OT 6-16-16: Jew Gun Nuts

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As I've said elsewhere, I'm what's called Jewish. I haven't been in a synogogue in years. I'm not even sure if "synagogue" is the right word or if I mean "temple". I know there are some Jewish holidays but the only one I ever paid attention to was Chanukkah. Eight days of light! Still, even though I'm not a religious Jew I still consider myself a member of that group of people, thus don't mind telling a few Jew jokes

Well, it seems young Rothschild Katz was sitting in the study with his father and said "Dad, I have a date tonight. Can you give me $100?" The elder Rothschild Katz replied "$50? I'm not giving you $25."

On a different occasion, young Rothschild Katz got an erection, walked into a wall and broke his nose.

Shaharazade and I had a long discussion the other night (too long, if you ask me!) about what we can and can't say here at c99p. One thing we agreed on is this question to those who want to be restrictive: who do you think we are? This is not dKos. If you think it's dKos Jr. and bring dKos attitudes here then it will become dKos. We're not enemies here. If I say something incredibly stupid (I might have...and just seconds ago) you can tell me, as a friend would. Not as an adversary.

The idea that I/P is too touchy so we can't talk about it makes no sense to me. It's a complicated issue that can't be solved by avoiding it. It's something the people in that region should be re-examining daily instead of taking positions and stubbornly sticking to them. And if, as I believe, they should be talking about the ins and outs, pros and cons of each possible solution, so should we. Every once in awhile we should try that old debating trick, arguing for the opposite point of view. That can loosen up the stiffness of our positions, get us to consider alternatives. But if we can't talk about it then we get nowhere.

It's the same with guns. To those who think that banning sales of assault rifles will start the slippery slope to banning guns, thus let's not have any new laws, that would be the same as saying banks shouldn't be regulated because then banks would disappear. Speed limits should not exist because then we're on the way to never driving. I can't think of a single thing that vanished because laws were tightened up. Can you? Let me know!

And what about that phrase "gun nuts"? I'm comfortable with that being used for those who want zero new gun laws. Know why? Because it's nuts! I think guns are stupid. You might disagree. You might want one because you're concerned about your safety. But why have two? Three? Why allow assault rifles? That's nuts, I tell you. Nuts!

Shaz says she's getting tired of this whole political scene. It's crooked, it's rigged, it's a fraud, nothing changes, nothing gets done. She's so fed up with it she kept telling me about it, for hours! Like from 7 pm to 11 pm, so I thought I'd talk about Bobby Freeman from 11 pm to 3 am. Not knowing much about him, except that he just had a birthday, I had to repeat the few facts I had. Some of those "facts" were things I guessed! Like that he's from San Francisco. I thought he must be because there's a plaque on the Condor Club saying he invented the Swim there. I see (thanks Google) that the Condor Club is still there. I'm shocked! Anyway, the Swim (once again)...written by Sly Stone before he was Sly Stone.

Betty Lou Got a New Pair of Shoes

So yeah, he's from San Francisco. As enhyrdra lutris showed us the other day, his biggest hit was "Do You Wanna Dance". The label says "Want to" instead of "Wanna" but since Freeman wrote it and says it's "Wanna" then it's "Wanna"! By the way, although his first name is Bobby he isn't what you'd call a "Bobby". That's reserved for Bobby Rydell, Bobby Vinton, Bobby Vee and a bunch of guys whose names weren't Bobby at all, like Frankie or Fabian or Brian. It should also be noted that Bobby Darin was not a "Bobby". Anyway, Bobby Freeman, from San Francisco, was 17 when he had his first hit, 23 when he had his last big hit, still singing at age 76.

Here he sounds like Smokey before Smokey was Smokey with a beautiful tune

Since this is an open thread I want to talk about another subject entirely and that's the cannabis legalization here in Oregon. It occurred to me that since dope became legal last October you'd think there'd be stoners falling all over the place, crashing their cars, becoming heroin addicts and all that, as opponents argued. Yet that's not the case at all. We hardly notice any difference. The main changes are that the state gets its cut of the profits and people aren't paranoid about cops busting them for possession. I think both of those are good things.

And now, most importantly, it takes a lot to run this site and JtC has done a fantastic job. But it can't be maintained unless we support it financially so send some money, cabbage, kale, lettuce, moola, bacon. Paypal works, so do checks!

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riverlover's picture

Interesting questions/minirant, Shah.

Hours after I awoke this morning (we had overnight, well-behaved rain) I went up to awake the pup. She sleeps late, growing. I had to lengthen her collar and her Seresto collar because she's growing. She wakes up and yawns and rubs her face with front paws like a cat. She also rubs against walls, like a cat. Not my legs, she bites my feet, dog. She had her second obedience class last night and came back exhausted. early bed. Not sure that learning occurred.

