Hypocrisy on the Left - Daily Kos Maxim, If You Vote for the Democratic Party, You're okay with Illegal Wars and Murder

“The people in charge can always justify doing terrible things in the name of the greater good. A slaughter here, a little torture there. It becomes moral to do things that would be immoral if an ordinary individual did ’em.” - Joe Hill, The Fireman

Over at the conservative democratic party blog Daily Kos, a popular essay talks about why democrats won key seats in this latest "representative democracy" election. There are a large number of comments under the essay but the second one, highly recommended by the partisan Clinton wing of the oligarchy's democratic party, encapsulates the hypocrisy of the conservative neoliberal imperialists that control the party.

These are perfectly stated. I’ve always said that Trumpism goes beyond partisan politics. If you voted for Trump, you may not be a racist but you’re okay with racism. If you voted for Trump, you may not be a sexist but you’re okay with sexism. If you voted for Trump, you many not be homophobic but you’re okay with homophobia."

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/9/1714110/-Blow-Dems-won-becaus...

I'm glad to see such sentiment because it's exactly what I've been saying about voting for the duopoly in this political system for years, particularly when it relates to war and imperialism. If you vote for it, you own it. To paraphrase the commenter, "if you voted for Clinton and the democratic party, you may not be an imperialist warmonger, but you're okay with imperialist warmongering."

Of course the same goes for Trump voters, the comment examples could be extended to include imperialism and war also since Trump has shown he's on the same imperialist path set by past U.S. administrations.

Both duopoly political parties have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt they are fully and nearly unanimously invested in U.S. imperialism and the accompanying wars, regime changes, genocides, and murder of innocent women and children by any means necessary to further the American ruling class(and partners) agenda to extend their rule over the entire planet.

Evidently a maxim is a maxim on Daily Kos only when it's convenient. Hypocrisy abounds in the vaunted American political system and within the American people. Especially when it comes to war, imperialism and let's just say it out loud, murder. It is what it is.

But it's a good question, especially since we're on the verge of WWIII/nuclear war/who the hell knows what's next. Both political parties clearly and admittedly support U.S. imperialism (and the resultant murders, that can't be forgotten). When people vote for a duopoly politician, doesn't that mean they're OK with that? Isn't that the same as supporting it?

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54 users have voted.

Comments

snoopydawg's picture

and this is what many of us were saying to Hillary's supporters during the primary. How they could look at what she did during her tenure as SOS and refuse to see that she was a warmonger and voting for her was giving her their permission for the upcoming wars she would start.

The other thing I wrote about was this.

"When we turn out (and we did this year, as we did in 2006, 2008, and 2012), we win.”

Yes we won in those years, but what did it get us? Did democrats pass any legislation that would have helped main stream Americans? Did Obama try to pass a jobs bill? What happened to the shovel ready infrastructure bill?
What did Pelosi do after she got to be speaker of the house? She voted to continue to fund the Iraq war, the Bush tax cuts were made permanent and not one democrat spoke out against our use of renditions and torture.

I refused to vote for Obama in 2012, Hillary and Bernie because of their foreign policies views.

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28 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

Big Al's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg when you say "we" turned out, I can't relate as I've never been a democrat and never been involved in electoral politics like some here.
We know about Clinton, Obama, and now about Trump but both parties are also completely complicit not just at the leadership level but in their charters and how they vote for anything related to imperialism and the police state. We all know the bipartisan vote tallies of 98-2 or 330-5 or whatever that have been going on forever. And their platforms themselves support imperialism, there's no equivocation.

I recently contacted two of the challengers to my congressional district rep, Republican Herrera-Buetler (WA-03) and asked them both a simple question. Do you or do you not support U.S. imperialism? Neither responded back to me. We will not get any politicians running for either of these two parties to state they are against U.S. imperialism. Some may excuse that because of politics, but there can't be any more excuses.

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earthling1's picture

@Big Al
I'm in the wa-3 district also. Is Angela Marx running again?
I'm mulling the idea of challenging Buetler, but this is a really red district.

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Big Al's picture

@earthling1

https://www.opensecrets.org/races/summary?cycle=2018&id=WA03

Beutler, I don't even think she does anything except what they tell her to do.

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15 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@earthling1
is not a candidate who will have the strength to not be bamboozled by the corporate powers who own everything. So, why do you believe she will? I don't want to discourage her or put her down, but it's just another drop in the bucket whose waves will quietly disappear.

