Turkey in a proxy war against the U.S.
The Syria civil war has always been about proxy armies.
However, Turkey's invasion of Syria Kurdistan has taken this to another level.
Ankara’s latest military operation into the Afrin enclave in Syria is yet another example of Turkey’s drift from NATO. It is a de facto proxy war against the United States and part of a broader Turkish ambition for regional hegemony.
...Washington made it abundantly clear to Ankara that Afrin would be excluded from its new border force. In other words, the Turkish pretext for launching the incursion, the prevention of a PYG force in the Afrin corridor, is bogus.
To make matters worse, before Turkey launched its new operation it was not U.S. or NATO coordination that was sought. Instead Ankara looked for Russian permission.
...And now in Syria, Turkey is seeking to dislodge the U.S. presence by backing the Free Syrian Army against the U.S.-supported SDF. This latest operation is nothing less than a proxy war against the U.S. Erdogan has even expressed his intention to continue after Afrin.
Ankara wants to finish the job it started with its first foray into Syria, Operation Euphrates Shield, which was completed in March of last year. Erdogan stated that after Afrin, Turkish forces will march on to Manbij, and then even further towards the Iraqi border where PYG forces are located. In other words, to obliterate U.S.-supported forces.
America, and President Trump, have a very real problem.
The Pentagon already intended to launch a proxy war in Syria against Iran and Russia, but suddenly a NATO ally, a nation we are sworn to defend, is at war with our proxies in Syria.
This is essentially Trump's first war. It's a war that can't be won.
It can only get worse.
U.S. officials, including Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, have denied that a Kurd-dominated border force is being created -- though the coalition against Islamic State has confirmed it is being formed.
“Who are you deceiving?” Erdogan said. “We will eradicate all of them.”
The operation in Afrin will be followed by an offensive against Manbij, he added, referring to another Kurdish stronghold on the western bank of the Euphrates River, where some U.S. troops are deployed alongside Kurdish forces.
Things get even more complicated at Manbij. If Turkey follows through with attacking Manbij, the U.S. will suddenly find itself on the same side as the Assad government, the government that we intend to overthrow.
Think about that for a moment.
The Syrian government, close ally of Iran, is obviously against the Turkish invasion, including threats to shoot down Turkish planes.
The Assad government views the U.S.-created 'border force' as a threat, just like Turkey does.
However, Damascus views the Syrian Kurds as unreliable allies, while Turkey is a hostile neighbor that has called for regime change in Syria.
The U.S. is in a tough spot.
If we defer to Turkey, then we must abandon the Syrian Kurds, and any hopes of regime change in Syria, as well as fighting Iranian proxies in Syria on behalf of Israel.
Those are not objectives that will be easily given up.
If we don't abandon the Syrian Kurds, then we risk a military confrontation with a NATO ally. That will splinter NATO, and we'll be doing it with the approval of Damascus, Tehran, and Moscow.
That's also tough to swallow.
In the meantime, it's worth noting that the Syrian Kurds are tough fighters.
Turkey's jihadist proxies were not exactly impressive during Operation Euphrates Shield. I would not be surprised if the FSA proxy army simply isn't capable of defeating the Kurds themselves, and Turkey will have to commit their regular army.
Comments
Turkey's war is rational
unlike our Syrian policy
Classic Blunder
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmT0_hKSUrw]
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Turkey
didn't just have a "reluctance to fight the Islamic State," as described in your link. Turkey supports the establishment of the Islamic State, as pointed out by our Defense Intelligence Agency in 2012:
Congress would not support getting into Syria without the pretext of fighting ISIS in response to its atrocities, well publicized and agonized over by John McCain. Once there, the American military has been fighting against ISIS, meaning it has been fighting against the CIA sponsored Gulf States and Turkey. The WEST, described by the DIA, is the CIA's policy of supporting the GULF COUNTRIES AND TURKEY and ISIS. That policy is in absolute opposition to what the American military was sent there to do, to destroy ISIS.
It's not just a clusterfuck. It's the American taxpayer funding both sides of a war, our covert CIA budget fighting our so-called military budget, all of which makes us the banker for the merchants of death.
I was in Turkey, in 1991
Flying a KC-135 out of Incirlik AB, refueling A-10s and F-111s providing air cover over the Iraqi Kurds, protecting them from Saddam. Once in a while, refueling a flight of Turkish F-4s, carrying bombs. (Odd, I thought to myself). I later found out those F-4s were bombing the Turkish Kurds (when they started shooting at me, unexpectedly); as part of an agreement with Turkey, I was refueling them as a sort of trade for use of their airbase.
From that experience, I came to the conclusion that the United States government was really pretty ambivalent about the Kurds, depending on the circumstances of the moment.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
From the start,
there has been the open question of whether or not the U.S. would use the Kurdish fighters to fight ISIS and then allow them, the Kurdish fighters and their people, to be destroyed in the interest of our strategic planning.
If that's true, then the United States government no longer deserves the support of the American people in any form, certainly including tax support, because that makes us the sucking scum of the earth.
The ultimate goal is preventing the Shia Crescent
Goes back to internal policy paper of Clinton State dept. calling for direct attacks on Assad to prevent the formation of a Shia Crescent all in the name of protecting Isreal. ISIS was the Sunni proxy army to do that. Saudis believed they could control ISIS. But ISIS was defeated by Assad/Russia/Iran/Hezbollah.