I have spent over a week now trying to email a signed contract to an attorney in Canada. I cannot find a witness, guess that says something about my local friend base. I am suing for fraud. Mucho bucks poured into a hole. Contractor, I was informed by a neighbor, went to the cottage with OPP escort to remove rental equipment. Or something. I have not seen the disaster, too hard. New doors, he has a key, I do not. My realtor does, and a neighbor does. Holy shit.

Cornell Lab of Ornithology has job openings. One is an appointment to make a database of pictures of charismatic creatures. We all have a sense of what those are. Personally, I find lichens charismatic. I am now decorating all my potted plant soil with bark pops growing lichens. Some of them green up with water, very satisfying to human-control color. I also have lichen rocks, but I leave them outside.

I have to determine whether it is possible to buy garbage can lids separate from bottoms. Raccoons and car tires do a job on lids. I prefer them intact and weather-proof. I am offering a broken one in my recycling bins today. Are Rubbermaid products recyclable? Dog fast asleep, again. Growing. New teeth soon. Good orthodontia for deciduous teeth. Well-spaced as the jaw lengthened and straight.

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OLinda's picture

Boulder, CO just north of me requires everyone to use bear proof trash containers. Just started enforcing it yesterday. I worry sometimes about a bear coming through my yard. I've seen deer and the police did a reverse 911 call to let my neighborhood know there was a mountain lion roaming around but I didn't see him.

Boulder.gov

...

Starting Wednesday, June 15, the City of Boulder will begin enforcing the bear protection ordinance in the entire area west of Broadway and south of Sumac Avenue. This includes all single-family residences, apartment buildings and commercial buildings. Residents and businesses must obtain and properly use bear-resistant waste containers (such as trash bins and dumpsters) or build and use waste enclosures.

You can receive fines for not latching your container.
Fines for noncompliance--and no warnings
Code enforcement officers will start issuing fines immediately, and violators will not receive warnings. The fines are:

• $250 for the first offense
• $500 for the second offense
• $1,000 for the third offense.

Bears are putting themselves in danger by leaving their natural habitat to scavenge for food in Boulder. In recent years several bears have been killed and more have been relocated because of public safety concerns.

The intent of the ordinance is to protect bears by removing trash as a food source. Securing trash and compost will help protect bears by decreasing the accessibility of these food sources in areas near the foothills.

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wilderness voice's picture

I suppose that would be metal with secure latches. After a few bear raids I put an electric fence around mine.

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riverlover's picture

(unless they be dinosaur birds). Reminds me to check my mousetraps.

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RuralLiberal's picture

on our property a few years ago.

We live in northern Minnesota, amidst the forests and lakes. Three years ago, a mountain lion moved into the wooded area adjacent to our horse pasture. Boy, the horses were on DEFCON 4, RED ALERT for a couple of weeks.

We'd hear that mountain lion call at night, and the sound truly makes your blood run cold. It sounded like a woman screaming for her life. Thankfully, he moved on after a couple of weeks.

About this time last summer we had a bobcat, too. He seemed to spend a lot of time in the trees, often climbing up and just sitting in a tree. He was quiet, though. Strangely, the horses weren't nearly as freaked out with him around.

We also get bears, though we haven't had any recently. They tend to make a lot of mischief, but aren't any real problem. Our little pomeranian and peke-a-pom get all worked up when there's a bear around. Those little gals think they're badass!!

Living out in the sticks with Mother Nature's big critters is pretty cool.

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"Stand Up! Keep Fighting!" - Paul Wellstone

Ken in MN's picture

...supposed to lead to all heterosexual marriages immediately ending in divorce, as everyone was supposed to leave their spouse for a member or their own gender? I'm so disappointed because I was hoping to get invited to a ton of really fabulous weddings...

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I want my two dollars!

Alison Wunderland's picture

Hey, Ken! That's the good news. The others are fatal.

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Bisbonian's picture

You left out banjo players.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

riverlover's picture

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Lookout's picture

to Banjera. That's what I heard.

uncledavemontage.jpg

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

I thought your jokes were funny. I'm with you. We should be able to talk about anything, and we should all be entitled to our own opinions. I own guns. I support gun regulation. I think gun nut is totally appropro for people who are armed nuts.

A blind guy walks into a blonde biker bar. He says to the bartender, "do you want to hear a blonde joke"? Bartender says, "sure, if you want to get your @ss kicked. I'm 6' and can beat you up with one hand. That blonde over there is 6'2 and 300 lbs., and those three blondes over there are all 6'4" and champion weight lifters. Do you still want to tell your joke?" The blind guys says, "well no, not if I have to tell it five times".

