Open Thread 10-08-2015

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 7:35am

Good morning good people

Not bad for a taxi driver

Monday morning poetry

Still I rise

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may tread me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
'Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.

Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops.
Weakened by my soulful cries.

Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
'Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin' in my own back yard.

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I'll rise.

Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?

Out of the huts of history's shame
I rise
Up from a past that's rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.
Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that's wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

~ Maya Angelou

SHYLOCK

What judgment shall I dread, doing no wrong?
You have among you many a purchased slave,
Which, like your asses and your dogs and mules,
You use in abject and in slavish parts,
Because you bought them: shall I say to you,
Let them be free, marry them to your heirs?
Why sweat they under burthens? let their beds
Be made as soft as yours and let their palates
Be season'd with such viands? You will answer
'The slaves are ours:' so do I answer you:
The pound of flesh, which I demand of him,
Is dearly bought; 'tis mine and I will have it.
If you deny me, fie upon your law!
There is no force in the decrees of Venice.
I stand for judgment: answer; shall I have it?

~ William Shakespeare

If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!

~ Rudyard Kipling

Money

Closed minds

Spray painting the sky with graffiti

Willows at the edge of water are a traditional symbol of women deserted by their lovers.

White Clouds

The Kiss

Tags:

Open Thread

JtC

Caucas99percent

Vote

Comments

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 7:33am

The news this morning...

is too depressing, so I skipped the usual headline segment. I hope you enjoy this morning's tale of poems and music.
Have a good day.

Submitted by dkmich on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 8:43am

According to Michael Lewellen, vice president of corporate communications for the arena, there were over 19,000 people in the arena and an estimated 9,000 people who lined up outside but were unable to get in. Lewellen said a total of 28,000 people tried to attend the event.

Sanders’s newly hired press secretary, Symone Sanders, an African-American woman, warned the crowd before Sanders took the stage in Portland of the possibility that his event could be a disruption there, too. She told the crowd that Sanders was about bringing people together and urged them to chant, “We Stand Together” if protesters took the stage. But that didn't happen.

Six guards stood around the stage on the floor of the Moda Arena, ensuring that if a protest were to break out, it would be unlikely the stage would be seized. Sanders' campaign declined to talk about security after Saturday's protest, but the senator has yet to travel with a visible security detail.

link

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:22am

Morning dk

Good news indeed, the NYT doesn't mention it, Wapo buries it down below, preferring a Trump lede.

I enjoyed watching every minute of the rally and following along in LD's live-blog. We must elect this good man.
Otherwise, I had to pull away from the kos over the weekend, too painful for participation.
Bernie, "We stand together."

Franklin ~

We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:34am

Ahha, found someone who'd tracking Bernie's coverage...

However, the following news websites do not have any front page mentions of this event:

nytimes.com
foxnews.com
news.google.com
abcnews.go.com
usatoday.com
cbsnews.com
nbcnews.com
reuters.com
msn.com/news

Submitted by kharma on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:38am

Thanks for this smiley

Refreshing diary, thanks! Still I Rise - great poem, makes me think of the things Sanders has to endure but we need him more than ever to still rise.

—

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:53am

Good morning and thanks kharma...

glad you enjoyed. I just wrote a congratulatory post on the Reddit Sanders for President site for their unflinching and constant moderation.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:52am

Good Morning smiley and 99%'ers!

It is absolutely remarkable that Bernie Sanders drew 28,000 in Portland, Oregon and barely a whimper from the main stream media. His narrative is not what the corporate owned media wants to promote.

This morning, I watched the fifth in the series of interviews by Paul Jay of Thomas Drake on the Real News Network. Each one of the five parts has been very interesting and each one has been far more revealing than the previous one. In segment five, Drake hits it out of the ball park, metaphorically. I wish every American would see these interviews, but if they only saw one, segment five is the one I recommend.

We attended a fund raiser for the local arts council last night. It was heavy hors d'oeuvres along with beer and wine. Then they held both a silent auction and a bidding auction on donated works of art. The fund raiser was held at a farm outside of town. It was sold out and it appeared that the auction did real well too. I am always amazed at how much the local arts council does for this community with relatively little money.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by dkmich on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 10:00am

Thanks for the tip.

