to those who'd watched the Iowa debate

...I'd like to ask if this is what you'd seen (minus his spin)? These bits are from Patrick Martin's Jan. 16, 2020 'Mideast war threat overshadows Democratic debate' (all bolds are mine.)

"All six candidates on the stage—including the nominal “socialist” Bernie Sanders, who has been appealing to antiwar sentiment at his campaign rallies—criticized Trump’s actions from the standpoint of advocating a more carefully considered strategy to defend and advance the interests of American imperialism in the Middle East and throughout the world.

Not one of the candidates called the killing of Suleimani what it clearly was—a criminal action by a criminal president. The word “assassination,” initially used by Sanders and Senator Elizabeth Warren in statements following the drone missile attack that killed the Iranian leader near the Baghdad airport, was not uttered in the course of the two-hour debate. Not one candidate so much as mentioned Suleimani’s name.

There was no discussion of the fact that world politics has crossed an ominous line, entering new and uncharted territory, with the most powerful nation in the world killing a top military leader of a country with which it is not at war, and carrying out that action on the soil of a third country in gross violation of its national sovereignty.
.........................................
The other candidates postured as opponents of the war in Iraq in order to chip away at Biden’s frontrunner status, while offering nearly identical foreign policy perspectives. All of them, including Sanders, supported continuing the US military intervention in the Middle East and Central Asia, differing only on the exact mix of special forces, ground troops and naval and air assets they would deploy.

It was characteristic of the right-wing political framework shared by both the candidates and the debate moderators, led by the apologist for imperialist violence Wolf Blitzer of CNN, that there were no follow-up questions on the killing of Suleimani. The discussion of Iran revolved entirely around the claim that the Iranian regime was seeking to develop nuclear weapons.

The candidates indicated, in virtually identical terms, that the US government had to prevent such a development, and that this was one of the highest priorities of American foreign policy—even though Iran has no ongoing nuclear weapons program and is cooperating with the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
.......................................
Sanders followed suit, saying, “We have got to undo what Trump did, bring that coalition together, and make sure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon.”

Former South Bend, Indiana, mayor Pete Buttigieg said, “Ensuring that Iran does not develop nuclear weapons will, of course, be a priority, because it’s such an important part of keeping America safe.”

Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota argued that Trump’s killing of Suleimani risked provoking an Iranian nuclear breakout, saying, “I would not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon.”

Senator Elizabeth Warren and hedge fund billionaire Tom Steyer did not address the Iran nuclear question directly, but each pledged to use military force when US interests were threatened. Warren said that an “imminent threat” was her criterion—the same language used by Trump to justify the assassination of Suleimani.

Steyer said, “I would take military action to protect the lives and safety of American citizens,” while adding that he was in general agreement with Biden, the most adamant defender of American military intervention in the Middle East."

Part of the reason I'm asking is that which nation above all claims that Iran has ever been in search of becoming a Nuclear Bomb Nation aside from Israel and other US client states? Never mind that Iran joined the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1970 and concluded its safeguards agreement with the IAEA in 1974. Iran also signed on to the JCPOA authored by Barack Obomba in 2015, never mind that some say it was designed to fail, Tony Cartalucci for one. The IAEA is still monitoring their (increasing) nuclear enrichment as a way to entice the EU nations to lessen their egregious sanction on Iran.

Now you may not see this as related, but I sure do (h/t RantingRooster). This agitprop has been set in stone in corporate media over the past week, including at the Wall Street Journal verified via their in-house storyful.com):

https://storyful.com/ : ‘The world’s social media intelligence and news agency; We analyze conversations and content across digital platforms — from mainstream to fringe networks — to make sense of what’s happening on social media’.

NZ's stuff.com, etc. and of course: bellingcat.

some excerpts:

“The Times has confirmed that the new video was filmed by a camera on the roof of a building near the village of Bidkaneh, four miles from an Iranian military site. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps’ airspace unit, said that missiles were launched from a base near there.

