Thomas Frank, Mark Warner, SS, the Rust Belt, and My Personal Frustration

I posted this on my Facebook this morning, and I wanted to share it with a wider audience. I know that nothing I am saying here is news to anyone here. I just wanted to share my frustration(s) and a personal anecdote.

This morning I have been thinking about the Democratic Party elites and how they have, still are, and are trying to further betray the working class people of America.

Thomas Frank in a column in the Guardian explaining why he thinks that working class (especially whites) people are supporting Donald Trump for President, and it isn’t because they are racist. There are legitimate reasons for these people to be angry, Donald Trump just happens to do what the rich do: pit the, justifiably, angry against those with even less power (specifically non-whites).

Confirming much of what Frank’s criticism of the Democratic Party’s agenda has become, VA Senator Mark Warner is suggesting the business community needs to get more involved in politics . He talked about how disappointed he is that he can’t get the recommendations of the Simpson-Bowles (aka Catfood Commission) passed.

These two stories got me thinking of a conversation that I had with a friend’s husband a few years ago. The guy is a staunch Democrat, but at the same time, he represents the constituency that the Democratic Party has been courting for decades according to Thomas Frank’s new book, "Listen Liberal: Whatever Happened to the Party of the People." I don’t know much about his background, but given our conversation, it is pretty safe to assume he does not come from a working class background. As he is socially liberal, we were able to agree on many things. When the subject switched to Social Security, our views became quite a bit different. Like Mark Warner, this gentleman, works in an industry where he sits at a desk all day (he is a civil engineer/urban planner), advocated policies such as raising the retirement age and the age in which people would become eligible for Social Security. Coming from the rust belt and having a family who are all blue collar types, I had to disagree with him. I am of the opinion that blue collar workers shouldn’t work until age 65. I believe that we should lower the retirement age, not increase it! By age 65, many are incapable of doing the work which allowed them to make a living. Many of these people, and this is based on my own familiarity, are not management types. They are not the kinds of people who could go to college and succeed. They are simple people with simple lives and simple aspirations. They work in back-breaking jobs. They should be allowed to leave their industries so that they may enjoy retirement and without constant pain. They shouldn’t have to work long after they are incapable of doing anything that allows for a living wage. The idea that a person who slaved a way as a welder, mechanic, or field worker should work until age 70 is insulting. It is degrading to these people. It is inhumane.

It is for reasons such as these, that I don’t support the Democratic Party. Mark Warner is not an outlier, he may be a little to the right of the Party, but he is mostly a mainstream Democrat. His words say much. His views are dangerous and destructive to the working class. But guess who else shares these kinds of views? The economic teams of President Obama, and presumptive Democratic Party nominee Hillary Clinton!! Not opposing politicians like Warner, Obama, Clinton (and their allies) would make me a hypocrite.

My experiences growing up in the rustbelt has informed my politics greatly. Economically, I am for a living wage for all and true opportunity to succeed despite one’s birth. If the private sector is unable to assist these people, it is up to us, through our representative government, to assist in taking care of those that are unable to take care of themselves. Socially, I am for an inclusive society. I grew up in a primarily white area as a non-white person. I faced bigotry from those around me. While I do not come from a disadvantaged background, I can relate to some of the challenges that the ethnically disadvantaged non-white people deal with.

I guess I am writing this out of frustration because the Republican Party’s presumptive nominee is a hateful bigot who comes from business community. A community where the only goal is making money. Given that he was born into money and has never had a need (or want) that went unfulfilled, there is no way that he can relate to the needs of the working class. The Democratic Party’s presumptive nominee is political opportunist who is indebted to people like Donald Trump. She takes money from people, and gives them access, who have no interest in the working classes as they are essentially socially liberal Donald Trumps. She has been at the highest echelons of our society for so long, I know that she too has no idea how to relate to the working class. I guess my point is, that we have two (non) choices on economic issues. Neither candidate will do anything to help those that get their hand dirty for a living.

It is out of this frustration which pushes me out of voting for "viable" candidates chosen by private organizations.

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Haikukitty's picture

But I don't think ANYONE should have to work until 65 or 70. 59/60 was what it should have stayed.

Even at a desk job, its not fair to expect people to spend the final years of their lives slaving away somewhere.

My husband does manual work, he's perfectly capable of doing a desk job, he doesn't want to. And at 40 he's already feeling the effects of that kind of work every day on his body. People should be allowed to have some dignity - how much work is enough to squeeze out of the peons?

Its incredibly frustrating that there are NO politicians who are looking out for the regular working class people, except Bernie and a handful of others trying to get elected. All of the DNC Dems need to go, or we need a new party, pronto.

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martianexpatriate's picture

with your position. The only concern that I have is that I get the sense that even a few progressives seem to have fallen for the idea that whatever is good for big business is good for the economy. (Maybe not you, I have no idea.) In the truest sense, what Warner represents is neoliberalism, and is bad economics. It is provably wrong.

The middle class has lost so much income that all the money is being held in the accounts of the very rich, who spend very little. In a sense, we have undone what created America, the birth of the middle class. We became a superpower when an entire class of people gained income and bought homes and cars after World War II. If what these people say were true, then all that would have been a bad thing.

Every time they point at a bottom line and say that we must cut costs, they are damaging the economy. That's literally true, but everybody has bought into this crap now. Some because the media repeats it all the time, and others because their donors pay them a great deal of money.

An increase in the federal minimum wage would be ideal not only because it would help us, but because it would prove trickle down economics is bullshit. Everybody would look at the minimum wage increase with relief, and in a few years you would notice unemployment going down because people have money to spend on business again. Its not just the material good it would do, it's the fact that everybody would notice it.

It needs to happen.

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Haikukitty's picture

This endless cost-cutting, but only on the poor and middle-class, needs to stop.

I don't think an increase in the minimum wage would fix our problems, but it would certainly help a lot of people in a lot of ways, and start to put some money back in the pockets of those who need it most.

I'm not convinced it would do much to help the middle-class right away, we need some serious taxes on the rich for that, as well as EXPANDING social security, among other things.

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martianexpatriate's picture

but we need to make a very public point, and the minimum wage is one way to do it because it's something people would be able to remember. They would remember the time their paycheck went up, and then notice that all this garbage that's been said about unemployment growing worse didn't happen.

We have to do something to kill the idea in so many people's minds that what is good for big business is good for everyone. We are part of the economy too, it's not all about them.

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gulfgal98's picture

I believe that we are the economy if the economy functioned in the most basic way it should and that is businesses provide goods and services to meet consumer demand. What we are seeing is an economy that has become globalized and has a huge rent seeking component to it.

My second thought applies to raising the minimum wage. One benefit beyond putting more money in the pockets of the lowest wage earners is that Social Security tax is based upon a % of earnings. If a large portion of American workers see their wages increased, they are also contributing more to the Social Security Trust Fund. It is another way to strengthen the Trust Fund.

BTW, I am not an economist so if I am wrong I welcome corrections to these basic assumptions of mine. Wink

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

And agree with you about retirement. I used to work with coal miners. One of several reasons for the drug problem in Appalachia is people forced to go on working at physically demanding jobs with chronic pain from prior injuries and/or other health conditions.

I would add that lowering the retirement age would be beneficial in other professions as well. I've noticed some white-collar workers and managers may still be at the top of their game in their 60s, but many others find themelves slowing down. Less efficient, sometimes with health issues, they may be sidelined by layoffs and then unable to find halfway decent employment, with impoverishment following. Staying on the job, they may block the ladderway for the next generation. If people want go on working into their 70s, good for them, but options for earlier retirement with dignity and security would be a good thing for society.

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Euterpe2

cardboardurinal's picture

also help the younger generation. Many have been set back since a lot of older people continued working after the recession instead of retiring, so jobs that normally would have opened up did not.

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give up that job due to the medical insurance. I have a friend at work who admits she's only there for the insurance now, and has some pretty heavy duty health issues in her either very late 50's or early 60's.

Thomas Frank is just great, I've read both the latest one and then went back and read "What's the Matter With Kansas" about the Koch machine and just how that state was turned into a conservative hell. But "Listen, Liberal" is the truly damning one and goes into the Clinton years. I think that is the one where I read that Bill was real close to privatizing SS but for the Lewinsky scandal. Either Frank or Hitchen's "No One Left to Lie To: The Triangulations of William Jefferson Clinton" which was picked up by the right wing when first published but is anything but a right wing nut job screed. He makes a good case for the Clinton's being a big fat cancer on the Dem party, but they aren't the only ones.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Haikukitty's picture

He talks about it in his speeches promoting the book - how Monica saved us from a done-deal SS gutting, and deserves a medal.

I should probably read the book, I just get so angry when I read about it.

