Sandernistas Strategy Session#1

I'm a realist and realize that most likely Sanders will not become the nominee. But we have to understand that he only needs 64% of the remaining delegates to win and if we get 75-80% in California like we got in other Western states then we're golden.
But if Bernie were to lose because of their voter suppression, much of which had nothing to do with keeping unregistered voters from voting, than we Sandernistas need a strategy to get a true progressive in the White House.

So should we vote for Clinton? Well, it all depends on her Vice Presidential nominee.

A Clinton-[Moderate Democrat] 2016 Run

Going into a 2024 primary election, another Democratic Moderate (like Clinton) would have 100% name recognition and the whole media and Democratic establishment behind him/her. If s/he is Latino or African American, another Warren insurgency would have to try to break another “firewall”. This is entirely possible. Clinton said some good VPs in her mind would be moderates Perez or Castro. Basically every challenge we have faced in 2016, we would be facing in 2024 if that’s the ticket. If that is the case, We absolutely cannot vote for Clinton. We would have to do everything in our power that Democrats lose so we can have another primary fight in 2020 when we're really ready.

A Clinton-Warren 2016 Run

Yes I know a Vice President doesn’t have any power, except in a tie with the Senate.

But if Elizabeth Warren was Vice President for 8 years, she could use the limelight to push progressive ideals. Every time Joe Biden says something, the whole media goes crazy.

But the biggest reason is that it would spring board Elizabeth Warren to a presidential nomination in 2024. Think about it. With nothing we pushed Bernie to getting within 5% of beating a candidate backed by the entire media and Democratic Establishment. By 2024, we would have 8 years of laying the solid foundation for a landslide progressive victory. And by 2020, there will be more millennial voters than baby boomers. And no worries about name recognition because as VP, Warren would have 100% name recognition. She'll be 75 in 2024, but since Bernie is 74 now that really shouldn't be a problem. Tulsi Gabbard, Keith Ellison, or any other true progressive who actually endorsed Bernie would be a fine candidate as well.

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detroitmechworks's picture

Honestly, I'm not going to rack my brain to come up with scenarios in which Clinton can earn my vote.

She can't. No matter what she does. Ship sailed LONG ago. Nothing she does is going to make up for her past behavior.

Not one single solitary thing.

The only way I will ever consider voting for Clinton is if she pays me 1 million dollars to consider it. In that case I will take the money, Consider it thoroughly, then vote for Bernie Or Jill Stein.

Because it really sucks when people do unto you as you have done unto others. Blum 3

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

hester's picture

ticket for VP. I won't be voting for her.

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Don't believe everything you think.

whyvee's picture

as this primary had progressed and the tact the HRC team has taken...I find it more and more unbelievable that anyone who has seriously backed Bernie could ever conceive of voting for her. I started out preferring Bernie to her but now would NEVER vote for her; I have to be able to live with myself.

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Exdiplopat's picture

And agree with your position on voting. HRC -- No Can Do.

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"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." 14th Dalai Lama

whyvee's picture

thought it especially appropriate during this political season.

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Cha Cha DiGregorio's picture

Clinton could put Jesus himself on the ticket, and she still would not receive my vote

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It's a big club...and you ain't in it!

