Hillary might be in real trouble
[Update] It's getting real for Hillary.
For months, the U.S. State Department has stood behind its former boss Hillary Clinton as she has repeatedly said she did not send or receive classified information on her unsecured, private email account, a practice the government forbids.While the department is now stamping a few dozen of the publicly released emails as "Classified," it stresses this is not evidence of rule-breaking. Those stamps are new, it says, and do not mean the information was classified when Clinton, the Democratic frontrunner in the 2016 presidential election, first sent or received it.
But the details included in those "Classified" stamps — which include a string of dates, letters and numbers describing the nature of the classification — appear to undermine this account, a Reuters examination of the emails and the relevant regulations has found.
The new stamps indicate that some of Clinton's emails from her time as the nation's most senior diplomat are filled with a type of information the U.S. government and the department's own regulations automatically deems classified from the get-go — regardless of whether it is already marked that way or not.
In the small fraction of emails made public so far, Reuters has found at least 30 email threads from 2009, representing scores of individual emails, that include what the State Department's own "Classified" stamps now identify as so-called 'foreign government information.' The U.S. government defines this as any information, written or spoken, provided in confidence to U.S. officials by their foreign counterparts.
[/update]
I'll keep this short.
A federal judge on Thursday said that Hillary Rodham Clinton did not comply with government policies in her exclusive use of a personal email account while she was secretary of state, challenging her longstanding position that she abided by the rules.
At a hearing for a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against the State Department, the judge, Emmet G. Sullivan of Federal District Court for the District of Columbia, said that “we wouldn’t be here today if the employee had followed government policy.”
Judge Sullivan also opened the door for the F.B.I., which is investigating whether there was classified information on Mrs. Clinton’s account, to expand its inquiry to pursue emails that she may have deleted.
Law Enforcement is investigating
U.S. law enforcement officials are investigating how classified material found its way into messages that members of Hillary Clinton’s State Department staff sent to her private e-mail address, according to a U.S. official with knowledge of the inquiry...
This transfer of classified information onto a server not approved to handle sensitive material is a focus of the investigation and could form the basis for a criminal probe to determine just how much classified material was sent - and who prepared and sent it....
“There’s a responsibility to safeguard classified information,” Michael Hayden, former director of the National Security Agency and CIA, said in a phone interview. Failing to protect such data “could get to a level of negligence that criminal penalties would kick in.”
The probe comes after the inspector general for U.S. intelligence agencies determined that four e-mails on Clinton’s server contained classified information at the time they were sent.
Personally I think the email issues aren't all that important, but her campaign was floundering even before this. This is becoming a real scandal, not a fake one. Even if nothing illegal is turned up, this could easily hang over Hillary's campaign for many months.
And if this turns into criminal charges, even if Hillary is ultimately found innocent, then her campaign would probably be over.
But Hillary is ahead, so how can she be floundering? This is how.
Scroll all the way down to question #46, which asks, "Would you say that Hillary Clinton is honest and trustworthy or not?"Thirty-two percent of respondents in Florida and Pennsylvania said she was; 34 percent of Ohioans said so. Just in case that's too much math for you: Only one in three voters in the three largest swing states in the country think that the overwhelming favorite for the Democratic nomination is honest and trustworthy.
But wait, you say! Context matters. I bet those same voters trust the Republican frontrunners even less!
Except, again, no.
The only Republican candidate with honest/trustworthy numbers like Clinton is Donald Trump. And, Trump's numbers are still not as bad as Clinton's. His lowest score on the honest/trustworthy measure is in Ohio where just 37 percent of voters say those words describe him.
When The Donald is considered more trustworthy than you, your campaign has a serious problem.
[Update] Hillary's legal defense has holes
Hillary Clinton’s campaign this week stepped up its defense of the Democratic front-runner’s use of a private email server while serving as secretary of state, arguing on Wednesday that Clinton, in the worst-case scenario, was simply a “passive recipient of unwitting information that subsequently became deemed as classified.”But those with deep expertise in the classification system say it’s not so simple.
While emphasizing that Clinton’s defense cannot be judged until the content of the messages are fully analyzed, fellow diplomats and other specialists said on Thursday that if any emails were blatantly of a sensitive nature, she could have been expected to flag it.
“She might have had some responsibility to blow the whistle,” said former Ambassador Thomas Pickering, who served under the former secretary of state and oversaw a department review of the deadly attack in 2012 on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, a subject of some of the most scrutinized of Clinton’s emails.
“The recipient may have an induced kind of responsibility,” Pickering added, “if they see something that appears to be a serious breach of security.”
It is a view shared by J. William Leonard, who between 2002 and 2008 was director of the Information Security Oversight Office, which oversees the government classification system.
He pointed out that all government officials given a security clearance are required to sign a nondisclosure agreement, which states they are responsible if secrets leak – whether the information was “marked or not.”
What's more, Hillary had a history of email security breaches.
Despite a hack two years ago that publicly exposed Hillary Clinton’s emails, the State Department took no action to shore up the security of the former secretary of state’s private computer server.
Comments
that woman
wants to be president so badly she'd campaign even if standing on the scaffold.
Rick Perry is under indictment, on a charge punishable by five to 99 years in prison, yet he's still running for president. In an ideal world, he would receive the Republican nomination, and Clinton II the Democratic. Then both would be put in the pokey. And proceed to campaign from there. I don't know that there is any law preventing a person from serving as president while in the hoosegow. I do know that Earl Long continued to run the state of Louisiana as governor while locked away in a mental institution.
eugene v. debs ran for president while in prison...
and received nearly a million votes, about 6% of the total vote, if i recall correctly. it seems like an interesting question as to whether he could become president and then pardon himself.
as of today I plan on voting for him in 2016
he was in prison because he was anti-war.
I used to like Woodrow Wilson but no longer!
wilson gets far better press than he deserves...
his destruction of the first amendment alone makes him worthy of a whole room in the hall of shame.
I grew up in New Jersey
there was a lot of pro-Wilson bias there
Didn't he hold a Klan rally
at the White House?
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
I fully agree, but . . .
She takes an unusual approach to seeking office if that really is her goal.
Rather than holding public meetings and injecting issues she is comfortable with into the public forum, she hid and did a "listening tour."
Excuse me. A listening tour? At this stage of her political life? With hand picked supporters and fans?
Just like last time, she tests the political winds before coming up with a position. Even then, she hems and haws in the worst possible way, and in such a lame and obvious manner, that even uninterested voters are getting frustrated with her. A real leader rarely polls an issue before making a decision.
She is simply a pisspoor candidate. She hates doing it, and I still think she is shocked about the Bern. First she was surprised that anyone would dare get between her and what she feels is rightfully hers. Second, she cannot grasp that real people are impressed by the Bern to her detriment.
" What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority. "
A hearty 'welcome' to Agnostic! And to dancingrabbit! BTW,
I'm one of the resident 'rabbit lovers' here!
Seriously, I appreciate this diary on FSC's mishandling of classified material. I figure that she will cop a plea [bargain] if charges are filed against her--like Petraeus. But that would be better than nothing.
As an aside, the handling, or mishandling of classified material is a relatively serious matter. When I had a security clearance [first obtained at a MIC-contracted private firm, before going federal service], I saw couriers delivering material with attaches that were securely attached to their belts, or midsections, so that no one could jump them, and make off with the attache.
IOW, you couldn't easily make a courier hand over the classified material--you'd have to either have a hacksaw, or maybe a gun to shot the heavy chain attached to the case.
My point being that the military, the federal government, and even MIC-contracted private sector firms don't usually take kindly to sloppy handling of their classified material--partly because of the potential penalties that doing so can carry.
Also, from listening to/watching the State Department Briefings, the White House Daily Press Briefings with Press Spokesperson Josh Earnest, and occasionally a C-Span security expert, it appears that this investigation has little or nothing to do with Trey Gowdy and the Benghazi hearings, except maybe on the periphery.
(Aside from in the minds of some right wingers, or the Republican Base, that is. And, of course, that is encouraged by the Republican PtB, since it can serve as an effective fund-raising ploy/tactic.)
Part of the reason that this issue came to light was because of the Benghazi hearings.
But, more importantly, it was because of the numerous FOIA requests, and suit, filed by the left-leaning group "Friends Of The Earth."
Bottom line--the real issue is whether or not FSC put classified material(s) at risk.
If she did, IMHO, she should be treated like anyone else.
Mollie
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
This, too, shall pass
I feel certain that it is temporary Blue Plate Special. I expect many more.
Consider: None of the "classified" material was generated by Hillary. Rather, it was sent to her. And, it is likely that it was sent long before anyone became aware that it "must be disappeared."
I would wager that everything in question on her server is related to Chris Stevens' covert US gun-running adventures in Benghazi — after the heinous destruction of that nation as a result of Clinton's Neocon lobbying to do so. Watch and see if I'm not right about this.
It was not until a year later that the US covert war crimes against Libya — and the US deliberate assassination of Muamar Gaddafi due to his attempt to break the Petrodollar — would even come to light. And that only happened during the US attempt to smuggle weapons to al Qaeda through Turkey to Syria via Benghazi (in order to cause the overthrow of Assad so that Qatar could run a pipeline through Syria, against Assad's objections, to supply the EU). When that was accidentally exposed (during a Republican Benghazi hearing), all documents related to the covert Libyan war crimes by the US, went dark.
Thus, the belated examination of Hillary's emails. However, should the US expose those emails, the asinine US clusterfuck against Libya would be exposed for all the world to see. That's just not going to happen.
So, like Cheney and Bush-the-Lesser and "Colon Bowel" (ht/hecate), Hillary's use of a private server for her war-crimes email will be soon forgotten.
USA Number One.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
The Show must go on.
It's a multi-billion dollar production. Money talks, bullshit walks.
As sure as the Earth orbits the Sun
…Hillary will be on the 2016 ballot for the Democrat's enjoyment.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I wouldn't go that far
She's such a flawed candidate that her campaign could implode.
That being said, if she manages to keep from imploding, she has an enormous war chest to spend for attacks on Sanders that we haven't seen yet.
Sanders will not fail through attacks.
He came with an expiration date.
It's a known known that the Democratic Party and its Overlords will not have a Socialist on its Presidential ticket. If not Hillary, Biden/Castro is the next in line.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
If this wasn't all such a farce
it would be worrisome. For President of the United States of America, this is what we get. A bunch of fucking crazy
Republicans, an even crazier billionaire who doesn't know shit, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. No offense to the
Sanders supporters but overall, considering the history, stature, and illusion of this country, that selection exactly
matches the overall current state of affairs.
Those who give a shit about Democrat overloards
underwrite a very poor destiny, history being the guide.
Time to break the glass they drink from.
The other day
…President Obama ordered that a dying prisoner (who was never charged with a crime) be released from Guantanamo so he could die at home. He weighs just 75 pounds. I could carry him home.
The military told Obama to shut the fuck up.
Who can alter America's destiny?
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
me
You and Lawrence Lessig
…and the Human Right of Self Determination (via referendum).
-- A Voice Of Hope And Reason In US Politics
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
If you were Obama and you gave an order
and the military told you to STFU, what would you do? So ok and walk away? I don't believe that for a minute. I think you and I would use that bully pulpit for all it is worth. The blame lies with Obama and all the people like him who look the other way because their success is more important than any success.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
How is that possible? Do you have a link? I'd like to read
about that. Seems to me that's mutiny. A member of the military can't say no to the Commander in Chief. Of course, knowing Obama, it might well have been more of a recommendation than a command.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Hi elenacarlena.
Here you go:
Guardian — The military ignores Obama's order to release Shaker Aamer from Guantánamo
Defense One — Why Can’t Obama Get His Defense Secretary To Release This Guantanamo Prisoner?
I'm glad you picked up on this. It's exhausting to explain to Americans that they no longer have civilian control over the military. They haven't for decades.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
And it's literally a 'war chest'
As SoS she did her part to deliver the geopolitical wars all dressed up like 'diplomacy'. Can't think of a more undiplomatic person in this whole administration. Well there is Susan Rice but something tells me she was thick as thieves with Hillary. Read the Reuters article and I sure would like to get a gander at these personal e-mails. Is the Clinton's Foundation skulduggery considered personal? Who in the hell is Sidney Blumenthal? Oh I googled the dude. He's a courtier from the Clinton regime that Rahm refused to let Hillary hire, due to the primary. Internecine rifts and power plays inside the Party's corrupt nasty inner circle. This part of Wiki's bio caught my lying eyes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Blumenthal
If they crown her will Blumenthal be our next Secretary of State or maybe the next Ambassador to the UN?
Speaking of Ambassador's Susan Rice? Really? I wonder how many of the e-mails feature the African genocide enabler.... This woman is bad news and a Clintonite from way back. This seems to be like internecine gang warfare between the different colors that make up the current Democratic inner circle. They all need to go and they are all both neocons and neoliberals of the worst order. None of their backs are worth supporting unless you think that democracy is picking the blue gang over the red. And even then they just squabble over the degrees of their evil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rice
So pardon me for not wanting to protect Clinton's back. The only back I want to see is is the backside of this whole lot of Democratic genocidal war criminals and their sponsors the savvy businessmen who rule the world. Good God how is this about the legality of her bathroom private server and not about what under the guise of diplomacy this SoS has implemented with their neocon spooky killing sprees globally. Seriously people read about what this Democratic global crime family has done. Not that any of the other Democrat's in power are any better but still lifting up up the stones and seeing what crawls out gives me the willies. I vote for none of the above. I withdraw my consent for this atrocious by-partisan transnational Empire.
This seems to be like internecine gang warfare between the different political factions that make up the current Democratic inner circle. They all need to go and they are all both neocons and neoliberals of the worst order. None of their backs are worth supporting unless you think that democracy is picking the blue gang over the red. And even then they are complicit in the endless war against humanity and the planet.
Let's have a revolution and get rid of these criminals who run our cities, state's, country, the world and the Democratic party. I'm voting for Bernie just because I'm not buying this farce of democracy or their freaking NWO that says this mad wicked, cruel world is all you can get. Get these chest thumping monkey's and their savvy business men off the stage. Come on people look at what is going down here and throughout the world and stop enabling it.
From here forward...
…until further notice, your comment will serve as my current manifesto.
Thank you.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
It's like going after Al Capone for tax evasion.
Relative to the Libya war, it wasn't a civil war just like what's happening in Syria isn't and hasn't been a civil war. Both
wars are proxy wars led by the U.S. using their favorite terrorists, mercenaries, and others to do the dirty work of
destroying the countries so they can take out Gaddafi and Assad and achieve their other geopolitical goals regarding oil and
oil pipelines, etc.
Rice and Clinton lied their asses off to get that UN No Fly Zone approval which turned into a 7 month bombing campaign of
the entire country and it's people and infrastructure. Clearly an illegal war just as Iraq was an illegal war based on the lies
alone making Clinton and Rice, not to mention Obama, war criminals.
Here's a good book that discusses the lies and what the wars are for.
https://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/review-slouching-sirte-natos-war-libya-a...
that's
all well and good, but what about these people, who claim the Sun actually orbits the Earth? They have math and logic and science and shit and everything. ; )
Heh. That's the way
…I wrote it the first time. Had to edit.
But come to think of it, what difference does it make, really? Ancient almanacs worked just fine without getting all counter-intuitive about who orbits whom.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
i believe
everything orbits around cats, myself.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0VJ9vUYH2M]
RE: gjohnsit's Update
…whad' I tell ya?
Benghazzzzzi is back!
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Not hard to figure out
really despite the insane RWNJ who are investigating Benghazi for upside down reasons. Don't these people read anything besides the FP and seem to watch and listen to the same sources that the partisan Republican pig ignorant upside down diehard's do. What's really sad about this Breitbart debunking of Shun King is that one of the first things that totally freaked me out about Obama was that he went along with the bogus Breihtbart sting, scam and defunded Acorn. He could have vetoed this racist farce of legislation but he didn't. That's when I knew for sure that this Dem. administration was going to be a lot worse then I had imagined.
Just because Hillary is a woman or Obama's black does not mean they are not going to implement and push racist sexist policy and a global agenda that denies and works against all human and civil rights. The Breitbart site is disgusting and it's a sign of the times that anything they say gets traction in the establishment corporate media or in the political arena. I do not support Shaun King or Hillary. Their race, gender or backstory have nothing to do with my lack of support. In a way it's a logical progression of identity politics, if all you care about is the race, gender or cultural background of the persona your supporting then it limits your politics to the same level as low information, fanatics on the R side. More and more they resemble the tea baggers they so fear and loath.
Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.
And I have never-ending disgust for those bloody Neocon harpies — Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, and Samantha Power — who bamboozled Obama into destroying the sovereign nation of Libya and murdering or displacing millions upon millions of citizens.
PS: I delight in all your comments.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
So do I
Shaz channels so much of what is in my mind but often I cannot find the words to convey it.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
She is extremely well informed.
A very rare gift on a blog, these days
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Ditto Ukraine / Victoria Nuland (married to neocon Robert Kagan)
Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan
you can say that again, I was so
shocked back then when I first realized what Samantha Power really talks about. It's a long time ago.
I believe the word for this is "Quisling"....
Oops! Did I go Godwin there? I'm sooooooo sorry!
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
I don't see the mustache, so I think you are good /s
Correct. She did the PTB biding here
So the emails are a non issue for me.
However, if current trends continue, Bernie will have a lead over Hillary in National polling in about 10 weeks. Hillary knows this and as of yet has done zero to hold of Bernies apparently inevitable victory. So she will have to make a move, or she goes down early. Expect it.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
whatever happened to TomP?
was reading this over at you know where. How could you?!? How could you write something so vile like these facts?
As chronicled here too many times, I GBCW'd but never got banned so I'm thinking I should go uprate your comment in the Shaun King diary and see what happens. That was a pretty innocuous thing you said, of course. If you'd added {{{{hugs}}}}} that would have confused 'em!
How could I be so mean?
The hate is flying fast and furious. It's full-on attack-the-messenger time.
How dare I bring up inconvenient facts.
It's sh*t like this that makes me wonder why I bother.
As for the comment in question, yeh, it didn't need to be said. But at the same time, it wasn't an actual insult in any way or shape either. It wasn't even about the diarist. And many of the outraged responses also asked, "what does this mean?"
It was just a comment about the pathetic state of DKos these days.
You made a statement
which of its own accord does not meet the criteria for HR'ing, but hurt feelings seem to go a long way at some places. It cost you one full bar of mojo, for what it is worth. One person's comment really bothered me and I responded to him. They are trying to drag this crap into your diary which is very good btw.
On the substance of the diary, there is one thing that really bothers me as much as anything else. And that is, why does a top govt official with top security clearance need or, even more, is allowed to do govt. business on an unsecured private server? That is the big picture question.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
That has me thinking
When did we start living in a world where you didn't have to own your own feelings? Who declared that we should strive not to offend one another? I don't remember voting on that.
My personal opinion is that a world without offense is a boring ass world that I don't want to live in.
As for my comment that got so many HR's, it can't be construed to be offensive in any way. So therefore the crime was that some people got upset, so I was asked to apologize. Well, some people got upset about the Hillary diary, so that means I should apologize about positing that too.
In fact, remarking on any events that might upset someone should be avoided by this logic.
How are liberals different from conservatives who want to censor art that offends them?
Yeh, I don't even know what that means. Never did.
Mojo is no big deal
The problem is that if anyone uprates that HR'd comment, they can be put in time out. I know I got a warning once for uprating (along with seven other people) a comment that got only two HR's. When I asked about it, elfling told me they view uprates as being worse than HR's. I personally do not like the HR system at all, especially when there are off site groups that organize to bombard certain diarists with HRs. I think what happened to you was HR abuse, but if I were you, just keep writing and don't worry about it. I think several of us were upset enough about people bringing over their gripes into the Hillary diary and that got handled without an all out pie fight. The point got made.
If personal insults ensue, I am sure there will be people to ensure that they are dealt with properly. I think you handled them very well in the Hillary diary. But then you already knew that.
As for hurt feelings, it seems that has gotten worse with the focus upon identity politics. There is a lot of stuff that seems to be able to be HR'd because it might offend or hurt someone's feelings.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Who is this elfling and
how did she get the job as moderator? It's obvious that she isn't up to the job, based on your experiences, my observations of the double standards there, and others' similar observations. There was a time when things were handled more evenly - or maybe I imagined that (?).
Who are these people who think that their hurt fees fees matter more than facts, and why are they given so much power on Kos? And people used to get called out if they posted unfactual comments, but now, it's a big free for all.
I was thinking of asking to be unbanned, because as caustic as I can be, I don't believe I've been as insulting as a number of diarists and posters there, including bobswern, who I like, have been. I mean, a STFU diary is acceptable? And Kos goes on a f,f,f,f, rampage recently? What happened to Kos? He seemed to be even handed at one time.
dfarrah
Well you wandered
in to the fatal trap by saying Colorado is the Shitz needed a good slap. I understood what you meant she did get freaked out by the diary involved title but the keepers of the PC decided you were advocating violence against women. I personally did not like the reference to slapping, as a women who has been threatened with and actually been slapped on occasion. Kos has never been even handed and elfing is just another kos minion that goes along with the nasty pov that has no intention of moderating the out of hand mob mentality that rules the site.
I think that sums it up (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
well, sure all that's true....
but shiz has been threatened quite literally in the past and none of the admin there gave one shit. I and others sent in the comment, bitched and moaned, and not a thing was done. So...yeah.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
Sticky this is
I'm no PC purist but slapping weird's me out. Shiz or any woman should not be slapped 'virtually' around for speaking their opinion on any issue or political stance. You can disagree with Shiz's reaction but surely slapping a person especially a woman is no answer to your disagreement. I'm often told I'm an hysterical woman and trouble. So what? Does that mean I should be slapped about cause I need to get a grip? Man I would be slap happy if that were the criterion for getting riled up at our current state of politics.
Not at all. I agree with you 100%.
I just find it odd when and/or if they sanction people there for their behavior or comments towards women.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
Shiz is good people too.
She is also a member here although she is not actively posting.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Shiz's comment thread was linked
in BKos by deo as an example of racism on the site. It was just a little hint from her to foment trouble on the site.
Don't have a link - it might have been their last round-up for the week.
To thine own self be true.
Shiz's comment thread was linked
in BKos by deo as an example of racism on the site. It was just a little hint from her to foment trouble on the site.
Don't have a link - it might have been their last round-up for the week.
To thine own self be true.
That is ugly
Just ugly. Why am I not surprised?
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Now they are accusing
Shiz of all people of racism??? She has been mostly unqualified in her support [I say mostly because I haven't read all of her comments].
Wow. They turned on their own sooner than I thought they would.
dfarrah
She made a faux pas, 4 years ago or so
and she apologized repeatedly. It was a politically incorrect slip, don't even remember what it was. They branded her.
To thine own self be true.
Oh, I thought this was recent.
Darn, now I can't brag about my predictive ability.
dfarrah
I could imagine she is conflicted and therefore
stays silent here. She was very nice to me and I like her comments, as they are refreshingly honest.
Well, I didn't write that
Shiz 'needed a good slap.'
A lot of people are in pain for various reasons. You have a pain point about slapping, and I'm sorry about your experiences. I have a pain point about bullying.
It was too incongruous to me, to read her posts about how upset she was over a mere diary that she need not even read, knowing that she and many other posters fully supported the bullying behavior directed at Bernie. So I attacked, and my comment was definitely overdoing the hostility.
There is really too much to unpack with my comment, the responders, and similar numerous exchanges on Kos, to address in one comment here. There is insensitivity, lack of knowledge of people's pain points, lack of reading comprehension, jumping to conclusions, and bias. No way to fix all of that tonight!!!
We shall soldier on despite some of the pain. 
dfarrah
You were in Swern's diary.
Again, I did not take your comment "literally". I saw it as intending to call Shiz hysterical, not to threaten her with violence. You were in Swern's diary supporting it and him. Some even said you'd been pissing them off for awhile. Unless my understanding of your comment is wrong, you just said the wrong thing at the wrong time in the wrong place.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
It's why I'm in NR and also why I haven't bothered to
appeal to get out (despite some advice given to me here to do so). I'm sick of putting up with that shitpile that passes itself off as "moderation" over there.
I'll throw in a comment every once in a while, but life over there seems a whole lot simpler and less aggravating when all I can do tip-wise is rec the diary.
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
the HR system and the Rec system,
not being anonymously like it is here, and the follow-up automatic NR, TO and bans are the downfall of the dailykos site. I have huge personal conflicts with that site because of it.
I think one can't ask a person to write an apology diary, when the person doesn't do it on its own volition. And I do believe that people are pressured to write them in some cases, because they don't want to otherwise lose fine writers. I could name one apology diary that really felt to me like a punch in the stomach. Let's that be it, because of course we are read here in the same manner by the same people, who would disagree with us over there, if we were to speak our mind.
I think it's because there is no
freedom of expression. There are roving gangs who shut down debate and use all the ratings and moderation to their advantage. In the GMO diary, (a real hot button issue everywhere), one commenter said to the other: what kept you? oh there was another diary on "Hilary is pro-GMO" so the crew got here late. She also said "there was blood in the water" in that other diary, meaning a crew attack. It's a good analogy: sharks, except I like sharks.
To thine own self be true.
Hey
I got 59 HRs and one week in the corner for a sarcastic remark against Hillary and her supporters that they turned into a racist comment by ignoring the sarcasm. When I discussed it with elfling, she said it was my responsibility as the sender to communicate clearly. So ok.
Did you see Kos' rant today? I went to Breitbart for a first hand read. It isn't anywhere close to over.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I haven't been back to DKos today
It started making me upset last night so I decided to not go back until I'm prepared to handle the aggravation.
I'm guessing that Markos is ranting about the Hillary scandals. Since he's so invested in the Hillary campaign that doesn't surprise me.
Nope, kos is ranting
about the brouhaha involving whether or not Shaun King is really black. That started with right wing sites claiming SK was not really black. Now, I am not sure why his race or combination thereof should be anyone's business. Then the attack migrated over to CNN with gold old Don Lemon leading the charge. Then the story hit the NY Times and half of dkos got their panties in a wad leading to fifty diaries posted supporting Shaun King.
Here is my personal take on it. No one should have his or her heritage questioned and then asked to prove who they are. So kos is right on that. However, we know that kos being kos will probably take it out on some of us who are not rah rahing that Shaun is the best FP'er since sliced bread. I have my reasons for not liking him in that I believe he bends the facts in his stories at times. I noticed that early on. But my lack of support is for the writer. As I said no one should have his name and his heritage dragged through the mud like that.
That's my $.02 worth.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
That's right.
Nobody should have their heritage questioned or be asked to prove their identity...unless it's one of their future front pagers doing it--look-up rainbowgirl. They were judge, jury and executioner there, but that was cool, they didn't like her. Or background, that really is out of bounds, see Badabing. Those people are huge hypocrites, not to be taken seriously. I don't care about Shuan's heritage one whit, I care about his shoddy journalistic ethics and possible financial shenanigans wrt to his various fundraising efforts. I think there's another shoe possibly going to drop on that one, and if there's any there there, I hope kos looks good in egg.
A large contingent has had a bee in their bonnet over gjohnsit for some time now. I popped over to look at his hr'd comment. I see they even brought up what a bad bad man he is over his posts during the yesallwomen*** thing last year. Hell, I got raked over for even tipping some of his comments then.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
Our gjohnsit does not suffer fools
which is exactly why he was one of the very first people I followed.
There have been times when we do not agree, but at least on my end, my respect is always there. Badabing was another favorite of mine and sadly, they destroyed her. There is a pack mentality over there that is often ugly. That is why I tend to avoid community diaries other than the nature ones.
Now I am going to have to decide if I am going to attend the big pow wow for dkos Asheville on Sept. 26. The great Markos is going to be there along with Meteor Blades and I believe McJoan and Deo. There are some good people at dkos Asheville and our own smiley may even come...I am hoping so.
The only time I was able to go smiley came late so we did not talk but he is in our group picture.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Pack mentality...
yes, there always has been. I compare that site to Omelas, I finally walked away.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
They are breaking all those rules
about bringing other conflicts or comments into diaries. That doesn't matter, they claim that the only rule is DBAD and that's their decision. Anyone who doesn't agree with them is "a dick."
To thine own self be true.
Unless you use it fraudlently to get a scholarship.
Elizabeth Warren was accused of falsely claiming to be part native American in order to get a scholarship. The allegation is Shaun did the same thing to get a minority scholarship from Oprah. Breitbart's front page also claims to have financial dirt on some charity that belonged to Shaun that they intend to print. Breitbart isn't done. God politics is a dirty business.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
don't care about Shaun King's ethnicity but...
because he posts dishonest diaries (and never answers for them) I would not be shocked if he's less than honest about other stuff. Oh boo hoo! (he writes) this is painful! Well blank you, buddy. Now go and apologize for your terrible edits!
Bingo!
Race or ethnicity should not be an issue. Period. But honesty in his writing is another thing for me. The other stuff I do not know so I cannot comment one way or another. Eventually the truth does come out.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
The college spokesperson says
scholarships are not awarded according to race.
To thine own self be true.
Oprah
I read it was a scholarship from Oprah - not the college.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
and he didn't ask for that one, Oprah "donated" it
to him. Like she is a benign corporatist benevolent media exploiter and looks for "camera savvy and other people", who are suitable for a good story for her to tell on TV. At least that's how it looks to me.
And I recall that
posters were knocking Elizabeth about her situation. Am I recalling correctly? Is this yet another example of double standards?
dfarrah
Dkos is not fair or consistent.
It has always had roving gangs, kangaroo courts, that operate with impunity. This current bunch is particularly obnoxious and vicious.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I missed the signing
up for a gang part!!
How dense am I?
dfarrah
I saw that
incredible reaction to your innocuous comment. The worst I could say about your comment was that it was "off topic." - sort of a pun.
The same names show up over and over whenever there is a conflict. Those are the people who run the show now, trading insults and hr's for disagreement.
To thine own self be true.
I go there for the laughs
I can't help it, I always think to myself "let's see what those !#$%&^%& are saying."
Ha ha ha!
Now you confess?
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I finally went back over there
It turns out that it didn't get significantly worse than when I turned it off last night.
It's still disturbing how far from reality GOS has drifted. It reminds me of Republicans circa 2007.
The issue has become
reality and facts versus the latest outrage de jour.
I am not opposed to exposing things in our system which are grossly unfair and discriminatory. However, outrage is often manufactured to beat would be alllies into submission.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I got a two week TO
and at least 60 hr's because I'm a racist and I hate America on top of being a racist sexist Dr. Commie Rat. I disagreed with DO on her infamous GTFO dairy. I said our military and 'foreign policy' were inherently racist. I also said that this tied into economic disparity as many black people joined the military as a way out of poverty in a society that offered no other options. Bejeezuz the flying monkeys went nuts. I've been there for 9 years and gotten numerous warnings and lost my 'privileges' as a TU several times. It's always been for uprates or comments that were not HR worthy. Kind of fun now that I don't give a shit to stand on the sideline and watch the Loyalist Dems. carry on. Today they used the Condi Rice, Cheney did it as an argument that HRC did nothing wrong . Then there is the Benghazi's a RWNJ attack. That might be but it would be interesting to hear what Hillary and Sidney Blumenthal and her other fellow war criminals were cooking up as far as Libya and the debacle in the ME goes. Same with the Ukraine. When the only argument for voting Democratic is that otherwise a RWNJ will be president and it's your fault for not supporting Margret Thacher Jr. or Debbie 'what kill list' I'd say the Dems. deserve to lose. You just hate Hillary! lol. Going to go find kos's rant. See you all later got to get some real life work done today.
This point I can't get over either
How can you claim the moral high-ground about racism and still not oppose a global racist war? How can you oppose the government shooting brown-skinned people, but hold your outrage within the borders of the country?
It's such rank hypocrisy.
Shifting the debate to economic disparity
really angers some people. They want the issue of racism to be debated in some kind of a vacuum.
When my son was going to junior college in Quebec, he gravitated towards the black students. Why? because they were poor too. The black and white students had solidarity because they were both living in poverty. They helped each other out. I welcomed them to my place for their study groups.
When I worked in a major hospital, I gravitated towards the black workers, because we were at the bottom of the economic ladder in the hospital.
To thine own self be true.
The thing is,
I think that the AAs who object to economic discussions don't think that whites think of them when whites say 'economic disparity.' I think AAs are thinking that whites are only thinking about whites.
In my mind, we're talking about everyone, and this is surely true for other progressives.
I can't think of any other explanation for the AAs objections to discussions about economics.
dfarrah
Exactly
not to mention Native Americans are much more discriminated against. In Canada we have fewer black people and they seem to integrate quite well. My son was disappointed when he came to Victoria from Montreal. He asked, "Where are all the brothers?" There are lots more in Montreal where we used to live.
There are strict laws against discrimination here in jobs and housing. There was a regulation that Federal employers had to hire 2% people of colour including First Nations and I think it is still in place. 2% is not much, it should be equivalent to the % of POC in the population. When I began to work at Health Canada, in the 1990's an employee working beside me told me the government's intention was to replace everyone who left their position with a First Nations person. She was actually upset over that. I said, "we can't do enough for them to make up for the genocide." I wasn't too popular with her then, so I hung out with First Nations women in the office. Ah, I can still remember when one of them would visit me with big freshly caught salmon, all dressed. Those were the days.
I'm noticing more and more entertainment, movies, tv series are placing women and blacks, and especially black women in positions of authority in their stories. A nice change from the 20th century.
To thine own self be true.
Meteor Blades pointed that fact is true in the US
and it seems to get continually lost in the arguments over discrimination and racism.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Gaddafi was the rare Arab leader with good ties to black Africa
Rebels who engineered Gaddafi's overthrow created an atmosphere in Libya where it was open season on black Africans living and working in Libya under various bilateral agreements Gaddafi had set up.
Here are two articles about the situation from sources whose normal slant would be hostile to Gaddafi (This Is Africa is a business bi-monthly published by the U.K.'s Pearson / Financial Times.).
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-15698965
http://thisisafrica.me/how-bad-was-gaddafi/
Hi, I believe that many who are friends and allies
on dailykos with Dee's diaries and black kos, are not that familiar with racism outside the US and racism between ethnic groups that fall outside the "black, brown and white" scheme. They are right and knowledgable and all can walk the shoes about US slave history, its cultural and socio-economic and personal inequality and exploitative damages it has caused, including the history of the genocide of Native Americans, and they might be able to analyze US-Latin American and/or Carribean race and slave issues, but can't further outside of that. I think they are lost when it comes to racism, colonial and imperial wars in Europe and Africa and their current consequences outside the US.
When they do look over those limiting borders, they are indistinguishable from the regular American reactions, which are felt by outsiders as "racially insensitive" to say it mildly.
The problems are way more complex. You can have black dictators who fight against racist imperial or colonial exploitation and at the same time exploit the general population, who suffers the most under those imperial exploitative policies, as much and corrupted as any white capitalist's or imperialist's agenda would do. They deny to see or don't see any racism in any other peoples as the ones they know, it seems. There are also those who don't see or deny to see racism in any of the ideological corners. That might upset some socialists, but an ideology isn't a cure for racism, just a cure for social economic issues, the damage racism can do is diminished if socio-economic equality is realized. That's the reason why I will support a socialist-leaning candidate like Bernie Sanders, knowing that in the end you can't control any subverting measures to undermine political fights to protect against racism. Sanders I think knows the limits, and I hope and believe that he will not budge, standing by his current democratic-socialist agenda, knowing that racism is always there and can be used to undermine any political agenda. I think he has shown support for BLM that is convincing enough to be respected. There is little more he can do. Other than take it and not to be thrown of the hocker.
I will always dance on both weddings in that regard and try to have a hard look at may dancing partners and make my judgment from there.
Markos 'rant-fuck' diary makes him a dick, that most people love (heh, forgive me for that, but I think that's the feature of dicks./s.) Other people find it appalling. I am not in the dick and fuck business and I really would love to have a dick-fuck-rant-free environment.
To talk about global racist wars is one thing, but I would say you need to include all races. That is rarely done, especially not when one ideological corner claims to be less involved in racial wars than the other. Or at least one should acknowledge that global racial wars are multi-racial and mostly global-capitalist wars, though I am in for doubting that as well. But that last thing is just me.
Sigh, it's amazing how draining and dreadful it is to read through those diaries. I hadn't read them and just scanned through them today, and basically know round about what Shaun King's diaries are about. He is right to write them, I don't read them all, because they are all covering the same issues. I read less of the authors, who write several diaries sometimes a day. I rather read the EB linked articles from various sources.
Now, I take advice from my racially challenged son and just say "leave me alone, don't ask me for my identity, and if you are so impolite to ask it, expect my answer to be upfront and take the answer face value".
I have so had it with racial issues. I think we should ask Monsanto to do some research into genetically modify us people all into the same race. Bingo, all problems solved, heh. /s
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