Open Thread - Thurs 09 June 2022 - A Farm Story

Mr. Travis Belvedere

Most of us humans, especially if we grew up in the USA or another industrialized place, never experience life with other animals - beyond pets like dogs and cats. When I was a kid one wasn't even allowed to acknowledge that animals had brains, had feelings, and had functioning societies. They were just dumb beasts meant to abuse and eventually eat, maybe.

Getting goats, and then chickens, and keeping my eyes and brain open because I'm an anthropologist (or whatever!) at heart, taught me differently. Here's a story about one of those goats and a couple of times he taught me about him and his 'culture'.

Many years ago, maybe 20? something like that, we got our first goats. One of them was a wether named Travis. He was, like many of the goats, very much an individual with his own personality. When we got those first goats, they were about 2 or 3 months old and so very, very scared of their new surroundings and the new people overseeing them. After a couple of weeks, we'd 'tamed' everyone but Travis. Travis was simply not sure, not confident in us, or perhaps in himself.

One day, about six months after he arrived at the farm, I was feeding all the goats, and Travis got in front of me, stopped, and forced me to halt behind him. He looked at me over his shoulder with an inscrutable expression in his big golden eyes. I sighed, side stepped him, and fed the other goats. The next day he did the same thing, and I sighed, side stepped him, and fed the other goats. The third day, it finally hit me. He was asking me for pets, asking to be loved! Travis, the terrified, was willingly asking to be touched. So I eagerly petted him, gave him skritches, cooed at him, cuddled him. He melted, as did I. And from that point on, Travis was a tame, friendly, smart, understanding goat.

Travis before he let me pet him, hiding, as usual, under the bench.
travis_sml.jpg

When the does gave birth to their first round of babies, Travis was there. He observed, he learned, and he took on caring for the babies like an uncle or a father. He earned the name Mr. Belvedere because of the way he oversaw and cared for the little kids. Out in the field, he shepherded them, guarded them from any danger. He gave their mothers time to relax and get some nice green pasture down them before returning to their babies. Travis did this over and over again, every year, for about 11 or 12 years. Other wethers often do the same, but in my experience their care and guarding is limited to their immediate family. Travis, however, took care of every kid, related or not. He just loved them all. And they loved him back.

Travis, he was over 13 and a half years old (old for a goat!) when he died. He passed quietly, in the inner pasture, with me by his side. I petted, cooed, cried and cuddled him as he went. It was around midnight; a warm fall night. The sky was clear, the stars twinkled gently, as if they were weeping in respect. I got up eventually and wiped the tears from my cheeks knowing we'd bury his body in the morning.

As I moved away, every other goat, and we had about 25 at that time, every goat, EVERY goat, came to pay their respects to him with goodbye sniffs, licks and nudges: his younger sisters, that year's crop of kids, the other wethers, the does unrelated to him, the wethers unrelated to him... every goat. I was flabbergasted. Yes, other goats know when a goat passes, and some come to sniff and say goodbye (always close relatives) but.. not like this. It was like a human funeral procession. In the bucks' enclosure, the bucks, none of them related to Travis, were up against the fence closest to where Travis had passed on, snorting and watching the other goats with approval; saying goodbye as best they could. It was so eyeopening and humbling to see how the other goats honored and loved Travis in their own away. Stupid, dumb, non-feeling animals indeed!

So, thanks for reading and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

Hope your day is going well, and will be or has been good! We finally got a break in the wet weather *waves at earthling1* and we got the lawn mowed, around the house weed-eated, small rocks put in a few of the holes the chickens have made, transplants planted, a few things weeded, and the goats out of their pasture to do some bramble pruning. I've been spending a lot of time, too much time, dealing with weird banking stuff. Medallion Signature Guarantee? If you know what it is, raise yer hand! I sure didn't before about 2 months ago.

It's supposed to rain all day today. I guess I'll have to clean house *gag* instead of work outside. At least it's green outside.

What's on all your minds?

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

A wonderful story on animal behavior! Like you, I have found critters, both domestic and otherwise,
wise in their social understanding. It does take a special talent to listen and learn from these beasts.

We are also experiencing liquid sunshine today. The plants love it, as it has been about 6 weeks since
a decent rainfall occurred. Puts a damper on my project plans, but can't change the weather.
Thanks for hosting!

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Sima's picture

@QMS
We've had it all day. Strange for our location, which is often in a 'rain shadow'. But not today. As you said, good for the plants as long as it's not too much. Makes it all green. Project plans have to wait, I guess I'll mow and trim up the driveway 'soon'. Smile

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Lookout's picture

Wonderful story about the individuality and personality of animals...and also the herding nature of some animals.

