@mimi

One thing I know: online friendships--ones that are 100% online--are not interchangeable with friendships that involve IRL contact.

There are people I only know online that I consider to be friends--but the word means something different when I use it about them. It's not at all the same kind of relationship as the ones I have with people I know in the physical world.

But yeah, I agree that we've been manipulated, sometimes enticed, sometimes bludgeoned into locating more and more of our attention and time online.

the book Reclaiming Conversation is pretty good about this.

say, friendships online, without having known and interacted person to person, face to face, are like wanting to eat the cake on the screen but not getting it in real time, so basically baloney.

I can have a lot of friendly feelings towards a certain poster online, but heck, do I know who he/she is without having met them in person?. No.

We have been seduced, forced and manipulated to locate our friends online. The worst sell-out of humanity imo.

There are few people who have friends. I think this site shows that friends do something together, like making music and interacting in the arts.

Oh well, I don't feel well right now, so I leave it at that. Thanks for the great essay. May be I come back, when I feel a little healthier and stronger.

Be well and stick to your friends in the physical world.

Be well.

@enhydra lutris

different cultures do it different ways, but it's hard to think of one that doesn't do it *some* way.

By long tradition and social evolution, a major part of such associations is the sharing of food, space and/or shelter, and beverages, even if only donuts and coffee in the break room.

It's so widespread I'm almost inclined to think of it as a biological tendency, though that probably couldn't be proven.

A couple of days ago we held one of the first such gatherings with their replacements, distancing was practiced by all, many but not all wore masks, which in part had to do with persons on their home tuf and super close frequent associates tending to skip them. Snacks and beverages were there and offered, but not as in the old days of everybody bring a bowl or plate of x and such. It went well, so such things can be done. Nobody was unduly put off by the changes due to distancing, masks, minimalization of shared food, etc. It is an adaptation that we, as an adaptable species should be able to undertake.

Not being able to share food is, IMO, more damaging than it might at first appear. It's a strong deep instinct, when you care about someone, to make that visible by eating from the same dish. God only knows how long ago people started doing that. Before written history, probably.

But yeah, we can adapt and have some kind of interactions, and I guess we'll have to. But how did everybody agree on the "rules" of that gathering you mentioned? And where did that conversation happen--I assume online?

Since the topic of the OT is, in part, occasioned by Covid-19's effect on our behaviors and relationships I thought I might note that "friends and acquaintances" and "friends and neighbors" are both long standing phrases that actually denote something real, at least historically, about our relationships. If nothing else, they are categories of persons with whom one is presumed to be likely to regularly interact. People one might even "have over."

(I'm going to skip over the broader and bigger question of life becoming more on-line and indirect, and less face to face, though I might note in passing that the US is intrinsically conducive to that because of area and distance. I grew up with pretty much no relatives and certainly no close ones living within about 2,000 miles and friends who, for one reason or another, would suddenly pack up and relocate not a few blocks away, but 30, 30 or 200 miles away. Even back in the dark ages friendships became telephonic with sporadic actual journeys to meet up in person.)

Who one has over, and how, and for what and why and what is likely go go on often includes certain rituals or quasi-formalities.

Through one's life, candidates for inclusion in such groupings derive from, among others, relatives, schoolmates, workmates, co-religionists, fellow-volunteers, club members, and like minded political activists. Club membership can be formal and informal, and can include focus on a vast range of interests, and well as "ritual organizations" (Masons or whatever). Interaction at one's home, at one's school or job or activity center, or their homes, also often includes certain rituals or quasi-formalities.

By long tradition and social evolution, a major part of such associations is the sharing of food, space and/or shelter, and beverages, even if only donuts and coffee in the break room.

Currently we miss the lack of these things and it is having an impact and is one of the drivers of the "hurry up and re-open fer chrissake" movement. Our neighborhood is starting to re-stabilize from a major disruption involving the departure of one of its first residents who held and facilitated a lot of neighborhood gatherings. A couple of days ago we held one of the first such gatherings with their replacements, distancing was practiced by all, many but not all wore masks, which in part had to do with persons on their home tuf and super close frequent associates tending to skip them. Snacks and beverages were there and offered, but not as in the old days of everybody bring a bowl or plate of x and such. It went well, so such things can be done. Nobody was unduly put off by the changes due to distancing, masks, minimalization of shared food, etc. It is an adaptation that we, as an adaptable species should be able to undertake. There was, however, no sleep-over involved and it was outdoors, as are most summer gatherings around here.

OTOH, we recently cancelled a dinner gathering at our house because the various personalities and their quirks and objections to holding it outside and masks and etc just got to be too much for everybody to reciprocally accommodate.