Flight activity from Tehran’s international airport was normal on the morning of Jan. 8, the flight data showed, and Flight 752 followed its regular route. It was one of 19 planes that took off from Tehran in the hours after Iran launched missiles at military bases in Iraq housing American troops.

The new video was uploaded to YouTube by an Iranian user around 2 a.m. on Tuesday.

The date visible on the footage is “2019-10-17,” not Jan. 8, the day the plane was downed. We believe this is because the camera system is using a Persian calendar, not a Gregorian one. Jan. 8 converts to the 18th of Dey, the 10th month in the Persian calendar. Digitally that would display as 2019-10-18 in the video. One theory is that the discrepancy of one day can be explained by a difference between Persian and Gregorian leap years or months.”

yahoo.com had said the video had come from this dude, as had bellingcat crowd-sourced online investigative journalism):

no bias on his part (location: london):

Who knew that Christopher Miller of the Kyiv Post now works for Buzzfeed?

Always remember and don't ever forget: Iran is Evil and wants nuclear bombs!

(sorry I've messed up the format, my attempt to correct it hasn't helped a hella lot.)

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wendy davis's picture

who seems to believe the WaPO, but it does make sense...

@JZarif Jan 15 E3 claims it has kept its obligations under JCPOA.

✔️Reality Check:

- Zero imports of Iranian oil
- Embargoing of Iranian banks & SWIFT disconnect
- Non-implementation of Blocking Statute
- Exodus of European firms in Iran
- Failure to even sell "exempted" food/medicine

@JZarif Jan 15

Told #Raisina2020 that Iran believes in diplomacy: but not in re-negotiating a UNSC Resolution we agreed on with 6 Governments & EU.

We did not sign an "Obama deal" to go for a "Trump deal" now. Even if we did, who's to say we won't need Biden, Sanders or Warren deal next year?

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This definitely applies to Sanders, Warren Klobuchar and Biden is that they are being briefed by our national security agencies. Whoever wins, they will have to rely on the briefings they're presented with to be true. After Bush 2 I don't think I could trust any of the agencies for a true picture.

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wendy davis's picture

@Snode

(including if it's a D) will be briefed (or their aides will) by US nat-sec agencies. how interesting you reckon that they are now, as well.

may i ask if you'd watched that debate and had seen those bits patrick martin described in real time? i will offer that he'd included this that PriceRip has put up as a transcript of the debate:

'PHILLIP: So Sen. Sanders—Sen. Sanders, I do want to be clear here, you’re saying that you never told Sen. Warren that a woman could not win the election?

SANDERS: That is correct.

PHILLIP: Sen. Warren, what did you think when Sen. Sanders told you a woman could not win the election?

(LAUGHTER)

The audience laughed at Phillip’s brazen disregard for Sanders’ denial. She did not ask Warren to respond to it, but rather continued with the question as it had been drawn up ahead of time, hoping to provoke a conflict along gender lines that would pit the two supposed “left” candidates for the Democratic nomination against each other, to the benefit of their more right-wing opponents, who have the backing of the Democratic Party establishment and the bulk of the corporate media.'

also, did i make a case for why those bullshit new videos are tied to the same tree of 'evil iran must not get the bomb', especially as it was bibi who said he'd convinced DT to pull out of the CPOA to begin with? the buzzfeed kyiv post link was simply priceless as an object lesson!

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@wendy davis
I think they're both being set up to fall. Wall Street want Biden or Buttigeig. Bloom and Styer are too independent. No, didn't watch...CNN debates are just "The View" with better sets and podiums.

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RantingRooster's picture

so take this with a grain of salt. Strictly my “opinion”, nothing more.

I suspect that Bernie absolutely has to “toe the line” somewhat on American imperialism. I don't like it, but running for public office in the US as a “self identified socialist” is no easy task.