We're grateful to get some rain this month...now up to 1.5" in June. Trees and garden are responding nicely. I managed to get mowed out last month. Some fields I only mow twice a year so it is rare to have the place look so manicured. No need to mention it will soon be wild and woolly again. The humid subtropics don't sit idle except in the dead of winter. Mid-nineties predicted next week when we've got a decking project scheduled..at least it will be dry.

Thanks again for the lovely story and the OT!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Sima's picture

@Lookout
I'd melt into goo. I've noticed that now that I'm older, I'm thinking it's 'hot' when it hits the mid 70's here! I always have to wait to mow some of our pastures until August. That's when the water finally dries up enough to mow. The grass is over 8 feet tall by then. But most of the birds are getting done with their nests, the mammals have had their babies, the goats are ready to get out into that part of the farm... It's nice.

Thanks for dropping by, it's good to hear what's up!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

My brain is on fire this morning.
If "birthing people" is the proper way to describe a pregnant human, just how does one make an arrest report in these non-gender times?
How about, "a person, 5'11. weighing approx. 235 lbs., short black hair, wearing jeans and a black tee shirt, dark skin color, suggesting the person was of African descent, was caught on security camera, running from the building, carrying a hard drive."
"Police are looking for that person, suspect the person is armed. Please call 911 if you see that person."
Have a great day, everyone!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
I dunno. I'm a woman. I can, or could, have babies. I didn't. So am I not a woman? If I'm not pregnant, am I an 'unpregnant birthing person'? I like your description of the possible criminal too. Maybe, we just say, '18 to 25 year female with white/black/brown/green/purple/red/whatever skin tone suspected of stealing baby formula.' I dunno. I'm too old to get it anymore.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@Sima I might not know if some mass shooter is a guy (type) or a woman(type) and the bastard (or bitch) comes to office and kills me. I JUST WANT A GOOD COP ALERT DESCRIPTION.
How can they do it in woke language?
Anyway, check out my goofy husband's plant speak I posted below.
Hug a goat for me, let it know OTC loves it with all my (HER) heart.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
Yea, can the cops just be allowed to use a description that works? Sheez.

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

great and instructive story. I learned somewhat early that critters are pretty hip in part, I think, to my skepticism and cynicism wrt humanity's hubris and ego claiming that WE are the top of the pecking order (hmmm, interesting phrase, wonder where we learned about that?), and the only animal that can think, communicate, use tools and on and on and on. If one pays attention it is clear that birds have various different calls and songs for different purposes and that our inability to understand what they are saying doesn't mean that they aren't saying something. Ditto, of course, apes and other primates, porpoises, whales, etc. Every few years as I was growing up saw yet another supremacy myth bite the dust as more and more different animals were "discovered" manifesting behavior indicating that, yes Virginia, they can learn language, communicate, use tools, build complex structures, solve puzzles, remember complex things, etc. And they clearly display emotions in the mourning behavior demonstrated by a huge and growing list of species, we just never noticed it because it couldn't because they were just dumb, brute, things operating on pure instinct. (Anything we couldn't comprehend was simply attributed to instinct.) Of course they can't create atomic bombs, but there is no reason to believe that they would be stupid enough to do so even if they could.

We're getting ready for a 3 day overnighter and winnowing down the all purpose packing list from days of yore to fit it while also adding all kinds of new toys and tools that we've become addicted to. Fun process. Also waiting until last moment, which we never used to do, also part of the "fun", heh. A whole lot of "I know I used to have/take/carry a ..." type of processes going on.

Solstice is coming too, always something to think about there.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

usefewersyllables's picture

@enhydra lutris
story, and rings so true- we've seen that behavior in our own critters. It is both heartening and heartbreaking in equal measure.

Which brings me to the story of Dario Cecchini, the completely nuts Dante-quoting butcher from Panzano in Chianti. He always wanted to be a vet, but life didn't permit it- so he became a butcher whose whole thing in life was to treat animals well, and honor them fully, on their journey to the tables he serves. It sounds unlikely, but he is very dedicated to it: if they are to be eaten, then honor them... The late Anthony Bourdain did a very nice "No Reservations" episode about him.

I actually got to meet him, and sample his wares, when in Italy a number of years ago, before he got famous. He's a great man, and he really does (or did at the time) toss chunks of prosciutto to people who come into his shop (the Antica Macelleria Cecchini in Panzano) with a hearty cry of "Carne!"

Worth the watch, just to see how he handled that internal conflict. A farmer and chef with true soul.

On edit- that was supposed to be a reply to the OP. Sorry about that...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Sima's picture

@usefewersyllables @usefewersyllables
about Dario Cecchini. And that is the kind of attitude towards 'carne' that I have developed myself. It's ok to eat meat. It's not ok to mistreat the animals that were once that meat. If they have a great life, and die for the table, that's ok. It's when they have crap lives, and die in horrific and mean ways, that it's not ok. I mean, we are eating them, we are eating that meat. Shouldn't it be treated the best we can? Don't we, the eaters, deserve to eat well treated meat animals?