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and I know I read WAY too much. And it will make you angry. I sit here and rail to anyone within earshot if someone is unfortunate enough to be in the room when I'm reading one of my books. That and Hitchens' "No One Left to Lie To" provided several good hours of railing.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Unabashed Liberal's picture

from a blog post I made several years ago; although, the original Congressional testimony has been pulled, as have the DLC archives.

***NOTE: Edited to correct signature line--HTML exposed***

The Clinton Foundation bought the DLC archives when it folded in 2011. I posted, and linked to the late DLC President's Congressional testimony a couple of times at DKos.

Anyway, Edward Gresser, President of the DLC, testified on June 30, 2011, before the Bowles-Simpson Fiscal Commission--that Social Security should be reformed so that Americans could work 'into the eighth decade of their life.'

The portion in quotes is verbatim--a declaration that I'll never forget!

As a matter of fact, OPM, the Office of Personnel Management, which is the Human Resources Agency for the federal government, implemented a 'Phased Retirement' in November of 2015.

(I wrote about this in our Google Group.)

This 'reform' is projected to save billions, in time. On paper, it might sound good for those who want/need to continue working.

Obviously, though, it could have a detrimental affect on younger generations.

BTW, this same model is being bandied about for Social Security.

Bowles-Simpson's proposal also recommended 'phased retirement' for Social Security beneficiaries.

So, I suspect that the OPM program is sorta a test pilot program (for the SSA).

I am grateful that I have already filed for my federal retirement. I'm really concerned for future generations, 'cause every Ombudsman bill has more cuts to so-called 'entitlements.'

If somehow FSC pulls off this election (or Trump, for that matter), I hope to see an organized effort to pushback on the detrimental policies that have been enacted during PBO's Administration. If anyone is interested, I have a lot of the background material that might be helpful.

Good luck to you!

Mollie


"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."--Japanese Proverb
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

I had seen this one before my mother died last year. She was a Tea Bag Repuke but started to get a few things I told her about regressive taxation, SS Caps, etc.

The idea that anyone would expect an 80 something to still be working would have made even her laugh out loud, and she sure as hell would see the problem in that. She was 87 and while she was still perfectly OK mentally, she admitted she simply could not keep up anymore with even her right wing garbage "news" papers. Probably one of the few reasons I got any traction with her at all on politics.

They really do want us to just die at our desks I guess. Back in the day when I was working more hours we joked endlessly and morbidly about just that very idea, who knew we were on to something?

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

cardboardurinal's picture

out one thing. He didn't necessarily say 80 somethings, he said "into their eighth decade." This is only slightly better but completely consistent with the world view of those who are not in the trenches.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

gulfgal98's picture

Excellent essay cardboardurinal. Good

Yesterday in my Wed. Open Thread, I wrote about the philosophical base for neo-liberalism which is meritocracy. I have been writing about neo-liberalism for that last three weeks. Since the Clintons came into the Democratic party, the entire focus of those in power is neo-liberalism fueled by the idea of meritocracy.

Thomas Frank has got it right. Everyone who is not a professional (in the elitist groups) is seen by neo-liberals as being undeserving people who have ended up where they are because they lack merit to rise out of their stations in life. I am over-simplifying it, but it has become the driving force of why Congress continues to cut social programs and is aiming at cutting and/or privatizing Social Security. They do not care about anyone but the professional class. The Democratic party has sold its soul out to the neo-liberals with Bill Clinton being the first overt neo-liberal Democrat to become President.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

gulfgal98's picture

on meritocracy. This is exactly how these people think and it is repugnant.

“One of the reasons that inequality has probably gone up in our society is that people are being treated closer to the way that they’re supposed to be treated,” Summers commented early in the Obama administration.

“Remember, as you let that last sentence slide slowly down your throat, that this was a Democrat saying this,” Frank writes. From this mind-set stems everything that the Democrats have done to betray the masses, from Bill Clinton’s crime bill and welfare reform policies to Obama’s failure to rein in Wall Street, according to Frank.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

I can tell you that they don't give a shit about professionals either. Meritocracy is a ruse for 'The rich are better than us and deserve their money - the rest of you just get to fight over the scraps'.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

Hawkfish's picture

Don't let anyone tell you that desk work is not physically demanding or that mental facility does not decline with age. It is obviously not the same as construction work or mining, but sitting at a desk all day is bad for your health in different ways - even if you have a seriously ergonomic workspace. I'm also a pretty bright guy I'm told, but after 50 my ability to quickly absorb new information started to decline noticeably. I'm lucky enough to be in a good place, but many people in my industry have found out about agism the hard way.