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8 users have voted.

"History is what the present chooses to remember" - Carl Becker

earthling1's picture

@mimi @mimi
Don't really know if she would roll over on us. I did meet her once and she seemed legit for progressive values.
McDevitt seems like a possible legit challenger. The real question for him would be: Does the DNC support your candidacy?
If yes, he's a corporate tool.
If not, he's our guy. This is how to separate the chaff, make the association with the DNC as tantamount to failure.
IMHO.

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Creosote.'s picture

@earthling1
Jenny Durkan, Seatle's next mayor, clearly had DNC funding. Her first of many glossy color flyers had the certification: a photo of her with Obama. It's clear the DNC wants to wipe any independent or socialist push for reforms out before their appeal increases. I suspect a few dollars from the big online market and WAPO owner made it easier for them.

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SnappleBC's picture

@mimi

From what I read, she is a sincere "Berniecrat" but she doesn't actually believe most of what Bernie said. Nor does she believe in the corruption of the DNC or the utter speciousness of #Russiagate.

I think her heart is in the right place but she is simply way too naive to be useful.

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8 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

thanatokephaloides's picture

@SnappleBC

I think her heart is in the right place but she is simply way too naive to be useful.

And the minute she announced her run for office, I suspected she'd lose.

This is America, after all. And there's definitely such a thing as "too honest and too clean" to succeed in politics.

Angela needs to read Machiavelli's Il Principe -- and learn its lessons.

Alas. Sad

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4 users have voted.

"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

k9disc's picture

@earthling1 .

Righties are prime for Leftist economics —Drumpf 2016, QED.

As long as you don’t name drop and reflexively defend name brand, corporate Dems (the ones on the TV), you’re good to go.

I think I’ve “known” you for about 10 years, if I got the user name right, you’ve got the policy and emotive chops to resonate with working class/working poor voters.

You should run if you’ve got no skeletons.

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5 users have voted.

“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Centaurea's picture

@Big Al

@earthling1

Are you referring to Dorothy Gasque and David McDevitt? Both of them are US Army veterans, and both were active in the Sanders campaign in 2016.

McDevitt's campaign website and FB page don't mention wars or US interventionalism. He seems to focus exclusively on domestic issues. He holds a lot of town halls, and has one scheduled for next Tuesday, 11/14, in Ridgefield. Maybe someone should go and put him on the spot, and see how he handles it. Wink

Gasque talks about not wasting US resources on "unnecessary wars". Other than that, she too focuses on domestic issues.

I think they're both good people and either would be far better than Herrera Beutler. But I really would like some sign that they would have the strength and integrity not to get sucked into the MIC game once they got to Washington D.C.

Edited to add: earthling1, as far as I know, Angie Marx is not running this time.

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13 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

snoopydawg's picture

@Big Al

this was said by someone on another website that I was arguing with after he said that he didn't care about what went on during the last election and that he was only interested in winning back congress so that democrats could fix everything that republicans have done recently and if they are able to pass the tax reform bill.
I told him what happened after democrats won in those years.

I'm done with this election farce. I know that it's just a game that the PTB let us take part in every two years so that we feel that we get some say in how our government works.

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22 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg Fully agree. Also, I believe it's a way for huge amounts of money to trade hands. Doesn't matter whether they win or lose, whether they're r's or d's, everybody still makes a shit-ton of money for nothing. The amounts spent on elections is sickening and could be used for much better purposes than making their cronies richer.

Yet, I've also read where the Koch brother-stooges are trying to do away with elections, and would prefer that senate choose their own. You know, because of the costs, etc.../s

On another note, watching the Putin episode 1 on Pbs, they showed clips of Quadafi being taken down. I couldn't watch it. Someone gave Hillary a phone to watch the video. It actually looked to me as if she was truly bothered by the scene, yet shortly after made her famous remark, "We came, we saw, he died." Why did we go into Libya?

Good times. Sad

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8 users have voted.

In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams

snoopydawg's picture

@mypiece

just like Bush lied about Iraq. Hillary was the one who was pushing him to invade Libya and overthrow Gaddafi because he dared using other currencies then the US dollar.
Here's Obama and Herheinous in their own words about why we had to remove Gaddafi.

Notice their hypocrisy.