Imagine if he were to actually call for the overthrow of all capitalist corporations and the appropriation of their C suite executive's wealth, in a nation that basically has more guns than people.

As an aside, in 2018 I was violently attacked, simply because I support Bernie.

“You're a God Damn socialist! Socialism has never worked anywhere in the world and never will. Socialism killed over 200 million people. Socialism is EVIL.”

I tried to mention that I didn't necessarily disagree, but that China, is basically a “Authoritarian / totalitarian state”, where basically “State Capitalism” is it's economic engine and over the last 30 yrs has economically out performed the US. Ie.. it's not really a “Socialist” country. Not as the “Socialism” as I understand it, where “the people own the means of production and democratically decide how things will work”. I mentioned China's economic growth over the last 20-30 has outperformed the US, is terms of GDP growth.

Just by disagreeing with his “idea” of what socialism was, ie Stalinist USSR, which even Lenin himself was reported to have told Stalin, “all we have created is State Capitalism”, was enough to set him off and about an hour later I was in the emergency room getting x-rays and prescriptions for highly potent “opioid” pain killers, which I declined. (I had called the cops and reported the assault, but of course, they NEVER showed up.) I got a emergency bill for almost $3,000.00

And according to that wonderfully honest news (ahem, cough) network, CNN, is reporting today...

"China's economy grew at its slowest pace in nearly three decades in 2019.

That wasn't unexpected, and Chinese officials insisted that the country's economy will be stable this year. But it might be too early to say the worst has passed, according to analysts.

The 6.1% GDP growth rate for 2019 was near the bottom of Beijing's target range, and sharply down on the previous year's 6.6%. The country also reported that GDP grew by just 6% in the fourth quarter."

Gee, when is the last time America had an economic growth rate of 6%? I'm just curious?

Obviously Bernie is not a “socialist” by most “socialists” definition of socialism. Except that there are so many different definitions of socialism, today for me, socialism is simply two or more people sitting around arguing over what the definition of socialism actually is. (snark)

But what Bernie has done, and which I applaud him for, is change the oberton window, especially about even just the term “socialism”. More people are openly talking about “socialism” then at anytime in recent memory.

Now, think for a moment, I was violently attacked by just an average joe, imagine what Bernie has to contend with, especially from the MIC.

To make a long, convoluted explanation a bit longer, what I think Bernie is doing is basically “playing along somewhat” with the official narrative to keep from, basically, getting assassinated.

Just a thought... Drinks

(PS: thanks for the ht)

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Fuck Israel

boriscleto's picture

@RantingRooster But by any definition he's a moderate Social Democrat.

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" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@boriscleto

is what social democrats used to be called. He is a social democrat. However, he is also using his political career to make "socialism" mean something other than "the devil" and I'm good with that.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@RantingRooster
Once he’s president he can starve the military and intelligence departments... hopefully...

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@RantingRooster
The peak since WWII was 7.6% in 1984, one year and in general was an anomaly. There were three times in 1960s where the GDP growth was barely above 6%. Average GDP growth post WWII has been about 3%. Since 2007 it has averaged under 2%.

The Chinese form of economy is Communist from the top and free market at the bottom. A command economy is far superior to our Capitalist scheme ... if well run. China has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system in the history of the world. China produces 2500 million metric tons of cement annually, the basic material for infrastructure growth. The US produces 88 million metric tons. China has more HSR rail than the rest of the world combined. The US at this point in time has zero in operation. New passenger cars sold in 2018 - China 23,709,00 US 5,304,000. GM sells almost 1,000,000 more cars in China than the US. China sells more electric cars than the rest of the world combined.

China is becoming the largest consumer market in the world. New smartphone products can succeed only if they are successful in China. Yet the oficial GDP numbers in dollars are larger for the US. Hmmm! My opinion is that we have an economy built on nothing, just thrashing and economic rent to make corporate profits. It's amusing that the MSM is bragging that China's GDP growth is "down to" 6%.