The bottom line is that competition with younger workers happens in all occupations, and the same bastards will exploit it for their own greed if we let them.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

such as perspective, judgement, awareness of nuance and history, personal connections, while there are other things we won't be able to compete on a lot of the time, notably speed and ability to keep toughing things out under fatigue.

Example: the best speechwriter I ever worked with was in his 60s. He was superb, but used to fall asleep at his desk for about an hour every afternoon, which predictably brought down the wrath of management. Nevertheless, our immediate boss protected him, because he really was the best. (When the quality fell off, at about age 67, then it really WAS time to retire, and he did.) I too would like to think that now, at a similar age, I might be as good a writer as ever, but have to admit I can no longer put in the consecutive hours. The brain needs more rest breaks.

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Euterpe2

Bisbonian's picture

is at 40,000 feet. I'm 53, and hoping I can keep up with all the changes until I am 60. (They raised the retirement age to 65, but I think that was a mistake, and since I had always thought I had to quit at 60, I'm sticking with the plan.)

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

progdog's picture

Those last few years were horrible for him because he felt so persecuted by the law. They raised the retirement age just in time, and he got his reprieve for a few years.

The rules were put in place during a time when people took it for granted that they'd be able to retire. It's a weird system because it keeps people safe and punishes pilots.

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prog - weirdo | dog - woof

Haikukitty's picture

As a web programmer in my mid-40s, I simply can't assimilate new programming languages the way I used to - also I don't think I should HAVE to, accumulated experience should count for something, but in today's corporate world, it really doesn't.

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gulfgal98's picture

when it was offered because I was physically and mentally burnt out from the long hours and night meetings. I regularly worked 50 hour weeks. After sleeping for three months, I wondered if I had done the right thing. Luckily I did get an opportunity to return part time on a temporary basis seasonally which I did for several years. They needed my unique expertise. The pay was not great, but I never enjoyed working as much as I did then.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

pswaterspirit's picture

I am an electrical engineer. I walk almost 12 hours a day. At 55 I already am thinking about how I can wind things down so I can still move in retirement.

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gulfgal98's picture

I was a professional land use planner and they did not care about me either. But my profession was not in the elite category such as CEO's, hedge fund managers, large bank presidents, etc. Those are the elite professional class and they are the meritocracy.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

lotlizard's picture

That’s why they stand with the trillionaire Saudis who earned their wealth and wives through hard work.

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. . . will in a few years be expected to "supervise" the efforts of unskilled labor regardless of how many hours or days it takes to complete the work. My employer is in the process of pushing out skilled union labor, in part through an "apprentice" program which puts the trainees through an incredibly rough three years of daytime classes and third shift work assignments. The engineers are expected by the accountants ruining (sic) the company to make up the serious deficiencies in the apprentice training and experience and keep the company operational.

This is the future of the American workplace.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

made me see some of my own fallacious thinking on education too. I have long thought that is most of the problem in America while watching the Tea Party at work, but it really isn't even that simple. That book made me stop and think about some of my own attitudes in that arena, attitudes that can seem harmless but really aren't. He's one of my latest favorites.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

In a white collar setting is not a good idea in the long run either. Especially in a tech environment. Older people tend to be more cautious and do not take risks. They are also decades away from schooling and may be unfamiliar with the latest studies or science. Yes, I am generalizing here, but I am an engineer in my 50's and I can't see doing this for another 20 years. Also, the longer older people stay at their job, the less room there is for younger people. Older retirement is just a plain bad idea.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

Kurt from CMH's picture

that the retirement age was set to 65 because of the nature of blue collar work, and should not be raised just because a lot of other people who are white-collar workers don't have the same physical health concerns. As an IT professional, I might be able to keep at it until 67 or 70, but I know there are a lot of other workers out there, working at blue collar jobs, for whom this is not an option.

(p.s. whether I'd want to keep at it until 67 or 70 is another question!)

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For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to everyone that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still.
John Maynard Keynes, 1930

available to people, we need to lessen the number of people in the labor market and dependent upon a job to achieve self-sufficiency. You don't do that by extending the retirement age.

The ruling elite are quite prepared to throw others under the bus. Suggest "they take a bath", and they're horrified that anyone as wonderful and privileged as they are should be expected to get sullied.