I wanted to watch, but five??? I have zero patience. I never go to a human teller when I can go to an ATM, and I never watch a video if there is a transcript I can read. I think I'm a control freak which is why I have no patience. I am just glad Bernie and Symone are developing a response to the hijackings. A handful of interlopers cannot impose their will on 28,000.

I will watch the fifth installment.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 10:06am

Hi GG...

Appreciate your support for all those labours of love. I especially enjoy art councils that pass the majority of the money collected to the actual artists. I've an old friend in Sana Fe now who was the first graduate of Yale's first master in art's administration program in the sixties. We had great conversations, my being partial to the organizations across disciplines which are controlled by artists, like United Artists in the early days of Hollywood.

And thanks for the good link to Drake; happy to see he's getting the coverage he surely deserves.

Muggy up here, today.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 10:29am

The arts council here

does an enormous range of activities including a lot of work with the local schools and a huge show each year featuring local students. Most of the other shows they have feature various local and regional artists. Our arts council barely stays afloat monetarily so most of their money goes to promoting artists and the broad spectrum of the arts in general, not just the visual arts. This town is known as a community of volunteers. If it wasn't for the volunteers, the arts council probably would not exist. The one in nearby Hendersonville folded a while back.

We've been having some fog in the am here which makes it cool when we (or I) do the morning walk. Very pleasant right now.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 10:52am

Always enjoyed my trips to Hendersonville...

mostly to see my old friends, the Farquhars, father and son, passed away, unfortunately. "Robroy and Leona Farquhar, founded Flat Rock Playhouse which grew from a group called Vagabond Players, which had presented in the area since the late 1930s. In 1952, the troupers, and a newly formed board of directors, bought an eight-acre lot in the Village of Flat Rock and pitched a big top, giving birth to what's become the State Theatre of NC.

Never had the opportuntiy to work there; Robin, Jr called me in New York in the seventies and extended an invite to me and my lovely wife to join them, but, I had a company in the Village at the time. They were good, dedicated and talented people.

Also cool to visit Carl Sandburg's home, nearby.

Fog

The fog comes
on little cat feet.

It sits looking
over harbor and city
on silent haunches
and then moves on.

Submitted by mimi on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 11:31am

Good Morning Smiley7

The news are too depressing, the gos is too infuriating and I just wonder how anyone can make it through your beautiful poems and music without crying.
I can't. Thank you for your gifts.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 11:48am

morning mimi...

how are you today? Not sure which was worse at kos, my blood pressure boiling or my heart hurting. Best I don't say something I may regret over there; plus it's so easy to be misunderstood in cyberspace. I love our home here that JtC put together; attracting good people with multiple interests, backgrounds and writing skills I admire.

Submitted by mimi on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 6:32pm

THIS ^^^ I agree with wholeheartedly /nt

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 8:00pm

Sadly,

This is exactly how I feel. If I express an opinion, I fear I will once again be branded as racist by insinuation, which I was nearly eight years ago. My voice has been shut down because regardless of what I say, I will been seen as something I am not.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 8:15pm

Exactly, that's what motivated me to think

of Kipling's poem, If

But make allowance for their doubting too: If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

I don't want my feelings hurt, nor do I wish to hurt anyone's; so easy to happen in that 'sometimes' hateful and charged atmosphere.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 8:28pm

Thank you so very much.

You put a wonderful and humanistic perspective on so many things. Today was another hurtful day over at the other site. Sometimes just one small act of kindness is all that it takes to remove the sting. That you did with this comment. Thank you.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by shaharazade on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 1:00pm

Thanks smiley7

As for the news rundown I'll deal with it after this. Love your poetry. Kind of an odd mix what with Maya Angelou and that good old Empirical racist Rudyard. The Shakespeare in between seems to tie the three together. Thanks for the Maria Callus. I never liked or listened to opera as I was a rocker until I got a job at a small SF ad agency doing graphic art production. My boss a wonderful man played mostly opera with lot's of Maria Callus. The first two week of working in his studio at 10 hours gave me a love of opera. My two favorite opera singers are Maria Callus and Enrico Caruso. I also love Phillip Glass, so your OT was just the ticket musically and poetically.

Opera is great to paint or do art to. It is emotional and yet I do not end up in the storyline lyrically and get distracted. I also like working to Hindi pop music as the singing is emotional and the rhythm is divine. Today for the first time in a long time I'm painting. I'm doing an illustration (analog) by hand and feeding it into the computer to use in an monthly ad we send out. I'm going to listen to both opera and Indian music so thanks for giving me a theme to listen to that will ease my nerves and allow me to get lost in music.

