Trump backs down against Turkey

The Donald may pretend to be tough (I guess it's from his WWE background), but when he comes up against someone who is not playing a game, Donald backs down, just like the bully he his.
In this case it is Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that forced Donald to cower.

Just two weeks ago, this was the news: U.S.-Backed Force Could Cement a Kurdish Enclave in Syria

Then just days later, the Trump Administration changed its tune.

Tillerson told reporters “that entire situation has been mis-portrayed, mis-described, some people misspoke. We are not creating a border security force at all.”

Except Tillerson was lying and everyone knew it.
Erdogan, being an authoritarian bully himself, sensed weakness and pressed the issue.
He attacked the Syrian Kurds and increased the warmongering rhetoric.

US-Turkey tensions mounting surrounding the Turkish invasion of the Syrian Kurdish Afrin District look to be getting much worse, with Turkey’s deputy premier Bekir Bozdag warning that the US is the one risking confrontation by supporting the Kurds.
Bozdag warned the US needs to “review its soldiers and elements giving support to terrorists on the ground,” and that US forces who continue to support the Kurdish YPG, which Turkey considers terrorists “will become a target in this battle.”
The US isn’t believed to have any serious forces inside Afrin District, which Turkey is presently invading. Turkey’s President Erdogan, however, says they will attack Manbij next, and there are a substantial number of US troops deployed there.

When has one NATO country ever threatened war against another NATO country? Ever?

So today Donald backed down.

Turkey said Saturday that Washington has pledged to stop giving arms to YPG Kurdish forces in Syria, as Turkey's offensive against the U.S.-backed group there enters its eight day.
Turkey's presidency said in a statement that U. S. National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster spoke Friday with Ibrahim Kalin, a spokesman for Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. McMaster confirmed in the phone conversation that the U.S. would not give weapons to the YPG militia, the statement said.

On one hand, I'm glad Trump didn't push the issue. It's a war we don't need.
On the other hand, it's a shame that we are abandoning the Kurds yet again. Russia is also abandoning the Kurds. It's the only act of collusion with Russia that Trump has committed.

Lost in all this high-stakes politics is the fact that the Turkish invasion of the Afrin canton has gone nowhere. The heavily outnumbered, out-gunned Kurds have so far fought them to a standstill.
That's in isolated Afrin. What happens if Turkey attacks Manbij?

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k9disc's picture

petty tyrant sense. I completely see a hearkening back to the heady days of Ottoman Empire in that sociopath.

Turkey is not some tinpot dictatorship, though. And they've wound up in a diplo-military fulcrum position, which I think invites a crazy nationalist like Erdogan some kind of unique powers. I'm a little concerned with their actions in their neighborhood.

And wtf with abandoning the Kurds again. Sure there's going to be no blowback there or anything...

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Mark from Queens's picture

@k9disc @k9disc
"a petty tyrant" who is also a backwards, conservative, theocratic loser like his American counterpart. Saw a picture of that douchebag in a camouflage jacket trying to look tough (like Bush). Just like him again, you got the feeling that this vacuous, power-obsessed wimp is partly doing things to do assuage a lack of manliness (as in the whole George Carlin bit about all wars coming down to a pissing contest of whose dick is bigger).

What galls me, having gotten to know some Turks in my life, is that they are secular, open-minded, Western-aligned folks. Two women I know (one who has been a professor at some of the biggest universities here) have talked about the extent to which the govt's there can be oppressive authoritarians, which resulted in both of their fathers serving prison terms (a professor and a military guy).

Remember the Turkish Uprising after OWS, with Occupy Gezi Park? The youth there, I get the feeling, are very anti-gov't. All that energy is still among the population.

Like Bush, Erdogan is a prototype, religion-addled fascist.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

thanatokephaloides's picture

@k9disc

I Watched an Erdogan Speech Recently. It Was Pretty Scary, In a petty tyrant sense. I completely see a hearkening back to the heady days of Ottoman Empire in that sociopath.

Turkey is not some tinpot dictatorship, though.

On the contrary, that's exactly what Erdogan has turned Turkey into. Gone are the civilizing virtues instilled by the greatest Turk in history, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Secularism is being replaced by Islamism. And, as we've been reporting, the Kurds are getting fucked over again.

We, the USA, need to either impose Kurdish independence to repay the noble Peshmerga what we rightly owe them, or get the fuck out of that entire part of the world that costs us so much and returns us less than nothing.

(I tend towards the latter view myself....)