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7 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

@snoopydawg Please excuse my misspelling. I read another article today, either on WayoftheBern or KossacksforSanders, a good post about what Libya lost. OMG. Income, healthcare, education...
They took it away from him and his citizens, and surely don't want us to have anything decent. I was still in dupe land, but how was this man so bad? (It's a rhetorical question; I'll have to do more research on my own) This has happened so many times and the US will support these countries if they go the route of austerity. I am so disgusted. At one time I felt it a privilege to be an American. Today, I'm disgusted. And embarrassed. And fed up.

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10 users have voted.

In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams

@snoopydawg SD, thanks for the video. I feel like throwing up. I can't even stand to listen to that man's voice and certainly not HERself. I can't believe that we aren't doing any better than we are. "You know better, you do better." Apparently, we don't know a damn thing about humanity.

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7 users have voted.

In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams

@snoopydawg

A great video - shows that America has been taken over by Russian trolls clear back to MLK, since real Americans could never consider protesting the abuses policies of their beneficent Betters, thereby forcing their own police to beat, gas and arrest them for petitioning their government for redress Interfering With Business As Usual. Damn Ruskies - how dare they produce actual news To Create Division In America?

The ideal must be achieved!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wrinkle_in_Time

...the dark planet of Camazotz, which has "given in" to the Black Thing. ...all the inhabitants behave in a mechanistic way and seem to be under the control of a single mind. At the planet's central headquarters (described as CENTRAL Central Intelligence), they discover a ... man with telepathic abilities who can cast a hypnotic spell over their minds. ...

Works on DKos, apparently...

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4 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

mimi's picture

@Big Al
noone will answer your question, because it's too broad a term to use and nobody really knows what you are asking or they pretend not to understand. Empire ... what kind of empire, we don't have kings around here... no, no, no...

Just saying ...

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11 users have voted.

"History is what the present chooses to remember" - Carl Becker

@Big Al

I am with you on this.

I will not vote for any candidate unwilling to take on war/imperialism issue.
Sanders,in particular, fails badly here.

We all know the bipartisan vote tallies of 98-2 or 330-5 or whatever that have been going on forever. And their platforms themselves support imperialism, there's no equivocation.

they won't face this issue unless we force it somehow.
keep coming back to a "good candidate" who will pull people together.
shows I have no real idea how we can go forward.

Sanders showed how ready the people are for big changes.
unfortunately he wasn't legit, imo.
cared too much about his future in the senate to jump when he had the chance.
never ran to win, imo.
a real shame.

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9 users have voted.
Steven D's picture

@snoopydawg unless they were consultants, in which case they got really cushy jobs for four more years.

Parties win elections, but people rarely do.

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6 users have voted.

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Strife Delivery's picture

At times, I just feel spent.

Americans are willingly blind. They demand lies and would spit out the truth in a heartbeat.

"Democrats are good! Democrats are the party of women, children and POC"

Lies.

How can the party be for women when they raped women in Vietnam, throughout WW2, and even Chelsea Manning?
How can the party for for POC when they committed war crimes against POC such as the Vietnamese, Japanese, Iraqis, and so many more.
How can the party be for children when they starved hundreds of thousands of them to death under Bill Clinton?
How can the party be for children when Obama personally ordered their deaths by bombing their schools?

I mean, this is just a small sampling. And yet, all you would get back from Democrats are deflections, smears, and justifications.

Both parties are a cancer to this world. It's as simple as that.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Strife Delivery

you have exposed their lies in a succinct way. This should be so obvious to anyone who says that. How they can still say that about the Clintons after the legislation that they passed during his tenure is unbelievable.

I still see people say that Obama ended two wars and he didn't start any new ones. This has to be the most astonishing thing I've seen written about him. Willfully blind or willfully stupid?

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17 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

Big Al's picture

@snoopydawg ones is typical of most democratic party supporters. In their minds they aren't supporting imperialism and war because they're so ignorant and full of propaganda they don't see it. Which is why Obama still carries a near 80% approval rating among democrats as he did while in office.
That also says something about the democratic party, it's full of propagandized dupes. But, that's America.

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15 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al It's unsurprising that, among those still remaining in the Democratic party, majorities believe in terrible ideas. What's surprising is that there's still a significant minority that dissents, usually around 25-30% of them.