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

featheredsprite's picture

I'm usually a little wary of jokes that start with "A guy walks into a bar . . " but this one I really enjoyed.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

shaharazade's picture

I can remember except an assortment of lawyer ones is 'A guy walks into a bar with a herring on his head. The bartender say's what will you have? The herring says Water!Water!'

'It's a knickknack Patty Black give the frog a loan' is the punch line from another joke that is way to long and convoluted.

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hecate's picture

joke that I know that is Mean goes like this:

Q. Why are there so many tree-lined streets in France?

A. So the German army can march in the shade.

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Haikukitty's picture

used to tell:

"With a pig this good, you can't eat him all at once."

It was something horrible, about eating a leg at a time, because he was such a smart, good pig.

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Haikukitty's picture

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riverlover's picture

Have any of you seen "Love it or List it"? On HGTV and W in Canada. They are advertising for prospects on Wolfe Island, where I have my disaster cottage. Victims willing to be on TV. My response is hell, yeah! I had to send a precis of my sorry tale thru Microsft Exchange, which I had been avoiding.

I can grovel on demand, if it betters me. Although I do have to check in with my attorney there, persuing a fraud case.

Canadian TV shows are always so nice. And I can mimic Ontarian english, but for TV purposes I should stick to my not-Southern accent.

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mjsmeme's picture

those 'get yr place fixed up' shows (and the food channel) are my go to place for avoiding vampires, violence and blood, that seems to be the other alternative. Good Luck - hope you're the winner!

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riverlover's picture

another Jewboy, conflicted.

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Hillbilly Dem's picture

when I was in college, a thousand years ago, there was a great poster of Kinky and his band. They were planting the Texas flag, a' la Iwo Jima. But the lone star on the Texas flag was the Star of David.

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

riverlover's picture

I have known many.

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mjsmeme's picture

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mjsmeme's picture

roses r red.jpg
this in the mail. I got the sense that she was afraid of what the neighbors might think. Told her to relax, afterall they already hired a black guy.

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OLinda's picture

and c99ers. Hope all is well with everybody as much as possible.

We're in a heat wave. 90s F for a few days past, and expected to continue all week. Clear and sunny, no rain.

Haven't heard of any pot problems here in Colorado either, Shahryar. Haven't looked it up in awhile, but last I looked, tons of money is pouring in.

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skod's picture

for the cities/counties that have issued permits, and very few problems. There's one neighborhood up in Denver that is up in arms about the *smell* of a dispensary/grow operation: but hilariously, this neighborhood also has the stockyards that are part of the National Western Stock Show complex, which have critters (and therefore critter poop) in them periodically year round, and the Purina Puppy Chow mill, which 24/7 has a fragrance that is *uniquely and unforgettably* its own. Unless that operation is doing large-scale chemical extraction of oils from the plants, I can't imagine how the place could stink more than Puppy Chow- but hey, it's not my backyard.

There's one dispensary in Aurora that has moved into a dead bank building. It is surreal, wandering in to look at the (very tidy, rivaling an Apple store) displays, and realizing that you complete your transaction at the teller windows... The world appears to be a different place on the other side of that divide!

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OLinda's picture

sounds very cool. Smile Strange, and cool.

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mjsmeme's picture

Amsterdam, bellying up to the bar, chatting with the guy behind the counter about what he recommends, and ordering a $10 bag of it that you can take home or sit at a table and smoke there. Just part of life in an enlightened environment.

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and that is the most negative side effect anyone can document from the Colorado experience!

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skod's picture

I'd like to investigate that further, since I find that I'm dragged into conversations (with rightwingers, if course) where I'm forced to defend Colorado's legalization more often than I'm comfortable with. If there are credible resources that document that, I'd like to know about them. Thanks!

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TrueBlueinWDC's picture

Vs gateway drug for more drugs. I read that to mean that the biggest side effect of legalizing is that more people are heading to CO. I may be wrong, but that interpretation made me chuckle.

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"Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change." Stephen Hawking

NEW: http://www.twitter.com/trueblueinwdc

skod's picture

I'm so used to "the sky is falling!" kneejerk anti- reactions that I'd gone noseblind (DAMN that puppy chow!) to the humorous side. Mea maxima culpa, and my apologies to Arachnet. Totally missed the point.

Yup, there's no question that cannabis tourism is a huge thing. My wife and I were in a favorite haunt downtown on a Sunday back during the winter, having an Adult Beverage, when we encountered some folks who'd come into town from Green Bay to see their team play the Broncos. It was just after noon, and we were just having a glass of wine prior to going to see the symphony. And these guys had just made their first-ever trip to a dispensary, were about halfway into some edibles, and were two hefty drinks in to boot- and the barkeep was very gently and professionally shutting them off while counseling them to head back to their hotel room, soonest, before Things Developed Further.