It occurred to me that a somewhat sci-fi type solution would be the introduction of new rituals to be part of such gatherings focused to some extent on distancing and PPE, especially PPE that would permit easier consumption of food and beverages. Then I stumbled across the following:
https://boingboing.net/2020/07/18/devo-energy-dome-with-face-shi.html

So, one assembles some PPE kits, one per guest, and use thereof by each guest becomes part of the new ritual for such gatherings, or individual, stylistic PPE to be supplied by the guests themselves becomes part of the ritual. I am reminded of an alternative reality in some sci-fi tale where sex was public and eating was private - anything can become culturel ritual, it simply needs to be done.

I still don't have much of a solution for stay-overs, though stringent distancing and PPE behavior by the guests should be part of it. Uninvited guests, of course, would be not allowed, and newcomers to the "circle of acquaintances" should be negotiated covering such matters as their day-to-day and immediate previous distancing behaviors and such. This is a form of self-protection that will replace the now defunct handshake, which, face it, no longer serves its original purpose (here, see, my weapon hand is empty).

be well and have a good one.

@on the cusp

All that said, it was during the pandemic that an on line friendship blossomed into romance, and then went to full bloom marriage proposal afterwards.

Want to find out if your love is true? Move in with your lover at the precise time you cannot go out to dinner, to visit a museum, to stroll on the beach, when every day you are together almost all day long, and see if you run out of things to talk about. See if you yearn for solitude, or if you miss your lover when they go to the post office. Happy to see their head on the pillow? Did that gentle snore sound comforting? Did that "yum yum" from the first bite of the meal you prepared make your heart beat a bit faster? Did you figure out the perfect way to resolve a disagreement from which there is no walking away until you do?

This pandemic condensed the exploration of love and friendship from years to weeks.

I'm very happy for you. What good fortune!

I haven't joined groups, haven't socialized with local groups for decades, due to my professional concerns. I have long since maintained friendships long distance, with face to face meetups being irregular.
In many respects, this is just nothing new.
I interview my clients outside my office. We all like that. I am not a fan of zoom court, but I have no choice.
I require a mask be worn if anyone comes inside the door. Any friend stopping by the house gets to visit on the patio.
All that said, it was during the pandemic that an on line friendship blossomed into romance, and then went to full bloom marriage proposal afterwards.
Want to find out if your love is true? Move in with your lover at the precise time you cannot go out to dinner, to visit a museum, to stroll on the beach, when every day you are together almost all day long, and see if you run out of things to talk about. See if you yearn for solitude, or if you miss your lover when they go to the post office. Happy to see their head on the pillow? Did that gentle snore sound comforting? Did that "yum yum" from the first bite of the meal you prepared make your heart beat a bit faster? Did you figure out the perfect way to resolve a disagreement from which there is no walking away until you do?
This pandemic condensed the exploration of love and friendship from years to weeks.
Take care of your friends and loved ones regardless of distance or methods of communication.
Just reach out, always be there for them.

@Granma

IMO, bringing an extra, unknown person to stay in your house without asking permission, was completely unacceptable in Covid times. And I likely would have accepted it as you did. I am glad no one got sick.

We both feel it's unacceptable, yet we both would have accepted it.

It's like our cultural shoulder got dislocated by a body slam from COVID.

And wow, this is tough:

My daughter in law's mother flew in from a hot spot state and daughter in law brought her to visit me before she goes home. I had very mixed feelings. She is cautious but after all, she was on a plane and came from a hot spot state. It was great to get a real hug, but I'll be relieved when 2 weeks have passed.

If you don't mind, drop a note letting me know when the two weeks is up. I'd like to know you're OK.

Most of us need social interaction with other people, face to face. Online is fine, but for me, cannot replace face to face. IMO, bringing an extra, unknown person to stay in your house without asking permission, was completely unacceptable in Covid times. And I likely would have accepted it as you did. I am glad no one got sick.

My daughter in law's mother flew in from a hot spot state and daughter in law brought her to visit me before she goes home. I had very mixed feelings. She is cautious but after all, she was on a plane and came from a hot spot state. It was great to get a real hug, but I'll be relieved when 2 weeks have passed.

I don't have any answers, or even ideas, for how we resolve the social situation. I think it is going to have to be highly individual on a case by case and situation basis. The idea that we will all keep 6 feet away from anyone not in our own household is not going to be possible long term. Most of us did that for some months. Things happen, like plumbing emergencies, requiring having helpers in our house. I suspect we are all going to have to expand our contact bubbles to include a few more people. I'm comfortable doing that with people I know are being cautious. My need for social contact makes me willing to accept some limited risk. And I hope to make wise choices.

The climate where I live makes it possible to socialize with a few people at a time outdoors, where it is easy to keep distance. But that is not true for other places. This whole thing is harder for very sociable personalities than for more introverted types, I think.