Here's the Neapolitan .....

this is kind of operatic

Apropos of nothing, but it is poetic and I like it.....

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 1:31pm

Hi shaz,

Thanks for the music. Hey, didn't know you painted, I'm guilty of throwing paint on canvas sometimes, but I'm not very good, can't draw; my son has the talent in the family.
Is that a Bollywood film? Love it.

Submitted by shaharazade on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 8:58pm

I'm a good drawer

it's my strong suite I've been doing it since i was knee high. I majored in graphic and advertizing design at art school as I was sick of being a waitress and wanted some money, fer god's sake.. My teachers in the technical classes I had to take like typography or layout would get all excited because I could actually draw. I'm really rusty at any hand /analog work and it's frustrating and yet fun. I figure it's like riding a bike so I'll take what I get and not be so judgmental about the results.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:55pm

Fantastic, thank you for sharing!

Please bring your artwork to c99, often, a pleasure.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 2:04pm

Pop over for live-blog/stream of brunch with bernie

National Nurses United and Sen. Sanders/ Oakland, now 3pm.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/10/1410666/-Live-blog-stream-Natio...

Submitted by shaharazade on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 3:03pm

The National Nurses Union

endorsed him today. They polled their members 3 times and Bernie won by a landslide.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/10/bernie-sanders-endorsemen...

“When the pollsters said there was a landslide for Bernie Sanders, that didn’t make a lot of sense to me initially given the fact that Hillary Clinton is a woman,” director RoseAnn DeMoro told the Guardian in an interview ahead of the announcement. “I thought it would be fairly balanced, and it’s not.”

“Nurses are an interesting group. They are not political scientists. They want to be nurses,” said DeMoro. “But nurses see the fall out of all the bad decisions, because everything ultimately equates to health. If you are talking about income inequality, they see it. Health concerns and disparity among classes, joblessness; every social problem basically ends up presenting itself in a healthcare setting.”

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 3:51pm

Very encouraging crowd...

at the brunch. Sanders is so cool under fire, he's also very funny. Very important endorsement... mainly, nurses pointed out that they were grossly understaffed and were in the last trench holding a broken society together; with people not being able to afford healthcare, co-pays, deductibles, or medicines.

An enthusiastic afternoon in Oakland

Submitted by hecate on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 2:52pm

cinemas

were already suffering, with the penchant of people for watching films at home.

Moviemakers have tried to surmount this by spilling onto the screen lots of stuff that blows up, best "appreciated" big and loud.

But people are not going to want to go into those dark caverns if the stuff that gets blown up might be them.

Loonbins and asses are increasingly hauling into the cinemas, and then wildly wielding, guns, knives, hatchets, and now, leaf-blowers:

The suspects who entered a Newport Beach theater brandishing what panicked moviegoers thought was a chainsaw was actually a leaf-blower, police said Monday.

Investigators are searching for as many as three male subjects who “entered the theater with the intention of scaring moviegoers.”

“Callers reported that two or more men had entered a theater with some type of loud, hand held machine, later determined to be a leaf-blower,” Manzella said in a statement Monday.

“The suspect yelled, shook the leaf-blower, and revved the leaf-blower’s engine to create a loud and disturbing noise,” Manzella said.

Meanwhile, scared patrons rushed out of the theater, some of them getting injured in the haste to flee from the supposed danger.

One such person was 23-year-old Kyndall Aldama of Huntington Beach.

“All of a sudden, someone opened the emergency exit and yelled ‘I’ve got a chainsaw’ and cranked it up,” Aldama said Sunday. “No one got up. Then he cranked it again, and everyone started screaming. Someone else yelled they saw a gun.”

Aldama, who was seated in the middle of the theater, said she was pushed to the ground and trampled in the melee.

“At least eight people just stepped on and over me. Everyone thought it was like ‘The Texas Chainsaw Massacre,’” she said.

I do not want any leaf-blowers in the theaters. Or chainsaws, or guns, or knives, or hatchets, or, as in Russia, bad gas.

Cinemas are supposed to be places of refuge. Where the greastest danger is some officious usher with a flashlight, who tries to prevent one from accompanying the film with sexual play, or the ingestion of Medicine.