All bets are off. Everything we know it is a lie. We must destroy the Clinton machine. Once we do, we can destroy the Trumps, Warners, and the GOP. If Bernie can't do it from within the party, I think he is morally obligated to run third party. They didn't hold clean and fair elections. The votes and voters were manipulated and cheated.

There is an activist summit taking place in Paris in May.

Do you know what is happening there? Thousands of people gather Republic Square in Paris and throughout France, on March 31. Assemblies are formed where people discuss and exchange. Everyone reclaims speech and public space.

Heard or represented, people from all walks repossess the reflection on the future of our world. The policy is not a matter for professionals, it is everyone's business . The human should be at the heart of the concerns of our leaders. Special interests have taken precedence over the general interest.

Every day there are thousands to occupy public space to take our place in the Republic. Come join us and decide together on our common future.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

ZimInSeattle's picture

brothers who both work as mechanics at Boeing and are 54 and 56 years old. I have a desk job at Boeing and I'm 55. Will have to work until 65 at least to afford retirement. We can't give up on Bernie just yet. But the two other choices of the big parties are two sides of the same corrupt coin in my view. Horrible and more horrible. I plan on voting for Jill Stein should HRC be the Dem nominee. And maybe a Trump presidency is what's needed to destroy both parties and the Clinton's once and for all. Trump is scary, but so is 4 or 8 more years of the status quo STFU and enjoy your bread and circus we get from the DNC/DLC/Third Way cabal. Since I have maxed on donations for Bernie, I have switched what money left I can afford to those progressive primary challengers in our state running against all the traitorous pro TPP superdelegate incumbent DINO's that must be removed from office. It seems the only thing we can do is try and get REAL better progressive Democrats elected.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

Lenzabi's picture

Yeah, the Democratic Party turned it's back on us long ago, and now behaves like the old GOP. Not great for us little people.

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So long, and thanks for all the fish

GreatLakeSailor's picture

But I would ask you to reconsider your choice of words if your aim is to advocate for rustbelt working folk (stock from which I spawn and with whom live):

They are simple people with simple lives and simple aspirations.

There are certainly people in my group that could be describe by that phrase, but so, so many can not. Most can not. Mostly the people around me "are not their jobs." Their lives are not their jobs, but rather a means to provide income for their lives. And they are rich lives. A model train hobbyist with an incredible skill for model making. People that sail $600 boats better, faster than schmucks sporting $350k yachts (yes $600. The high buck marinas always have a $10k or $20k sail boat in the foreclosure auction that goes for nothin'.). A guy that can answer any Jeopardy question. Master woodworkers like my Republican/Cop brother in law that harvested storm knocked-down old-growth cherry, seasoned it for 2 years, and made it into a hobby horse (120+ hours of hand & machine work) for our niece...and is voting for Bernie. People that know where the rare, wild mushrooms hide, and asparagus, and can bring it home and cook it up into a dish so good your eyes roll. Musicians not in the big time, but well good enough to bring joy and good times to many. We have lives, not life styles. And they are rich, not simple.

I'm probably comin' off like one of these "You insult!!1!" assholes," that drag discourse to a halt, and I don't intend that to be the result here, but I live in a rich, proud community and just want to make that known.

If you've read this far, thank you for your indulgence.

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Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.

cardboardurinal's picture

than constructive. I guess to clarify, a lot of what I talked about here is from an empirical perspective. It speaks to my dad's side of the family, who are very simple people. It wasn't my intent to throw a wide net. My focus was meant to be narrow.

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GreatLakeSailor's picture

Maybe I jumped because we get dumped on so often.
Nothin' but respect for you CBU.
--

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Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.

riverlover's picture

IIRC, 65 was set to allow a few years of leisure before death. The Last Vacation. There are outliers who die before and those who exist 30 years beyond. Looking at it that way, as life expectancies grew, just keep moving that target date, plus keep those (weary) workers paying into FICA. Sounds like a Master program to keep a carrot in front of the workers.

It becomes less clear to me that the PTB even understand the nature of what people do for 8, 10, 12 hours a day. Maybe for half a century of a working life. There was a golden time (ha) when many workers had the promise of a pension at the end as well. That was expensive for the Bosses, who tried to grow pension funds by gambling in the stock market. That required too much cost to the Bosses, so they came up with the various 40x plans to replace defined pensions. Paternalistic, sure. Then the Great Recession. Good-bye, paper gains toward retirement.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.