to those who'd watched the Iowa debate
...I'd like to ask if this is what you'd seen (minus his spin)? These bits are from Patrick Martin's Jan. 16, 2020 'Mideast war threat overshadows Democratic debate' (all bolds are mine.)
"All six candidates on the stage—including the nominal “socialist” Bernie Sanders, who has been appealing to antiwar sentiment at his campaign rallies—criticized Trump’s actions from the standpoint of advocating a more carefully considered strategy to defend and advance the interests of American imperialism in the Middle East and throughout the world.
Not one of the candidates called the killing of Suleimani what it clearly was—a criminal action by a criminal president. The word “assassination,” initially used by Sanders and Senator Elizabeth Warren in statements following the drone missile attack that killed the Iranian leader near the Baghdad airport, was not uttered in the course of the two-hour debate. Not one candidate so much as mentioned Suleimani’s name.
There was no discussion of the fact that world politics has crossed an ominous line, entering new and uncharted territory, with the most powerful nation in the world killing a top military leader of a country with which it is not at war, and carrying out that action on the soil of a third country in gross violation of its national sovereignty.
.........................................
The other candidates postured as opponents of the war in Iraq in order to chip away at Biden’s frontrunner status, while offering nearly identical foreign policy perspectives. All of them, including Sanders, supported continuing the US military intervention in the Middle East and Central Asia, differing only on the exact mix of special forces, ground troops and naval and air assets they would deploy.It was characteristic of the right-wing political framework shared by both the candidates and the debate moderators, led by the apologist for imperialist violence Wolf Blitzer of CNN, that there were no follow-up questions on the killing of Suleimani. The discussion of Iran revolved entirely around the claim that the Iranian regime was seeking to develop nuclear weapons.
The candidates indicated, in virtually identical terms, that the US government had to prevent such a development, and that this was one of the highest priorities of American foreign policy—even though Iran has no ongoing nuclear weapons program and is cooperating with the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
.......................................
Sanders followed suit, saying, “We have got to undo what Trump did, bring that coalition together, and make sure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon.”
Former South Bend, Indiana, mayor Pete Buttigieg said, “Ensuring that Iran does not develop nuclear weapons will, of course, be a priority, because it’s such an important part of keeping America safe.”Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota argued that Trump’s killing of Suleimani risked provoking an Iranian nuclear breakout, saying, “I would not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon.”
Senator Elizabeth Warren and hedge fund billionaire Tom Steyer did not address the Iran nuclear question directly, but each pledged to use military force when US interests were threatened. Warren said that an “imminent threat” was her criterion—the same language used by Trump to justify the assassination of Suleimani.
Steyer said, “I would take military action to protect the lives and safety of American citizens,” while adding that he was in general agreement with Biden, the most adamant defender of American military intervention in the Middle East."
Part of the reason I'm asking is that which nation above all claims that Iran has ever been in search of becoming a Nuclear Bomb Nation aside from Israel and other US client states? Never mind that Iran joined the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1970 and concluded its safeguards agreement with the IAEA in 1974. Iran also signed on to the JCPOA authored by Barack Obomba in 2015, never mind that some say it was designed to fail, Tony Cartalucci for one. The IAEA is still monitoring their (increasing) nuclear enrichment as a way to entice the EU nations to lessen their egregious sanction on Iran.
Now you may not see this as related, but I sure do (h/t RantingRooster). This agitprop has been set in stone in corporate media over the past week, including at the Wall Street Journal verified via their in-house storyful.com):
https://storyful.com/ : ‘The world’s social media intelligence and news agency; We analyze conversations and content across digital platforms — from mainstream to fringe networks — to make sense of what’s happening on social media’.
NZ's stuff.com, etc. and of course: bellingcat.
Exclusive: Security camera footage verified by the New York Times confirms that 2 missiles, fired 30 seconds apart from an Iranian military site, hit the Ukrainian planehttps://t.co/Ab8iYKiHVR
— The New York Times (@nytimes) January 14, 2020
some excerpts:
“The Times has confirmed that the new video was filmed by a camera on the roof of a building near the village of Bidkaneh, four miles from an Iranian military site. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps’ airspace unit, said that missiles were launched from a base near there.
