NC covid news and analysis per NC government agency

Summary:
Unvaccinated people are 4.4 times more likely to catch Covid and 15.4 times more likely to die from Covid Thats 440% and 1,540%, respectively.

That is overall, which is actually distortive, we geezers and geezettes are more likely to be vaccinated, but also at greatest risk of dying because time's up. Age bracketed results are, ergo, arguably better. Zo, week of 8/21, teens 12-17, 6.3 times more likely to get it. Thats 630% as opposed to 440% overall.

Caveat: All of the usual caveats apply; is moving target, is one week, is NC, not TX, AK, or anywhere else, is govt report not vetted by others, NC is pushing vaccines not treatment (though they do mention monoclonal anti-bodies as available if you get it and find out quickly enough), no baseline for NC is presented, etc.

https://www.wbtv.com/2021/08/27/report-unvaccinated-people-are-more-than...

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or as I call it "lying with the truth"
everyone sane already knows vaccines are a good thing, exaggerating how good, ignoring data that "contradicts" as "fake news" just to claim moral superiority, denying rare events, just makes you look like a liar. Even if you're telling the truth this time.

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On to Biden since 1973

enhydra lutris's picture

@doh1304

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Raggedy Ann's picture

that once one contracts covid, one is immune. Better to catch and get over it than have to be vaccinated over and over and over and over and over and over..........

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

enhydra lutris's picture

@Raggedy Ann @Raggedy Ann

(from Israel, I think) that indicated a greater immunity from infection than from vaccination, but that infection did not give 100% immunity and it did not give permanent immunity. Given that there is a 15% greater risk of dying if I catch it while unvaccinated than if I catch it while vaccinated, were i not already vaccinated, i would go get my shots. I like to have the odds in my favor, whatever I do, which is why I'm a boring poker player.

No real evidence yet that an endless series of vaccinations will be needed in either case, nor an endless series of infections.

be well and have a good one

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@enhydra lutris
of Peak Prosperity
https://www.peakprosperity.com/natural-immunity-stronger-than-vaccine-al...

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

@Raggedy Ann

than fully vaccinated, according to Israel data.

People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE.

The largest real-world analysis comparing natural immunity -- gained from an earlier infection -- to the protection provided by one of the most potent vaccines currently in use showed that reinfections were much less common. The paper from researchers in Israel contrasts with earlier studies, which showed that immunizations offered better protection than an earlier infection, though those studies were not of the delta variant. [my bold]

Link

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Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority. Meanwhile people are dying because of the material self-interest of a few. - Eduardo Giuliani

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edg's picture

@ovals49 I dislike it when the term "natural immunity" is used. That is inaccurate. The correct term for those who've had Covid and have become resistant to 2nd infection (and not all are) is acquired immunity. Basically the same effect provided by vaccination. I saw a study a while back that said those with acquired immunity from a Covid infection plus one vaccine dose were even better protected.

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CB's picture

@edg
The medical establishment uses the term "natural immunity"

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections
2021.08.24
...
Abstract

Background Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear.

Methods We conducted a retrospective observational study comparing three groups: (1)SARS-CoV-2-naïve individuals who received a two-dose regimen of the BioNTech/Pfizer mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine, (2)previously infected individuals who have not been vaccinated, and (3)previously infected and single dose vaccinated individuals....
...
Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.
...

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edg's picture

@CB "Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

Also, pet peeve (noun) - something that a particular person finds especially annoying.

Precision of language is important. Natural immunity consists only of those persons who have never been infected by Covid and cannot be infected by Covid. All others have acquired immunity.

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@edg
It would be curious for the human organism to come equipped with an immunity for a novel pathogen. This is not to say it can not happen, but to question if such an innate immunity to SARS-Cov2 has been shown to exist and to what extent.

Your nice distinction between ‘natural’ and ‘acquired’ immunity is duly noted, but serves no useful purpose for this discussion if there are no known instances of ‘natural’ immunity to SARS-Cov2. I would be interested to learn more about this natural immunity and find out how I can get me some of it.