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

divineorder's picture

@thanatokephaloides @thanatokephaloides Shouldn't that be our starting point in any discussion?

US is there illegally, so any Kurdish work for US had illegal basis.

The Resistance is growing, and will eventually stop this!!! /snark

So many people like you and I, thousands of innocent civilians have been killed on the US nickel.

Lee and Gabbard had bills but they have not had enough support. This must be stopped by Congress, or Trump should have a come to Jesus moment and live up to his campaign promises. (haha)

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@divineorder

All illegal, so US should be imposing nada for the Kurds imo. Shouldn't that be our starting point in any discussion?

US is there illegally, so any Kurdish work for US had illegal basis.

As I said, my alignment is to bug out and stay out of the Middle East in its entirety.

A non-interventionist, friendly position with Mexico, Venezuela and Panama would obviate any reason for the US to give half of a rat's ass about the Middle East a'tall.

And exactly that is what I think we should do. With the Middle East, you're always going to end up knifing a friend in the back sooner or later. It's just the kind of place the joint is. "Never mind, Jake, it's the Middle East!"

With the Kurds, we either fuck the Kurds over, fuck the Turks over, or just bug the fuck out.

I say: just bug the fuck out!

Bad

p.s. For signers of the Kellogg-Briand Pact, all war is illegal. Hasn't stopped any wars yet, though.....

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Bollox Ref's picture

@k9disc

I ordered a fez from Turkey some years ago, and received a wonderful note thanking me for my business, along with the hat.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Bollox Ref

Misanthropic bastards like Erdogan don't do Turkey any favours

No joke.

Erdogan seems to be hell-bent on undoing all the good things Ataturk ever did for the country.

Makes me want the Byzantines back!

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Bollox Ref's picture

@thanatokephaloides

Later Zog I of Albania, found Istanbul, under the Ottomans, a thoroughly fascinating, cosmopolitan place, when sent there as a school boy. People from all parts of the globe.

Let us hope that Turkey remains a thoroughly fascinating, cosmopolitan place.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Bollox Ref

Zog I of Albania, found Istanbul, under the Ottomans, a thoroughly fascinating, cosmopolitan place, when sent there as a school boy. People from all parts of the globe.

Been that way ever since Constantine I built the place. Mehmed II just had to walk in and continue, once he conquered it.

Let us hope that Turkey remains a thoroughly fascinating, cosmopolitan place.

Ataturk certainly seemed to want it that way.....

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Amanda Matthews's picture

to look at Trump’s retreat:

On one hand, I'm glad Trump didn't push the issue. It's a war we don't need.
On the other hand, it's a shame that we are abandoning the Kurds yet again. Russia is also abandoning the Kurds. It's the only act of collusion with Russia that Trump has committed.

But the betrayal of the Kurds just seems so shameful, so perfidious, if you will. The only solution to any of this is that we need to get our asses out of the Middle East altogether.

Hahahaha! Like that’s ever gonna happen!

Our betrayal of the Kurds will surely be remembered by ‘‘potential’ allies in the future.

EDIT: never mind

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

divineorder's picture

@Amanda Matthews and I think, damn the Kurds are getting a raw deal. Again.

Then I wake up and remember that the US MIC has been using terrorism mitigation as a ploy to establish itself bases all over the globe. The economics of this only benefit the rich and those employed in military and support of military, and detrimental much of the rest of life on earth.

The Kurds, yeah, hear you, but supporting this US overstep into Syria in any way including 'taking care of the Kurds' seems like a non starter to me.

FWIW there is a movement afoot to confront the US Posture:

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

With ISIS and Al Queda pretty much destroyed as viable organized "armies" to topple Assad, I think our neocon planners were looking to the Kurds to fill that void. With 30,000 Kurds and major US air support, a march on Damascus would look possible. Absolutely stupid to think that Turkey, Iran, and even Iraqi governments would gto along with a heavily armed Kurdish army.

The only other major option looks to be to increase the number of American troops to substantial levels in Syria for regime change.

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@MrWebster
Will they damage the Kurds enough that partitioning Syria is no longer possible?

And here's the big question: what if the Kurds win?

I think the FSA will fail against the Kurds. Well, the Turkish army may be large, but it probably isn't very efficient. Especially after the purge.

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US troops, which seems inevitable, do the two countries choose sides for an intra-NATO war? Turkey wins and picks England to be on its side, we pick Germany, and so on til they finish with Greece and Italy?

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Orwell: Where's the omelette?