Kulikova Field Square.

Police said that many of the victims at the House of Trade Unions had choked to death before burning up. The majority of the victims were found lying dead on the floors but some had jumped from windows, according to police.

As the union hall was engulfed in flames, photos posted on Twitter showed people hanging out of windows and sitting on windowsills where they appeared to be preparing to jump.

According to numerous reports those who jumped and survived were surrounded and beaten by right-wingers, including members of the football team.

The videos and photos showed Ukrainian riot police standing there doing nothing to stop or prevent the violence. The Ukrainian police said they could do nothing because they were “unarmed.”

Right Sector has bragged about its role in the killings on line and on YouTube:

“At first we broke through the side, and then we came through the main entrance,” said one pro-Kiev rightist who identified as a member of the group.

As the building burned some of the pro-Kiev activists said on Twitter that “Colorado beetles are being roasted up in Odessa,” using a derogatory term for the St. George’s ribbons worn by many of the anti-Kiev government demonstrators.

There were few official media outlets present, thus the heavy reliance on live streamed social media.

“The aim is to completely clear Odessa of pro-Russians,” said Dmitry Rogovsky, another Right Sector activist whose hand was injured during the fighting.

Increasing violence by the rightists is a growing embarrassment to the U.S. and the European Union, which have backed the right wing coup in Kiev and have tried to pin the blame for Ukraine’s troubles on Russia. Leading circles in those countries had hoped to use the coup government to force an IMF-designed austerity program on the Ukraine. If the right wingers continue to embarrass the West, however, U.S., EU and IMF plans for the Ukraine could go awry.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wamDOVAL79M]

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@CB Sounds dreadful, do you have that story from a legit source or is it fabricated?

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snoopydawg's picture

@ban nock

There’s actually instructions for you to it correctly just below the dialogue box.

As for the history of the Maiden square massacre even your beloved sources reported on it back when it happened. And they even admitted that it was the neo Nazis who did the deed. They also used to report on how Ukraine was killing Ukrainians living in the Donbas since they refused to accept the coup puppet president that Obama installed. You are very ill informed on the history of what led up to Russia moving on Ukraine. But I guess that let’s you have your righteous outrage at Russia whilst denying what the nasty Nazis there have been doing in Ukraine for many decades. Your beloved sources wrote about that too before they were told to stop covering them.

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How will you explain this? Your beloved Reuters is right there for you to see.

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@ban nock
(Note: most are behind paywall)

Ukraine clashes: dozens dead after Odessa building fire

Trade union building set alight after day of street battles in Black Sea resort city

Burned Alive: How the 2014 Odessa Massacre Became a Turning Point for Ukraine

May 4, 2022 Burned Alive: How the 2014 Odessa Massacre Became a Turning Point for Ukraine By Evgeny Norin, a Russian historian focused on Russia's wars and international politics Clashes between opposing activists turned into mass murder. The perpetrators have never been punished. Eight years ago this Monday, something significant happened in Odessa, a historically important city in […]

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@ban nock

no point to this picture either. But what does that patch he’s wearing mean? Maybe you can look into it for us.

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Lookout's picture

These MSM outlets you list are mostly CIA/MIC propaganda.

Try Scott Ritter who tried to warn us about the Iraq war lies. TPTB have lied us into every war and the Ukraine conflict is no exception.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z39ITwBw_UQ]
CB provides you lots of sources. All I can say is remember WMD in Iraq, the gulf of Tonkin in VN, and the Syrian gassing lie, and every war we have driven with lies. It is the US MO.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout Here's a list of sources generally called the MSM.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_media#:~:text=In%20journalism%2...(MSM,to%20contrast%20with%20alternative%20media.

REuters, AP, AFP, Aljazeera, they aren't on there.

The Associated Press is an independent global news organization dedicated to factual reporting. Founded in 1846, AP today remains the most trusted source of fast, accurate, unbiased news in all formats and the essential provider of the technology and services vital to the news business.

I think they are more factual than some long haired you tuber with gold chains and screaming at the video feed from his basement.

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snoopydawg's picture

@ban nock

AP independent. 9 billionaire people own most mainstream media outlets and have ties to defense industries. but sure they are trustworthy. That’s been known for decades. Even the shitlibs wrote about once upon a time. Have you forgotten?

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@ban nock

Associated Press IS the MSM.

Our story

For 170 years, we have been breaking news and covering the world’s biggest stories, always committed to the highest standards of objective, accurate journalism. We were founded as an independent news cooperative, whose members are U.S. newspapers and broadcasters, steadfast in our mission to inform the world. From delivering the news via pony express in 1846 to working in virtual reality today, we are always innovating.

You can see AP's anti Russian bias here: Russia-Ukraine war

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It is a good summation of the misinformation about Ukraine from our MSM.
https://scheerpost.com/2022/07/17/patrick-lawrence-the-imaginary-war/

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981