My grandpa and step-grandma were not farmers but when they got older, they got a small piece of land and decided to get a milk cow. To get milk, they had to have calves, of course. So they ate the calves after they were 1 to 2 years old. They treated those calves great. Was really good meat. And to make it clear to themselves that they could attach to the little one, but not permanently, they named them things like 'Porter House' (Steak) and so on.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Pluto's Republic's picture

@enhydra lutris

It's trippy.

Mushrooms may 'talk' to each other using up to 50 'words'

Mushrooms are solitary creatures who don't move or prey on others. But it's possible that they might just chatter.

In a recent study, a scientist at the University of the West of England implanted electrodes into four different types of fungi and found that they seem to communicate internally using electrical impulses about food or an injury.

A mathematical analysis of the electrical signals that fungi send to each other revealed that the patterns in these "messages" are surprisingly similar to human speech.

In fact, the scientist found that the signal groups are so sophisticated that they actually resemble words — leading to the discovery that a mushroom's vocabulary may contain around 50 words.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
enhydra lutris's picture

@Pluto's Republic

of them have definitely spoken to me at times.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Sima's picture

@Pluto's Republic
I think about the research showing that trees communicate when I am out amongst them. And I bet the grass does too, and the flowers. Now, fungi? I'm going to have to watch where I step when walking through the pasture to avoid the little grass mushrooms that grow there!

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
Not at all! Just like you, I was dubious from my youth about all we were taught about animals.

Three day overnighter? It sounds fun. I think my husband and I are going to have to do a bunch of winnowing the next time we get to take a 'vacation'. We try to look at it like all of life is a vacation, but sometimes, traveling is good! Have fun after you get all the packing done!

As for solstice, I can't wait. I always say true summer starts around then, at least here in western WA. It'll be getting dark around 10-10:30, it might warm up past 75. Who knows??

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

https://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/saying-goodbye-elephants-hold-apparent-v...

Also, at the risk of providing enough personal data to be doxxing myself: You are reading the words of one of the last surviving members of Club Hanabi-Ko.

Mr. Rogers is gone...
Robin Williams is gone...
Alex Trebek is gone...

...my mother and I are still here.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Sima's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat
When I was just out of college I went to grad school for a bit at San Jose State. I was studying all kinds of anthropology. I got to study under Dr. Robert Jermain and do work with Jane Goodall's Chimpanzoo project. We learned a lot about Koko too.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong, and it's a different Hanabi-Ko?

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5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@Sima
The one and only.
koko.jpg

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4 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Sima's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat
Never got to 'meet' Koko, but sure learned a lot about her and from her.

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

mhagle's picture

Are wethers neutered males?

Goats are really lovely creatures. I am not surprised by your story at all. In fact, maybe our one neutered male should live with the females?

Our current goat herd was started by our daughter at the beginning of covid. She had done 2 1/2 years of college and didn't know what she wanted to do, so she talked her dad into buying 3 Nigerian Dwarf goats. Now there are twelve. Most are very tame all are lovely. From the last group of kids there was a premature female who was half the size of a cat and now at 5 months is the size of a cat. She is in the house. Josie thinks she is a cat. I love her. We can't get her to eat solid food, so she is still bottle-fed. She does gardening with me.

Also, my daughter started raising more poultry. She tends to them and cares for their needs. There are many enclosures so she moves them around it they are bullied. One injured hen now, Judy, spends the night in a bathroom and follows my daughter around outside during the day.

And this is a sad goodbye to my gardening dog, "Waterdog." He was at least 18 years old (104 in dog years). He slept by my side of the bed. He was still spry, but my daughter said he was "vacant." Really confused sometimes I guess. He got lots of love. A week ago today he went missing. We had that happen with another old dog - he just disappeared. A few days before we lost him, he put his head under the covers by my bedside so I could rub on him a bunch. I miss him so much.

I'm just rambling, but I really enjoyed this OT and comments. Thank you!!!

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

@mhagle

sad to hear your doggie had to leave
best wishes to all of you
Q

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Sima's picture

@mhagle
Nigerian Dwarf goats are what we have too! They are very nice. As you know, they make great milkers for a family (yes, they produce enough for a normal sized family, even though they are small) and the wethers are just great pets. They can be taught to follow along while hiking, to weed (eat) only selected plants... and more. They naturally will protect your chickens and so on, at least ours do it.

We've had a few of those very small females. Currently the last one born, Lily, is about 1/2 the size of her brother, at 4-5 years old. She spent a long time in the house, house trained herself, and is just a lovely being.

I raised an injured hen named Marty. Might share that story some time. But they know, they know they are being helped and loved! Even chickens.