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Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority. Meanwhile people are dying because of the material self-interest of a few. - Eduardo Giuliani

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

CB's picture

@edg @edg
There is no such immunity as you are describing:
"Natural immunity consists only of those persons who have never been infected by Covid and cannot be infected by Covid".

All children are born w/o immunity other than what gets passed on from their mothers. Childhood is the time where they pick up their natural immunity - or their vaccine acquired immunity. Most of the time they do not even realize they are developing their immune systems. One of the problems where our children are not exposed to ordinary, everyday pathogens as us older people were in the past, is that their immune system becomes underdeveloped.

Google "natural immunity". You will see that the term has been extensively used to differentiate between immunity acquired by 'natural' means versus vaccine acquired immunity. There is a significant difference. Natural immunity develops antibodies for the proteins from the entire viral structure. The current mRNA and viral vector vaccines only produce antibodies for the spike protein.

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@CB
Exposure to the whole virus allows that many more targets for your immune system to identify as alien life forms. It makes perfect sense that such an acquired (aka natural) immunity would be more complete and less likely to be rendered less efficacious by virtue of a small change in a single protein configuration.

There is evidence that a single dose of mRNA vaccine enhances the natural protection from Delta variant, but paradoxically a second dose reverses the benefit of the first dose. There is still an awful lot to be learned about this virus and our mRNA vaccines!

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Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority. Meanwhile people are dying because of the material self-interest of a few. - Eduardo Giuliani

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

Roy Blakeley's picture

@enhydra lutris not 15% greater. Geezers not only have weaker immune systems, but it has been several months now since most of them were vaccinated, and the effects of the vaccine (i.e. antibody titers) are dropping. The titers stay up longer for the Moderna vaccine than the Pfizer BioNTech, but if you got your second shot in Jan or Feb it would be a good idea to get a boost ASAP. Israel has been giving Pfizer BioNTech shots as boosters and they have resulted in an 11.4 X reduction in frequency of symptomatic disease relative to vaccinated but not boosted individuals. These results were with people over 60, but Israel is rapidly moving toward boosting everyone over 12. I don't have time to find the link but Bloomberg reported on this among others.

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Pricknick's picture

@Raggedy Ann
who catch it and die?
Two of my previously healthy, mid fifty friends did just that.
Oh well. Guess they just weren't lucky like you.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Raggedy Ann's picture

@Pricknick
Fear is the killer.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Pricknick's picture

@Raggedy Ann
Ignorance is the killer.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Raggedy Ann's picture

@Pricknick
Fear is the killer.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Raggedy Ann

at least according to Frank Herbert (Dune and sequels, passim).

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

gulfgal98's picture

@Raggedy Ann not just for myself (I am in my 70's) but also for my elderly mother and mother in law as well as friends and other family members. For that reason I am doing everything I can to protect myself and everyone around me. Statistically, I am safer being vaccinated and fully masked when I go out in public. I social distance and avoid indoor crowds.

Yeah, it sucks. But in Florida, our hospital system is coming apart at the seams with most of the patients and nearly all the deaths coming from the unvaccinated. And yes, if you are lucky enough to get a mild case of COVID, your chances of getting it again are slim. But you never know if your case is going to be mild or not.

The number of people I personally know who have gotten COVID is now around 20, including five family members. They have ranged in age from 8 to 93. And fortunately thus far, all have survived although several had long term effects from it months later.

More people have died from COVID than from the vaccine, so after assessing the risks, I decided to take my chances with the vaccine.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mimi's picture

@gulfgal98
who would not fear the virus? My well wishes to those who caught it. I don't know how the vaccination process is in your parts of the woods, here the vacination is a two shot procedure within a six-week time period. I got the first one and will get the second one Sept. 15th. I am social distancing by default. I have onctact only to three persons. There are just no more around.

I hope for a turn around of your direct exposures to people who got the virus.

Be well, and try to keep the fears at bay. What else could we do. It is not in our control, really, right?

