Open Thread - Thurs 08 Feb 2024 - Biden's Different, Right?

Biden's Different, Right?

Would 'you' (meaning a standard liberal, not the people here at C99%) be more upset about the genocide in Palestine, if Trump were president? Are 'you' upset by the administration's doing nearly nothing about the climate crisis? It would be worse if Trump were president, right? And healthcare? Nothing's been done there by Biden, despite the promises, so under Trump it would be worse? And all the money going to the military-industrial complex, Biden's definitely ramped that down compared to Trump, right? Biden's moved us back from the brink of nuclear war! What? He hasn't? Biden's freed Assange, right? /* sarcasm, sarcasm - these questions are all sarcasm */


A cartoon from the last election... fun times! (not). From the IndyStar.

These questions, and more, came from a recent article by Lee Camp entitled 'If Trump Were President Right Now, Would You Act a Little More Sane?'. It's both funny, in a very cynical way, and astute. Unfortunately it's behind a pay wall, but I wanted to list some of the things he talks about in the article, things that have occurred to me recently as well.

Camp finishes the article with (remember 'you' doesn't mean those of us at C99%, at least in my view):

Would you care about all of these things if a deranged rightwinger were president right now instead of a so-called “liberal” who happens to accomplish (or fail to accomplish) all the same things as a deranged rightwinger?

Yeah, I think you would. I think you, the liberals of America, would be a whole lot angrier at the US government if everything were exactly the same but the face at the top was Mr. Orange himself.

…But you would still be directing your anger in the wrong place. You would rant and rave about Donald Trump, but you wouldn’t stop to realize it’s the system as a whole. The American system of inverted totalitarianism with capitalism as a broadsword results in the exact same outcomes over and over and over. Maybe someday soon you’ll get it.

Now, I'm not voting for Trump. I am not voting for Biden. It's evil versus evil. Gads. I wish there was a way out of it all, but we are not allowed to vote for the actual rulers, are we? If Jaska's still around then, I'll vote for her, maybe. Or maybe third party to 'let them (the two big parties) know'.

So, what do you think? Can we do anything about this at all, about changing the system as a whole? I'm not sure we can. And, frankly, I don't know how to do it, voting isn't really a solution. So protests, actions to stop the system (what could those be, and can an old lady do them?)... what else? Maybe just wait for it to collapse, which is kinda defeatist, but what else is there? Act whenever possible? What do you think?

Thanks for reading and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

One day closer to Friday, and the weekend! Hope everything is going well for everyone, even if it's super, duper wet. And cold. And ... dang, I've gotta admit I'm a bit freaked about the weather in southern California. It sure as heck wasn't like that when I left CA, about 40 years ago. Dang.

It's wet here in the PacNW too, but not that bad. Trees and other plants are starting to show buds. Time to start pruning back the blackberries and feeding them to the goats!

So what's up with you? How you doing? Let us know!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

@Sima

is a chore and a half because there are so many whackdoodles out there as well as so many idolators. A fraction, for example, will parrot Pelosi and Maddow. Both are serious war mongers and their followers would parrot that, regardless of generalized hatred for and condemnation of Trump. Gaetz, Greene, Boebert, Stefanik and their followers would be elated and cheering anything and everything simply because Trump.

USians rationalize like nobody's business. Border sekurity fanatics would still be the same, hard core trumpers among them would simply rationalize the current status quo as congressional or bureaucratic malfeasance

Eliminating those various categories, ovrall, I suspect Trumper/MAGA types would be much ahppier and blame anything they disliked on Obamaor Congress or the Courts or the bureaucrats. The blue no matter who crowd, however, would be outraged and up in arms, spouting rhetoric borrowed from days long past when bona fide lefties walked among us.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
Ain't that the truth. Heh, I have some Trumpster neighbors. I bet they think *I'm* a whackadoodle because I'm a socialist leftist type.

Have a great Friday and a great weekend!

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

-
-
So what is a singular soul to do to encourage change
in a world spiraling down the drain?
Recognize and support push-back.

I am encouraged the way the farmers in Europe have
achieved a wave of demonstrations to make the elites
reconsider their "Green Transition".

Some of the global resistance against Israel is making
a mass cultural difference. Reframe 'defense'.

And the individual US states bucking federal non-action
to deal with the extreme influx of undocumented immigrants
is rocking the boat just a bit.

Oh, and alternate media piercing the death grip of MSM
to get informational exposure of state approved disinformation
can be seen as a good development.

Even congress, twisted into inaction on war funds, has some
positive aspects.

These are all battles against the global hegemony.

Thanks for the OT. Hope the goats enjoy the blackberries.

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Sima's picture

@QMS
your list of actions which do seem to be working, as it is. I too am encouraged by the farmer's protests in Europe. And the world-wide resistance to the Palestinian genocide, and so much more. So it was great to read those, lifted my spirits a bit! Thanks!

Goats are happy with the blackberries, for sure. Hope all is well with you, and you have a great Friday and weekend! Thanks for stopping by and offering that list, it was good!

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5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

It's being pointed out over and over. On the republican side anything approaching compromise is stomped on. On the democrat side anything moving left is stomped on. Both r and d are conservative, and only fight over the slight amount they differ. Any candidate on the left will eventually compromise with either r or d to get something, and thus move some towards the right. What can we do to stop it? Vote?