Well said! It is particularly heartening to hear someone else bring up the issue of computerized voting fraud. I have been following this issue since 2004, and the theft of Ohio from Kerry. But I suspect that Florida 2000 was the trial run. The "hanging chads" issue was smokescreen. They ordered the wrong paper to print the ballots on, to create that problem. Basically, we have had computerized voting fraud as long as we have been voting using computers, which is probably why actual computer experts say we shouldn't use computers to vote with, not now, not ever. The End.
-But since this is supposed to be a strategy session, let me offer this suggestion: Picket the Polls, just outside the legal distance, and tell people about what having to "adjust" exit polls says about the actual vote count. -And about the curious fact that the "adjustments" are ALWAYS to agree with vote counts that favor the Right. We used to tell other countries that they had experienced a fraudulent election, if their exit polls were off by more than a single percent. We have experienced some "adjustments" on state-level races as high as 22%, and still... DEAD BLOODY SILENCE from the media. If this issue is going to get out in front of The People, it's going to be the same way that Bernie's message got out. Grassroots, person-to-person, and by-passing all the major media.
If one looks at the NON-adjusted exit polls, one would find the current roles of Clinton and Sanders reversed. Several Clinton states would be in the Sanders column, and the delegate count would probably have clinched it by now. Haven't bothered to tally it exactly myself, because the fact that "adjustments" are happening is kind of depressing. That, and how so few people (in my experience) seem to care. What you said in your video about too many Dems expecting the Party to save them, that rang so true to me. Until this election cycle, I could still convince myself that Republicans were solely to blame for electronic voting fraud. The Dems would never do that to us, would they???
Yeah.
We on the Left have allowed them to convince us that we can only exist on their margins, rather than as a separate entity. The Left has turned into the abused spouse of the Democratic Party, all too willing to ignore their faults, afraid to leave, and even willing to make excuses for their worst behaviors. And yet, when it comes down to it, the hardest part is deciding to leave.
The establishment practice of calling people who are concerned about vote-flipping, et al, "Conspiracy Theorists", is a dog-whistle for "They are INSANE! Don't listen to them!" This is also a part of the abused spouse relationship we have with the Dems, where they attempt to gaslight us, to excuse their own evil acts against the heart of ACTUAL Democracy.
My wife was listening to you speak, too, and said "-sounds like you found your people!" It's easy to forget, that we are not alone in this. Parties, Major Media, and The Money Power want us to feel alone. Divide and Conquer, and all that.
Another thing you touched on in your video -- That Bernie could actually start a TRUE Opposition Party. -But wasn't he a Democratic Socialist before this Presidential run? I might be wrong on that. If I'm not, then maybe we have a pre-existing ship to jump to while the Great Donkey sinks beneath the waves. -And if I AM wrong, then maybe it's about time to resurrect the post-Civil War "Populist Party"!
At any rate, thanks for saying out loud, what a lot of us have been thinking for some time now. Solidarity!

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"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

I left the Democrats in 1980.

The ground didn't open up and swallow me. Lightning didn't strike me. A tornado didn't sweep me away to a dystopian Oz. I wasn't (yet) renditioned to some secret CIA Black Site and waterboarded.

May my experience embolden those who desire to depart the Wall Street-Crats. It can -and should- be done. Act now.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Alison Wunderland's picture

She's already an icon. And she's much too smart to let herself be tarred with the Clinton brush.

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ngant17's picture

that's was an authentic people's movement from the ground up, she was happy to crush it and have the rightwing generals installed in a coup. She isn't walking away from this one, I'm not going to forget this.

Just like she wants to crush the Sanders people's movement here in the USA. She would be perfectly comfortable to declare martial law once she is in power.

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Hillary will send Warren to some political Siberia. She isn't about to share any power with anyone, and Warren is far more valuable to America in the Senate.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Szaephod's picture

Let that thought rattle around for a bit.

By helping her into the Whitehouse, how many souls might you be helping to condemn to death?

This raft-trip isn't over, by a far stretch. The race is close, and the mists of FBI cataracts are rising ahead…

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

No. Everybody the Clintons capture is corrupted, as in all credibility, all previous good work is ruined. Warren is smart enough to realize this. Historically, every VP has become marginalized by their presidents; it is chiefly a ceremonial, second banana role. Has anybody asked Warren if she even wants to be Clinton's second banana? No.

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MsGrin's picture

I still believe Bernie pulls it off. And that's the best of all possible worlds.
We cannot yet see what the choices will be should that actuality of Bernie getting the nom not come to pass.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

stevej's picture

to keep as much political distance between herself and the Clinton Mafia as she possibly can - for both hers and our sakes.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

He has got my vote regardless of party. If Bernie is out and it's Hillary vs. Trump, I'm voting for the Donald. He and Bernie are much closer on issues like foreign policy, trade and corruption in politics. I hope both parties go down in flames and the Sanders movement emerges from the ashes.

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