If you look at the Democratic party in light of what happened last year, it all makes sense. For whom would the events of last year be tolerable? And this isn't a "poor Bernie" rant. Bernie wasn't the main person hurt by what happened last year. The people who were most deeply hurt were the scores of millions of ordinary people who supported him. I know you were never on that bandwagon, but imagine for a second that you were a Democrat of any stripe during those shenanigans. Imagine that you were portrayed as a dangerous chair-throwing thug, or watched half your party get portrayed as dangerous chair-throwing thugs, imagine that you watched the chair of a caucus arbitrarily change the rules on the fly to steal delegates from one side and give them to the other, that your voter registration data was altered so you couldn't vote, or that you watched that happen to others with nothing but smiles from Democratic party leadership, that you were purged outright off the voter rolls, or watched that happen and get swept under the rug by everyone in power. Or, if you prefer, imagine that you watched Hillary Clinton give a speech in which she implied that nuclear war was a good way of stopping espionage. There's a buffet of loathsomeness to talk about from last year, both in terms of political fraud and voter suppression and rotten policy and lies; that's just a sample.

Now imagine that you're willing to stay in the party she and her operatives lead, even after all that. OK, so maybe you think you can oust her and her faction from power. Then the DNC election is rigged against you and you're still willing to stay; the people who share your views get openly purged from the party, and you're still willing to stay.

In a group of people, whether establishment Dem or Berniecrat, who stay despite all that shit, it's unsurprising that a majority of them have terrible ideas. There's a minority who stayed who are don't believe in that stuff but believe they can oust the leadership and stay for that reason. For the rest of them, all that horrible shit is acceptable.

No surprise if they turn up in polls having horrible views.

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13 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Big Al

It also says something about the captured propagandistic media that's brainwashing them. Personally, I wouldn't be laying the blame on the victims for being conned...

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5 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

SnappleBC's picture

@Big Al

Do you happen to know what accounting they use to come up with that tally?

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5 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Big Al's picture

@SnappleBC a 79-80% approval rating among democrats throughout Obama's tenure and past it.

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6 users have voted.
ggersh's picture

@snoopydawg @Strife Delivery

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6 users have voted.

“We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy.”

― Chris Hedges

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Strife Delivery We're spent because we don't have ways to recharge ourselves. Doing so requires being more connected to one another and taking cultural territory, at least in the Temporary Autonomous Zone sense. We need to find each other. The PTB are spending a great deal of money and effort to make sure we can't, and have been doing so for decades.

I've got to hand it to the bastards, some of them are, at least, excellent strategists. Of course their strategies demand a level of sociopathy that is willing to sacrifice the entire world on the altar of their power, which is arguably a lunatic thing to do, even for a tyrant ("Here's my empire. I'm going to soak it with accelerant and toss a match! I win!"), but if you're willing to go there, the strategies are quite sound. They'll get you where you're going.

I don't know if I would have come up with the idea of a 40-year economic assault as a way of decreasing people's disposable time and money so much that any attempt at action is crippled, nor of getting people moving all over the country chasing economic prosperity, or perhaps economic survival, as a way of destroying those pesky communities that have caused potentates so much trouble over the centuries. Nor would I have thought of using a constant attachment to digital technology to disassociate people from the remains of their local communities and the places they live. This last has seemed to have additional benefits, in that, over the past ten years, people's ability to engage in the most basic personal interactions--and I'm not talking about political conversations--has eroded so much that it frightens me. It was fine as long as you had to sit down at your desktop, or sit down and open up your laptop, in order to connect to the screen world. That necessitated time away from screen as a large part of one's day. Now that people are connected constantly, to the point that people have to be told to stop looking at their smart phones while driving, for God's sakes, the erosion of the culture has become so severe that people are having trouble engaging in the most basic social interactions.

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13 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal CSTMS, most excellent comment. Unfortunately, those who know this truth are a small fraction of the population...because they (we) are lost in our little luxuries, our hedonistic lifestyles, our total ignorance to the real meaning of 'dirty politics'. When I have tried to let close friends and family know what I know and to open their eyes and do something, I'm met with condescension, people who think I'm the Debbie Downer, the one who pushes ct's, the one who talks politics too much...
Even at TOP, I tried to ask, when does a ct, and how does a ct become a fact if we don't bring it out in the open. Many truths started as ct's.
I don't know how they did it, but I am sort of shocked that we went from a 'live-and-let-live' society to feeling we have a say about everything we don't like about our neighbors. How we've become so judgmental and so cold to others trials...
Again, getting back to the 40-year plan...it is a much slower plan, but it has everything to do with the realities of the Powell memo, the Chicago-school Friedman bullshit and what they/we perpetrated on Venezuela, Argentina, and so many other places we've destroyed. They could not do the same thing in the same amount of time in the US (Is it because our citizens are strongly armed?)as they did in these other countries, but that is exactly what they are doing to us. And people don't get it. They still want to believe we're a bunch of pissed off poors that want to redistribute the rich's income--not realizing that that is exactly what has been happening, in the reverse, for the last forty years.
I'm going to stop now. I can't believe, really had to fight it, that I did not use one Fuck!

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14 users have voted.

In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams

snoopydawg's picture

@mypiece

When I have tried to let close friends and family know what I know and to open their eyes and do something, I'm met with condescension, people who think I'm the Debbie Downer, the one who pushes ct's, the one who talks politics too much...

My friends and family treat me the same way when I tried talking to them about this. Now when I visit my family and they are watching Rachel and hanging on to her every word. I just shake my head and stay quiet.

I bet there are others out there that experience this too.

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12 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

@snoopydawg I'm just afraid by the time people finally wake up to what's happening HERE, it will be too late. If it's not, already.

Many have said that Bernie woke us up. Maybe for some. For others, he just gave us a voice and a little more credibility.

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7 users have voted.

In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams

Centaurea's picture

@mypiece And the Bernie movement made us aware that we're not alone. I'm not alone in seeing what I'm seeing. There are others who are thinking about what I'm thinking about. I don't feel quite so marginalized as I did before. That realization by itself was worth the price of admission (my donations to the Bernie campaign, $27 at a time.)

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7 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

Creosote.'s picture

@mypiece
Sanders set a powerful example, and it was used pretty directly: speak out and be silenced or roughed up enough to allow the smell of death to reach any similar others.

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0 users have voted.

@snoopydawg Unfortunately, I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. It's not a quality of mine. When I saw a cousin and uncle this summer, for the first time in almost 30 years, I was the one saying we wouldn't let politics interfere with our visit. But when my uncle opened his mouth, I told him to shut off the hate radio, and I helped to save his soul by "flushing rush."

It just goes against my grain to keep my mouth shut...or to give any credence to bullshit. There are a few good things that come with age, I guess. Wink

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7 users have voted.

In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams

earthling1's picture

@Strife Delivery
Apathetic, for one reason or another. They just want to belong to some side to appear normal or engaged. When pressed, they really don't care which side is correct.
They remind me of Pseudo Christians. They fein belief to hide their atheism or complete apathy.
Cowards, really.
Gandhi quip;
"I like your Jesus, but I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Jesus."
In the same vein, they are not real old school FDR Democrats.
IMHO.

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11 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

@Strife Delivery @Strife Delivery If we are going to change things for the positive, we must look beyond the duopoly. I have stated here many times that I believe that most real change comes from grassroots social movements. It is only after a critical mass is reached by a social movement that the politicians may deign to follow.

It is great to see some progressives get elected into state and local offices and this is where we can make the most progress. But when you look at Congress or the Presidency, the corruption is too deep as a whole for a few good reps or even a senator or two to make much of dent. Big money will not allow that to happen.

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11 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStoptheMacedonianSignal

Wink's picture

by the "Deep State" (FBI, CIA, et al) as well as Wall Street and the MIC. As one article pointed out this week, Trump is more interested in detente and playing nice w/ Russia. But that doesn't fit with Deep State's plans to bomb the tender luvin' $h!t out of Moscow and Russia, bomb them off the planet. So... one could deduct (or not) that Deep State is leaning on Trump to lean in their direction. There are "weapon systems" need testing. ymmv

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12 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

dkmich's picture

I don’t ever go to DailyKos. Life is short.

Your description of dk is really good and really accurate. It is a conservative Democratic Party blog.

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25 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

divineorder's picture

@dkmich news since I left home for college in the 60s. Exceptions would be when visiting friends or relatives where I became a bad guest for shouting at the fail.

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12 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

gulfgal98's picture

@dkmich eight years ago and have never looked back. My home is so much more quiet and peaceful without the noxious drone of the television. Hub checks out movies from the library to watch, but I rarely watch them at all.

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11 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStoptheMacedonianSignal

dkmich's picture

@gulfgal98

There is some good stuff on TV, but it is all too expensive. Garbage to poison our brains is abundant.

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4 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

It is kinda comical when either of the two major parties claim to be the moral police.

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15 users have voted.

Mike Taylor

mimi's picture

that I am a good person who is not sexist, not racist and altogether a well balanced voter, who just considers that one should never discriminate any population group and never consider any of the moral issues, which are all so easily sold out for getting the one itsy bitty last vote from any of "them groups".

Oh those women, those latinas, those net-non-whites and those blacks, you are so much more moral than everybody else, for sure. I am so happy for you and I am happy to cater to your interests in order to get your vote. Ain't I a good person? /snark.

From the TOP article by Teacherken:

Before I do, let me note the following:

- of the 15 House of Delegates seats in Virginia that Dems picked up, 11 were by women, including not only Danica Roem as a transgender woman (and she is NOT the first such state legislator, as MA had one preiously), but the first two Latinas in in the general assembly

- we saw Blacks elected as mayors across the country, including in places like St. Paul MN

- in Virginia, if one trust the Washington Post exit polls, the pattern was unmistakable:

Northam won the following groups

-- Woman 61-39

— Blacks 87-12

— Latinos 67-32

— net Non-Whites 80-19

So, who of those women, latinas, blacks have convincingly fought against the US foreign policies which started the worst emigrations of nation's peoples in a century. Your candidates seem not to give a ... about what US foreign policies has started in the last 25 years. And unless they do, you can give forget them as well, as far as I am concerned.

It is said all politics is local. I would say that's not true anymore. All politics is global these days and therefore your candidates can't just take a hike and hide behind the fact that their electorate doesn't give a damn what happens "over there" and doesn't want to know. They are excused only because it's not their fault that they can't experience those migrations happening all over the world, especially in and out of the ME, Far East and Africa into Europe and out again.

Really, who gives a damn, if you are a latina, black, women, transgender, white or male (white or non-white) sell out when it comes to wars of profits outside the US territory? I mean you are a sell out first and everything else later.

Sorry to be blunt. Teacherken is a man I always respected for his intellect and feared at the same time. I never knew why, came out of my guts and my instincts. It may have become clearer to me nowadays. I am not sure.

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15 users have voted.

"History is what the present chooses to remember" - Carl Becker

@mimi

Really, who gives a damn, if you are a latina, black, women, transgender, white or male (white or non-white) sell out when it comes to wars of profits outside the US territory? I mean you are a sell out first and everything else later.

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11 users have voted.
lotlizard's picture

https://zcomm.org/zblogs/ron-paul-and-barney-frank-smashing-imperialism-...

Of course, their colleagues of both parties made sure their idea went nowhere and was never heard from again.

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9 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@lotlizard
quite interesting...

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4 users have voted.

"History is what the present chooses to remember" - Carl Becker

. When people vote for a duopoly politician, doesn't that mean they're OK with that? Isn't that the same as supporting it?

many think LOTE is the best they can do.
it does not mean they are OK with it.
but their vote helps the bosses. you are right.

what is your answer?.

"burn it down". lol.

monks used to immolate themselves to protest war in Vietnam.
the war lasted longer than the monks did, iirc.

I bet mick jagger never had a fight in his life.

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10 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

@irishking before. I want to take the hard line and say yes, you do own what you vote for. I suppose I could excuse those that are ignorant of what U.S. imperialism is doing around the world, those that don't know the truth. But what about those that do?
There have been many complaints in recent years about the lack of an antiwar left. Part of that problem stems from the left's reliance on the democratic party particularly during the last 9 years or so when we had Obama the Nobel Peace prize winner. Perhaps we do need to take a hard line and insist that people do own what they vote. It's not unlike those that serve in the military or those that work for the MIC. We give everyone a pass for something, maybe unless we stop with the passes we'll never stop anything.

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11 users have voted.

@Big Al

we do own what we vote, finally.
tptb are doing their best to make a principled vote nearly impossible.
hard to get information.

but having made all the excuses, how hard is it to find Middle East on a map?
the killing has been going on for a long time.

there is such a thing as being willfully blind.
but having said all that, what is a poor boy to do?
except the same old, rotten old, thing.

I voted stein/baraka for the reasons you give. will not support the parties of war any longer.

But I voted dem for years, as a dupe.
I am not ok with it, for all the good that does me.

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6 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al I've taken to asking for more every time they try that Overton window shit on me.

They don't like single-payer? They offer me Romneycare?

Great. Now, instead of universal health insurance, I want a nationalized health service paid for out of public funds, like the Brits have, combined with an increase in taxes on the top .01% that will account for no less than 50% of program costs. Fuck insurance. Have a nice day.

Similarly, if they try to make the war in Syria moral because Assad is a tyrant, I now say "Fine. Let's pass a law that says that any President who starts a war, and any general or admiral who prosecutes that war, and any CEOs who sell weapons used in that war, are legally required to shoot themselves six months from start of hostilities. If they refuse to do so, they will lose the protection of the law, and any citizen is free to murder them without reprisal."

It doesn't accomplish anything in terms of changing conditions, but it's a helpful way to deal with their current propaganda/perception management techniques.

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6 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Big Al's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal they want left, we'll show em left.

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5 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Nobody wants to say this, but when a person straps a bomb to their chest and walks into a crowded place and detonates themselves, often it's because the United States had committed acts of torture or murder that have affected them personally. I wish they wouldn't take it out on people who clearly have no power and no say in whether or not those murders and that torture happens. That's what makes such things morally unjustifiable. But to think they are unconnected to the murder and torture happening everyday is another form of profound hypocrisy.

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12 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

divineorder's picture

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13 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Big Al's picture

@divineorder Man, it's getting out of hand now.

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10 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@divineorder That "thank you for your service" thing rings hollow as hell to me. Sounds like another form of virtue-signalling, more about the person saying it than about the veteran spoken to. In most cases, it's a form of showing off "Look how patriotic I am! Look how good I am! I'm thanking this serviceman! Look, look!"

Further, my main feeling when looking at vets is not gratitude, but more like feeling sick at heart, regret at what they had to go through. I'm not *grateful* they had to go through that!

The only time I felt different was in the Baltimore airport once, when a bunch of WWII vets were getting off a plane, en route to some event in D.C. I believe that prosecuting that war was the right thing to do, and that those vets served purposes I could get behind when they fought, and I *do* appreciate their sacrifice.

That still didn't make me recite some rote talking point at them as a way of showing what a good American I am.

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7 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

But A Good American Worships War On The World For Corporate/Billionaire Power And Profit! You must not have been programmed correctly!

American Business Interests need Total Dominance Over Everything, you unpatriotic swine!

How can people be conned into risking life and limb to kill civilians all over the globe to steal their stuff for The Right People at US public expense when they know they'll likely get none of the benefits they were promised once they've become damaged, useless eaters, if you don't pointlessly thank them at every opportunity?

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4 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

The Aspie Corner's picture

She was assassinated by Billary's state department as they aided the coup in Honduras. And yet the morons at Daily Kos backed Billary anyway because Drumpf, who was propped up by Billary while her campaign ran the DNC.

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16 users have voted.
lotlizard's picture

@The Aspie Corner  
Before her assassination, Berta Cáceres singled out Hillary Clinton for backing Honduran coup

In U.S. Deep State special-ops world, “wise Latina” gets you killed.

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8 users have voted.
divineorder's picture

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16 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder Thank you for this post. Yeah, the transcript is unbelievable. Again, going along with CSTMS, this shit is real and we better start believing it is.

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9 users have voted.

In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams

mimi's picture

@divineorder
what a brave, moral voice he is. Thanks for the link to his speech. Listened to it in full and just bow, kudos. I haven't heard anything by him I didn't like and supported, since a long time.

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8 users have voted.

"History is what the present chooses to remember" - Carl Becker

@divineorder

the words are not that big.
but Sanders is even smaller.

he knows this goes on and says nothing.
is he really our hero?

"you just got to eat around it", huh Bernie.

roky with cam king & explosives

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4 users have voted.

@divineorder @divineorder

People like Wilkerson & Hedges, to name just two, are spelling it out.
but they are heard by relatively few.

If Sanders or Warren,to name two, were to make this speech on the senate floor it might help.
they just won't do it.

so here we are. we can't even get a speech made on the senate floor.
why not?

what is more important than our killing people every day?
they won't touch it. that's our progressive leadership?
no, it is not.

I just won't "eat around it".
they must be called out. it is the very least we can do.

are we even able to challenge someone like Sanders?
who can ask him about our wars?

wtf is going on with the bernie lovefest?
why won't he read this speech?

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5 users have voted.
earthling1's picture

@divineorder
too many people are reading that transcript, it's now unavailable.
The Internet Police struck again?