As for dogs... my heart mourns with you. My dog, the one in my icon, is now 12 years old. She almost died a couple months ago from something gastrointestinal which the vet never could figure out. She is getting loopy sometimes like all us old folks do. I expect about 3 or so more years with her, like her predecessor, and then she'll pass on. Dunno what I'm gonna do when that happens. She's so central to our lives, like your dog was to yours.

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6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

snoopydawg's picture

My first cat had gotten seriously injured and I went to see her after the vet said she probably wouldn’t survive. My brother was living with me at the time and when I didn’t come home from work he knew I was at the vet so he and Dusty dawg my first beagle came to the vet and when my cat died Dusty started howling in the car. She knew that her friend had just passed. It was eariy. Little help on spelling.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
And they have relationships with each other, ok, maybe facilitated by humans, maybe not. We humans sometimes have trouble recognizing those relationships, I think. I'm not surprised that Dusty mourned, I've seen Jaska do the same in her own way. And I've seen goats do it too.

Hope you and yer pup are having a great day!

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6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

in a circle against lions. And they will thank rescuers. Lots of babies fall into wells in Africa. Instead of fearing the human rescuers, they seem to try to help and encourage the rescuers.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
That's cool. Goats do the circle thing too. If coyotes happen by, ours get in a circle with the little kids and the old goats in the middle. The chickens get in the middle too! They make their way slowly, in the circle, to the barn. Or, they wait for Jaska dog to come out. When she does, she gives some kind of bark (sounds the same as all her other barks to me, but not to them) and they turn and come running to her as she goes running out to face the coyote. The chickens and the little kids and old goats stay in the center of the circle even when running. It's nuts.

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6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

usefewersyllables's picture

@Sima

I've probably posted about them before, but what the heck... When we had the ranch we bred llamas. Llamas just *love* coyotes. We had one big gelded male (aptly named Coup d'Etat) who loved them more than any other llama I've ever seen. When one would come around, he'd turn his butt towards them and pretend to ignore them and just graze. When they got close enough, he'd rear up, spin 180deg on his back feet as fast as lightning, and come down right in the middle of their backs with both front feet.

Squish.

Then he'd go back to grazing, and I'd go out and clean up the dead coyote later. After a couple of years, the coyotes would no longer even come onto the property- they'd reach our fence line and walk around it on the outside...

Still, the best coyote-thumping I ever saw wasn't llama-driven. We had a large resident herd of antelope (probably 50 or 60 head) that wandered across all the properties near us. One day when they'd dropped their babies in the spring, a coyote decided to try and snack on one of them. Well, they formed a circle all right- around the coyote. It looked like an antelope tornado as they were running around him full-tilt in that tight circle. And every so often, you'd see a little tuft of tawny fur pop up in the middle of the tornado, as he was trying to escape. After a few minutes, the antelope tornado dissipated, and there was one very disheveled and severely beaten coyote limping away. Every member of that herd must have kicked or stomped him at least once.

He never did recover use of his right rear leg, so we called him "Tripod", and he lived out the rest of his days just outside our fence line snacking on prairie dogs and voles. And if he saw either Coup or an antelope coming his way, he'd beat feet (all 3 of 'em) the other way...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Sima's picture

@usefewersyllables
Or is that tails? Once Jaska caught a coyote going after our chickens. She collared it in the corner of a pasture with a 5 foot tall fence made of woven wire. I dunno how the coyote did it, but he climbed that fence in a hurry when he saw her coming for him. Coyote never came down the driveway to get a chicken again!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

so off I go.
Fun in beautifying the yard, to a botanical garden level.
I like flowering bushes and trees.
Husband is pretty much ok with my decades long effort.
However, his knowledge of the stuff and things is lacking, or maybe he is stubborn. I am having to learn a new vocabulary, not him.
Esperanzas are Mario Lanzas.
Crepe myrtles are Cro magnums.
Plumbagos are Lumbagos.
Lantanas are Santanas.
Wisteria are Listeria.
Salvias are salivas.
He hasn't come up with anything on jasmine and roses, but the summer is just starting.
I am learning, slowly but surely, have completely given up on him learning a damn thing.
Go along to get along?

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
Or something like that. I'm trying to think what 'rose' would be, but I can't... nose? Because they smell so great?

For us bedstraw or cleavers (a weed that came in with bedding straw and now is here to stay) is ... well it's nickname is too swearword full to say in polite company. Heh. I dunno how anyone gathered the stuff to sleep on, it cuts me to ribbons! I weed it anyway though!

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5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

@Sima

Look up "Ring around rosie"

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

janis b's picture

It’s amazing what a warm touch can give life to, and how it can also give comfort in death.

Thank you for relating your experience so touchingly.

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