Flight activity from Tehran’s international airport was normal on the morning of Jan. 8, the flight data showed, and Flight 752 followed its regular route. It was one of 19 planes that took off from Tehran in the hours after Iran launched missiles at military bases in Iraq housing American troops.
The new video was uploaded to YouTube by an Iranian user around 2 a.m. on Tuesday.
The date visible on the footage is “2019-10-17,” not Jan. 8, the day the plane was downed. We believe this is because the camera system is using a Persian calendar, not a Gregorian one. Jan. 8 converts to the 18th of Dey, the 10th month in the Persian calendar. Digitally that would display as 2019-10-18 in the video. One theory is that the discrepancy of one day can be explained by a difference between Persian and Gregorian leap years or months.”
yahoo.com had said the video had come from this dude, as had bellingcat crowd-sourced online investigative journalism):
The footage i've got from a source - the moment the missile hit the #Flight752. I can't verify the video yet! but please let me know if you find anything. I'm in contact with the person who send this video to see if I can get a version of video which has a meta data on it pic.twitter.com/HtesW5uecB
— Nariman (@NarimanGharib) January 9, 2020
no bias on his part (location: london):
UNBELIEVABLE...
"REVENGE" the last time you've tried to get a revenge you shoot down a passenger plane in Iran. F**K off https://t.co/pjoxLJdGK3
— Nariman (@NarimanGharib) January 14, 2020
Hmmm. I still don't understand why they are arresting these
innocent people?! - A few days ago they have arrested the wrong person who they thought he/she sent that video to me and now THIS: https://t.co/T1xDcnpGIW via @ChristopherJM #PS752— Nariman (@NarimanGharib) January 16, 2020
Who knew that Christopher Miller of the Kyiv Post now works for Buzzfeed?
Always remember and don't ever forget: Iran is Evil and wants nuclear bombs!
(sorry I've messed up the format, my attempt to correct it hasn't helped a hella lot.)
Comments
from the Iranian FM:
who seems to believe the WaPO, but it does make sense...
@JZarif Jan 15 E3 claims it has kept its obligations under JCPOA.
✔️Reality Check:
- Zero imports of Iranian oil
- Embargoing of Iranian banks & SWIFT disconnect
- Non-implementation of Blocking Statute
- Exodus of European firms in Iran
- Failure to even sell "exempted" food/medicine
@JZarif Jan 15
Told #Raisina2020 that Iran believes in diplomacy: but not in re-negotiating a UNSC Resolution we agreed on with 6 Governments & EU.
We did not sign an "Obama deal" to go for a "Trump deal" now. Even if we did, who's to say we won't need Biden, Sanders or Warren deal next year?
What has always bothered me
This definitely applies to Sanders, Warren Klobuchar and Biden is that they are being briefed by our national security agencies. Whoever wins, they will have to rely on the briefings they're presented with to be true. After Bush 2 I don't think I could trust any of the agencies for a true picture.
i agree that whoever wins,
(including if it's a D) will be briefed (or their aides will) by US nat-sec agencies. how interesting you reckon that they are now, as well.
may i ask if you'd watched that debate and had seen those bits patrick martin described in real time? i will offer that he'd included this that PriceRip has put up as a transcript of the debate:
also, did i make a case for why those bullshit new videos are tied to the same tree of 'evil iran must not get the bomb', especially as it was bibi who said he'd convinced DT to pull out of the CPOA to begin with? the buzzfeed kyiv post link was simply priceless as an object lesson!
No disagreement there
I think they're both being set up to fall. Wall Street want Biden or Buttigeig. Bloom and Styer are too independent. No, didn't watch...CNN debates are just "The View" with better sets and podiums.
I'm speculating here
so take this with a grain of salt. Strictly my “opinion”, nothing more.
I suspect that Bernie absolutely has to “toe the line” somewhat on American imperialism. I don't like it, but running for public office in the US as a “self identified socialist” is no easy task.
Imagine if he were to actually call for the overthrow of all capitalist corporations and the appropriation of their C suite executive's wealth, in a nation that basically has more guns than people.
As an aside, in 2018 I was violently attacked, simply because I support Bernie.