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Sima's picture

@Snode
whatever that means anymore. And the true left? We aren't even mentioned or discussed. Can we PLEASE have healthcare, no wars, reduced military, homes for the homeless, food for everyone... come on! I don't think voting helps. Ok, maybe it helps, in a way. Protest votes, etc. But... it doesn't change anything, does it?

Thanks for stopping by. Great comment!

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5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Cassiodorus's picture

Would 'you' (meaning a standard liberal, not the people here at C99%) be more upset about the genocide in Palestine, if Trump were president?

Well, they "protested" a lot when Bush Junior was President. Not that it mattered. In 2004 John Kerry ran as Bush Smart -- Bush, but smarter. Not that this notion referred to anything possible. And he probably won the election, but then he conceded defeat to avoid embarrassing the guy who had promised to "deliver Ohio" for Bush. Then the Great Recession happened, and everyone assumed Bush and the Republicans were toast. In 2008.

Today the question they can't answer is: "if Trump is as scary as the Powers that Be are arguing, then why are they running Joe Biden against him?"

So, what do you think? Can we do anything about this at all, about changing the system as a whole? I'm not sure we can. And, frankly, I don't know how to do it, voting isn't really a solution. So protests, actions to stop the system (what could those be, and can an old lady do them?)... what else? Maybe just wait for it to collapse, which is kinda defeatist, but what else is there? Act whenever possible? What do you think?

Nobody is excited by this sort of work, but certainly something could be done to build an infrastructure that would be able -- even if only in special circumstances -- to compete with that of the major parties. Instead we have Cornel West brushing off Briahna Joy Gray on her question of "where are your activists going to go?" and then three months later discovering that he will, lo and behold, have to create a new political party if he is even so much as going to get on the ballot in most of the states. Gosh, Dr. West -- we did tell you this.

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"The West doesn't spend any time, or, our policymakers in Washington spend no time thinking about, like, what are the achievable goals here?" -- Tucker Carlson, on Project Ukraine

@Cassiodorus

has he committed to Libertarian yet?
these poly tacticians seem to be vague
movements are not built on a fence

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enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Cassiodorus's picture

@QMS RFK Jr. launches new party to get on Calif. ballot

This was dated 1/22. The primary is in March. They have how long to submit those 75,000 signatures?

So perhaps that explains the cozying-up to the Libertarian Party.

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5 users have voted.

"The West doesn't spend any time, or, our policymakers in Washington spend no time thinking about, like, what are the achievable goals here?" -- Tucker Carlson, on Project Ukraine

@Cassiodorus is a bit confusing. The CA ballot drive by RFK Jr via a new party We The People is about getting ballot access for the Nov general election, not the March primary. The sample ballot and mail-in ballot for the March primary have already been sent to voters.

Last I heard the talks w the LP are still ongoing.

Word also that RFK Jr will make the announcement of his VP pick in the next month.

Meantime, Scotus is about to decide on the Trump 14th sec 3 issue, from the CO Supreme Court ruling, which could take him off many states' ballots. But according to some experts, the nature of the oral argument questioning so far is signaling that Scotus will take a procedural way out to avoid deciding on the substance, such as perhaps deciding that DJT is not an "officer" for 14.3 purposes.

I have recently shifted in favor of the pro-14.3 arguments, but also agree Trump is likely to avoid getting nixed for another term as El Presidente, and that he will use the Court ruling to say it proves there was no insurrection on J6.

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Sima's picture

@wokkamile
and the coming court ruling are pretty likely to turn out correct. He's another huge billionaire. And that's where his loyalties lie. I wonder if he and Bill Clinton still get on? Hah.

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@QMS
exactly.

Unless we are birds, or something.

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@Cassiodorus
'Today the question they can't answer is: "if Trump is as scary as the Powers that Be are arguing, then why are they running Joe Biden against him?"' Exactly!

I protested the Bush Iraq war, along with, like, almost everyone else it seemed. I would stand at the ferry exit (a thing here in the Seattle area) and wave signs. EVERY car coming off the ferry would honk in agreement, their drivers would wave and blow kisses. EVERY ONE. Ferry workers would wave in agreement. And... nothing happened. The war was started, we 'won' (according to Bush) and the reasons for the war were false, as we all knew even then. It was so damned discouraging and depressing.

I think you are right, an 'infrastructure' needs to be built to compete with the major parties. Problem is, how? And the major parties basically own the voting/ballot structure. It's gonna be a hard slog, but it has to be done (amongst other things).

As for West. I really like him and many of his ideas, despite me not being religious. But, he's not trying. Just like Williamson isn't. RFK, Jr is but... for how long? It's so discouraging!

Thanks for the insightful comment! Have a great weekend and Friday!

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

that I expect crazy/sometimes murderous things from the right. They seldom disappoint.
I am FURIOUS at the genocidal tendencies of the left.
Not MY left anymore.
Thanks for the OT, sima.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
Yep, that's how I feel too. Way back in the 1990's, I knew Clinton was gonna be bad for the left. And, so it has been since then, bad for the left.

It's not my left anymore, for sure. Thanks for stopping by and have a great Friday and weekend!

up
4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so