A Positive And A Danger To Reject

I believe in direct action for every injustice there is a protest. There are very few ways to be heard above the din but getting out on the streets is one that still works.

The election of Trump seems to have reawakened the willingness of Americans to get out there and be heard.

The warning I have is don't let a political party co-opt your protest, sure they can send a delegation but it is not about them, especially when they have failed so often before to support genuine movements such as Occupy and Black Lives Matter.

Protest should be about specifics for example:

1] If it is about oil pipelines make it about that only, the effect on the people concerned and the environmental damage that affects everyone.

2] If it is about closing our borders to targetted religions and countries that is what it is about.

3] If it is about women's rights, that's what it is about and nothing else.

4] When protesting at G8 and G++ etc about inequality and poverty generated by globalisation that's what it is about, not how one party is less bad.

5] Anti-war protests are against war; independent of who is in power, a pathetic failing of the party faithful in recent years.

Where protests fail is when they become a porridge of different issues and "serious people" want to make them political manifestos along party lines. Then they start infighting about minutia and then the whole objective gets lost in political verbiage. The duopoly has the money and organisation to hold their own media shows, now with added protest zones to keep the riff-raff away.

My point is keep protests simple and on target, motivate people, not "the parties" and especially speak to people that disagree or just want the security blanket of hiding behind a Party doctrine. Party affiliation does not matter, but consistency is important. Just because your party "won" doesn't mean you can sit back on the couch, unless the issue didn't mean anything to you anyway except "your party winning" even if the issue is then ignored.

I suppose what I am trying to say about our duopoly is:

  • Hold all their feet to the fire.
  • Hold them all responsible.
  • Issue by issue.
  • Independent of Political Pretence.
  • Keep them on their damn toes make them work to be re-elected.
  • Don't give them your money free of charge.
  • Don't vote for them if they ignore you and tell them why.

Democracy should not be just about sporadic voting, especially when your votes are taken for granted in the phoney "left v right" neo-liberal fiction that we have, make them work for you.

Write letters, make phone calls and when you receive political verbiage in reply; repeat.

A protest can make a good day out, it can be enjoyable and perhaps it could even become popular. Direct action is good for the soul.

Make the bastards work for a change.

Democracy should be messy.

Just a thought.
Wink

Good to see this

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/jan/29/donald-trump-us-tra...

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

sojourns's picture

If, for a moment, we look at a protest as one side of an argument, then it is paramount to assert cohesiveness lest the assertion makes itself irrelevant.

up
0 users have voted.

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

@sojourns Where the point seems to be lost is when compounding with issues that do not pertain to the origin. It is easier to engage people one point at a time, it is easier when political affiliation is ignored. We have allowed to many issues to be clouded by political affectation and all the knee jerk reactions that engenders.

up
0 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

protest march in downtown Portland, Oregon:

"what are we protesting?
I don't know!
Cool!"

Easier said than done as we can see now. Everything revolves around the political system so even if a protest tries to steer clear of political party cooptation, it ends up being funneled into that process anyway.

up
0 users have voted.

@Big Al e are ignored now because we have gone so far down the road where they can easily ignore us due to this deeply entrenched duopoly. "We are not as bad as" should be a warning call and not a reason to vote for...

up
0 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al I don't know about the immigration rally, but it's pretty clear that the Women's March was created in-house. No co-optation needed. The establishment put on a resistance rally.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal @Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

women's march organizers saying the next step is for people to attend the next Interior Democrats meeting.

Congressional democrats all over the march, claiming it and the spotlight.

As I said elsewhere, is this what all those high-powered meetings between Obama and congressional democrats were about?

up
0 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

Black lives matter, Standing Rock, Climate justice, income equality, environmental protection, prison reform, world peace,...

These all seem the same struggle to me. Each requires the others to happen.

It is overwhelming, but if we unite and all fight together...we will probably still fail because it is a constant struggle.

Here's a photo from nearly 100 years ago
Debs_Eastman_Rose_Pastor_Strokes.jpg
This 1918 photograph shows Rose Pastor working with activists Eugene Debs and Max Eastman. Pastor fought for labor rights and women's rights, and against war.

I guess my point is all these movement are really one movement in my mind, and the real problem is that we provide no education of the problems to the people.

up
0 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

riverlover's picture

@Lookout And forest and trees. With winter, I see trees. I can mostly ID them. One in the house, awaiting planting where I choose. I must have deadwood cleared out to plant another.

up
0 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

@Lookout people, therefore the message becomes diluted, one step at a time as riverlover says deal with the trees and clean out the deadwood then the forest might be able to thrive on its own.

Keep it simple and on message I suppose is all I'm trying to say.

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

@LaFeminista

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lookout Great photo. If I had a time machine, I'd go in a heartbeat and join their fight.

But as Gandalf says, "So do all who live in such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given you."

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

@Lookout
the only regret I had with the women's march was that it was not "run" as a "people's march". The whole confusion of the march being co-opted or not would have been impossible if it were a spontaneous march of all people (which I think it actually was). There are plenty of reasons why men would oppose Trump as much as women do. Why the explicit "gender-issue" oriented promotion? If I had the nerves I would search for all male speakers on the march.

up
0 users have voted.
blazinAZ's picture

@Lookout

But aren't all the struggles tied together?

What ties them together is capitalism -- the wealthy hoarding riches at the expense of the rest of us and destroying the planet in the process.

I think it's important to make that connection over and over again. It's also important, as LaFem says, to criticize the policy no matter who is suggesting it. Wars and the surveillance state under Democrats are no more palatable than they are under Republicans.

Democrats seem to forget that, however

up
0 users have voted.

There is no justice in America, but it is the fight for justice that sustains you.
--Amiri Baraka

We need to remember what you've written here - if we want to be effective, that is.

up
0 users have voted.

@Sunspots

1] NRA : Guns ownership, that is it everything else is secondary, heaven help any Republican that doubts them.

2] Abortion: All that matters is a a bunch of cells nothing else matters, heaven help a Republican that steps out of line.

Two odiously successful lobbying groups that subjected a party to their way of reasoning and not the other way around.

up
0 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

@LaFeminista

Kinda have to be sold separately, but I do understand and agree that messaging is important...and people generally can only grasp one idea at a time.

Certainly when writing your congress critter you have to focus on a single message. The nature of teaching is one lesson at a time.

However, if the marches last week just had a single message do you think it would have had the same draw? Letting people bring their issue(s) with them and joining together is a powerful technique too.

just my 2 cents...

up
0 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout I can understand why Black Lives Matter got angry when everyone want to jump on the "they matter" bandwagon, it took the attention away from their actual legitimate complaints. The DNC could have come out with "we support BLM" rather than trying to use it as a political football in their primary.

NB: Of course everyone matters, that was not the point of their protest however.

up
0 users have voted.

@LaFeminista @LaFeminista I tend to drop out of the conversation when Black Lives Matter comes up as something positive. A couple(few) of the organizations that operate under the Black Lives Matter umbrella are getting upwards of $100 Million from the Ford Foundaton, an organization known for extracting value for its money. The leader of one of the groups, Coates I think, had a friend shot and killed by a police officer in Prince Georges County, Maryland, the richest black majority county in the USA. The government is controlled by African Americans; the head of law enforcement is African American; and the cop who shot and killed is African American yet Coates(if that's his name - writes for the Atlantic) blames racism and white supremacy. I think it's getting all this money to promote identity politics and keep the working class divided.

up
0 users have voted.

"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@duckpin Again, there's something quite ugly going on here: you have a large movement much of which is sincere and absolutely in the right. But under the banner of that movement you have a bunch of corporate Democratic shitheads mining those people's justified moral outrage as a resource. What you end up with at the end of all that, at best, is a bunch of sincere BLM protesters interrupting a Clinton speech by singing, and John Lewis rushing back and forth amongst them shushing them. At worst, what you get is what happened at the beginning of the primaries: Sanders and O'Malley getting targeted and everybody else getting a free pass.

We've got to pry the goddamned alien face-hugger off the face of our movements. In the case of BLM, that's not for me to do, because I'm white and it ain't my movement--I'm just an ally, and me making those decisions in any way would be grossly inappropriate. In the case of feminism, I guess it is for me to do, but I admit I'm closer to giving up on feminism altogether. The upper-class and upper-middle class Boomer women like Steinem and Albright have kept their grip on feminism and neither the young nor the women of color nor the poor women who are excluded by their agenda have ever made even the slightest headway in prying that grip loose. It's their movement, and it has next to nothing to do with me, seeing as how it appears to be primarily a way of getting upper-class and upper-middle-class women into the same positions of power that their male counterparts occupy.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Agree. There are a lot of sincere and outraged blacks that are demonstrating against the militarization of the police who act like an occupying army; and then you have corporate funded BLM leaders taking credit when they espouse racial identity politics of the most reactionary sort. They see themselves part "of a worldwide black movement" - a movement that is happy with capitalism that is forever using methods to keep working people from uniting.

up
0 users have voted.

"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@duckpin The establishment wants a bigger race war than the one we've already got, with both sides under their control as much as possible. They also want a new ideological war (right v left), with both sides under their control as much as possible. The entire political shitshow of the last year has seemed to me to be leading to that. Not that they don't also want Hillary in the White House.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Centaurea's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Slight quibble: Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright aren't Boomer women. They're both firmly in the Silent Generation, born in the 1930s. This may sound like nit-picking, but there are distinct differences between the two generations. When I was a young woman (born in the '50s, so I am a Boomer), most of my closest women friends were Silents. Something about that generation of women resonated with me in a way that my own generation never has.

up
0 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Centaurea Whoops. Sorry. I believe there's a difference between Silents and Boomers too. Kerry, for instance, isn't really a Boomer--he just caucuses with them. Smile

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lookout It seems to me it had a single message that overrode all the multiple messages: Trump is bad and we don't want him as President.

Fair enough; I don't want him as President either. But at this point, unless we're advocating for an actual overthrow of the government, not sure what undermining him with street protests accomplishes other than President Pence, or, at best, President Ryan.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

up
0 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@LaFeminista No. We get together with people we trust in small groups and start building a persistent political infrastructure based on our values. We do the work of creating a strategy that is not simply moral in itself but that also provides countermeasures to the ugly tricks the establishment regularly plays. That means not showing up to events handed down to us from above, but creating the long-term relationships and communities that Occupy should have resulted in. We pick up where Occupy left off, not where Hillary 2016 did.

But this is a harder path, much less emotionally satisfying, much more work, and much more difficult to deal with because it doesn't include an easy answer to getting rid of the sociopathic and, indeed, fascist powers that have us in their grip. It's just that it's the precondition to finding any answers at all. And if we fail to find any answers, at least that infrastructure would be there to help us survive what time we have left better than we will as things stand now.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I do interfere with our local, departmental and regional governments. I do have a dig at our leaders, but the real work I focus on is at a local level, such as pollution and emissions from our local businesses/farms [by education not threat]

up
0 users have voted.

@LaFeminista Im loving the street protests and the publicity they are getting. Last week IndivisibleNY staged a local protest about Medicare outside a congressman's office here. Without the national coverage of protests, this one would never have been mentioned in local media. Instead it got front page coverage with pictures and an interview with the organizers. Invaluable!

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

I believe this comment is what you had envisioned when you first came up with the idea of creating a caucus group. It is about creating a social movement that can and will effect real change to benefit the people.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gulfgal98 Yeah, it is. But it's a hard road. Still, for me, it's either that or abandon politics altogether and just enjoy whatever time I have left. (Sorry to everyone 35 and under).

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Ravensword's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal , however, it's not hard to envision a dystopian outcome with your plan, no matter how good your intentions are.

up
0 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Ravensword I'm not sure how I could make things much more dystopian than they are, and are becoming. The trends are toward civil war, an expanded police state, continuing massive corruption, pollution starting to destroy the habitability of the planet, endless and expanding wars overseas and possibly even nuclear war.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Lily O Lady's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

up
0 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Lookout's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

It was a very inspiring event, with some passionate, funny, informed and poignant​ speeches and a wide diversity of reasons for marching.

Connecting with people is powerful and builds movements. You may perceive it just anti-Trump but many who marched saw it as something more.

up
0 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lookout Of course that's true. As I said, there are a lot of sincere, morally outraged people who attended, and they all had their independent reasons for doing so. But who organized it? Who spoke from the various stages in various cities? And what was the one thing everybody agreed on? What was the thing most discussed in the corporate media's generous coverage of the event?

The very fact that the corporate media, with the exception (of course) of Fox, gave coverage to this event tells all you need to know. I've been at a lot of rallies, including rallies that topped a half a million people, and it was crickets in the mainstream press. Yet suddenly they're not only covering on TV and on the front page of the WaPo, but people like Rachel Maddow are blogging about it and tweeting about it.

Why can't we just create our own events that will express those sincere people's outrage without having a parasitical political system mining it to repair their shattered reputations?

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Lookout's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Was organized by a neighbor...and this was how it was organized -

This is ​a ​March FOR the following issues:
WE MARCH in Solidarity with ALL Women.
WE MARCH in POWER and STRENGTH.
OUR Strength comes from our HEARTS and our INNER WISDOM.
WE MARCH for the GREAT DIVERSITY OF OUR BEAUTY
• We define beauty without rankings, scales or cultural boxes of what is beautiful.
WE MARCH that each and every woman feels and knows SAFETY in every aspect of her life.
We MARCH for our deep CREATIVITY and INTUITION that guides us to our deep passions.
WE feel and know that our power increases as we move together in SOLIDARITY and ONENESS, and we appreciate the men that walk with us in solidarity.
WE are SEEN. We are HEARD. We are VALUED. We are HONORED.
We MARCH for ACCESS to quality EDUCATION for all women and girls.
We MARCH so that all women and girls can see and express their own LEADERSHIP and WORTH.
WE MARCH for the POWER of CHOICE
• To decide what is RIGHT for our own bodies
• To decide who TOUCHES our own bodies and when
• To decide how I EXPRESS my sexuality and whom I choose to MARRY
We MARCH for REVERENCE for the ultimate MOTHER, Our shared Mother EARTH. She is ALIVE and we BREATHE and feel her SACREDNESS.
We MARCH for equal PAY and access to MEANINGFUL JOBS for ALL women.
We HONOR the WISDOM of the ELDER WOMEN/ the GRANDMOTHERS and we celebrate the wild CREATIVITY of the YOUNG.
We MARCH for DIGINTY and RESPECT for every woman with every step we take.
We CELEBRATE the full range of our DIVERSITY of color, races, body sizes, power, intelligence, sexuality, physical abilities and our voices; WE have the right to be here to express ourselves and our power in our unique and individual ways.
We MARCH with our HANDS on our HEARTS and our other hand outstretched and we cry out: LOVE ON FOR WOMEN!
WE STAND FOR MORE LOVE, NOT LESS. WE LOVE ON OURSELVES, EACH OTHER AND OUR COUNTRY. WE ARE THE FABRIC OF THIS COUNTRY AND WE CLAIM THESE RIGHTS!
After the March we will gather back at the Town Square for short speeches and sharings. Bring signs that are stating what you are FOR in Women's Rights, please do not use your signs to denounce any political figures. Bring a chair if you stay for speeches. This is a short march because it will only take place on the sidewalks and then we turn around and return to the Town Square.

I case you missed skod's OT comment -

I'm currently suffering from post-march depression. Attended here in Denver with my wife, and felt very uplifted and empowered. Met *many* people, made some good connections, had a lot of great conversation, and got quite jazzed with what we saw. Thought it might lead to something.

I now see that I must have been mistaken: it has now been leftsplained to me that it was all just a tantrum of unhappy corporate democrats, and was therefore too impure to lead to anything lasting since it wasn't sufficiently explicitly anti-establishment. Could have knocked me over with a feather. I thought that it was plenty anti-establishment, myself, but whadda I know? I would have thought that a few million people in the street was a good thing. How could I have been so upgefuckt?

I have seen the error of my ways. I'll go back to quietly waiting on the sidelines, and keep my ear to the ground for Someone Important to start a movement sufficiently pure to be deemed worthy. Meanwhile, I will also attempt to understand exactly why it is that so many folks on the left seem to be so determined to let the perfect be the enemy of the good....

The marches were meaningful to people...I don't see the dems as being seen as the driver.

up
0 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lookout "Impure?" "Leftsplaining?"

Sometimes I wish I could turn off the pattern recognition part of my brain. I'd be a lot happier.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lookout And then there's "letting the perfect be the enemy of the good."

God, please let me find a way to turn that part of my brain off.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@LaFeminista Republicans I know personally will cast votes that prevent their own families from getting health insurance, and free public education, against preventing their food and water from being protected and even regulated, because guns and abortion. Police state? meh. Eliminating habeas corpus? meh. Illegal wars? meh.
Being in Texas, and in an area where dems do not exist in elected office, all a bastard has to do is run ads showing dead fetuses and a picture of themselves holding a gun.
These are powerful messages, and they win. It will be very hard to get conservative people to join in with progressives on anything when no matter what, conservatives put those 2 issues as the criteria for action.

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

I learned a lot of things. First and foremost, it was all about having the conversations with those who stopped, regardless of whether or not we agreed politically. A conversation is a two way street and my personal goal was to try to find areas of commonality and agreement. We were trying to make allies, not trying to be self righteous. and in your face which only creates enmity. This is why a conversation is so important. This is also why political persuasion was not that important. In the end, even with self described conservatives or Republicans, we often could find common ground.

Second, it should never be about personalities, but should always be focused upon an issue. This is exactly why the anti-Trump rallies are doomed to fail. Trump is a symptom and even if he is gone, the main issues still are there. Take care of the issues and the symptoms such as a Trump or a Pence disappear. This is also why I have been adamantly opposed to identity politics. It is simply another side of the personality coin. I also agree that the focus on a specific issue should be fairly narrow so as not to dilute its impact.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 Although as the "one in charge" he should be still held responsible.

up
0 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gulfgal98 They're not going to fail. They're going swimmingly. They are campaign events pretending not to be campaign events, and the sincere, decent people who attend thinking that they AREN'T campaign events are being used, their moral outrage being mined to rehabilitate the Democrats' image.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

gulfgal98's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal My choice of words in that sentence did not adequately convey what I meant by fail. I completely agree that they partisan campaign events masking as popular outrage. By destined to fail, I mean that these events will fail the participants in that they will never achieve what most of the participants believe they are for.

So I completely agree with your comment.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gulfgal98 GG, I hope I didn't give offense. I'm extremely angry right now, and it's not at anybody here, certainly not at you.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

gulfgal98's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Sometimes I am not always clear with my words and they definitely needed to be clarified, not just for you but for anyone else reading them. It is definitely all good between us.

Righteous anger can be a good thing if it is channeled in the right direction. Sometimes I am frustrated in that I am not sure how to go about doing that myself. That is why I valued our little Peace vigil. It forced me to channel my own anger in a positive direction. Unfortunately our other participants aged out and it was just me and Don left. Finally Don (age 87) decided to disband it.

I do not know about others here, but the commentary in this essay has bee very valuable to me.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

gulfgal98's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal @Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Redacted due to being a double post! Ugh! Blush

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Gloria "Where the Boys Are" Steinem is a co-chair of your march, and Wall St Democrats speak from the stage. It's not like they "just showed up." Chris Hedges "just showed up." For that matter, John Kerry "just showed up." Steinem and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz didn't "just show up," they were running the thing and speaking center stage. Leaving aside the incredible lameness of having one of the people most responsible for Trump's presidency speaking onstage at an anti-Trump rally, corporate pro-Clinton Democrats organized this event and the corporate media gave it ample coverage. These are the same forces who destroyed the Sanders campaign with tactics that were reckless and fraudulent and gave us Trump. So it's not a co-opted grassroots event. It's more of a managed event, what the Sane Progressive calls "controlled opposition." It's one of the PTB's favorite tactics. And now that we've discovered that Hillary intends to run again in 2020, it's pretty clear that this is the continuation of the Clinton campaign.

I'm getting the message that such concerns are unimportant and that it's our moral principles and what's in our hearts when we protest that count.

So I only have a few more things to say before I stop talking about this issue. One will be in response to your essay here; the other will be in an essay I'm writing now, that I'll be posting Monday or Tuesday. After that, I'll drop it.

Hold all their feet to the fire.

How?

Hold them all responsible.

How?

Issue by issue.

Now this is one that deserves a deeper treatment than a comment can give, and I'll deal with it more deeply in my upcoming essay. I'll just say here that some issues and protests will get coverage, resources pumped into them, and massive turnouts, complete with the cops high-fiving the protesters. And others will not.

Independent of Political Pretence.
Not trying to be an asshole here, but genuinely unsure what that means.

Keep them on their damn toes make them work to be re-elected.

By showing up to their events and arguing that those aren't actually their events and have nothing to do with getting Hillary Clinton elected President in 2020.

Don't give them your money free of charge.
I'll drink to that. But what they want most is not your money, but your morality, because they have none of their own. They have plenty of money, but their sociopathy has a tendency to disgust people, so they need a moral alibi. They want to stand next to you while you display your moral principles so that they can look virtuous by association. In fact, so that they can look like virtuous freedom fighters rising up against a corrupt system, because they're at the highly moral march next to highly moral people.

Don't vote for them if they ignore you and tell them why.
Again, I'll drink to that. But don't be surprised if in 2020 you're choosing between Hillary and Pence.

Democracy should not be just about sporadic voting, especially when your votes are taken for granted in the phoney "left v right" neo-liberal fiction that we have, make them work for you.
But we're going to participate in the phoney "left v right" neo-liberal fiction by showing up at their prefabricated events.

Write letters, make phone calls and when you receive political verbiage in reply; repeat.

Why? As a jobs creation program for political staffers?

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Again, I'll drink to that. But don't be surprised if in 2020 you're choosing between Hillary and Pence.

I didn't choose between Hillary and Trump this time around why then?

Not trying to be an asshole here, but genuinely unsure what that means.

Pretty obvious really, don't pretend that it is a party issue, its often not, no matter how much lip service is given based on the reality of what they have done.

Hold them responsible

Up to the individual, I held Hillary responsible for he AUMF vote. Before that she had alienated me with her DADT and DOMA views. Don't vote for them....ever. The DP were more than happy with the AUMF vote. Tell them often.

So act as an individual and don't be surprised if you find people that agree with you despite political colouring.

I feel the rally lost any impact that it might have had with the usurpation by part of the duopoly, make rallies for something rather than just against.

up
0 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@LaFeminista Re: choosing between Hillary and Pence: fair enough, of course we can vote 3rd party or not vote for President at all. What I meant was: don't be surprised if those are the two major-party choices, and don't be surprised when you get one of them as President in 2020. Rallies like the Women's March, if they have any impact on future politics at all, will have the impact of helping to create Hillary vs Pence. Or possibly Hillary vs Ryan, if they manage to get Pence impeached as well (I don't think they'll manage that.)

Don't pretend it's a party issue--do you mean me, or the people organizing the thing? Either way, if the rally/event is focused on Trump, it can hardly help but be a party issue. Unless the Republicans join in, in which case it will be an "OMG Trump is so bad even Republicans don't want him" issue, which, in some ways, is even lamer than focusing on the parties. Because at that point, getting rid of this one bad individual becomes the goal and all the injustices being protested just provide a more intense motivation toward that goal. That didn't work well when we rose against Bush. We got rid of Bush--and the Republican control of DC, actually--and everything stayed the same.

Hold them responsible--I get what you mean here, now, and I agree (for what it's worth)--you're talking about keeping an independent mind and holding everyone to the same moral standard. Those are ideas worth dying on the barricades for. If the Clinton machine could create a pre-fab event based on them, I might even show up.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal as gulfgal said I detest identity politics it screws the whole thing up.

I'm not a Democratic Party member nor voter, yet Trump is still odious to the core of my being. I don't need a party to shelter behind, I need people able to act, yet they [the duopoly] do oh so little to stop the trend, so I'll vote "other" every time. Hopefully others will to.

up
0 users have voted.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal At the moment real surprise would them not being the candidates.

Wink

up
0 users have voted.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I have gotten into quite a few arguments with our local mayor and have a couple of times been successful. Grass roots will change the top eventually.

up
0 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

The big march in DC on January 21st was one event, and yes it was orchestrated by Clintonistas and was ridiculous.

That is not what is happening now. Now we have people responding directly with things like the airport protests. NYC taxi drivers didn't stop work last night because DWS told them to or because they give a crap about the Clintons or democrats or politicians. They did it all on their own because they are -- finally -- genuinely outraged.

People are righteously pissed off because of what the current government is doing, and are finally standing up. This is good. For so long we've complained that people are complacent and compliant... why won't they do something? Well now they are. Because the new boss, unlike the old boss, doesn't bother even trying to hide or sugarcoat the evil he's doing, he's proud of it in fact.

The question was always "what is it going to take the get people off their couches and into the streets?" Apparently the answer is, a president who makes such a grotesque and grandiose show of wielding his power over and disregard for humanity that it can't be ignored anymore.

For some it seems the attitude about this outpouring of protests is "Too little too late. You didn't protest before, so you can't start caring now." I really don't get that. If that's the case, then we really have nowhere to go, nothing to fight for, no reason to complain about or try to change anything. If trump is finally the bridge too far, that's good news.

This is a time to leverage the anger, and work with it toward lasting change. Of course I understand that the power structure, in particular democrats, will try to jump in and use it to their advantage too. Their duplicity needs to be exposed. But the anger of the people is real right now, it's not driven by partisan politics, it's driven by a gut-level disgust, which is long overdue. I'm all for it.

up
0 users have voted.

@CS in AZ

And I keep wondering if this sort of outrageous stimulus for citizen protest was planned/expected and this will wind up being framed by the PTB and the corporate media as 'Clinton support' rather than 'The People are demanding their right to democracy and their Constitutional rights be respected by an actual government of, by and for the people - not multi-millionaires/billionaires/corporate lackeys/CEOs - and these rights and protections guaranteed as the Constitution demands!'.

There are American protesters now that it's been made OK, by especially created illegal 'law', for any passer-by to kill, if they get in the way... last chance for any return to sanity and survival is now, I'm afraid, and the various (real) protesters are fighting for all of our lives and the hope of any future at all for their children.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Ellen North That's what I'm seeing too.

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Excellent points - all of them

up
0 users have voted.

"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

PriceRip's picture

          Some time ago I asked, "What one thing can we do?" Maybe this is it, possibly?

          If we can have no other effect on the process maybe we can all agree that each action be well defined. In every disipline I know about this is a central tenet. A well focused application of pressure achieves the desired result with minimal collateral damage.

          Maybe, that's the real value of this community.

up
0 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

@PriceRip

up
0 users have voted.
earthling1's picture

I uprated your essay because it does have some wise and interesting points.
However, the right to peacefully congregate has been, over the decades, under attack. Law enforcement has become adept at infiltrating protests to instagate trouble and therefore give "plausible deniability" to police abuses in responce.
Now, citizens face not only mace, pepper spray, rubber bullets, water hoses, but lately, neuron destroying sound cannons. Add to this the prospect of having to be held responsible for policing expenses, but also any loss of profit from a myraid of businesses.
The war on peaceful assembly is pretty much over. We lost.
Voting does absolutely no good. Even though they give us an enormous selection of crap candidates, none will work for the working men and women of this country.
Now, the Billionaire class is vacuuming up all the greenbacks they can get and shoving the rest of us into accepting digital currency and trading with plastic cards. It IS illegal to carry to much money on your persons and/or store in your home safe. The government can seize and confiscate on a whim.
The only way to counter this (and I truly fear for my personal safety saying this) is to begin a movement to reject the use of usury. Credit. This is where their wealth and power comes from. Return to a cash based society.
Carry cash with you instead of credit cards. I would rather be robbed of a few bucks, or even a couple a hundred than my credit cards. In fact, in my lifetime of nearly 70 years, I've never been robbed at all. Except by business people.
IMHO, if just a portion of the American people cut up their credit cards and went cash only, the big financial centers would collapse. If any red blooded American is still doing business with any TBTF bank, that person is part of the problem, not the solution.
Thank you for starting the conversation.

up
0 users have voted.

After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

@earthling1 @earthling1 we all pay for it as we go along in life, why make something that is a right for profit, oh I know, I'm needy.

The whole cycle of debt/usury crushes liberty.

up
0 users have voted.

@earthling1

YESSSSS! If we stop feeding them, they will weaken and begin to lose the power to attack us.

When we continue to support those that harm us, we actively encourage the abuse.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

CB's picture

long and sordid history of co-opting and manipulating them. With the advent of social media and a bought MSM, the ability to do this is greater than ever before.

The protests since Trump was elected appear to be part of a 'color' revolution due to the extended co-ordination across the entire country. There is considerable evidence that Soros (a master of instigating political protest and color revolutions around the world) is behind them. He gave $25 million dollars to Hillary's 2016 campaign.

Has Soros Declared a Full-out War on Trump?
...
On November 19, CBS News aired a report alleging that after Trump’s presidential victory there’s been over seven hundred cases of intimidation or harassment of hate. Against the backdrop of massive demonstrations that took place in November in a number of US cities against Donald Trump, there’s been an ever increasing number of reports claiming that those who organized them received funding from George Soros.

As it’s been noted by Politico, George Soros and other wealthy liberals who spent tens of millions of dollars trying to elect Hillary Clinton have held a three-day closed door meeting in Washington to retool the big-money left to fight back against Donald Trump. The conference, which kicked-off at Washington’s pricey Mandarin Oriental hotel, was sponsored by the influential Democracy Alliance donor club, and allegedly included appearances by leaders of most leading unions and liberal groups.
...

The Clintons And Soros Launch America's Purple Revolution
...
The Clintons, who both have received millions of dollars in campaign contributions and Clinton Foundation donations from Soros, were, in fact, helping to launch Soros’s «Purple Revolution» in America. The Purple Revolution will resist all efforts by the Trump administration to push back against the globalist policies of the Clintons and soon-to-be ex-President Barack Obama. The Purple Revolution will also seek to make the Trump administration a short one through Soros-style street protests and political disruption.
...

Soros’ affiliated organization MoveOn.org released the following press release yesterday afternoon:

Americans to Come Together in Hundreds Peaceful Gatherings of Solidarity, Resistance, and Resolve Following Election Results

Hundreds of Americans, dozens of organizations to gather peacefully outside the White House and in cities and towns nationwide to take a continued stand against misogyny, racism, Islamophobia, and xenophobia.

Tonight, thousands of Americans will come together at hundreds of peaceful gatherings in cities and towns across the nation, including outside the White House, following the results of Tuesday’s presidential election.

The gatherings – organized by MoveOn.org and allies – will affirm a continued rejection of Donald Trump’s bigotry, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and misogyny and demonstrate our resolve to fight together for the America we still believe is possible.

Within two hours of the call-to-action, MoveOn members had created more than 200 gatherings nationwide, with the number continuing to grow on Wednesday afternoon.

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/soros-trump-protests-revolution/#xWYgvf...

I believe we are at the beginning of a 'Purple' revolution that won't end until Trump is deposed or neutered and the US government is firmly back in the hands of the neoliberal/neocon elite. There are tens of millions$ behind this project - which is just pocket change to them.

up
0 users have voted.

@CB decades probably.

up
0 users have voted.

@LaFeminista

Do we have decades? Either for global survival or to wait while this powerful enemy completes this final step, having already blocked/corrupted over decades the checks and balances intended to keep government within bounds and The People, to whom the country belongs, in control over the delegated authority they lend to those transiently holding public office intended to serve the public interest?

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

They just come in the same Leftist Identity Starter Kit.

Every leftist protest I've ever seen says it's about one thing, then you show up and it's about a hundred other things. The more obscure the better. Why march against inequality when you can hold up signs for Differently Abled Salvadoran Trans Clerical Workers of Color, or The Campaign to Save the Endangered Anchovy-Farting Narwhals?

If we could simply pass legislation that's supported by large majorities of Americans--no revolution, just mainstream majority opinion--most people here would stroke out from happiness. Green energy. Expanded Social Security. Single payer. Pass laws that the majority of fat, asscrack-scratching, Bachelor-watching 'Muricuns want, and you'd think you were living in a socialist paradise by comparison to today.

But we don't pass those laws because the Owners keep that majority divided. And the Left helps. Because the Left keeps making itself into a religion, a package deal where you've got to sign onto the whole catechism. That's why it always fails.

See, all those majority opinions aren't necessarily supported by the same majority. Some folks who loves them some fine Medicare are also straight out climate science deniers, and vice versa. But the Left demands that you hold the party line on every single issue, else bugger off you cis racist misogynist deplorable scum.

All these things seem to go together for you because they are all markers of your tribe. That's why when you put them all together, they repel people who belong to other tribes.

If you want to succeed, focus on one policy at a time, so tribe loyalty doesn't get activated.

up
0 users have voted.

He was on Meat the Press taking credit for the protests AND said when asked that the DNC organization "was not a priority right now". Hunh? This is unsurprising and confirmes my opinion that HRC collected Wall Street Money to lose, and Rex T was their goal all along with the added benefit of peaceful protests in the media masking the gestapo in North Dakota which has gotten ZERO advocacy from elected leaders except tepid and pointless and late comments.

The Dems deliberately lost this one, as they have for years: they do not represent us: they manipulate. Plenty of on the ground information about the DNC meeting about leadership: suddenly flooded with people so no one is able to say what they stand for: this is just like Nevada. JUST LIKE NEVADA. Manipulating the process to kneecap Democracy and a fair vote or organization.

up
0 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@sorrowforhumans
IMHO She wanted it, wanted the Ring, the golden crown and scepter, the White Palace and everything. She wanted it badly enough to lie, cheat and steal for it, and to make formerly decent people lie, cheat and smear for her.

What the Deep State wanted is anybody's guess - whether they sold her short, or backed her "so far but no farther", or didn't care which of two interchangeable meat puppets won.

up
0 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Because it's always sad to see when genuine movements go down the road of political party affiliation and alignment.

If elected politicians want to endorse something or another, fine...but there also nned to be the freedom of space to be able to tell said politicians and political party's to fuck off.

up
0 users have voted.
Strife Delivery's picture

But "bad" things only happen under the other party's reign.

Bush's wars = bad.
Obama's wars = don't exist/had to be done/excuse train chugging along.

Even now, many refuse to admit the horrors that their party has committed.
They can't admit to it because the party is their identity. To criticize the party means to criticize themselves. They can't be shown to have made the decisions to lovingly embrace slaughtering children in the Middle East. So the cognitive dissonance emerges.

It seems far too many people are simply "gone". Nothing can change it for some. Obama CAN'T be a warmonger who should be tried for war crimes...no totally can't, he's cool. Some voices try to talk about issues. But far too many voices return those issues back to their party. We reject war...only when the other party is doing it! Not really the best bumper sticker.

up
0 users have voted.
SnappleBC's picture

here in Victoria, BC. She was rather surprised when I said I was glad she didn't go. I am, of course, solidly for women's rights, health-wise and other. But those protests were co-opted from the very beginning. It's not my sense that they have much to do with "women's rights" and instead are all about anti-Trump, pro-Democrats.

up
0 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard