Thursday Open Thread 5-3-2018

A brief thought break, then back to regularly scheduled musings on resilience mind set tools and potential scenarios.

Two phrases keep mulling through my mind similar to the tune that plays over and over.

"If we don't fight them over there we'll have to fight them here at home." Could be a Freudian slip. Maybe a peace effort could be sold as self preservation of American culture. If the rest of the world is successful pushing out our military industrial complex (MIC) the focus will be all our neighborhoods, not just around military bases, poor and racially diverse neighborhoods. The push for expanded military in Washington state was a little close to home.

"US Partition of Syria" It is the method used in Korea to keep troops next to China after the division of China proposed between Mao and Chiang Kai-shek was refused. The British colonial powers habitually divided civilizations as a method to maintain disorder for ease of control. If the Confederate States had not lost the Civil War Canada, United States and Confederate States could have been played to create a state of perpetual tension to manipulate from afar. Is this part of the origin of our identity politics?

Did climate change just get real to the TPTB (the powers that be)in Europe and Northeastern United States. Different European royal families, noblemen and their descendants have been working at ruling the world since the 1400's. Climate change has been treated as an event to extract fossile fues as fast as possible and leave the problems to be addressed by others in the far future. Remember the bumper stickers "spending my children's inheritance" that showed up on RV's and campers in the 80's. Changes appearing in the Great Conveyor Belt the warm ocean current in the Atlantic might create the catastrophic climate change event happen within a middle aged person's lifetime.

The reason London and Amsterdam, at latitudes similar to Calgary and Edmonton, have weather like that of Europe is an Atlantic Ocean current driven by heat and salt.

And because the UK, Germany, the Netherlands, Poland, and all of Northern Europe and Scandinavia are at roughly the same latitudes as the area from central Canada to Alaska, the only thing that keeps them warm enough to sustain rich crop yields (unlike Alaska) is the heat distributed to them from the Great Conveyor Belt/AMOC.
...
As NASA’s scientists note on one of the few climate-change web pages the Trumpies haven’t yet removed:

“Without the vast heat that these ocean currents deliver—comparable to the power generation of a million nuclear power plants—Europe's average temperature would likely drop 5 to 10°C (9 to 18°F), and parts of eastern North America would be chilled somewhat less. Such a dip in temperature would be similar to global average temperatures toward the end of the last ice age roughly 20,000 years ago.”

Compare that to the damage a mere 1° C drop in the 1816 Year Without a Summer caused to both Europe and the eastern part of North America in 1816. Civilization—and billions of people—probably would simply no longer survive as we know it.

Just as we make changes in our environment trees help create the conditions they need to thrive. The addition or reduction of of trees on a property changes the micro climates.

Recycling water in the local environment.
"In many tropical forest regions, the moisture supplied by transpiration, which connects water underground at the root level directly to the atmosphere as it is pulled up to the leaves, can contribute as much as moisture evaporated from the ocean that rains back down at a given location—which is normal rainforest recycling," study lead author Gabriel Kooperman said in the press release.

Increasing moisture collected from the atmosphere.

In one foggy night, a single redwood can douse the ground beneath it with the equivalent of a drenching rainstorm and the drops off redwoods can provide as much as half the water coming into a forest over a year.


Create a living fence.

Cost effectiveness of a hedge row vs a fence was discussed last week in the comment section by dance you monster. Takes time, but is doable.

We're still cogitating on the specifics of the hedge planting, but we figure it'll take 6,000 plants at a minimum. A mix of trees and shrubs on the inside of the hedge and barrier shrubs (a barrier physically and visually) on the outside. Bears can't climb shrubs, and deer will not jump where they can't see where they'd land.

To compensate the wildlife for our taking from them a favored smorgasbord the hedge will be filled with wildlife-food-bearing plants. Some will also be people food, like the hazelnuts and aronia and virginia roses. Some will be deer food. Some will be bear food. Some will be bird food. Some will be butterfly food. Much will be bee food. We'll still have all the healthy, fatted wildlife, but with the more damaging elements of that wildlife on the other side of a hedge.

An example of community preparation for potential earthquake disaster in Washington state.
Click on link for video.

Thoughtful discussion of the cost benefits of Living off Grid (maybe none)
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBU4K63t5RY]

and their quest to finding land (steps begin 10:36)
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef6o69i43PA]

Farm Report
Water has been my primary focus this week. Water management has always been at the core of development is this part of the country. The water master showcased in the video was pivotal change from water being used primarily for agriculture to tourist industry and the accompanying real estate development.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C9ye4SyMno Deschutes river https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGAehjwMCM4 Land Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG9wj5rX2T0 Lowe deschutes]

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Redwood stumps sprout new trees if you let them, they are pretty resilient. This is another article from the report I made a comment about the other day, needed to laser in on the one good part. It is referring to re-planted (second growth) trees, not stumps: California’s towering redwoods face uncertain future, report says

There are 7,249 acres of mature second-growth redwoods in place of trees felled in the early 1800s that are now up to 4 feet in diameter and beginning to regain the “habitat qualities” of old-growth forests, Burns said.

“That shows us recovery is possible,” he said.

I'd rather he'd say probable, but I'll take possible. Don't click the link and read the rest, there are no other good parts.

thanks
Happy Thursday!

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studentofearth's picture

@eyo in Oregon and Northern California. He always enjoyed pointing out the trees growing from the remaining stumps and logs when we would travel south. Provided him hope for the future, the motto keep trying.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Lookout's picture

Many people don't understand that water vapor is a greenhouse gas. As we warm we have more vapor in the atmosphere creating a positive feedback...much like the melting ice caps releasing frozen methane. The water cycle is the first global cycle to explain to children (and adults).

I capture water in cisterns in this normally wet climate (52 inches average annual rainfall) because of our typical summer droughts. I've got a good well, but my cistern system gravity feeds to the garden.

As to foreign aggression, my line lately has been "How can we combat terrorism when we bomb civilians all over the world creating terrorists that hate the US? Peace and helping poor countries is the way to combat terrorism." The most effective anti-war message has been the financial one....everyone I talk with is all for stopping the waste of money fomenting war.

The poor people's campaign is gearing up in Alabama to march in Montgomery every Monday for six weeks starting May 14. I plan to attend and offered to play some songs. It's a 3.5 hour drive each way. Other states are involved too -
https://www.poorpeoplescampaign.org/index.php/events/
I sure have been proud of the teachers. The march in AZ has been impressive this week.

Well all the best to all of you.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

The discussions revolving around pay-back on renewable energy investments tend to leave out 2 important factors. One involves the lack of utility investment on infrastructure. Grid-tied systems only work with a functioning grid. Utilities around here work only on a disaster relief program. Maximize profits, capitalize existing structure rather that pre-empting failures.

The second issue is more difficult to quantify. The cost to the environment by continuing to feed the grid with oil, gas and coal sources is very expensive. The qualitative benefits of generating one's own power needs may be more moral than monetized.

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studentofearth's picture

@QMS uses hydroelectric generation and expanding their solar installations. It is more concerned about reliability and customer service than profit margin. One of the criteria just below water rights for property when I was looking was the energy service provider.

Most advertising and discussion locally is the financial benefits of being off-grid. Homesteaders in the past had no monthly utility bills. True, most used no electricity because for-profit eclectic companies would not provide service to areas without sufficient customers. When homesteaders did have access the usage was low because daily habits did not include wasting electricity (can't waste what you do not have). Through the seventies the for profit energy (gas & electric) companies would provide free infrastructure to deliver power to the house, not the lot edge and provide detailed house designs with baseboard heaters in each room. The gas company provided a free delivery line and regulator to a house at least through 1989. Did a switch from wood to natural gas in a home for only the cost of the furnace.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

something in your (and other people's) essays and watch some of the videos you all post, I am struck by how much there is to learn, how many skills there are to perfect to make this a sustainable planet. We could all be so busy, so engaged, so employed, possibly even so happy doing just that. Instead, we waste a colossal amount of precious resources, human intelligence, and skill, in destroying things with all our wars.
Thanks for the OT, I will revisit the vids tonight when I have time.

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studentofearth's picture

@randtntx A self direct life is not about being in control all the time. Sometimes one directs the boat to a strong current and enjoys the ride.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

To me this sounds like President Donald J. Trump will be put up on charges:
Trump reimbursed lawyer for payment to Stormy Daniels, Giuliani says

Michael Avenatti, an attorney for Daniels, said Giuliani’s comments suggested campaign finance violations and possibly, bank fraud and money laundering.

“According to Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen were co-conspirators in a felony,” he said. “Now it is time for justice to be served, and we intend to serve it.”

Either that, or it's the biggest head fake ever to keep the media distracted while some Q knight in shiny armor is gonna do the opposite, make Trump a hero. Huh. I don't know.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@eyo
A person I have some sort of beef with or exposure to (person X) is giving me grief. I call my attorney and say "hey, find out what it takes to make X go away and pay them off, ok". I use my attorney as a cutout so there is no public association between me and X, who is a known sleaze. My attorney, makes a deal for them to go away for 300K. Said attorney then, in due course, says ok, that's 300K for the payoff and a 5K fee, and I pay it. There is, at that point, on those bare facts, no violation of any law, no money laundering and no conspiracy.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

TheOtherMaven's picture

@enhydra lutris

and while they overlap in places, they are not at all the same thing.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

enhydra lutris's picture

and haven't checked ot the vids yet. However, it would seem to me that any land is "off grid" if you don't connect to the grid. Storage systems and inverters are necessary, however.

I have some home-brew water farming ideas I haven't fully pursued yet. One uses a small solar panel to charge a battery (or grid power). This operates through a timer to fire up a peltier junction module which is used to chill a metal mesh panel (hardware cloth?) formed into a spiral and sitting above a catch basin (child's pool?). Have it kick on in the early pre-dawn. The idea is to drive the mesh temp below the dew point and precipitate out airborne water using stored solar. The spiral configuration is to maximize surface area of mesh per area of land occupied by device.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

@enhydra lutris

...using a metal-organic framework, or MOF

http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/04/13/device-pulls-water-from-dry-air-powe...

(This)… is a significant proof of concept.” It’s also one that Yaghi says has plenty of room for improvement. For starters, zirconium costs $150 a kilogram, making water-harvesting devices too expensive to be broadly useful. However, Yaghi says his group has already had early success in designing water-grabbing MOFs that replace zirconium with aluminum, a metal that is 100 times cheaper

.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/new-solar-powered-device-can-pul...

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

studentofearth's picture

@Lookout the information is more robust than the teaser article I had spotted. It has some interesting possible applications.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

studentofearth's picture

@enhydra lutris a livestock water trough. They are made in plastic and metal. The sides are tough enough to attach items by clamping or drilling holes for a fastener. If there is a feed or ranch store near by a quick visit to evaluate appropriateness. A visual of the
smaller plastic models. Your discussion on water collecting has me working on ways to collect the dew run-off from the outbuildings metal roofs. i suppose the nights are too warm in your area for a passive system.

The remarks on "Off Grid" is right on target. If there is a major power interruption my place is off grid. Still need to feed and water stock, plus in winter prevent freezing. It is an attitude and not a geographic location in the wilds.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Lily O Lady's picture

that removes that heat from the warming loop? If so, extensive solar panels might mitigate global warming. Is that possible?

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Lily O Lady the heat sink storage of solar heat transfer systems would require a vast amount of water underground. Think in millions of gallon aquifers hooked up to hundreds of hectares of solar heat absorbers. It may be feasible for urban locations to lower the microclimate, mitigate concrete and glass heat multipliers and provide hot water. But the effects of heating deeply buried water reserves would have to be studied (micro bacterial growth). Perhaps the more effective use of spare solar thermal energy would be in focusing the heat to turn steam turbines, using the energy to pump air through buried pipes, generating cooler air and warming only the ground? Theories abound.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@Lily O Lady via photovoltaics do not include any of the infared, which is the heat part.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lily O Lady's picture

@enhydra lutris

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

studentofearth's picture

@Lily O Lady I think it would be best to mimic or enhance methods the earth already uses. I use heat sinks with stones and black stock tanks filled with water to create warm micro climates. To prevent ground from thawing too early during few hot days of winter I use ground insulation and shade. To extend the season for cool vegetables use shade, transpiration from other plants (low humidity in air increases effectiveness), ground cover to prevent heating soil and moist ground.

Storing cold is one method the earth uses to cool itself. Ice sheets covered with white snow store reflects solar heat from the soil, rocks and bodies of water. The water stored in the ice and ground water (deep aquifers) influences the salinity of water in oceans. Cold water with higher salinity sinks quicker to the deepest parts of the ocean displacing warm water, a current cycle is primed and warm water is pushed upward.

The biggest issue I see with solar panels is the amount of fossil fuels used in gathering material for production, manufacturing and installation. Add in the fossil fuel consumption by workers and their families an effective solar heat-storage solution may increase global warming.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

@Lily O Lady Thanks Lily O. Jumping out of the box on this, but why not use the heat of the sun (thru concentrating parabolic collectors) to steam produce ozone generators. The reason the atmosphere is less able to filter the damaging UV rays of the sun is due to the burning of carbon based fuels. On a much larger scale, I've seen the drilling / production rigs in the gulf of mexico burning off natural gas as a byproduct of tapping the oil. Millions of BTU's just being burned off. We could require them to use that excess energy to run ozone generators, thereby replenishing the ozone they destroy. I've been using ozone generators for years on the boats. Freshens the air and kills bacteria. The technology is widely used to dis-infect water tanks aboard large vessels. The same technology, stepped up by larger scales, may be used to re-invigorate our atmosphere. Slowing global warming. It can be done. Make the extractors replenish what is being destroyed.

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studentofearth's picture

@QMS but the outline is thought provoking. A project could be started with existing technology and waste products to test.

Hope your in a position to share to a wider audience who might be able to make something happen.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

@studentofearth Think big, act with creativity. Can't do it alone -)

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One word: "Photovoltaics". I've been taking an online (free unless you want a certificate) course in photovoltaics from the great website: edx.org. It's really interesting and I think it's the future, despite Trump's slapping tariffs on solar panels and his general hostility to anti-oil technologies ("climate change is a Chinese hoax").

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaCHH5D74Fs]

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Beware the bullshit factories.