Hey Democrats! Do you ever want to win again? (Updated)

I finally decided to write a valedictory diary over at TOP, after not participating there in over six months. I'm publishing it here first, and will let them know where to find the original. Warning: some links are to DailyKos diaries.

And this morning I added an update to the DK diary, as a response to the furor.

Update: So I’m out of the penalty box, and wanted to put in one last word. Thanks to all of you who read and responded to what I wrote. To those who clearly didn’t read or didn’t consider my points, thank you for illustrating my thesis. Too many Democratic party loyalists here seem determined to learn nothing from the election returns. Trying to turn the Electoral College is a fool’s errand. Citing the popular vote is pointless: Hillary lost the damn election, people. Blaming the Russians or James Comey or me for that loss is engaging in the most hopeless form of denial of the real problem: the Democratic party is at its weakest point in almost a century, thanks to the actions of its leadership over the last three decades. And to those here attacking me personally, or Jill Stein voters, or anybody who’s not already on board the Democratic party as you think it should be, congratulations. You are and remain the problem, and you stand in the way of the solution.

I’ve been missing from around these parts since our Dear Leader pronounced that free speech would no longer be tolerated in his joint. (Remind you of anyone?) The Brock-sponsored shills have come and gone, so I thought I’d come back to take a look around. Not a pretty sight. It appears that the Orthodox wing of the party, well represented here, seems determined to learn nothing from last month’s events. Instead it has doubled down on its delusions and its failed approach to politics, and is as hostile as ever to anyone disagreeing with them. Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are in charge, assuring that the Wall Street sponsors of the party will maintain their grip on control like Gollum clutching the Ring as he hurtles down to a sea of fire.

Newbies won’t know who I am. Ask around. I had been here since late 2004, and have been a consistent commenter and staunch advocate of the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. But now I’m an independent. I left the party after the Convention, disgusted at the cynicism and overreach of the Clinton campaign. Subsequent revelations from Wikileaks only confirm what I already knew. This is the first time in over 40 years, since I first registered to vote, that I am not a Democrat. But, as so many former Republicans — and a growing number of former Democrats — have said: I didn’t leave the party, the party left me. DLC controllers (starting with the Clintons), Wall Street greedheads, asshole manipulators like David Brock, and sanctimonious know-nothings have all played a part in my departure. I do not contemplate rejoining the Democratic party in the near future, and may never do so again.

I am not alone. From a recent high of 36% of the electorate in 2008, Democratic party share of the electorate has hovered around 26-28% in estimates during the general election. Independents far outnumber Republicans or Democrats, and it is not unreasonable to suspect that they could approach the number of Republicans and Democrats when Gallup gets around to its biennial count in January. The result in electoral failure for the Democratic party since the 2010 midterms is well known around here, and it mirrors the failure of formerly center-left parties in Europe as well. When I was a Democrat and writing around here, I warned against the temptation to blame scapegoats and avoid embracing the need for the party to change. I pointed out that the history of the Clintons’ corruptions was the story of the Democratic party in recent years, and argued for the need for a change. The party stubbornly resisted change or cleaning itself up. It embraced the status quo, and its comfortable Establishment identity. It told those demanding better to shut up and cheer, and fall in line. This site was a typical and reliable mouthpiece for the party establishment in these respects. I did not want to abide by the political fictions it embraced in recent months, so for the first time in over a decade I left.

If Democrats want to win again, they need to win me back. Far more importantly, they need to win millions of voters back, and embrace a lot more. What is the party doing wrong, and what can it do differently?

Stop taking voters for granted

[video:https://youtu.be/JDUjeR01wnU]

I was a vociferous Bernie backer during the primaries, seeing him as the last best chance for the Democratic party to remember its New Deal, working class identity. The Clinton campaign’s cynical, divisive, dishonest politicking during the primaries disgusted me, and Hillary Clinton’s ham-handed and outrageously insulting outreach to Republicans even during the primaries disqualified her for my vote. In November, I voted for Jill Stein for president.

Want to blame me for Donald Trump? Well, go fuck yourself. Hillary Clinton threw away my vote in the general election. She won my state handily without my vote, so I had nothing to do with her losing. In January of this year I warned the DailyKos community of what would happen if Hillary Clinton ran against Donald Trump:

The most important lesson the 2016 campaign teaches so far is that people are fed up with the status quo, and are no longer willing to listen to the establishment’s opinion shapers telling them the way things are supposed to be. They are increasingly believing their lying eyes…. People in general are increasingly unwilling to accept the arguments for the status quo, the preemptive capitulation to the power of money, the reality of oligarchy.

Both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders derive much of the power driving their candidacies from this rebellious mood. They speak different languages to different audiences, but the subtext of their appeal is similar in this respect. Throw the Bums Out is a much more potent argument this year than More of the Same. And people are increasingly wise to the game power plays, in which bums are thrown out to be replaced by more bums….

Hillary Clinton’s long record (the downside of “experience” is that it leaves a record) leaves her defenseless against the weapon of the corruption issue. And Republicans know it. Donald Trump has already fired a shot across her bow by mentioning her association with him. It is not unlikely that one of the reasons the Republican establishment has begun cozying up to the Donald is that they see a possibility he can beat Hillary. If they’re right, corruption will no doubt be the main feature of their general election campaign. Another endless round of accusations and scandals surrounding a Clinton, this time with a lot more evidence than was available to those pushing the Vince Foster conspiracy nonsense….