“You're a God Damn socialist! Socialism has never worked anywhere in the world and never will. Socialism killed over 200 million people. Socialism is EVIL.”
I tried to mention that I didn't necessarily disagree, but that China, is basically a “Authoritarian / totalitarian state”, where basically “State Capitalism” is it's economic engine and over the last 30 yrs has economically out performed the US. Ie.. it's not really a “Socialist” country. Not as the “Socialism” as I understand it, where “the people own the means of production and democratically decide how things will work”. I mentioned China's economic growth over the last 20-30 has outperformed the US, is terms of GDP growth.
Just by disagreeing with his “idea” of what socialism was, ie Stalinist USSR, which even Lenin himself was reported to have told Stalin, “all we have created is State Capitalism”, was enough to set him off and about an hour later I was in the emergency room getting x-rays and prescriptions for highly potent “opioid” pain killers, which I declined. (I had called the cops and reported the assault, but of course, they NEVER showed up.) I got a emergency bill for almost $3,000.00
And according to that wonderfully honest news (ahem, cough) network, CNN, is reporting today...
Gee, when is the last time America had an economic growth rate of 6%? I'm just curious?
Obviously Bernie is not a “socialist” by most “socialists” definition of socialism. Except that there are so many different definitions of socialism, today for me, socialism is simply two or more people sitting around arguing over what the definition of socialism actually is. (snark)
But what Bernie has done, and which I applaud him for, is change the oberton window, especially about even just the term “socialism”. More people are openly talking about “socialism” then at anytime in recent memory.
Now, think for a moment, I was violently attacked by just an average joe, imagine what Bernie has to contend with, especially from the MIC.
To make a long, convoluted explanation a bit longer, what I think Bernie is doing is basically “playing along somewhat” with the official narrative to keep from, basically, getting assassinated.
Just a thought...
(PS: thanks for the ht)
C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote
Bernie call himself a Democratic Socialist
But by any definition he's a moderate Social Democrat.
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
Right, because "democratic socialist"
is what social democrats used to be called. He is a social democrat. However, he is also using his political career to make "socialism" mean something other than "the devil" and I'm good with that.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
This is my suspicion as well
Once he’s president he can starve the military and intelligence departments... hopefully...
US GDP Growth rate
The peak since WWII was 7.6% in 1984, one year and in general was an anomaly. There were three times in 1960s where the GDP growth was barely above 6%. Average GDP growth post WWII has been about 3%. Since 2007 it has averaged under 2%.
The Chinese form of economy is Communist from the top and free market at the bottom. A command economy is far superior to our Capitalist scheme ... if well run. China has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system in the history of the world. China produces 2500 million metric tons of cement annually, the basic material for infrastructure growth. The US produces 88 million metric tons. China has more HSR rail than the rest of the world combined. The US at this point in time has zero in operation. New passenger cars sold in 2018 - China 23,709,00 US 5,304,000. GM sells almost 1,000,000 more cars in China than the US. China sells more electric cars than the rest of the world combined.
China is becoming the largest consumer market in the world. New smartphone products can succeed only if they are successful in China. Yet the oficial GDP numbers in dollars are larger for the US. Hmmm! My opinion is that we have an economy built on nothing, just thrashing and economic rent to make corporate profits. It's amusing that the MSM is bragging that China's GDP growth is "down to" 6%.
China is the only reason that the US economy has not crashed. They keep our economy going by providing inexpensive consumer products, which generate profits and jobs for US importers and merchants.
Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.
brillinant as well as eductional
comment, Wiz. CB would add that china leads the world in solar panel installations and manufacturing, although i'll add that one of the chokeholds for storage batteries is lithium and another rare mineral.
china also owns boatloads of amerikan debt, the balance says:
in the US, any number of economic bubbles are poised to burst, round and round she goes, where she'll stop...we likely know.
on edit: china's huawei 5g smart phone has the advantage of not being able to be accessed by the NSA, or so i've read. did canada ever allow kidnapped Huawei’s CFO Meng Wanzhou to leave?
i will add as well that china is outraged over the assassination of qassem soleimani, and rightfully calls ours a terrorist nation.