Submitted by shaharazade on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 3:14pm

As a society

our entertainment and real life seems to favor fear and violence in equal proportions. Then there is our national fascination of blowing shit up. It's hard to find a DVD to rent that doesn't have somebody wielding viscous weapon featured on the cover. Idiocracy is alive and well off and on the screen.

Submitted by hecate on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 3:32pm

yep

Fear sells. In the movie theater, and in the political theater.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 3:56pm

Hi hecate....

that's sad. Reading posts on news sites and blogs lacking good moderation are an eyeopening experience in how vulgar a portion of our society is; lawn blowers in cinemas; shaking my head, here?

Submitted by hecate on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 4:39pm

hi smiley

I liked your post. Should have said that. ; /

I am going to assume those leaf-blower people were pranksters: because they are young males, who do not yet have fully formed brains, they thought it would be "funny." And back in the days before everybody knew everything that was going on everywhere in the world, maybe it would have had a chance to be. But not when people are today shooting up movie theaters and killing each other. Once upon a time I was in a theater and somebody set off a firecracker. It was stupid, but not terminal. Today such a person would be lucky not to get shot by the SWAT team that will soon be positioned in the lobby of every American cinema. These leaf-blower miscreants are likewise so lucky.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:03pm

Question, if I may...

have you written screen plays, you write beautifully?

Submitted by hecate on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:45pm

you're

very kind, but no, I haven't written screenplays. My high-school English teacher packed me off at graduation with a big book of screenplays, and I should have gone there, but I had already fallen into journalism, which is poison for other sorts of writing, as people like Orwell and Hemingway and HST and Gloria Emerson will tell you.

Then, when I was offered the chance to write one, based on a journalism thing I did, I turned it down, because I was a young male whose mind wasn't fully formed. I thought such a chance would come again (yeah, right), I thought the director was an ass (he was, but that shouldn't have made a difference), and the director wanted me to move to LA, and I wanted to work where I was. The director demanded I work where he could loom over my shoulder and breathe down my neck, while he meanwhile hurled knives around the room; I said no; that was that.

I have made in my head a number of films that I once thought would go Real. They are these days useful in unspooling when I'm trying to put myself to sleep.

Submitted by mimi on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 6:41pm

and I thought you are a female ... and I think your

mind has fully formed. I just can't keep up with those digits and I really would like to see the film unspooling me too. I think you are an amazing artist with words.

Submitted by hecate on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 8:30pm

i

get that a lot, on the tubes, people thinking I'm female. I regard it as a compliment. I find men, in the main, embarrassing. At best.

The guy I was talking about above, the one without the fully formed brain, that was many years ago. Though I doubt my brain is yet fully formed. ; )

And thank you for your kind words.

Submitted by shaharazade on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:19pm

I always think

smart writers with a gender neutral handle are female. For years I thought ek hornbeck was a woman and the same with Cassidorous. Guess I'm biased.

Submitted by dkmich on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:07pm

Absolutely agree with Smiley...

You tell a great story.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by hecate on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:46pm

thank you n/t

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:14pm

Me three!

You have a really wonderful way with words.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by hecate on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:46pm

and thank you ; ) n/t

Submitted by shaharazade on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:12pm

Your good and funny

which is my songwriting husbands rule of good music. Your writing always takes me to an unexpected yet perfect place. Really fun and thought provoking to read. If more mainstream journalists wrote like you do I'd be more apt to read them without getting so irritated.

Submitted by hecate on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 10:08pm

thanks!

Writing music would be so great . . . .

Submitted by elenacarlena on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 11:15pm

I know it's bad of me, but I find that funny. I know I wouldn't

if I was one of those who was trampled. Maybe I'm just tickled because it's the middle of the night and I'm tired. But running screaming from a leaf blower, that's like a horror movie parody. The picture in my head is cracking me up. Nevertheless, I hope they catch the leaf blower-wielding fiends and punish them severely.

—

Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Submitted by joe shikspack on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 3:50pm

afternoon smiley...

good stuff!

here's a taxi driver from new orleans:

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 4:01pm

Cheers, Joe...

and afternoon. You know, my mind floods with memories of living in New Orleans; it's a good day for taxi drivers.

Submitted by mimi on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 6:44pm

that photo is touching as is the song /nt

Submitted by Unabashed Liberal on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 4:05pm

Thanks for the enjoyable post, Smiley--a relief to

'not have' so much news. (I agree with kharma on "Still I Rise.")