US neocons controlling State and Pentagon now looking for the Kurds to fill the void left by ISIS that could be big enough to challenge Iran and even take out Assad. Turkey and Iran will simply not tolerate such large organized well armed Kurdish army of tens of thousands of Kurds.
With the Kurdish option going away (not sure they signed up to topple Assad), there is only one choice left. A huge American build up of troops which can march on Damascus to take out Assad and smash any Shia Crescent.
"back to internal policy paper of Clinton State dept." How long
, before we see this labeled "Trump's War"?
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
That won't sell on Main Street
Iran won't tolerate that, and Iraq won't just let it happen either.
We'll have lots of American boys coming back in body bags for an undeclared war.
Probably one without an AUMF.
And that still won't stop Turkey from smashing the Kurds.
The whole region will go up in flames.
Not a "civl war", never has been.
It was an U.S./Saudi/Israeli instigated aggressive war from the start using Al Qaeda and ISIS and others as proxies to try to take down the Assad regime and balkanize Syria. Civil war is the propaganda term used by the imperialists to obfuscate the real reason for war in Syria.
As for a proxy war of Turkey vs U.S., here's what Mattis said yesterday,
"On Sunday, US Defense Secretary James Mattis defended Turkish aggression in Syria, saying
“Turkey is a NATO ally.”
“It’s the only NATO country with an active insurgency inside its borders. And Turkey has legitimate security concerns,” adding:
“Turkish was candid. (It’s) easy to understand” why it’s concerned about conflict in Syria spilling cross-border into its territory.
“They warned us before they launched the aircraft that they were going to do it. We are very alert to it. Our top levels are engaged and we’re working through it.”
The U.S. is concerned about a Turkey Russian alliance however that doesn't point to a proxy war. In fact, U.S. "acquiescence suggests a deal has been struck". NATO is also not condemning Turkey for its actions. Turkey won't attack areas near U.S. positions.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-and-moscow-green-light-turkish-aggressi...
"Depending on Turkey’s success, the zone could be expanded even further, even as far as including Idlib city itself – thus granting the US an opportunity to present it as a second Syrian “capital” much in the way Benghazi was used in Libya during US-led regime change there. There remains, however, the fact that Idlib is openly occupied and administered by Al Qaeda, making the proposal of transforming it into an “opposition capital” particularly dubious."
https://journal-neo.org/2018/01/19/us-turkey-react-as-syrian-forces-move...
Not true for Manbij
If they attack Manbij it'll be near our troops. It'll also be near Syrian troops.
Things will get complicated real fast.
So
this is not the title as written by gjohnsit,
This is the U.S. in a proxy war against the U.S.
A Proxy War With Ourself: Spook vs Soldier
That is so fucking apt, Linda.
Spook vs Soldier: Sponsored by BoozAllen, McDonnellDouglas, and General Electric.
CIA vs DoD in a pitched proxy war. Can the CIA stay under the radar? Will the money stay hidden? What are our allies to do?
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
American military personnel are expendable
as long as they die fighting for the bank balance of our 1%.
No way we allow those dirty RUSSIAN! Commies knock us out of the catbird seat in the Middle East. TPTB would rather kill us all first.
Might be time to bring back the draft. No excuses for not signing up. No deferments for school or bone spurs. Time for all Americans to have some skin in the game. Start drafting with the sons and daughters of the maggots in the House and Senate.
If the 1% want to stop the BRICS nations from taking their privileged place away as the economic/military powerhouse on the planet, they can bleed for it too.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
If there is a draft,
, it should include ONLY the children of the warmongers.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Biden
didn't apologize.
One of the few times Crazy Uncle Joe
said something intelligent. And it was of actual BENEFIT to American plebs. For a change he wasn’t trying to weasel out everyone’s last dime for the credit card industry or send us dirty plebs to prison for a petty crime or smoking a joint.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
way above my paygrade, but all I remember is that
Turkey has always fought its Kurds. Now they attack the Kurds in Northern Parts of Syria. And they do it with GERMAN Tanks (Leopold 2 tanks). This is google translated and miserably so, but I am too miffedl to edit the translations:
Turkey uses German tanks in offensive against Kurdish militia
and
Same shit more detailed
It sucks to be a NATO ally these days. Our Social Democrats come up with weak excuses. Even Sigmar Gabriel is a coward. I think I am as disappointed about our German Social Democrats as you are about your Democratic Party.
Sigh.
German Social Democrats have been failing for a long time
They've been failing since all the way back to the Kapp Putsch.
Let's you and him fight.
The Russians tried to get the Kurds to negotiate a defense pact with the government of Syria, but the Kurds were unable/unwilling to surrender any real autonomy in their enclaves (perhaps under US pressure), so Putin gave slavering Ergogan the green light to attack.
Meanwhile Syria is keeping Kurdish supply lines in Afrin open to help them fight the Turks, so that both sides give each other bloody noses while the Syrian forces clean up Idlib to the south. Eventually, with the Kurds and Turks exhausted from their bloodfeud, the Syrian army will have a much easier time reestablishing control in Afrin.
The bigger picture here of course, is Putin's and Assad's desire to show the Kurds that the US is an unreliable partner who will not help them when TSHTF, and that if they want any hope of a stable future, they'd better ditch the Americans and their Siren song of an independent Kuristan and be satisfied with relative autonomy within a larger Syrian confederation.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
now that's like six-dimensional chess played
with dummies like me. Doesn't work. If things get so complicated, my brain goes blank.
You really believe these bone-headed calcified egomaniacs will ever be exhausted? Nah,I don't believe it.
Yep, that's it. n/t
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."