They shuffled off to Buffalo, holding each other up as best they could, and we had a good conversation with the barkeep about that: he said that is was very, very common. The combination of the altitude, which dramatically increases the impact of alcohol, and unfamiliar edibles, which take a couple of hours to actually take effect at the best of times, can be pretty intense for folks coming here for the first time. I'm sure that those folks had a very interesting time, but I *highly* doubt that they made it to the game...

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mjsmeme's picture

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skod's picture

"how did we survive our youth, anyway?" And for me, that encompasses the ages of birth through about 55. Moderation in all things- including, of course, moderation... (;-)

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mjsmeme's picture

ones was not only okay but way better than being a standard bearer for the status quo - and I've got some real deep and visible scars to prove it. Lack of patience and moderation can easily be found among my many character flaws.

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Alison Wunderland's picture

Smoking pot leads to fornication leads to more babies leads to more adult people?

Is that what you mean?

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enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

riverlover's picture

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Raggedy Ann's picture

Big fire in the Manzano mountains, here. I hear it started in the Fourth of July campground, which is my very favorite hiking trail head, so I'm worried about the damage. They are evacuating the mountain villages as the fire has spread to 2000 acres. I could see the flames along the mountain ridge last night, and it was distressing. The smoke is horrific, as the fire started Tuesday and is 0% contained. No rain in site and a heat wave to boot. Sigh.

Have a beautiful day, my peeps!

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“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

OLinda's picture

a decade of data. Chinese called and said, 'Don't worry, we backed it up.'

-- Conan O'Brien

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mjsmeme's picture

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Big Al's picture

Oh ya, that videocast or whatever to his "supporters".

"Hey supporters, how ya doin'? I'm here to inform you that I'm taking this all the way to the moon. And if the moon doesn't do it, we're going to Mars! (applause). Damn straight! We'll gather momentum there and go to fucking Saturn if we have to! (applause). In fact, it's time ladies and gentlemen, to go Space Trucking!"

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OLinda's picture

the things people will say to lead into a song. Wink

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OLinda's picture

going to concede (in the video tonight) or endorse Hillary. He will keep his options open to the convention. You never know what might happen. At this point, I don't expect a break, but it has been a weird year, and more weird things could happen.

On the other hand, it makes me nervous that he just might, because why else is he having the video talk? Waaaaaaa.

I guess we will hear about how his talk with Hillary went. Probably very well, so we'll hear nice things about her. I hope I don't get ill.

Are you going to watch, Al?

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Big Al's picture

concede or endorse tonight, that they're still working on his exit plan. I probably won't watch, I eradicated the channels on my TV that go to political and news shows so I'd have to go to my neighbor's house and I don't like to go to my neighbor's house unless I really have to.

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OLinda's picture

That's how I'm planning to watch although I haven't looked it up yet.

I sure understand if you're not into watching it though.

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Big Al's picture

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OLinda's picture

Well, he has a career waiting for him if he wants it, eh?

Great writing too.

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mjsmeme's picture

Yay, free lunches for one and all!!!!!!

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Lookout's picture

I'm afraid I ruffled feathers when I threw out the term gun nut the other day. I've been thinking about how to better help folks understand my meaning.

How about If you own more than 100 weapons and over 5000 rounds of ammo you might be a gun nut? Now I'm sure folks out there might be thinking...you're the nut believing there are people like that. Sorry to disappoint, but there are many folks like that. They have big safes full of weapons and ammo. That's the type I have in mind when I use the term gun nut. I might also mention I have a friend with 1000's of comics, another with 100s of 78 records, and so on. In these terms they would be comic nut and old record nut..?

I was glad I had a weapon two summers ago when we had a rabid coon wandering around. So I'm not in favor of a total ban. May be moderation would be a good start?

I don't have much experience with Jewish gun nuts, but according to wiki:

Israel Weapon Industries's small arms are some of the most popular in the world. The Uzi submachine gun is arguably the most popular submachine gun in the world, because of its compact nature and reliability. Overall, the Uzi has the highest sales statistics of all modern submachine guns, worldwide.

It appears that Israel lost it's contract to provide security at the Brazilian Olympics.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/charlotte-silver/brazil-cancels-2-b...

They had planned to use drones similar to the way Gaza is watched.

I'm with Shaz, I can complain for hours about how the system is rigged and throw my hands up. But every now a then I have a glimmer of hope. The election fraud law suit by TrustVote.org will include the media companies as complicit in the crime...accessory after the fact! I bet they won't report that on the news.