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enhydra lutris's picture

coincidentally veeerrrry interesting in that we are planning a trip to NC later in the year. NC is allegedly having a bad time of it right now and that article somewhat confirms it while encouraging folks to get vaccinated.

Out of curiosity I did some poking around and discovered that North Carolina has more or less the same population as Sweden, though it is much closer by air, and has a lifestyle much more like the typical US lifestyle than Sweden's.

Here's the fun, searching on North Carolina's covid deaths since 2019, and then Sweden's covid deaths since 2019, I got the following:

North Carolina Total cases 1.19M  Deaths  14,334   2020 population  10,439,388

Sweden            Total cases 1.12M  Deaths  14,685   2020 population  10,099,265

Like all other data, it is just data or lies depending upon point of view.

Were still going to NC and not Sweden because much longer flight, no relatives in Sweden, no relatives in neighboring states countries, don't like the cold, really truly absolutely cannot stand lutefisk (not big on grits either, I'll admit).

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

@enhydra lutris

I used to eat grits (and oatmeal), but have changed my ways. However, the BBQ (esp. the pork) in the south is to die for. My 2 cent on southern cuisine.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout

an in law insisted I try it, proper way, good place, meh to bleh. I love polenta. Hou could they fuck it up so bad. 'Cue, on the other hand, I could eat all day, with a side of hot links. Wink

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

@enhydra lutris

that's the trick for tasty grits. I like 'em, but don't partake of grains. We now go for eggs and bacon and avocado and tomatoes when in season. Today we had sausage instead of bacon. All from local woods raised pigs. We treat it as a treat and enjoy periodically. Normally we skip b'fast. I miss biscuits more than grits and sometimes make an almond flour substitute.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout

far too soupy. Flavor also a bit off. I have polenta, with green onions, shrooms, or both and parmesan if i'm in the mood at least once a week for breakfast. Stuff is supposed to have body.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

@enhydra lutris

Proper grits are NOT soupy, and when cool thicken enough to eat with a fork.

However, no grains, no grits given my dietary approach.

Hope you enjoy your trip to the South!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@enhydra lutris

Husband transferred in and than back out to go to Maryland. He did too good of a job in NC. We lived in an apartment in High Point and then bought a townhome in Greensboro right before he found out about the next move. We did as much as we could sight seeing.... lovely state, but politically like where we are now (KY).

What I missed the most was the gorgeous fall colors, mostly due to the sweet gum trees which our younger daughter called "Star trees" (leaf shape).

Enjoy your stay.

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CB's picture

SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and
variants under investigation in
England

Technical briefing 20
6 August 2021
This briefing provides an update on previous briefings up to 23 July 2021
...
Table 5. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of confirmed and provisional Delta cases in England by vaccination status
(1 February 2021 to 2 August 2021)

Unlinked - 7 deaths/31,841 cases

Less than 21 days post dose 1 - 10 deaths/24,018 cases = 0.00024 death rate
Greater than 21 days post dose 1 - 69 deaths/46,089 cases = 0.00150 death rate
Received 2 doses - 402 deaths/47,008 cases = 0.00855 death rate
Total vaccinated - 481 deaths/117,998 cases = 0.00410 death rate

Total unvaccinated - 253 deaths/151,054 = 0.00167 death rate

Death rate for all vaccinated is 0.00410/0.00167 = 2.455 times unvaccinated
Death rate for received 2 doses 0.00855/0.00167 = 5.12 times unvaccinated

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@CB
is ADE which can effectively hide the true cause.

A perspective on potential antibody-dependent enhancement of SARS-CoV-2
2020 Jul 13

Abstract

Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) of disease is a general concern for the development of vaccines and antibody therapies because the mechanisms that underlie antibody protection against any virus have a theoretical potential to amplify the infection or trigger harmful immunopathology. This possibility requires careful consideration at this critical point in the pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), which is caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). Here we review observations relevant to the risks of ADE of disease, and their potential implications for SARS-CoV-2 infection. At present, there are no known clinical findings, immunological assays or biomarkers that can differentiate any severe viral infection from immune-enhanced disease, whether by measuring antibodies, T cells or intrinsic host responses. In vitro systems and animal models do not predict the risk of ADE of disease, in part because protective and potentially detrimental antibody-mediated mechanisms are the same and designing animal models depends on understanding how antiviral host responses may become harmful in humans. The implications of our lack of knowledge are twofold. First, comprehensive studies are urgently needed to define clinical correlates of protective immunity against SARS-CoV-2. Second, because ADE of disease cannot be reliably predicted after either vaccination or treatment with antibodies-regardless of what virus is the causative agent-it will be essential to depend on careful analysis of safety in humans as immune interventions for COVID-19 move forward.

Estimating the True Number of Total Deaths for the COVID-19 Vaccines Based on Whistleblowers+VAERS

If it isn’t already obvious, the type of chart below strongly supports the idea of causality– VAERS shows a large percentage of deaths in very close proximity to the time of injection.
...

In recent days, two whistleblowers have come out with death numbers related to these injections that are far above what is reported from VAERS (VAERS reports 13,068 deaths as of the 8/20/21 data release). This is expected, as it is widely known that only 1-10% of all adverse events from vaccines ever show up in VAERS. Further, there is strong support for the idea that the VAERS data is backlogged, throttled, or downright suppressed, as can be found on this site and elsewhere.
...

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enhydra lutris's picture

@CB

national, per million, or what?

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

CB's picture

@enhydra lutris
The chart shows the number of deaths per day after the vaccination. The graph reaches 100% of the reported 13,068 deaths after about 200 days (the time the last person died in this group.)

They show examples:
Day 3 - 34.5% of the 13,068 deaths had died
Day 7 - 49.12% of the 13,068 deaths had died (half of this group died)

Keep in mind these people who were vaccinated were relatively healthy. They wouldn't get vaccinated if they showed signs of ill health. That legally disqualifies them. So we can assume that these people were relatively healthy but may have comorbidities such as overweight, diabetes, unknown cancers, etc.

One of the causes of deaths could be ADE which I described above. Their cause of death would simply be COVID-19. We will NEVER know if they would have lived after contracting COVID-19 and had not been vaccinated. That's why we need unvaccinated people as a comparison to study.

Keep in mind that WE are the lab rats being tested at this time. This is the FIRST TIME in history that a vaccine has been administered with such low safety testing. This testing is being done on the fly. To make matters worse politicking has taken over medicine.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@CB

bracket?

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

CB's picture

@enhydra lutris
There is a considerably higher death rate with the 2nd shot as you can see from the English report. We also don't have data on what vaccines were used - mRNA or viral vector. A complete high level peer reviewed study is needed to get to the bottom of this. Good or bad - we all have a right to know.

Look at the information we were given in the last 8 months:

  • masks good - masks don't work - masks needed
  • completely protected with vaccine - vaccines don't protect you
  • can't spread COVID-19 with vaccine - vaccinated can spread COVID-19
  • less contagious if vaccinated - carry same viral load as unvaccinated

VAERS COVID Vaccine Data
Reports from the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System.
Our data reflects all VAERS data including the "nondomestic" reports.
read the VAERS disclaimer
623,341 Reports
through August 20, 2021*

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enhydra lutris's picture

@CB

however. The infection rate has to be per capita. Death rate, from the text could arguably be either per capita or per infection.

There's a lot of interesting detail there, like how most of the unvaccinated are under 50 and the sizeable chunk of the vaccinated who got it at least 21 days after their first dose. I think my wife and I only waited 14 days, but we didn't have O-Az, either. A lot more unvaccinated got admitted to the hospital too, I wonder what's up with that, given the higher death rate among the vaccinated?

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

CB's picture

@enhydra lutris
go to hospital more than the vaccinated but do better. The vaccinated don't need hospital care as much as the non-vaccinated. But SHOULD they need it - they are likely to do less well. To figure this out we need to know about the comorbidities. The problem is that TPTB are stressing that people with comorbidity are the first to be urged to get vaccinated. Maybe they would do even worse w/o vaccination.

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edg's picture

@CB Some people supposedly fully vaccinated with both doses and elapsed time have been found to not have any Covid antibodies. Their immune system didn't respond correctly to the vaccine. Thus, being vaccinated is not enough without knowing whether or not the vaccination was successful.

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CB's picture

@edg

Can antibody tests tell you if a COVID-19 vaccine worked?
...
What your COVID-19 antibody test results mean

A positive result suggests that you had COVID-19 at some time in the recent past, even if you didn’t show any symptoms. You’ll need to continue to practice caution in the community and protect yourself and others from potential exposure to COVID-19 by following safety precautions, including masking, social distancing and handwashing.

A negative result suggests that you haven’t had a recent COVID-19 infection. However, it doesn’t prove that there has been no prior or current infection. Antibodies could be present at levels below the test’s threshold for detection. It takes one to three weeks after an infection for antibodies to be detectable. In the months after an infection, antibody levels may decrease below the detectable level.
...
Can antibody tests determine if the COVID-19 vaccine was effective?

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) discourages antibody testing for assessing immunity after getting the vaccine.

A vaccinated person is very likely to get a negative result from a serology test, even if the vaccine was successful and protective. That’s because different serology tests detect antibodies to different parts of the virus.

Some tests detect antibodies to the spike protein of the virus, which are produced in response to viral infection or the vaccine. Others detect antibodies to a different part of the virus called the nucleocapsid protein, which are produced in response to infection, but not by the current vaccines.

MD Anderson’s Blood Bank uses an antibody test designed to detect antibodies to the nucleocapsid protein, which means donors who have received the COVID-19 vaccine will likely receive a negative antibody test result.
...

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@CB @CB It is discussed here and involves Simpson's paradox. A statistical fuckup can occur if data sets are combined from disparate groups. In this case old people are both much more likely to be vaccinated and are also the most likely to die from covid. At the same time, young folks are not nearly as vaccinated but are getting infected with delta at a high rate.

Combining the data from all results in a reversal of what one would expect.
This was also noted in the analysis of the data from Israel a few weeks ago. Keeping the data separate for the different age groups is key to understanding what might be going on.

Obviously, there could be other explanations. This is one.

Edit to add a series of tweets from Carl Bergstrom, a epidemiologist at the University of Washington, who highlighted the Israel data earlier. Perhaps a better explanation of Simpson's paradox and the confounding way that combining data sets can lead to different conclusions.

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mimi's picture

if I am only half vaccinated? Wink

Just take your mind off the math, please. It is giving you and us headaches. I suggest to get distracted by IDA.

I wish everyone who is directly exposed to hurricanes, fires, flooding, covid outbreaks in massive numbers, to not be overwhelmed by fear. Learning from your great former president, FDR: The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

Good luck to all of you.

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mimi

Lookout's picture

@mimi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vYslhtMbDw (24 min)

Fully vaccinated
Hospitalized / ITU / Ventilated in those infected (In the US we call ITU the ICU)
3.2%, 0.5% 0.2%

Partially vaccinated (one jab)

6.2%, 1.0%, 0.3%

Unvaccinated

7.6%, 1.5%, 0.5%

p less than 0.001 for all comparisons
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e5.htm?s_cid=mm7034e5_w

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

CB's picture

@Lookout
Los Angeles County has a very large population of homeless who are much more at risk from COVID-19 than average.

COVID Hospitalizations Continue Rise In LACo; Cases Up Among Homeless

LOS ANGELES (CBSLA) – As federal health officials recommended Wednesday that all vaccinated Americans get COVID-19 booster shots, Los Angeles County saw another increase in the number of patients hospitalized with the coronavirus, while infections among the homeless have also ticked upward.
...
County health officials said the number of homeless people becoming infected with the virus has jumped over the past month, mirroring a trend in the community as a whole. According to the Department of Public Health, the county had been reporting less than 30 cases among the homeless per week between late February and mid-July. But this week, the county verified 185 new cases, although 71 of them actually occurred in previous weeks but have just been confirmed as occurring among the homeless.
...
“We have a very large population of people experiencing homelessness in L.A. County, and the availability of emergency, interim and permanent housing remains a priority, particularly during this long duration pandemic,” Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer said in a statement. “People experiencing homelessness are at high risk of severe COVID-19 disease due to underlying health conditions, age, or both.
...

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CB's picture

@mimi @mimi
I would put your odds of dying between a bicycle incident and drowning.

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mimi's picture

@CB @CB
I can't use the bicycle anymore, as I have some weirdo balance problems (absolutely can't make a right turn) and I don't swim. Smile

So, I am going to survive. Ha.

PS I am always surpised, amazed and in awe with what kind of speed you come up with the most intrigueing statistical information. Thanks so much for being here and do what you do best.

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mimi

Bisbonian's picture

@mimi Rye whiskey, rye whiskey, rye whiskey I cry, If a tree don't fall on me, I'll live till I die.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

mimi's picture

@Bisbonian

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mimi

poisoning of people using Ivermectin. There are more and more articles about it. There are the people who are taking the product meant for animals and self dosing, and then there are people begging their doctors for prescriptions.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-sees-spike-in...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/health/covid-ivermectin-prescriptions...

From the Times article..."A recent review of 14 ivermectin studies, with more than 1,600 participants, concluded that none provided evidence of the drug’s ability to prevent Covid, improve patient conditions or reduce mortality. Another 31 studies are still underway to test the drug.

“There is great interest in repurposing well-known inexpensive drugs such as ivermectin that are readily available as an oral tablet,” Maria-Inti Metzendorf and Stephanie Weibel, the authors of the review, said in an email to The Times. “Even if these circumstances seem ideal, the results from the available clinical studies carried out so far cannot confirm the widely advertised benefits.”

"One of the largest trials studying ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment, called the Together Trial, was halted by the data safety monitoring board on Aug. 6 because the drug had been shown to be no better than a placebo at preventing hospitalization or prolonged stay in the emergency room. Dr. Edward Mills, a professor at McMaster University who led the study, which enrolled more than 1,300 patients, said the team would have discontinued it earlier were it not for the level of public interest in ivermectin.

“The data safety person said, ‘This is now futile and you’re offering no benefit to patients involved in the trial,’” Dr. Mills said."

I am seeing claims daily on various sites that India has totally stopped its pandemic conditions due to the use of Ivermectin, and yet no one apparently actually checks on the case numbers in India to confirm those claims.

Caleb Wallace of Texas, a big anti mask, anti vaccine proponent died recently of Covid 19. He was the one who stated, " I care more about freedom than I do for your personal health.” "When he first fell ill in late July, Mr. Wallace initially refused to get tested or see a doctor because he didn’t want to be part of COVID-19 statistics, the San Angelo Standard-Times reported, so he self-treated with Ivermectin, Vitamin C, zinc aspirin and an inhaler." He was 30 years old and his wife is pregnant with their 4th child.

In Kentucky we have a new group of "concerned citizens" putting flyers on door handles and cars urging people to avoid letting their children be vaccinated or wear masks at school. There are several claims in the flyer that are outright false information.

Senator Rand Paul and Rep. Thomas Massie are on a roll with their own brand of misinformation. Massie calls masks "face diapers". Both these men are classic narcissists... you know, people who stopped progressing psychologically at at 3.

I think we need some stats on the percentages of Americans who operate out of sheer stupidity coupled with an obvious lack of compassion for their fellow citizens. It's a disease too.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

edg's picture

@Fishtroller 02 If your roundworm infestation has Covid, using Ivermectin to kill the parasites would also eliminate the parasites' Covid infection. Of course, they'd be too dead to thank you.

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CB's picture

@edg

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edg's picture

@CB If you can show me ironclad proof how a roundworm medication somehow magically kills the Covid virus, do so. Otherwise, keep your rampant speculation and nonsense to yourself.

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@edg
it's only a blog.

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I have to say that at this point the anti vax / pro iveremectin people posting on this site have pushed the "complete free speech" experiment here at C-99 beyond any acceptable limits.
People who post dangerous unproven information claiming that it is medical help are nearly criminal.
They do great harm to others who may believe them.
Again, I SAY THAT THE FREE SPEECH EXPERIMENT THAT IS C-99 HAS FAILED WHEN POSTERS ARE ALLOWED
TO POST HARMFUL FALSE MEDICAL INFORMATION!

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@jbob
and only one truth, is the essence of censorship. Where do we stop with that? Whose truth? Yours? The governments? You want to see what that looks like, go visit DKos for a while.

C99 will not change its long held principles because you don't like what some folks have to say.

You should revel in the fact that you can slam c99 like you just did and not get banned for it.

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snoopydawg's picture

@jbob

WHEN POSTERS ARE ALLOWED
TO POST HARMFUL FALSE MEDICAL INFORMATION!

I am curious about your assertion of false information if there are links to articles that back up what they are saying and you refuse to even read it and decide that it is just FALSE INFORMATION. How can you determine that? And free speech doesn't end just because you don't like what it says. There have been many peer reviewed articles posted here that back up the claim.

Either free speech exists at all times or it does not. I for one do not want to live in a country where the majority gets to decided what is true or false.

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In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

Lookout's picture

@jbob @edg

It is not a dogma or belief...it is based on evidence and the analysis of the evidence.

Your NYT source also asserted WMD in Iraq remember?

Here's a few clear cut examples IMO. YMMV.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/SUMMARY-OF-TH...

Mexico_3.png

india.png

The New York Times COVID “Mystery” solved!

Cases have plunged in India in a few weeks. True

The New York Times reported on July 30, 2021, that this is a mystery with no clear explanation. But, the drop in cases happened right after a new COVID-19 protocol was released in India. The new guideline includes Ivermectin for early treatment — to treat patients with mild symptoms.

Think about how many Pharma ads are in MSM. With reflection you might understand why you have come to understand IVM is a hoax...Let's see a 30 cent dose vs $40 shots?

Thanks to JtC and the C99 community for OPEN conversation and mutual exploration of data rather than dogma.

If you would bother to listen to these doctors working the ICU with COVID patients and how successful they find IVM your mind might open up too.
https://covid19criticalcare.com/

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4 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@jbob

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.”

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Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority. Meanwhile people are dying because of the material self-interest of a few. - Eduardo Giuliani

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02
that states ivermectin is not suitable as a prophylactic for COVID-19 other than newspaper reports that are OBVIOUSLY biased? There are dozens of nations that are using this drug.

What Countries are Using Ivermectin?
August 26, 2021

Ivermectin is currently used for about 23% of the world's population. Countries where COVID-19 mortality is close to zero may not have incentive to adopt treatments. When excluding these countries, ivermectin adoption is about 30%. We excluded countries where the cumulative mortality over the preceding month was less than 1 in 1 million, according to the data at https://ourworldindata.org/). For the estimated population coverage, isolated use, some regions, mixed usage, and many regions use a factor of 0.05, 0.25, 0.5, and 0.75 respectively.

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@CB NOT the other way around.

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CB's picture

@jbob @jbob
Why are you so adamant that this effective prophylaxis doesn't/won't work? I can give you a dozen more studies.

The first one is a study authorized by the Israeli government.

There are even studies that show it is beneficial for other diseases - collectorial cancer is one example. That is important to me as I have already had a right colectomy and if the cancer comes back it will be a death sentence.

There are hundreds of drugs that have been found to have off-label uses that are highly beneficial. Take the ordinary common aspirin. I personally have been prescribed them to counter my ischemic (blood clot) stroke in the hospital emergency ward and during my stay. The first responders give you an aspirin IMMEDIATELY while in the ambulance if they think you had a stroke. The common aspirin is now an essential part of my drug regimen. Due to this stroke I have lost my ability to speak properly but am working on it daily.

I suggest you at least do a little research before you denigrate these options.

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@CB

all the time now.... you do your homework on an issue, you post your opinion and links to what you have found to back it up, and immediately your links are accused of being from "biased" sources. My sources are biased and YOURS ARE NOT?

You have made it clear that you are very suspicious of the vaccines and a proponent of Ivermectin as a treatment, despite the bottom line fact that the vaccines went though over a year of gigantic medical trials involving hundreds of thousands of people, and Ivermectin has a list of very small trials, many of which have been dropped either for lack of evidence or faulty parameters.

I don't want to censor your posts at all, but I'm certainly not going to go running around chasing your arguments and links. I've done it. I've kept an open mind and have not seen anything convincing about Ivermectin.... except for the data on how many people are now calling into poison control centers because they tried to self medicate with the animal version.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02
vaccines due to how they hyped them at the beginning. First they said they would be effective in both contracting COVID-19 and preventing transmission. They said they would produce herd immunity when they reached 70% saturation rate.

Time has proven them wrong. The vaccines neither prevent the disease nor stop its spread. Even with 100% vaccination levels we will never achieve herd immunity. In fact it is becoming apparent that we will be subjected to a never ending situation of requiring annual "booster" shots.

So, we are right back at square one - wearing masks and social distancing - even in areas where there has been almost 100% compliance - old folk's homes. It seems that these vaccines are not as effective with people that have extensive comorbidities.

The worrying situation I now see occurring is a situation like in China where there is 100% compliance to the vaccine which is of the traditional killed virus type. They have administered well over 2 billion shots to achieve this.

They have effectively curbed the pandemic with an extremely small amount of deaths - 3 per million. BUT the social costs have been significant. They restrict movement and access to services if they don't have a proper health code (green, yellow, red). This means they can't take a train, taxi or even a bus. They may not even be able to leave their community to go shopping. Non compliance means you are left w/o funds.

The Chinese make extensive use of fintech like Alipay. They no longer use cash. Their monetary system is now directly tied to their health codes (and social credit scores). Think about that reality!

I can see TPTB setting up the same type of system in America using the COVID-19 pandemic as a wedge issue to require such a "passport". We've already seen it in France, Germany and other EU members. The UK, Australia and Canada are hot on their heals. Once you have to have a health passport in order to move freely (airlines, trains, Ubers) it is only a matter of time that fintech will take complete control of your cash.

BTW, this WILL occur before 2025 in the context of The Great Reset and Build Back Better.

I was thinking of doing a diary with this but now I'm having second thoughts. I've a feeling that many here would call me a conspiracy theorist.

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Lookout's picture

@Fishtroller 02

You might want to listen to John's new take. His conclusions makes it clear treatments should be considered. Links below the clip at YT.

I would love to see your evidence of

the data on how many people are now calling into poison control centers because they tried to self medicate with the animal version.

This is an extremely safe drug with literally multiple billions of doses administered. So where's your data?

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3 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout

sorry he let himself get pulled into the Ivermectin issue.

Headline today in the Louisville Courier Journal.... More poisonings reported in KY from use of Ivermectin. In 2020 there was one case. So far this year there have been 13 cases, 75% from use of farm animal products and 24% from use of doctor prescribed Ivermectin.

I think it is irresponsible to promote this drug until there are conclusive large studies done on it for treatment of Covid 19.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

CB's picture

Testimony shows that vaccines do not perform as was promulgated and in fact are based on faulty assumptions. She argues that the state cannot mandate a vaccine that doesn't prevent transmission. Also, she discusses that studies have shown that a vaccine made for a specific variant may actually cause significantly more disease if used for a mutated viral infection. (This may be why we are now seeing a resurgence of newly vaccinated cases requiring hospitalization. Truth be told, the rush to develop an entirely new category of vaccine in significantly less than a year may not have been a wise decision.)

WHAT IS HOUSE BILL 4471?
A bill to prohibit employers from discriminating against an individual because the individual has not received or declines to receive certain vaccinations; to prohibit retaliation; and to provide remedies.

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