China is the only reason that the US economy has not crashed. They keep our economy going by providing inexpensive consumer products, which generate profits and jobs for US importers and merchants.

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

wendy davis's picture

@The Wizard

comment, Wiz. CB would add that china leads the world in solar panel installations and manufacturing, although i'll add that one of the chokeholds for storage batteries is lithium and another rare mineral.

china also owns boatloads of amerikan debt, the balance says:

'The U.S. debt to China is $1.10 trillion as of October 2019.1 That's 26.7% of the $4.12 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $23 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself.

China has the second-greatest amount of U.S. debt held by a foreign country. Japan rose to first place in June 2019. As of October 2019, it owned $1.17 trillion. It's followed by the United Kingdom at $334.1 billion, Brazil at $298.6 billion, and Ireland at $286.6 billion.'

in the US, any number of economic bubbles are poised to burst, round and round she goes, where she'll stop...we likely know.

on edit: china's huawei 5g smart phone has the advantage of not being able to be accessed by the NSA, or so i've read. did canada ever allow kidnapped Huawei’s CFO Meng Wanzhou to leave?

i will add as well that china is outraged over the assassination of qassem soleimani, and rightfully calls ours a terrorist nation.

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RantingRooster's picture

@The Wizard Thanks Drinks

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Fuck Israel

edg's picture

@The Wizard

Passenger vehicle sales in 2018 in the US were 12 million SUVs, etc. plus 5.3 million cars. Chinese sales were 9.8 million SUVs, etc. plus 11.6 million cars.

The correct figure to use for accurate comparison is light vehicle sales, which excludes commercial vehicles but includes sedans, coupes, pickup trucks, SUVs, crossovers, and similar vehicles. Therefore, the actual figures for 2018 are:

China - 23.27 million light vehicles
US - 17.27 million light vehicles

So basically, there were about 6 million more sold in China than in the US.

Other factors to consider include China's population is 4X larger than the US while the percentage of passenger vehicles per capita is only 20% compared to 44% in the US.

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wendy davis's picture

@RantingRooster

one speculative comment, amigo, lol. but bernie knows he's a reform capitalist, which is fine, but yes, he's opened the window to the idea of socialism and yes, there are many different definitions and sort of socialism around the world, but at it's most basic (to me) it's bottom up democracy, and any profits from resources and labor should be spread for the good of all the citizens.

sorry to hear you were beat up for that thug's believing that your support of bernie meant you supported actual socialism, and that the po-po never arrived to give you a hand. that's fucked up.

and i have heard the theme that if bernie said what he truly believes, 'they'd JFK him!' and he's been treated rottenly, no doubt about it, as a hundred diaries here have amply demonstrated.

i was speaking about the rest of the field as well, wondering if martin's take was fairly accurate. but for me, i like verisimilitude, as in: watch not what thy say (even on twitter) but how they vote. the one i remember only too well is that he and 97 other senators voted for 'the defense of nato act' that was spawned by a NYT piece whisper campaign by anonymous Trump generals saying that Boss Tweet really did mean to leave Nato (thus the africom desk) in july of 2018. if there's any more Imperialist a body, i can't think of it.

thanks for making your case, though, RantingRooster. ; )

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snoopydawg's picture

@RantingRooster

I got accused of being a communist. And here of all places.

“You're a God Damn socialist! Socialism has never worked anywhere in the world and never will. Socialism killed over 200 million people. Socialism is EVIL.”

I don't get why people think that the government has no role in making our lives better. If anyone should be called socialists it's congress and state governments that give huge tax breaks and subsidies to corporations. And lots of people don't think that is wrong cuz "they are the job creators."

And "government should not be involved in health care cuz it." Funny though that it's involved in Medicaid, Medicare and veterans health care. Other than that....