Have a good day all you c99ers!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Big Al's picture

well over 100 guns and made all their own ammo and that they were definitely not nuts?

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Shahryar's picture

with no other information I can only imagine what their situation is.

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Big Al's picture

Maybe that's part of the problem, we assume when we don't know. We all do it in our own ways.
I'm not sure how much detail I should provide here as to who they are. But they started in their teens back when half the vehicles in the high school parking lot during hunting season were trucks with gun racks and guns displayed in the rear window. A second led to a third led to a fourth and a hobby. A hobby like any other relative to the process of collecting them, learning about them, using them, etc. They fell into the gun culture, went to gun shows, got their concealed weapons permits, other training. They are the most knowledgeable and security conscious and safe people regarding guns you'll find.
Both have 2-3 large Wells Fargo safes they keep everything locked in. I would trust both of them with my life and would want no one else with me if I had a problem. One of them I've known for 59 years (I'm 60)
As for me, I've never owned a gun, only shot them a few times during the Navy and a couple times with aforementioned "people".

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Lookout's picture

they may be quite intelligent, as are my friends who own that sort of weaponry, but they self identify as a gun nuts. In my part of the world the term nut must not be as derogatory as those who took offense. To be nuts about something means you're crazy about it, love it, are obsessed.

Here's one online definition -
to be extremely or excessively enthusiastic about; be fervent in one's admiration of:
Both of them are nuts about chamber music.
to be deeply in love with:
He's nuts about his new girlfriend.

So much for semantics. For something completely different:

Hey Al, did you see the info on the fall meeting? http://worldbeyondwar.org/ sounded like something that might interest you. All the best to you and your gun toting and reloading buddies.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Big Al's picture

people of all kinds. I can deal with the suits and ties and I can party with the long hairs and bikers. I can drink beers with the dudes in Burns (I have), and I can drink wine and smoke weed with the "Evergreeners" (look that up). In high school it was the jocks and the heads. I was both.
I'm a firm believer in everyone having a voice, a say in how they can live their life on this earth. I believe we have to understand each other in order to do that.

I don't have a problem with the term nuts per se, it's more the assumptions that go along with it. Not saying that about you, it's what we all do.

Swanson and them in D.C. huh. I've been trying to get more active with Vets for Peace, I see they're on the agenda. I'll go to the next meeting here in Portland to see what's up. Thanks for the link.

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featheredsprite's picture

where participants are randomly assigned a side. It could lead to some interesting ideas.

For instance, I'm a pacifist, but I really don't see the difference between allowing myself to be killed and me killing another guy. The end result is that a person is dead, right?

[Actually, most pacifists I've know are not floor mats. They do aggressively try to resolve the situation before it morphs into actual violence.]

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

mimi's picture

I am a German non-religious protestant (lutheran) Christian as much as you are a non-religious Jew.. In Germany I am called with regards to my affiliation to a religion "evangelisch", our protestantism based on Martin Luther, that's all I know about it. So I was baptized as a baby and confirmed as a teenager. If you want a pastor to marry you or bury you, you need to be affiliated with a religion and its churches in Germany, either Roman Catholic or Lutheran Protestant. If you declare your affiliation that was given to you as a baby, you pay a small tax automatically once you start working. If you don't want to do it, you have officially to leave the church, it's up to you and you can do so freely without repercussions. It's your right to choose what you want to be.

Like you, I just acknowledge just one religious holiday and that is/was Christmas, though we never went to church during Christmas Eve or Christmas day. No midnight mass like the Catholic Church has etc.

We simply didn't go to church, though my father was active in the "Kirchenvorstand" or something like that. He used to say, "if you have been at the arsehole of the world, you know that you need something like a belief in God, everything else is your personal, private choice and nobody's business".

He too never went to church. My mother never said a word about religion, churches or faith. She simply never talked about it. We as kids believed and I still do believe today, she had seen too many pastors. priests, bishops and clergy failing during the wwII not living up to what they preached and taught.

She accepted the cultural norms of getting married, buried, baptized and confirmed, without saying anything. I think we learned that way to respect whatever a person chooses to do with regards to their religious beliefs. So we went to church to get married, baptize our babies, put our totally uninterested teenage kids through the confimation and we went to church to get buried and have a place at the cemetery (has to be bought for a period of 25 years or so).

Some of the people had something like a "click or get-it" in their lives and actually became believers in a good sense, others had another "click or get-it" and left the church, because they just couldn't believe and couldn't take "the books" literally, nor had they have the experience that a pastor actually could help them "understanding the teachings of the "books".

