@CS in AZ hurt by the shutdown get back pay for the time they are off.

Read about it tonight from several sources, and neglected to save pertinent links and quotes.

Here is one.

Trump Vows Government Shutdown ‘for a Very Long Time’ if Senate Dems Don’t Back Wall

The president dedicated his morning to sending nine tweets on the matter. A shutdown would take effect at midnight. “The Democrats are trying to belittle the concept of a Wall, calling it old fashioned,” wrote the president. “The fact is there is nothing else’s that will work, and that has been true for thousands of years. It’s like the wheel, there is nothing better. I know tech better than anyone,” claimed the 72-year-old. He went on: “The Democrats, whose votes we need in the Senate, will probably vote against Border Security and the Wall even though they know it is DESPERATELY NEEDED. If the Dems vote no, there will be a shutdown that will last for a very long time.”

Seeing that the proverbial bully pulpit turns out to be Twitter... well, I didn’t see that coming. Is this pure political theater, or is trump truly sceeered to his bones of an invasion from Mexico?

Either way, he is more than willing to hurt Americans over what looks like political game playing combined with childish ignorance.

Or he is just trying to make Ann Coulter happy. Who knows? That’s what scares me about trump.

@doh1304

in 10 or 12 years Canadians are going to have to fortify a wall to keep out all the Americans fleeing global heat death.

@snoopydawg I don't think Homeland security is shut down.

The threatened shutdown is partial because 75% of government funding has already been approved for the budget year that started in October. That includes money for the military, which would be unaffected by a shutdown. It’s the other 25% of government spending that’s at issue, but a shutdown could cut off spending for nine of the 15 cabinet-level federal departments, including Homeland Security, Justice, Transportation, Interior, Agriculture and State.

If congress is going to play this game every year with people having to work without being paid then I propose a new rule. The government has to pay them double for the days that they work for free. How many of them don't have any cushion available to go without being paid and how many of them will have to use credit cards which will charge interest or might have checks bounced or might miss an important bill that has consequential consequences? Paying that amount will help them if they get dinged for anything while they aren't paid.

Another rule should be that funding the government is a stand alone bill. No sneaking other stuff in it like Ryan did with the farm bill. And why the hell can congress find $5.7 billion for the wall in a day, but can't find the money for essential things that would help Americans?

This kabuki bullshit happens every year and it's time for it to stop. If the $1.6 billion for the border that Schumer and Pelosi are agreeing to is extra then why didn't they get agreements for DACA? Interesting how the democrats aren't even talking about them anymore isn't it?

In answer to your question I'm thinking that Trump is listening to his buddies at Fox and Lush Limbaugh who thinks he's going soft on stopping immigration. My $.02.

@snoopydawg people have wasted so many words about a standard x-mas photo.

Was it anywhere close to what this dude thought?

@CS in AZ IMHO. No, what you did is express cynicism and "negative" thoughts about this whole theater of political bullshit we currently live with. Apparently now those of us on the "negative" side of anything, including Trumps actions as well as those of "progressive" in name only Democrats, need to just shut the fuck up and go along to get along. If we interpret something in a negative way we are just being cynical, we are not providing an answer or solutions in our cynicism either and that now seems to be a no go since if we dare question we MUST come up with an answer to the problem.

It reminds me of my own Tea Party, Bible thumping step mother, who pushes that positivity gospel non stop and simply does not understand, nor does she care to understand, why I cant just be positive and am just being negative in seeing the ugliness that America really is as well as what's coming down the pike. The Disneyfication of American politics as Chris Hedges has stated in so many words, while the world burns we must be positive, pray to gawd, and for God's sake do not pick on people who are at least seeming to try to right the ship. DO NOT look behind that curtain, be a good American and believe the words at face value.

End rant.

JtC,

I’ve been accused of bringing Daily Kos style divisiveness to your site with this essay.

I do not think I did that, and the accuser quotes things I didn’t say. But those comments are getting upvoted so I have to ask. Should I delete this? Was it wrong to post it?

I’m going out for a few hours, will check in when I get back. I appreciate your guidance on what is ok and not. If posting my late night ramblings about recent news is being Daily Kos-esque, I’ll remove the essay and apologize.

@Big Al

Why Trump’s peace signal in Syria could see US clash with Russia in Ukraine

Trump’s abrupt call for US troops to leave Syria is being lambasted by his domestic critics as “a gift to Russia.” The paradox is that peace signals on Syria could bode sharper conflict with Russia in Ukraine. Hardly a gift.

*

In any case, the notion that Trump’s military withdrawal, or “retreat” as some critics put it, is a signal for peace or “gift” to Russia is woefully misplaced.

Earlier this week, Kurt Volker, the Trump administration’s envoy to Ukraine, told a forum in Brussels that $250 million worth of military equipment was on its way to the US-backed regime in Kiev.

That latest installment is in addition to the $1 billion of military assistance Washington has provided the Kiev regime since it seized power in February 2014 with the US-backed coup. It was the Trump administration that broke new ground from former president Obama when it signed off on $47 million in “lethal military supply” to the Kiev regime this year in the form of anti-tank javelin missiles.