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

edg's picture

@snoopydawg

It's appalling that anyone here would spout such garbage and swear at you. The fact is that socialism have never been given a fair chance to work anywhere in the world. Any time it's tried, Capitalists throw trillions of dollars against it and engineer coups and wars to ensure it doesn't succeed.

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lotlizard's picture

@edg  
and it failed because it stifled and crushed people, not just because of the capitalist world’s machinations.

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edg's picture

@lotlizard

It was functionally communist, not socialist. It was a dictatorship. It was occupied territory of the Soviet Union. It functioned as a buffer zone against the West. Marxism–Leninism and the Russian language were compulsory in schools. And the US spent boatloads of money to undermine and contain it as well as keeping American troops and weapons on the border and in Berlin.

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lotlizard's picture

@edg  
In correspondence from authorities or among party members, in place of the German equivalent of “Sincerely,” “Regards,” etc. at the end of letters, the usual form of closing was Mit sozialistichem Gruß (“With socialist greetings”).

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edg's picture

@lotlizard

...and the United States calls itself a democracy.

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wendy davis's picture

@gjohnsit

on edit: 21 thumbs?

as the Quakers might posit: 'the sense of the room'. at least dore doesn't have that stupid hounds-tooth fedora on; a small blessing.

er...thanks for contributing, gjonsit?

guess that's the reason this thread tanked so mightily.

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wendy davis's picture

and i apologize that i hadn't maade my original case per 'israel must never have a nuclear bomb' and these bullshit videoes claiming 'iran used two missiles to down the ukrainan jetliner, even with 'which organization verified them', etc.

as i'd noted above, now that christopher miller of the kyiv post (yanno, in ukraine?)...let me unwind it a bit.

The Iranian Who Obtained The Video Of Two Missiles Striking The Ukrainian Plane Has Gone Into Hiding, jan. 15

​“​I didn’t think it would change everything​,” the Iranian man who posted the video on YouTube told BuzzFeed News.

KYIV — An Iranian man who obtained security camera footage ​showing​ that two missiles fired by Iranian military forces brought down ​a Ukrainian airliner near Tehran last week ​fears being arrested by authorities and has gone into hiding, the man’s friend who published the now-viral video told BuzzFeed News.

The two-minute-long video, verified by BuzzFeed News, provides the most complete visual account yet of the downing of Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 on Jan. 8. It’s the only piece of footage to show both missiles being launched and striking the Boeing 737, which is seen falling from the sky over the village of Khalaj Abad moments later. Other videos published online have shown the plane being struck by one missile before crashing to the ground in a ball of flames, killing all 176 people on board.

Iran initially blamed the downing on technical problems aboard the plane but later admitted that its military had accidentally shot it down, and that the airliner had been mistaken for a cruise missile. Despite the admission, Tehran has been careful not to release too many details about how the incident unfolded and hasn’t confessed to striking the plane twice. Its military is now apparently going after citizens who’ve published videos online that have helped to provide a more complete picture of what happened.

A person who posted a video online last week showing one of the missiles striking the plane was taken into custody by Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, according to the semi-official Fars News Agency. The man who uploaded that video later claimed that the wrong man was arrested and his source who provided the video was safe.
............................
“​I didn’t think it would change everything​,” said Javad, who provided the original video file to BuzzFeed News.​

Javad, an Iranian with a love of social media and DIY videos living near Tehran, told BuzzFeed News he uploaded the security camera footage of the two missiles to YouTube in the early hours of Jan. 14. He said a friend had obtained and then sent him the video after realizing its significance.

But shortly after he uploaded the video, it spread across social media and was verified and written about by the New York Times.

News of the arrest of a man who filmed the first missile video came around the same time the video Javad uploaded went viral. He said that arrest prompted his friend to delete his social media profiles and go underground.

“Now he has deleted his accounts and doesn’t want to be shown, for security reasons​,” Javad said.​ "

aaaand...the fars news link rather handily went to:

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wendy davis's picture

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