Great info
Thanks
C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote
China vs US auto sales needs correction
Passenger vehicle sales in 2018 in the US were 12 million SUVs, etc. plus 5.3 million cars. Chinese sales were 9.8 million SUVs, etc. plus 11.6 million cars.
The correct figure to use for accurate comparison is light vehicle sales, which excludes commercial vehicles but includes sedans, coupes, pickup trucks, SUVs, crossovers, and similar vehicles. Therefore, the actual figures for 2018 are:
China - 23.27 million light vehicles
US - 17.27 million light vehicles
So basically, there were about 6 million more sold in China than in the US.
Other factors to consider include China's population is 4X larger than the US while the percentage of passenger vehicles per capita is only 20% compared to 44% in the US.
you've packed a lot into
one speculative comment, amigo, lol. but bernie knows he's a reform capitalist, which is fine, but yes, he's opened the window to the idea of socialism and yes, there are many different definitions and sort of socialism around the world, but at it's most basic (to me) it's bottom up democracy, and any profits from resources and labor should be spread for the good of all the citizens.
sorry to hear you were beat up for that thug's believing that your support of bernie meant you supported actual socialism, and that the po-po never arrived to give you a hand. that's fucked up.
and i have heard the theme that if bernie said what he truly believes, 'they'd JFK him!' and he's been treated rottenly, no doubt about it, as a hundred diaries here have amply demonstrated.
i was speaking about the rest of the field as well, wondering if martin's take was fairly accurate. but for me, i like verisimilitude, as in: watch not what thy say (even on twitter) but how they vote. the one i remember only too well is that he and 97 other senators voted for 'the defense of nato act' that was spawned by a NYT piece whisper campaign by anonymous Trump generals saying that Boss Tweet really did mean to leave Nato (thus the africom desk) in july of 2018. if there's any more Imperialist a body, i can't think of it.
thanks for making your case, though, RantingRooster. ; )
Welcomed to the club
I got accused of being a communist. And here of all places.
I don't get why people think that the government has no role in making our lives better. If anyone should be called socialists it's congress and state governments that give huge tax breaks and subsidies to corporations. And lots of people don't think that is wrong cuz "they are the job creators."
And "government should not be involved in health care cuz it." Funny though that it's involved in Medicaid, Medicare and veterans health care. Other than that....
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
That's sad.
It's appalling that anyone here would spout such garbage and swear at you. The fact is that socialism have never been given a fair chance to work anywhere in the world. Any time it's tried, Capitalists throw trillions of dollars against it and engineer coups and wars to ensure it doesn't succeed.
OTOH, East Germany’s branding was Socialist™ from top to bottom
and it failed because it stifled and crushed people, not just because of the capitalist world’s machinations.
East Germany is hardly a good example.
It was functionally communist, not socialist. It was a dictatorship. It was occupied territory of the Soviet Union. It functioned as a buffer zone against the West. Marxism–Leninism and the Russian language were compulsory in schools. And the US spent boatloads of money to undermine and contain it as well as keeping American troops and weapons on the border and in Berlin.
All true — yet the culture still branded itself as Socialist™
In correspondence from authorities or among party members, in place of the German equivalent of “Sincerely,” “Regards,” etc. at the end of letters, the usual form of closing was Mit sozialistichem Gruß (“With socialist greetings”).
Yes...
...and the United States calls itself a democracy.
Rogan: "I like Tulsi and Bernie. Everyone else can eat shit"
lol; that got ten thumbs!
on edit: 21 thumbs?
as the Quakers might posit: 'the sense of the room'. at least dore doesn't have that stupid hounds-tooth fedora on; a small blessing.
er...thanks for contributing, gjonsit?
guess that's the reason this thread tanked so mightily.
closing time for me,
and i apologize that i hadn't maade my original case per 'israel must never have a nuclear bomb' and these bullshit videoes claiming 'iran used two missiles to down the ukrainan jetliner, even with 'which organization verified them', etc.
as i'd noted above, now that christopher miller of the kyiv post (yanno, in ukraine?)...let me unwind it a bit.
The Iranian Who Obtained The Video Of Two Missiles Striking The Ukrainian Plane Has Gone Into Hiding, jan. 15
aaaand...the fars news link rather handily went to:
i'll add: