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Our local Dominican Hospital is putting up tents in their parking lot in preparation for the Coronavirus. UCSC has required students to take classes online now and if possible to leave and study from home.

What is interesting about this to me, is that people are simply taking matters into their own hands. No one is telling them to do this. No one is organizing them. Without any imposed structure things are happening quickly and in a coherent way. All this, and to date there are only two known COVID-19 cases in our county. Clearly we can solve problems and self organize when we are presented with an imminent threat.

Our city council recently declared a state of emergency, but it's people who are implementing the necessary measures to ensure that the virus is contained and does not spread. Our local Costco has been selling up to a million dollars of goods a day because people are stocking up. Normally they only sell that much during Christmas season. The streets are empty, as are the stores and restaurants. So we humans can, when push comes to shove, actually turn on a dime at mach nine.

zzz ucsc tree.jpg

Glass half full. When will they have the same reaction to the Climate Crisis [she wonders].

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Lookout's picture

When will they have the same reaction to the Climate Crisis?

When major cities flood and there are food shortages. Sadly, we react rather than being proactive.

Dr John Campbell has been focused on that approach saying the solution to COVID-19 will be
"of the people, by the people, for the people."
Here's his take today...(12 min)
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV3h0XfVm0o]

EDIT to add - We can be proactive. I'm taking vitamin D and C, and we are largely self isolating. Be careful friends.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Lookout's picture

@Lookout

Give everyone the virus so the market will come back...yeah right. (8.5 min)
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6DQBG8D4X4]

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

magiamma's picture

@Lookout
For covid-19 coverage and it is useful. They have a good article on how to stock your pantry which listed a few things I forgot.

Thanks everyone for all the posts on this. It has helped immensely.

Morning lo. Thanks for regularly posting the covid-19 updates. Sadly you are right. As a species, in general, we react. Instead of proact. (New word?) Be safe and well.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I am not prepared, should things shut down in a way that one can't buy food or medicine. That was this year's project (damn and blast).

However, I'm guessing that, since 80% of cases are "mild"--meaning you get flu-like symptoms and feel like shit for 10 days, but don't need to be on a respirator and don't die--and since this is America, probably sick people who are working-class and keep the supply chain running will continue to go to work. Which is terrible in terms of spreading the disease (and the more ordinary terribleness of people having to work when they're sick), but will mean that the supply chains will not simply shut down, and supplies will be interrupted sometimes, sparse sometimes, but not completely unavailable.

That's assuming that China and the East generally continue to manage their response as well as they have, and that they don't have a big resurgence of the disease.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

magiamma's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
It’s the meds that worry me he most. People can’t do without.

I read somewhere that a100 bag of wheat was the most effective food to store. It is not on my list however. I have no way to grind it for starters. Just an fyi. Rice and beans are my basic go-tos.

For face touching, scarfs and gloves are good to remind oneself. It gets easier with practice. Just when I think I’m okay, then I have an itch. It is super important because this virus is passed by water droplets apparently.

Be safe and I hope y’all can get what you need.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@magiamma

assuming one can't get fresh meat, fish, or greens (which suit my particular metabolism best--which is too bad, b/c it makes me a higher-maintenance hominid).

I'm concerned about medication, certainly. Kate is on many. I'm pretty sure her insulin comes from stateside, but the rest is likely from Asia. OTOH, Asia might get on its feet faster than anybody else, since none of those countries apart from, perhaps, North Korea, has a power structure run by psychopaths. Sociopaths, probably, but not psychopaths. They want there to be a China with living Chinese people in it (or a Japan, a VietNam, a South Korea, etc.) The people running the United States don't give a shit whether there's a United States except for the purposes of maintaining a large high-tech military and surveillance operation. As long as that's going on, the rest can burn as far as they care.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Lily O Lady's picture

@magiamma
wheat in an old hand cranked coffee grinder. I was to stave off starvation during a terrible blizzard.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

magiamma's picture

@Lily O Lady
So, I remember reading somewhere about a young woman in China during some war returning to her home and digging up a stash of 100 year old eggs which saved her from starvation. Always wondered if that was a real possibility.

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Lily O Lady's picture

@magiamma

of stories of people fighting starvation over the years. My imagination takes me into their world. I guess that’s why I’m for Bernie.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

WoodsDweller's picture

@magiamma
we could do a storage food primer. I'm not sure I'm up to the task, but maybe.

One redeeming feature of the LDS church is food storage. Check the University of Utah and Utah state agencies for advice on food storage, but much of it is geared to long-term storage which isn't what we're trying to accomplish here.

Canned goods kept in the basement will last a couple of years, they should be enough to get by.

Store what you eat, eat what you store.

I'm on my way to town (finally!) to get supplies. I'll be getting canned soups, canned meats, an extra box of Minute Rice (because that's what I eat), yokeless egg noodles, juices, hot chocolate mix, coffee, Tang (because drinking plain water gets fatiguing). Dry cereal. Those (expensive!) shelf-stable milk units. Nuts, nut butter, tortillas (last much longer than bread, particularly in the refrigerator, I guess you can freeze them as well), canned beans. Bottled sauces. Boxed dry pasta.

Don't bother with wheat (yes, I've got some, yes I have a hand-cranked grinder, no I'll never use it). The "Mormon four" are wheat, honey, salt, and powdered milk. Now make a month worth of meals for your family from that!

A bottle of honey isn't a bad idea.

Whatever you like for snacks. Food fatigue is a real thing, a little variety goes a long way.

Oh, and I'll be getting my normal fresh food too.

While you're at it, don't forget normal stuff. Vitamins, TP (you don't need a truck load), handi-wipes, toothpaste, soap, that sort of thing.

Wander the aisles, including aisles you don't ordinarily visit. Of course the WalMart here has half an aisle of nitrogen-packed storage food, but some of you live in the howling wilderness of New York City where you can't get basic supplies like nitrogen packed wheat and shotgun shells.

Seriously, we're only talking about being isolated for two or three weeks at a time at most. If you have a water source (like the tap) and cooking fuel it isn't any great issue.

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

magiamma's picture

@WoodsDweller
Cold cellars and canning is what I grew up with. But I think you right in that this should last for two or three weeks if we are lucky and can self organize.

Again I think the gating factor will be the testing. Only ~77k tests from the cdc this week. That’s barely a drop in the bucket.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

can't simply bunker in. Please do take every possible precaution, y'all.

I'm having a hard time with not touching my face, myself. I have to be more mindful.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

She wears a lightweight neck gater pulled up over her mouth. Like wearing a dust mask it is useless at stopping airborne transmission, but it does protect us from our forgetfulness about limiting our hand to mouth contact.

Social isolation is still highly effective, for those who are willing and able to do so.

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Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@ovals49

That's what people were saying masks were good for, but since the CDC et al keeps telling us not to use them (mainly, I think, because medical professionals need them), I'm not doing it.

I also rub my eyes ALL the goddamned time. At least having glasses now means that I'm aware of it when I do it.

as for isolation, we are going to be doing it--but we need supplies. And since I don't think I can just snap my fingers and get a fullscale prepper pantry, we will continue to need to go out for food and medicine. Otherwise, yes, we will be social isolating.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Lookout's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

for running errands. Then come home and wash them and you. Disposable gloves are an idea for shopping too. We wore them on the airplane last month. Still can't touch your face though. Currently we are carrying a small pack of tissue to use like a glove when using an ATM, etc. The nearest case currently is in Rome, GA. So not critical here yet. None the less, we are minimizing our trips to town to a once a week resupply.

Fortunately most people (about 80%) only have mild cases...aches and fevers, and some infected folks have no symptoms at all. Be well!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lookout

Travel clothes. Great notion. Nice and simple. Most of the things that help will be like that.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Granma's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal in this area. First time is free at some stores. That might help you.

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magiamma's picture

@ovals49
A neck gater is a great idea. Really anything that can jumpstart a new habit.

Plumber came by yesterday and said, guess we can’t shake hands. We’re not supposed to do that.

Endearing. And appreciated. People get it. Isolation is definitely the ticket if possible. Be safe and be well.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@ovals49
my bicycle commuting days, but they're pretty heavy for spring daytime, I'll have to check. All one needs is a slightly stretchy tube, so I suppose one could fabricate one from a pair of tights, but my old bike tights, like the turtles are heavyweight cold-weather gear. Maybe one could start a fashion trend.

have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

We sometimes use a product called Airborne when the sore throat / sniffles start. They are effervescent tablets (like alka seltzer) loaded with vitamin C ( 1667% DV) plus many other vitas and mins. Vitas A and E, riboflavin, magnesium, selenium, manganese, sodium, potassium and a plethora of herbals (like ginger) and an amino acid blend.

Have been using it before and after airplane rides for years. Works well. your mileage may vary

www.airbornehealth.com

good luck

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magiamma's picture

@QMS
Thanks for that suggestion. A good one and easy. Have a good one...

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Raggedy Ann's picture

Thank you for all you do for us here with your climate essays, work for Bernie, and now the virus. Indeed - the people will have to come together.

I posted in another essay that I worry most for the homeless - they have no recourse - they will die in the streets because we do not have a health care system. We could see mass devastation in this country, but maybe that's what tptb hope for.

I work at a university and they are starting to take some measures, but we only had confirmed cases as of yesterday. Next week is spring break and my director said I could work from home for the week - which will help and the fact I live rurally helps, too - and then we can reassess after the break, depending what the New Mexico landscape looks like. Taking precautions is critical.

Have a great day, everyone! Pleasantry

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

magiamma's picture

@Raggedy Ann
Bac atchya. Thanks for all you do.

More and more places are telling people to work at home, if they can. The valley over the hill is deserted now. Easy for geeks to work from home.

It’s the other supply-chain businesses that are the issue. Stock up on what you can if possible and hunker down.

I think we will know a lot more about what we are up against in a week or two. We the people may be able to slow this down.

Be well.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@magiamma

or in those Amazon warehouses.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

ggersh's picture

@magiamma of course unless this was all intended, stay safe everyone and yes it is the
supply chain that is the major concern

‘I had to move quickly’: Trump explains travel ban without consulting EU, says Britain excluded for GOOD JOB on coronavirus

Oh wait.....can't make this shit up

Boris Johnson says UK faces ‘worst public health crisis in generation’ (WATCH LIVE)
rt.com

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

magiamma's picture

@ggersh
Less testing means less results means less data means more wool over eyes. But that’s not gonna fool folks this time. People are on it. May it expose the charade. The curtain is pulled back. Heh.

And this from the nyt

A senior Brazilian government official who visited Mar-a-Lago days ago, and was in close proximity to President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, has tested positive for the new coronavirus, Brazil’s government confirmed on Thursday.

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WoodsDweller's picture

@ggersh
that the UK exception was because of the presence of Trump golf courses. I haven't bothered to verify.

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

magiamma's picture

@WoodsDweller
Big belly laugh Lol

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Raggedy Ann

"making the vaccine affordable" because the first thing I thought of was the homeless tent city in my town.

Fucking psychopaths.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Raggedy Ann's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
make the vaccine FREE???

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
We could go about this the way the polio vaccine was development was funded. GoFundMe instead of March of Dimes. Once done that was sold at cost (no royalties, etc.) to US public health agencies that arranged vaccinations for the public.

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enhydra lutris's picture

you do/have been doing.

We've been pretty much self-isolated, especially since we had colds when this started and they are still hanging on. Monday my wife went out and stocked up on dried beans and lentils and a few similar items. We often travel with jugs of water from home, so I brought the jugs in from the shed to fill if there is any risk of a water delivery interruption, which is very unlikely here. Local stores were pretty much emptied, but Wed is one of their delivery days, so I'll go out later and get more (gotta have some corned beef for next week, ya know). Also stock up on propane and butane cannisters for our assorted travel stoves, grills and such. We already have something of a pantry anyway because we bulk buy a lot of not perishable to semi-perishable goods simply to cut down on needed shopping trips and save money.

Don't forget furnace filters and vacuum cleaner bags if you use them, it's stuff like that that we never stockpile until we run out.

Have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

@enhydra lutris
Thanks for all those suggestions. Pet food if you have a pet. The nyt article is quite good for food basics.

Self isolation, if you can, is smart for the next couple of weeks until we see how this unfolds. There may be lots of asymptomatic folks about so it cannot hurt to stay low for now.

Be well.

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enhydra lutris's picture

response just might catch on. If it works well enough from the employer and boss perspective, they might institute in on a permanent full or part-time basis. That would help air quality, traffic, demand for gasoline and a ton of other commuter related issues and help a bit with the climate crisis too.

have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

@enhydra lutris
Indeed. One can hope. Right? !

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@enhydra lutris

But we were stuck in the era of StupidWrongBad.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

enhydra lutris's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
distrust issue at work, even if they can see the work getting done, they can't ehlicopter, micromanage and, frankly, oversee "their" workers and get very uneasy. WE discovered just how bad it is after Loma Prieta. Everybody had good grounds to work from home if their job description and duties permitted it, but few if any employers permitted it all the same or else left it to managerial discretion and the managers, perpetually worried about their bonuses, blocked it.

have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
To working at home. It’s way lower on the extraction food chain. Less fossil fuel consumption. Less time sitting in a car and in traffic. Less breathing of toxic exhaust chemicals. Less time rushing around at work. More time doing actual work.

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Shahryar's picture

CNN finally admitted it but also lied.

Their article says bernieledon election night but that the margin had dwindled. Not true! Or always a 7 to 8 point lead! Vox, and you know about them, is following CNN and writing that *now* Bernie has won CA.

Also showing the fix and demonstrating CNN's power, I mentioned the other day that they had "accidentally" added 2000 votes to Biden in Washington, turning a Bernie 1940 vote lead into a 60 vote deficit. Then CNN removed those not actually cast or counted Biden fakes but somehow NBC got a hold of it and wrote about Biden's 60 vote lead.

I guess the press has always been biased and run by liars. Still it's painful to see it so out in the open.

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Lily O Lady's picture

@Shahryar

for important stories like “Chicken Crosses Road.”

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

magiamma's picture

@Shahryar
Go Bernie. Bring it down. Lol

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symptom in our 'land of plenty'.
Once distribution breaks down
whole new black markets will appear.

Bidding wars on Facebook Market
for cases of TP...
Craigslist futures on dust masks...

Wink

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enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS
contingencies and anticipated supply interruptions and hoarding so as to gouge those without. I think a certain amount of the arguably overzealous stocking up going on right now is in anticipation of hoarders/gougers buying up everything for the specific purpose of reselling. It's like event tickets, get yours immediately or pay a 1000% premium later.

have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Roy Blakeley's picture

One is that the key to minimizing the damage from COVID-19 is testing. Tests are relatively cheap and if they are applied very widely, the spread of the disease can be minimized. South Korea has done this, and it has worked very well. Wide-spread testing also gives people some confidence that when they go out they will not be exposed to the virus so it is less economically disruptive. Instead of restricting testing, we should be requiring testing. COVID-19 is MUCH, MUCH more harmful to older people than younger people. It appears that the death rate for people in their 80s is 14-15% and around 8% for people in their 70s. For people in their 20s it is 2 in a thousand--much worse than influenza, but much better than for people >60. So a rational response would be massive testing and self-quarantining with lots of help in getting food,etc. for people >60.

A second is that both Trump and Biden are idiots who are woefully scientifically ignorant and can not make thoughtful decisions in times like these. We need Bernie not just for policy but for competence.

Third, this country was once very good at collective action, WWII being a prime example. I wonder how the era of glorification of greed and denigration of society (which Margaret [failed chemist and general idiot] Thatcher famously proclaimed not to exist) has affected our ability to act together for the good of society. My guess is that people are still willing but the leadership is lacking.

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magiamma's picture

@Roy Blakeley @Roy Blakeley
Well said. Good points about testing and older folks staying home.

We need a ww2 effort and ain’t gonna come from the government. But it could happen in spite of it. Cause there are enough who remember what that was like. I grew up with stories about that whole collective effort. It’s in my bones still.

Edit to add - not sure how to pull of the testing needed. Gating factor.

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@Roy Blakeley Crisis Capitalism rules. The US govt. blocked use of the WHO approved testing here so Lab Corp and other players could develop testing and make a bunch of money from it. Think about that as you watch grandma dying in the nursing home!

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Jen's picture

Something else that people with more money than me has forced upon the rest of us. If everyone was as poor as I am, nobody would travel halfway across the world and come back with something that affects us all. So, I place the blame squarely at the feet of those that have enough money left over after paying all the bills to blow on gallivanting all over the Earth.

Stockpile? Yeah, right. Barely have enough to buy what we need for 1 week. Longer than that and we're fucked.

Isolate? Work from home? My husband is in construction, my son is a landscaper for a university, and my preemie granddaughter is in NICU until at least the beginning of May. It's just not possible.

I wonder how long before someone shoots someone for coughing in public?

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Is it great yet?

magiamma's picture

@Jen
Yes. You are not alone. My heart reaches out.

There are many people who cannot not work. Whose jobs require them to be out. Who cannot work from home. Who cannot stay home and take care of children whose schools have been closed.

And there are the homeless. We have many here, being a warmer place in the winter and having services for them. Albeit services provided by nonprofits not by the city or state.

Good point. It was those who traveled for pleasure who first brought the virus to our city. And moreover there are thousands that travel on the corporate dime. Lots of business travel from the Silicon Valley to China daily.

Really it’s capitalism that is the root cause of it all.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Jen

I have not forgotten that there are people in your position and I never will.

There may be something I can do to help people who are in your position who are local to me. I'm not sure what, but there may be something (other than prayer). It's difficult for an individual or even a small group to change the infrastructure of an essentially venomous economic system, but there still may be some collective action that could help.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

local groups are shutting down
afraid of some damn virus
people still need help
be brave and step up
support what we can

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WoodsDweller's picture

Let's not forget about these. They may be small or large, but expect them. McPherson quotes a Science paper from 18 months ago that a 30% reduction in artificial aerosols (for example, as a result of a pandemic) will give 1C of additional warming within a few weeks. Beckwith did a video where he was using numbers an order of magnitude smaller. I don't know where he got them, maybe some obsolete IPCC numbers. He came up with 0.25C localized warming in China, and of course China seems to have contained their outbreak for now and maybe they'll go back to work polluting the Earth and keeping us all alive.
So we may very well see climate impacts to agriculture. Of course, lots of farmers are older folks at risk and may not be able to work the fields.

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

magiamma's picture

@WoodsDweller
I have been avoiding thinking about that actually. I guess we will find out soon enough.

Not trying to be flippant. It’s the elephant in the room.

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Lookout's picture

@WoodsDweller

The North American (NASA) and European (ESA) space agency satellites detected in recent weeks a “significant” drop in nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels in China’s airspace. The reduction can be linked, at least partially, to the economic slowdown following the coronavirus outbreak.

According to NASA scientists, the reduction of NO2 contamination was “evident” for the first-time near Wuhan, where the virus was first detected, but eventually spread throughout the country. In January, transportation was closed to and from Wuhan, as well as local businesses.

“This is the first time I see such a dramatic fall in such a wide area for a specific event,” said Fei Liu, an air quality researcher at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center. Liu remembers seeing a fall in NO2 in several countries during the economic recession that began in 2008, but the decline was gradual.

https://www.zmescience.com/science/coronavirus-air-quality-china-05232/

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

CB's picture

@WoodsDweller
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s1adfSwmCQ]

All that cement requires burning one hell of a lot of coal.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

that having a single-payer health care system is not always enough.

IOW, the "design" or "structure" of it, matters tremendously.

(IMO) We cannot allow a MFA/UMFA system that allows for over-the-top UM, Prior Authorization requirements, ACO's (which are only HMO "on training wheels" as some experts describe them, and value pricing (capitation fees, etc.). Kip Sullivan is spot on on this point (about ACO's)

Read yesterday--now, it's is possible that it has changed, but, this is good faith attempt to share factual information Wink --Italy is second only to China regarding the spread of COVID-19/case numbers. (could be they've conducted more tests--that I don't know)

Here's a brief description of Italy's single-payer healthcare system. (I'm researching it, and, will try to provide more detail, later. I'm hoping that we can avoid their errors if/when we establish a similar system.) Of course, this is Wikipedia. Admittedly, not a scholarly publication.

Healthcare in Italy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Healthcare spending in Italy accounted for 9.2% of GDP in 2012 (about $3,200 per capita) of which about 77% is public,[1] slightly lower than the average of 9.3% in OECD countries.[2]

In 2000 Italy's healthcare system was regarded, by World Health Organization's ranking, as the 2nd best in the world after France,[3] and according to the World Health Organization, Italy has the world's 6th highest life expectancy.[4] The life expectancy at birth in Italy was 82.3 years in 2012, which is over two years above the OECD average.[2]

Also,

History

After World War II, Italy (re-)established its social security system including a social health insurance administered by sickness funds. In the 1970s the social health insurance faced several equity problems as coverage differed between the sickness funds and around 7% of the population remained uninsured. Moreover, sickness funds went practically bankrupt by the mid-1970s. Due to growing public dissatisfaction with the existing healthcare system, Italian policymakers instituted structural reform. In 1978, the government established the SSN (Servizio Sanitario Nazionale) — the Italian version of a National Health Service — including universal coverage and tax funding.

(Had to drop blockquotes, because it was covering other unintended paragraphs. Hopefully, bold face, will do.)

Already seeing articles about a possible "public option." IOW, will that be Biden's solution to healthcare reform? (MSM, apparently, assuming that he will be the DP nominee.) Heaven help us all, if it is. Or, if Biden's the nominee. Personally, believe he'll be decimated in the Sunday debate. IOW, "toast." Smile

Thanks for this OT, Magi. Take care of yourself (sounds like you are). Be well.

Pleasantry

Mollie

“This above all: to thine own self be true
And it must follow, as the night the day
Thou canst not then be false to any man . . ."
~~William Shakespeare

“Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then, I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving.”
~~Author Unknown

“The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.”
~~George Bernard Shaw
Irish Dramatist & Socialist (1856-1950)


WhiskerDocs

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal @Unabashed Liberal I saw a comment from someone in Lombardy yesterday (probably at Naked Capitalism) who said that their regional health system has been suffering from higher and higher levels of privatisation/crapification for the last several decades. They may not be as far along as in the USA but some people are working hard at trying to catch up. After all, what use is there to having all that money sitting in a public health system taking care of people when it could be in someone's bank account?

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@MichaelSF

reason I bothered to look at Italy's healthcare system, was because I had remembered--although couldn't remember where I read it--that they have a top-notch healthcare system. Or, did.

Heh, like NC, too. Pleasantry

Have a good one!

“I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive.”
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

“In a world where you can be anything–be kind.”
~~Author Unknown

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

magiamma's picture

@Unabashed Liberal
Thanks for all the amazing research you do. I am still hoping for a miracle Bernie nomination. It isn’t over until it’s over.

Yes, Italy is a mess from all I can figure out. One of the reasons I have stepped up to the plate on all this. Every minute counts now.

So good to see you. Lol

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@magiamma

Pleasantry

Mollie

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.”
~~Will Rogers, Actor & Social Commentator

“Love makes you stronger, so that you can reach out and become involved with life in ways you dared not risk alone.”
~~Author Unknown, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD) Website

“In a world where you can be anything–be kind.”
~~Author Unknown

“I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive.”
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

CB's picture

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvXhcWXfOyg]

Unfortunately, in the US there will be 5 epicenters like China's Wuhan. Meanwhile, the US continues to lose valuable time.

Trump fully understands the predicament his constituents have been placed under with COVIDS-19.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-NP7PGhXyg]

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CB's picture

federal government has handled this crisis. The fuckers in Washington didn't even know citizens were dying from a new and deadly virus.


Washington’s blame game hides US prevention failure

Published: 2020/3/13

Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), was asked by lawmakers when testifying in a House subcommittee on Wednesday if it’s possible that some Americans died of what on the surface seems like influenza but is in fact COVID-19. He confirmed it.

This is a very important piece of information, telling people that the state of novel coronavirus outbreak in the US is much larger than the data that has been released so far. The US just reported over one thousand of confirmed cases and more than 30 deaths. The US’ testing capacity has been far from enough to meet the demand, leading to a cover-up of the true state of the epidemic.
...
President Trump said the US is more prepared than any other country to deal with the new coronavirus, and the virus will not have a chance in the US. But his promises have done little to reassure. The US hasn’t taken firm steps to expand the scope of testing, or to significantly reduce human contact. That means not only are there more infected people in the US than official number, those infected people have many opportunities to contact healthy people.

In the US, efforts to stimulate the economy seem to be moving faster than efforts to prevent epidemic, and protecting people’s lives still doesn't seem to be a top federal policy priority. But with investors lacking confidence in the US response, the stock market in the US has fallen sharply and the markets are filled with pessimism and panic.
...
The US has a misguided policy of only suspending flights to and from epidemic-hit places. The US, which first suspended flight to and from China, now leads the way to suspend travel from European countries. But it has done little to stop the spread of community transmission, and has all but given up the efforts. The focus on the election led the administration to try to sugarcoat the fact, saying that the risk to the American people from the virus was low and there was no need to panic. Vice President Mike Pence led the federal epidemic prevention, which has had little effect.
...

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Combatting Coronavirus would be overwhelming for anyone. But when you don't believe in science what tools do you use? A Ouija board? A magic 8-ball?

@CB

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CB's picture

@entrepreneur

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magiamma's picture

@CB
Thanks I think. Wtf are they thinking. So many ways they fail.

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Daenerys's picture

Afternoon/evening all. We're doing ok here; hubby's college classes have been cancelled for next week. Not sure how this will affect things as he's scheduled to graduate May 8.

I have an event on the 28th I've been making cupcake and cookie samples for; I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it ends up getting cancelled as well. (They way my luck goes, it probably will be.) The coordinator said they were expecting 1000 guests. Last I heard there aren't any known cases in the county, but we'll wait and see I guess.

My dad is in the hospital, for unrelated issues; congestive heart failure, pneumonia and UTI. It's not looking good. And they are not letting people visit now.
Also my great-uncle passed away the other day, age 99; his funeral is Monday.

We live with my 73-year old mother. So far no one has any symptoms and we are self-isolating as much as we can. I have a few weeks' worth of insulin; pisses me off that they'll only give me two pens at a time now instead of a whole box, but what can you do? Go to Walmart and buy a bottle of R for $25, and a box of Lantus out-of-pocket while we don't have any income, or gamble on being able to get my two pens at a time as normal with no copay. Fuck.

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This shit is bananas.

magiamma's picture

@Daenerys
Wow. So much on your shoulders. I get that the don’t want visitors but that must be so hard. I hope your order comes through for the cupcakes. Your work is beautiful.

Thanks for checking in. Be safe and take good care of everyone.

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magiamma's picture

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-response-specialre...

Italy started out testing widely, then narrowed the focus so that now, the authorities don’t have to process hundreds of thousands of tests. But there’s a trade-off: They can’t see what’s coming and are trying to curb the movements of the country’s entire population of 60 million people to contain the disease. Even Pope Francis, who has a cold and delivered his Sunday blessing over the internet from inside the Vatican, said he felt “caged in the library.”

Thousands of miles away in South Korea, authorities have a different response to a similar-sized outbreak. They are testing hundreds of thousands of people for infections and tracking potential carriers like detectives, using cell phone and satellite technology.

Both countries saw their first cases of the disease called COVID-19 in late January. South Korea has since reported 67 deaths out of nearly 8,000 confirmed cases, after testing more than 222,000 people. In contrast, Italy has had 1,016 deaths and identified more than 15,000 cases after carrying out more than 73,000 tests on an unspecified number of people.

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@magiamma @magiamma
South Korea: 67 deaths/8000 cases x 100 = 0.84% death "rate"
Italy: 1016 deaths/15000 cases x 100 = 6.7%

Quite a difference (8x). Very important note: No adjustment for how good the tests are between the two countries, and no adjustment for population demographics, just straight populations. Covid-19 seems to affect the elderly more, and I believe that Italy has a more aged demographic.

The epidemiological picture will be clearer in a week or two....

And an edit to add: thanks Maggi, I always get a little extra thrill when I see your "Hot Air" on my reading options, and say to myself, "Oh yeah, it's Thursday, cool!" Thanks for all you do.

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magiamma's picture

@peachcreek
Thanks for those calculations. Really sobering. Thanks so much for reading. Your comment made me smile. Glad we are all here together. Funny that. Who would have thought. Just thought I found a place to help push the Climate Crisis to the fore and found a community. Heh. Be well and take good care...

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smiley7's picture

yesterday was one of those can't deal days, not communicable when that happens.

Did learn son and DIW adopted a young hound of about three years, but, sadly, when taking it home, the poor stressed doggie became very aggressive around other people and dogs. She's a black and tan mutt and if abused or trained, they can be fighters. Kind of thing Grandma would have sensed immediately; they thought her behavior in the pound was her being shy.

They are taking this day-by-day, having already fallen in love with her. Hope this resolves and the baby calms down. She needs love and is in the best hands i know of as my DIL loves dogs more than people.

Looking forward to Sanders educating a few million people on Sunday, provided they are curious, of course.

Got to drive about four hours today, a quick round-trip, on an errand, yuck.

Hoping you've rain a plenty out your way, we've more than our fair share today and for the coming days.

Maholo

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magiamma's picture

@smiley7 @smiley7
hi de ho

We finally got some rain. So many beings are happy. Green-leafed ones, four legged, winged, all.

Perseverance furthers with dog child, as I am sure you know. Takes a lot of love and a lot of time. But it can be done most of the time. My guy, Charlie the cat, named Harley by the motorcycle gang that gave him to the pound (renamed by me, he thinks maybe I can't pronounce his name right) was of good spirit but could not be touched without wanting to scratch and bite for a very long time. Took a year or so but slowly he let me touch the top of his head and now he's just a lump of love. How is it that we can love critters so much? And they love us back. The best miracle ever.

Sending you good cheer and hoping your drive passes without stress. Bernie is really changing the dialogue. But no way can we stop now having gotten this far. No fucking way.

Have the best day you can, be well, and be safe...

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQtgQKaUzss]

edit to add
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJhf4zK_RKA]

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