Also this week, some 41 US senators signed a resolution calling for “freedom of navigation” exercises in the Black Sea and for more lethal military assistance “to defend Ukraine from Russian aggression”. Among those senators is Tom Cotton (R-AR), one of the most hawkish anti-Russia lawmakers. Ominously for US-Russia relations, Cotton is tipped in media reports as taking over from Mattis as the next Secretary of Defense.

Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has warned that the US and other NATO powers are coaching the Kiev regime to instigate provocations against Russia for the purpose of providing a pretext to hit Moscow with further sanctions. As with the incident on November 25 when three Ukrainian warships infringed Russia’s maritime borders, Moscow’s legitimate response of defending its territory is distorted by Western governments and media as “aggression.” This then allows anti-Russian politicians to call for more punitive sanctions on Moscow and to whip up more demonization of Putin and his government.

Lots more info here about how the neo Nazis are pushing for war with Russia. The Atlantic council is telling Ukraine's president to send more troops into the Kerch Strait. to provoke a response from Russia that would give NATO the excuse to come to his aid.

some other good articles about this over there.

placing sanctions on other countries. The ploy in many cases is to make the common people suffer thru those sanctions, like what the Clinton admin did to Iraq in the 90's that killed half a million kids, and hope that puts pressure to take down the current government.

In this case, Trump is threatening to shutdown the government "for a very long time", which obviously would hurt a lot of people if done broadly (which apparently it won't be). So it's a threat that if Trump doesn't get his way, a lot of people are going to get hurt.

It's like using innocent civilians as human shields in war. Quite despicable and another reason why Trump shouldn't get credit for anything. I read an article earlier from the Black Alliance for Peace.

"We in the Black Alliance for Peace don’t praise a U.S. president for ending the illegal subversion, invasion and occupation of a sovereign state that should have never been allowed in the first place by the theoretical representatives of the people who now sit in the U.S. Congress. If the Trump administration is serious about the “full and rapid” withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria, we say it’s about time. We demand a full withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Syria, including the mercenary components referred to as “contractors.” We also say troop reduction is not enough—end the war in Afghanistan with a complete and total withdrawal of U.S. forces."

https://www.globalresearch.ca/black-internationalists-its-about-time-for...

In effect, those praising Trump for this announcement (which is all it is so far), are praising a child killing war criminal who should be put on trial in an orange jumpsuit to match his hair, and then put away for the rest of his miserable life.

Kind of like praising Ted Bundy for helping an old lady across the street.

@edg when I moved into the professional class,

I have always felt much more allied with them than to the elite class.

Tho I may disagree with Trump's tactics, I agree with the intent. Our factories are gone. Our jobs have disappeared. The rich people and Wall Street get million dollar Xmas bonuses. We get a $10 gift card to Kroger. And half the products in Kroger come from somewhere else.

I may disagree with the wall as a solution but we are in dire need for some relief from the downward push in our labor market.

Trump may not be the answer but we sure as hell can't look for a solution from the clowns being schmoozed by the lobbyists and waiting for a special envelop in their stocking.

I think Trump deserves a smidgen of credit for trying to end the debacle in Syria. Despite the institutional weight of the DC Establishment, he does appear to want to undo the Obama/Clinton regime change scheme we've been attempting. It may seem that praising Trump for a small thing is the same as praising Trump for everything, but that's hardly the case when people try to guide Trump into doing the right thing once in a while.

Regarding the border wall, I disagree that it's a bad thing. I now live in Arizona, where I've seen groups of illegals sneaking into the country. But I grew up in Detroit, where I saw the extreme poverty and hopelessness of many of our own black citizens. Knowing that illegals are filling some or many of the jobs they could perform troubles me. Knowing that many Democrats are happy to have blacks trapped into generational welfare troubles me. Until every American that wants a job has a job, I think it's unconscionable to bring in or allow workers from other countries than our own.

@edg I'm against all of the immigration programs until the US population is served decently.

I have no idea why people think the border should be open. The current group at the border needs to go home and figure out how to fix their problems in their country. Plenty of countries have had huge internal problems that they eventually resolved.

Businesses just want cheap labor.

I think Trump deserves a smidgen of credit for trying to end the debacle in Syria. Despite the institutional weight of the DC Establishment, he does appear to want to undo the Obama/Clinton regime change scheme we've been attempting. It may seem that praising Trump for a small thing is the same as praising Trump for everything, but that's hardly the case when people try to guide Trump into doing the right thing once in a while.

Regarding the border wall, I disagree that it's a bad thing. I now live in Arizona, where I've seen groups of illegals sneaking into the country. But I grew up in Detroit, where I saw the extreme poverty and hopelessness of many of our own black citizens. Knowing that illegals are filling some or many of the jobs they could perform troubles me. Knowing that many Democrats are happy to have blacks trapped into generational welfare troubles me. Until every American that wants a job has a job, I think it's unconscionable to bring in or allow workers from other countries than our own.