I have witnessed several marriages and funerals over the years in my home country, Germany, witnessed family members officially leaving the church, witnessed family members crossing or being heavily brainwashed into cults and /or extreme Catholicism, witnessed Catholic raised in-laws arranging with protestant spouses for a marriage ceremony in the protestant churches etc.
All in all, nobody had a real affiliation or belief into anything other than some basic moral guidelines all the religions claim to have and basically most people have as a conscious in them anyhow by their dna.

I became aware about the role the church and religion had for me, only through living in the United States. Before coming here I really didn't care and didn't think about it.

But I couldn't just stand either churches here in the US, neither the evangelicals, nor the baptists, nor the Anglicans, nor the Roman Catholic or anything else, I got so tired of all those nominations and said to myself how on earth can you quarrel about different religious texts. Completely lost me in the way they interpreted everything literally to the single letter of the books and to the pennies of their profits (for some churches at least). So, I remained without a church to go, and without a religious education of some church groups or so.

oh, I had to talk more about it, but it gets too long.

What I really wanted to say here, is that because I am German and very aware of our historical guilt of my father's and grandfather's generation of the holocaust, there is no way to talk about it for me on forum like dailykos, or pretty much on any online, allegedly anonymous online blog.

When I began reading more on dailykos, I just got the two "rules", don't discuss the I/P problems and never, ever talk something about Hitler, Nazis, don't violate the Godwin law etc. etc.

I was silently watching and reading and got more amazed by the day. I obeyed by the rules, and out of fear to get caught up in those diaries, I didn't read ANY I/P diary and stood out of commenting at all on anything that touched Germany's history, Nazis, Hitler, Israel, anti-semitism etc. And the more time I spent over there, the more senseless I considered these regulations.

I am just here to tell you that I support your point of view very much, ie that

The idea that I/P is too touchy so we can't talk about it makes no sense to me. It's a complicated issue that can't be solved by avoiding it. It's something the people in that region should be re-examining daily instead of taking positions and stubbornly sticking to them. And if, as I believe, they should be talking about the ins and outs, pros and cons of each possible solution, so should we.

yes, exactly, otherwise you end up like me, never read and get informed about anything with regards to the I/P conflict other then it's, especially for a German with their baggage of historical guilt, too "dangerous" to talk about it.
That is really baloney.

The opposite of it is also baloney. But I am too tired to tell you a story, which demonstrate why that is the case as well. Another time.

Just one more thing, the rule here is "do not be an asshole". And attack the message but not the messenger, ie here meant to be the author of an essay or a specific commentator in a thread.

Both rules make sense, but that doesn't mean they will help much. Because even though you do not attack a messenger directly, you, as a reader, still feel you are a member of a group of people, like being a Jew, or being a Christian, or being a white person or a person of color or being a woman, feminist etc.

Because of that, even if something wasn't an attack on a specific person, but a general message attack, people, who read it, feel emotional and hurt about it, as they feel themselves as members of a group of people, who has been attacked through that message. There is no way around that.

After having read so much online, I simply do not believe, that readers don't feel an affiliation to any kind of group of people. There is the dna driven need to be a member of a group of people. Any message attack on that group of people, pains most people in the same way as if they were attacked personally.

That's the reason why free speech online has such magnifying intense effect on any reader. People need to discuss that fact more than the actual issues.

This emotional pain people experience in the virtual conversation is what makes the medium so dangerous. Basically you can witness it happening here as well. It's very hard to try to minimize that pain.

The efforts of the moderators to come up with simple DBAA and don't attack the messenger are reasonable, but unfortunately it will not help as much as one would think. We have to live with that, consciously.

But there is always something one can be "soothed" with, music, art, food, critters, nature pics etc. All good.

So, for the heck of it, say what you want to say, try to be kind and that's it. No word police, no quarrels over which kind of word someone has used. It's usually not worth it. Try to express yourself in ways that you would feel comfortable with when reading a comment or essay from someone who has a different opinion than you have, I think will do it. And don't forget the forgetfulness of people. Try to make clear snark, jokes, lingo and abbreviations you know as a member of one group of people. Not everyone is member of your group. If you want to be for the 99percent then you have to consider that not all of the 99p belong to a specific group of people you happen to be member of.

Sorry for the long messy message.

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Shahryar's picture

thank you for taking the time to share these thoughts.

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mimi's picture

and has to send him to prison. WTF. Was this discussed at all here? Just because print media journalist did some good investigative reporting and it was published in the NYT and USA Today doesn't make it bad journalism.

How Donald Trump Bankrupted His Atlantic City Casinos, but Still Earned Millions - By RUSS BUETTNER and CHARLES V. BAGLIJUNE 11, 2016
or
How Donald Trump Bankrupted His Casinos, Left Contractors Unpaid, Ruined Investors & Made Millions

A series of new investigative articles have revealed Donald Trump’s shady business dealings in Atlantic City, his failure to pay contracted workers over the years, and his decision to partake in what may amount to "calculated tax fraud"—a felony. We begin by looking at how Donald Trump bankrupted his Atlantic City casinos, but still earned millions. "Even as his companies did poorly, Mr. Trump did well. He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acu Dishwashers, Plumbers, Waiters & Lawyers: Hundreds Accuse Trump of Failing to Pay for Their Workmen," wrote Russ Buettner and Charles Bagli in The New York Times. They join us to discuss their piece, "How Donald Trump Bankrupted His Atlantic City Casinos, But Still Earned Millions"



Dishwashers, Plumbers, Waiters & Lawyers: Hundreds Accuse Trump of Failing to Pay for Their Work

A new USA Today exposé finds hundreds of former employees and contractors have accused Republican presidential presumptive nominee Donald Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Victims have included a dishwasher in Florida, a glass company in New Jersey, a carpet company, a plumber, 48 waiters, dozens of bartenders at his resorts and clubs, and even several law firms that once represented him in these labor lawsuits. We speak to Steve Reilly, an investigative reporter and data specialist for the USA Today Network. His new exclusive is called "Hundreds Allege Donald Trump Doesn’t Pay His Bills."



I would like investigative reporting like that for the comany of Elon Musk, Tesla. Well, I guess I can dream.
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gulfgal98's picture

We spent the last several days in Orlando where my husband had a conference. As we were driving down from Tallahassee, we heard the news about the massacre at the nightclub in Orlando. It was almost surreal. A huge area of the downtown was blocked off for days. The mood was very somber at the conference. We were in the exhibition hall when there was a call for one minute of silence. Immediately several hundred people stopped talking and you could hear a pin drop in the place.

We got back to the heat and humidity of Tallahassee yesterday evening and to non-functioning AC. Grrrrr... In eleven years in NC we have only turned on the AC twice, both times for house guests. In Tallahassee, it is hard to function without AC in the summer. Luckily, it rained today so that will cool things down.

I hope everyone here has a wonderful day.

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"I am done with it all. Life is just a charade in which we are all unknowing pawns." ~gulfgal98

I Hate Acronyms. So WTF is I/P? Israel / Palestine from context? If so, what is gained by abbreviating it? You're a wordy guy, surely a few extra keystrokes won't kill you.

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Shahryar's picture

I thought everyone knew I/P was Israel/Palestine but now I see that's not true. I hereby resolve to never use acronyms again, not even as a joke.

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Lookout's picture

mean okay? Joking!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Shahryar's picture

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gulfgal98's picture

I am a retired land use planner and the planning field is awash in acronyms. I am acronym challenged and hate acronyms because I am constantly translating in my mind every time I see one. But us planners used to talk in acronyms. There were so many of them and it was so bad that we made up a cheat sheet for the public to use at our public hearings. Lol

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"I am done with it all. Life is just a charade in which we are all unknowing pawns." ~gulfgal98

mjsmeme's picture

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hecate's picture

I am for regular reportage of the shah/shaz conversations. ; )

And I am for these Jew Gun Nuts. They do not serve in any military, and when the police try to come to arrest one for "draft dodging," they make the police go away. If everybody did this, there would be no militaries. And thus a helluva lot fewer gun nuts.

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Shahryar's picture

We watch lots of British stuff, movies, tv shows, all from our public library, and those Brits seem to love their World War One nostalgia. Well, they love their glory days. They like to present stories from WWI and then after the war when Britain wasn't yet the lapdog to the US.

So every once in awhile we see things like that "Great War" stopping so the Brits and Germans could play soccer, then later go back to killing each other and you think "why didn't they say 'no more'?" Why didn't they just walk away? And if their officers started shooting at them then they'd know who the real enemy was.

I remember well in the Vietnam days when many chanted "Excuse us, but we've decided not to participate!"

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hecate's picture

doing the film-reviewing thing, there was an interesting period during which just about every film to come out of Britain, that was set in that period, accepted as matter of fact that everyone in England involved in WWI was destroyed. This was either right up front (Behind The Lines), off in a subplot (The Englishman Who Went Up A Hill But Came Down A Mountain), or dominating the backstory (A Month In The Country).

This fellow sets forth something that is not often talked about, for obvious reasons. And that is that the real reason WWI ended is because the French and German armies were disappearing. Soldiers were leaving the line in the tens of thousands. They'd had it. Some were talking of marching on their own capitals: the French on Paris, the Germans on Berlin. That simply wouldn't do: such things could get out of hand. So, that was that. War is over.

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shaharazade's picture

that just keep being rolled out every time some nasty ass empire or the inbred 1% families get in a power struggle? I do not believe for a minute this is the normal order or natural order of humans. Over and over through out history we have large swaths of people who decide they get to rule the world and proceed to reek havoc and death on the humanity at large. these days the technological advances we love so much have not at all kept up with human beings so called progress. Armed to the teeth we are and not at all interested in evolving. What's so funny about peace love and understanding? Violence begets violence and blow back is a feature not a bug. Manifest destiny, that's a nasty ant like concept.

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Aardvark's picture

I thought you could be Persian. Your handle is made of two words, "king-friend," though with incorrect grammar.

Perhaps you are descended from the once-vibrant Jewish community of Iran.

Whatever the truth may be, I shall never call you shah mat.

Peace and love be with you, reader.

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Shahryar's picture

my darling wife uses the name shaharazade. She got into this web commenting a few years before I did. When I started posting I took the name of her sadistic mass murdering husband, while my mind compartmentalized, ignoring the sadistic mass murdering part.

My niece took one of those tests and found a lot of Iraqi DNA. I imagine I probably would too. How long ago is that from? Don't know but it's very interesting.

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mjsmeme's picture

It's like watching a car wreck; horrific but you can't take your eyes off it. The trials and tribulations of a group of wealthy 30-something Persian Jews who make $$$ selling real estate in LA, where, if your a woman, wearing your clothes 3 sizes too small is apparently appropriate for all occasions.
Nevertheless, I'm totally into Persian miniatures, erotic or not. Mosking

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shaharazade's picture

Their culture and history is fascinating. Cable shows with slimy 30 something vulgar yuppie women selling high end real estate porn featuring scary women (or men from) from all cultures, LA or anywhere, are prolific. Then there is the Bright Young Things including silicon valley geeks that moves into cities like SF London and eats them. I don't have a TV so I no longer watch the lifestyles of the rich and famous and their attendant chefs or realtor's.

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shaharazade's picture

the OT the place that when the treads get to hot to handle I use as a hidey hole? /s Armed and dangerous, describes both America and Israel. Why does anyone need an Uzi or any automatic assault rifle/gun in their gun collection safe? I guess the feel their right to the pursuit of happiness is a

Bowling for Columbine

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hecate's picture

have a gun, your penis is big and powerful.

It says so in the bible.

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JEW gun nuts.... Didn't find it.

Like you I am a JEW by Birth but can't remember the last time I attended services that weren't connected to a wedding, death or bar mitzvah Smile

I DO bristle at diaries about I/P issues, mainly because most of them desolate into negative comments about JEWS in General instead of political discussions about Likkud.

I am NOT a fan or a supporter of Bibi or Likkud but I will not tolerate I/P discussions about The JEWS. It's ANTISEMETIC because The JEWS doesn't exist. There are liberal. Moderate and conservative Jews... And we have very different opinions about the Middle East. for this reason I steer clear of I/P diaries UNLESS I happen on a comment by someone who forgets that THE JEWS is not a correct way to address Jews. WHICH Jews is the commentor talking about... Jews like me and Bernie ?

Had an interesting conversation with one of my neices a while ago... She is a lovely young lady from a very Observant wealthy Fam. Out of the blue she sent me a text asking if I was still supporting Bernie. I texted back... YES and she responded why and I said "because I would like to see a JEWISH president of the USA before I die... Her response "I never thought of it that way, me too"

(Smile)

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Orwell was an optimist

shaharazade's picture

Jew/gun nuts was a reference to two different essay threads on the same day that both caught on fire. One was about usage of the Rothschild's name as bankster's that are hooked up to the Clinton's and turned into a heated discussion about how it was anti-semantic because they were/are a Jewish family The gun nut essay thread was from a essay about the insanity of not banning assault rifles since their only purpose is killing lot's of people quickly. I read both of them and tried to keep my mouth shut as the smoke was getting heavy. I found myself getting into dkos mode and my hair started smoking.

That night Shah had to hear ad naseaum about it along with my disgust about the rigged election and how people were just crazy with fear and loathing. So he said I'm going to write my OT about Jew, gun nuts and bobby Fuller I said you don't have the nerve. He did just that while approaching the subject of how easy it is to slip back into the dkos mode and start typing in caps and yelling at each other.So this was a meta essay about figuring out how to talk with each other about complicated issues with out devolving into knee jerk overly PC contention that ignores the issue and instead focuses on the subject at hand. No ill will meant to either Jewish people or gun owners. He was talking about talking to each other.

This is his wife's interpretation of this OT other then the Bobby Fuller part, a SF musician I got to hear about got to hear about for hours. Serves me right.

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