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3 users have voted.
Wink's picture

for any of them? This (mess we're in) is going to flip rather quickly. The tipping point has been reached. Finally, we, the people, will not allow the Paul Ryans to run the joint. Sanity will again rule.

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6 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

rarely mention wars and imperialism.
They are out in front on oligarchy/millionaire/billionaire slurs. Kos would ban you for using the term "oligarchy" over a year ahead of the Cloobeck threat to the Dems. How prescient of him.
A vote for a Democrat is a show of support for Empire to prop up a class of people Democrats are not allowed to describe by name.
Fuck them.

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15 users have voted.
divineorder's picture

@on the cusp When Moulitsas called for end in Afganistan, and LL did as well. They both shut up about the same time ?

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9 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder The antiwar sentiment came and went. Strongly suggests hush money, doesn't it?

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8 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@divineorder

as Bush did. He ran on ending the Iraq war, yet he tried to keep troops there after the status of forces agreement. But he got them back there anyway.

If anyone is interested, I have Joe's diary on Obama's use of drones. There were quite a few people who said that they should be used.
I too fought with people about them. One person said that he agreed using them because they saved our troop's lives. He didn't question the legality of using them period.

As we saw, kos was willing to vote for Her even after what she did as SOS. When she ran against Obama, kos took her to task for her Iraq war vote and many, many other issues, yet he didn't have a problem with the issues when she ran against Bernie and Trump. This is called hypocrisy and it goes for everyone there who said that she isn't a warmonger. Her reaction to the video of Gaddafi's death shows that she lacks any empathy for her actions.

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7 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

Republicans support every level of imperialist aggression. They just object to a democrat running it.

Democrats support every level of imperialist aggression. They just object to a republican running it.

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17 users have voted.
Steven D's picture

@MrWebster right.

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9 users have voted.

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

@MrWebster Perfectly stated.

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6 users have voted.
SnappleBC's picture

I believe it to be true of my [past] self. I voted for Obama in '08. That puts a lot of blood on my hands. I tried to talk to my own family about reality but they were caught up in the liberal bubble. So yes, I told them they were bloody-handed murderers.... willing to slaughter strangers for not even profit in their case but simply convenience... the convenience of not having to question their own thoughts. For that comfort, they are willing to actively support the death of millions.

Yes, that is a cold-hearted assessment... both of myself and others. And yet it's a cold-hearted reality being played out so I see little point in obfuscation.

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4 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@SnappleBC

I'd like to point out that you didn't know at the time, and that a lot of people were very effectively conned, some of us for longer than we like to have to admit. Doing any such thing now, of course, such as voting for a neo warmonger, would be different.

But good luck getting through to them...

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1 user has voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

SnappleBC's picture

@Ellen North

I could've known had I bothered to investigate anything for even one moment before the combination of Obama, the GFC, and #Occupy managed to wake me up enough to dig a bit. It's not like I didn't already know, for instance, that the NSA has a long history of domestic surveillance. It's not like I didn't know about torture. It's not like I didn't know about Guantanamo and, in general, "black sites". It's not like I didn't know about for the for-profit judicial system and the impact of racism on black populations. The list goes on.

Yeah, in one sense I was "caught in the matrix". The area I fault myself (and my family) is that none of us needed to be. We were well read enough and knowledgeable enough to know better but it was simply too comfortable to believe in hope & change.

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2 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@SnappleBC

You overcame an enormous and long-running propaganda machine when the evidence piled up, and much earlier than many, to not only realize that Obama's 'hope and change' was for the Psychopaths and Parasites That Be only and at the cost of Americans and America's (remaining wispy shreds of) democracy but that no Presidential superman alone could save you or your country from powerful predators.

It's a human thing for those who are decent and well-intentioned themselves to assume that others who appear to be are also decent and well-intentioned; we have to learn the hard way that in such areas as politics and industry, any such trust must be conditional, and verified continually.

Not to mention that the abuse of the public trust must be known to invariably bear consequences well worth avoiding, rather than rewarded, as is currently the case.

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0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Creosote.'s picture

@SnappleBC
"For [...] comfort, they are willing to actively support the death of millions" -- also the death of the planet and the entire record of human and environmental history, from universities to libraries and museums, forests and agriculture to the oceans.
It must all be air-conditioned comfortably via the media.

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0 users have voted.