However, there is one bit of news that may please Bernie's supporters--FSC's ridiculous student loan plan.

If I can stand it, I may venture over to DKos to contest this piece of cr*p. If it were possible to get commenters [over there] to stick to policy, there might be a good and constructive discussion on student loan relief. Unfortunately, that is not always/usually the case. Guess I'll at least see if anyone is posting on this topic.

Gotta take 'the B' for his afternoon walk. When I get back, I'll post an excerpt about her so-called 'plan.' Hint: The funding for it has already been proposed by PBO.

That alone should tell anyone that it is a neoliberal 'bait and switch.'

Later . . .

Mollie

"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown

—

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 4:47pm

Hi Mollie...

we were lucky to have Maya in residence at Wake Forest University, nearby. She lives on as her caged bird sings.

I'll pop over to kos and read. The student loan program is worse than a payday lender for those unable to pay and in default. Seniors can only receive $750/month of their Social Security benefits if they have a student loan in default; all tax refunds are taken by the Dept. of Education as well; while, heavy fines and collection costs are added to the mounting interest. This also screws some seniors out of benefits like Medicaid or SNAP, as the IRS determines their income as gross. A deadly situation that our Dems. supported in congress.

btw, been meaning to tell you that my ski school director has a setter, just like yours and her name is Mollie. The sweetest dog. I enjoy visiting him on his mountain-top. Mollie has a beautiful environment in which to play.

Submitted by Unabashed Liberal on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 8:51pm

Hey, Smiley--almost missed your comment. Yikes! Had no idea

that the Feds confiscatory powers (regarding seniors carrying student loans) were that powerful. That's part of what makes me so ill--corporatist Dems were "in on" the bankruptcy reform law, which has helped saddle so many people with outrageous student loan debt.

Mollie is a good name for a dog. I'm not sure if you were posting here when I mentioned that I took the name of our dear Miniature Schnauzer, Mollie, when I joined DKos.

Mollie

—

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Submitted by smiley7 on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 9:44pm

Yep, those fines on defaulted loans that seniors have

are enormous, an example: a principal debt of $5,000 will get about $2,000/year in collection costs/plus accumulating interest and fines. Much worse than IRS late collection fees; consequently, seniors can't pay, can get their loans relieved because they are in default or declare bankruptcy. I've read of stories of small debts growing to more than 100,000 over a few year and all the while the Senior tries to live on the limit, $750, with no relief from any Federal program for the poor. The average retires gets around $12-1300/ month (from memory). This means the the Feds garnish $4-500/month from the defaulted senior's SS. But, the money garnished is not applied to principal, it's applied to collection costs and interest, first.

One of the most appalling things going!

Submitted by dkmich on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:03pm

It is as unnecessarily complicated as ObamaCare, and

it is so bureaucratic it is doomed to fail. Since we turned red, MI has been slashing funding to K-12 and universities. Universities that restrict tuition hikes to less than some percentage get state aid. Those that don't, don't. Worked for a few years, but the universities figured out that they're better off charging whatever tuition they want and telling the state where to put their state aid.

Took awhile. Guess Hillary must have finally gotten the poll results. Her promises are worth as much as the one's Obama made and didn't even attempt to delver.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by Shahryar on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 4:13pm

about how markos biases his own polls

those people still think Hillary made inroads on Bernie even though markos went out of his way to dig at Bernie a little and then say he wished the results were more like the national polls, which of course made fence sitters and authoritarian lovers vote for Hillary. And then everyone pretended not to notice the poll was biased.

I was reading an article about how biases get into surveys (and how important it is to keep them out) and came across this one

4. Sponsor bias: When respondents know – or suspect – the sponsor of the research, their feelings and opinions about that sponsor may bias their answers. Respondents’ views on the sponsoring organization’s mission or core beliefs, for example, can influence how they answer all questions related to that brand.

additionally there's this:

2. Social desirability bias: This bias involves respondents answering questions in a way that they think will lead to being accepted and liked. Regardless of the research format, some people will report inaccurately on sensitive or personal topics to present themselves in the best possible light.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 4:28pm

Afternoon Shahryar...

ha, ha, those polls on kos; should I tell them that they are easily "freeped?" By accident one day, I voted a second time, then realized that I could continue to vote as long as I didn't hit results. Nay, let 'em figure that out themselves.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 4:44pm

Ha!

Vote, vote, vote!!!

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 4:50pm

Big smile with finger to lips.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:09pm

I will speak to how polls can be used very effectively

I am not talking about political polls though. In planning, we used to contract with a pollster every two to three years for the purposes of getting public input into planning issues. Too often at the commission meetings, it would be the same bunch of realtors and people with a vested interest bending the commissions' ears.

We worked very closely with our pollster (who was a veteran local pollster) to try to make the questions free of as much bias as possible and often the question would be asked in two different ways as a cross check on the answers. The other thing is that we gave the respondents a list of issues and asked them to rank them in importance. We also asked a couple of open ended questions to allow the respondents to state what was on their minds. These polls served a valuable purpose in setting forth priorities before the commissions. Sometimes we did not get an answer we were happy with, like when we asked what was the biggest problem facing the city and the answer was traffic. Like many planners, I am one who believes you cannot build your way out of congestion. But we also got some very nice surprises like the biggest issue by a huge margin for the poorer neighborhoods was education. It was not even close. I thought that was important.

What is also important is digging through the cross tabs to ensure your sample is representative of the community you are polling. In our case, our pollster used a fairly large sample so we were fairly sure that the results represented the community. The cross tabs also allowed us to direct our future programs based upon the needs a certain areas. I personally thought this type of polling was very valuable.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:12pm

Several thoughts...

First, you are right about traffic, New York City learned that the hard way in the twenties, (ref. Lewis Mumford); more roads mean more traffic in the end.

I wish a reputable polling firm would poll the folks attending Bernie's rallies.

And for several years, our county party employed an expert from Charlotte for political advise, demographic breakdowns, party registrations, and so on; good stuff; those were growing days for us.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:22pm

The poster child for traffic

and urban sprawl is Atlanta. My SIL lives in one of the exurbs and I hate going down there because of the traffic. Years ago, we were in Virginia visiting relatives and drove to Atlanta to see SIL and her family. It was a Friday afternoon and we hit the rush hour between Atlanta and Spartanburg, SC. Traffic ground to a halt and then crawled the entire way to the outskirts of Atlanta. At first we thought it was due to an accident, but then found out that it is that way every Friday due to commuter traffic.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:32pm

Atlanta is on my list as one of our worst cities...

Those valleys in Atlanta are so small; I get claustrophobia when I visit and the smog that's trapped in those closing-in, wall canyons; plus the, as you say, god awful traffic. When flying, I also try and avoid departing or landing there.

Submitted by Shahryar on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 5:33pm

with enough diligence you can make sure the sample...

is accurate. If you have figures for the demographic breakout you try to match your respondents with those numbers. It starts getting dicey towards the end when you have to disqualify people because you already have enough of their demographic type.

One common technique of pollsters who are looking for ways to frame their message is to ask peoples' opinions about whatever...a bond issue, a candidate, a proposed freeway, a food brand....and then say something like this: "do the following statements make you more or less likely to support....?" and then present favorable arguments. Then they do the same with "likely to oppose...". Finally they ask the original question again to see if the positive or negative statements had any effect. They also note which statements had the most "very likely" responses. This is then recommended to their client for PR purposes.

Occasionally someone uses polling for good. Or so I've been told.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 8:19pm

Our questions were never favorable versus negative

I think that is because we did not want to influence the outcomes. We wanted to get real input, even if it was not what we wanted. (see my comment about traffic). In our case, the staff first came up with the type of issues we wanted to poll. The pollster took those issues and reframed the questions to make them more neutral and then suggested other questions as a cross check. Overall, it was a good process.

I think one has to look at the purpose of why they are doing polling. For example, our city commission conducted a poll every year as to "how are we doing?" which really turned me off. The questions in that poll were definitely loaded.

It really depends upon whether you want to get an honest response or one that fits your frame. I also believe that not everyone who contracts with a polling firm has the kind of interaction we had with our pollster.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by Shahryar on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 9:09pm

I've found product testing is more honest than political studies

Because companies really want to know what people are looking for. They understand there's a long term object, getting customers and keeping them. Politicians on the other hand are con men who just want to fool people the one time and then rely on name recognition in the future.

Sounds like your traffic study was looking for real input.

Submitted by elenacarlena on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 11:25pm