Indeed, “Crooked Hillary” was a constant refrain from Donald Trump on the campaign trail. Blame me for being a Cassandra if you wish, but I’m not the reason 68% of the electorate found Hillary Clinton dishonest and untrustworthy. Yes, yes, 30 years of right-wing attacks blah blah blah, but the point Clinton fans refuse to acknowledge is that Bill and Hillary Clinton’s own actions created that distrust. They were constantly engaged in dodgy and barely-legal (if that) stuff that invited Republican attacks. They created a target-rich environment for these attacks, and Hillary reaped what she sowed. So did all the rest of us, unfortunately.

Clintonian triangulation has become the meat and drink of modern Democratic party politics. The Clintons were all about slicing and dicing the electorate, trying to appeal to this group or that to try to cobble together a bare majority. The Democratic party has followed their lead. DailyKos is a hotbed of this stupidity. Every damn day you read people talking about PoC or women or the WWC or college-educated white people or whatnot. These groups are treated as the indivisible atoms of political tactics. The stereotyping and disregard for the individuality of voters, who have their own concerns and conflicts and histories and ideas, is lost in this triangulating calculus. People don’t fit neatly into little boxes. Nobody likes being treated as a stereotype, and that’s pretty much all today’s Democratic party does come campaign season. The results of this approach can be seen in Washington, in state capitols, and among dog-catchers nationwide.

Democratic politicians act as if they own the votes of “their base,” the contents of the little boxes they feel they’ve collected on their side. “Where else are they going to go?” is the implicit — and sometimes explicit — assumption. The obvious answer, as midterm elections and even last month’s general election showed, is “Away.” For every Stein voter there were scores of “Democratic” “base” voters who stayed home, or even showed up but didn’t vote for president. The Democratic party is entitled to precisely no one’s vote. It has to earn every one. And it has been failing to win enough of them to win elections, very conspicuously and catastrophically in recent years.


It's the economy, stupid

Arguments have raged around here, as at many other social media sites and Democratic-leaning media outlets, about an alleged battle between economic populist issues, as represented by Bernie Sanders’ campaign, and social justice issues, as purportedly represented by Hillary Clinton’s campaign. These are often portrayed as being in opposition, a binary choice. The argument is often framed as which is more important. Let me be clear: this is stupid and is bullshit. Economic and social justice issues are not opposed to each other. They are like your right and left hand. You need both to be fully functional and operate at peak efficiency. They are not identical, but they are matched. They proceed from the same set of values and moral imperatives. They are the political embodiment of the Golden Rule. They are why most of us became Democrats in the first place.

Those pitting one set of issues against the other refuse to see this obvious truth. There is always a reason for this, though people’s reasons differ. But the end result of these arguments, like all such arguments pitting people against each other in politics, is the same: The owners of this country win. Divide and Conquer is ruling class politics 101: it’s as basic a technique as there is for keeping a country’s people under the thumb of its ownership class. Those who foment such arguments are doing the bidding of the oligarchs, whether they choose to see it that way or not.

The New Deal Democratic party found its way out of the political wilderness and built an enduring majority party that lasted for decades by essentially standing up for the 99% against the 1%, as we would put it today. Of course there were aspects of racism and injustice it committed, as it was a creation of its time and place. But it generally did not worsen these social ills while it pursued the goals of economic justice. (Yes, Manzanar was one glaring exception, and you could name others.) Did it do enough to fight racism and sexism and other forms of inequality? Of course not. But the New Deal Democratic party convinced African-Americans to become Democrats rather than Republicans pretty overwhelmingly, so in the context of the time they must have done something right.

Today we have economic inequality rivaling the worst of the Gilded Age or the Roaring Twenties, and it shows no sign of abating its rapidly worsening trend. Poor, working class and middle class Americans are hurting. Most are worried and pessimistic about the future. Median household income hasn’t come close to recovering from the level it reached at the end of the 1990’s, as a bubble-fueled economic boom was about to pop. US life expectancy has begun to fall, a surefire sign of a sick society. The suicide rate in this country is at a 30 year high, with women and middle-aged Americans killing themselves at much higher rates than in the past. Our national infrastructure is getting worse all the time. All these big-picture statistics paint a nation in decline, offering the mass of its citizens little or no reason for optimism.

Today’s Democratic party offers little hope for the vast majority of Americans worried about their economic security today and in the future. Obamacare is its main recent achievement, but increasing numbers of Americans are finding their mandated insurance unaffordable to use if they need it, and rising premiums for insurance they can’t afford to use only deepens their stress. Hillary Clinton’s campaign offered little to address these concerns: Jobs only rated fifth among her campaign’s issues-based ads, and economic issues didn’t hit the top five in her allied super-PAC’s advertising. But for decades, the Democratic party has moved away from lunchbucket economic issues and constituencies. It’s no accident that Card Check never came up in the 2009-10 Congress, or that Barack Obama never put on his comfortable shoes to walk a picket line. Everybody could see Barack Obama’s quest for the TPP, just like they could see his previous quest for a Grand Bargain to cut Social Security. He was Captain Ahab on these issues, for Chrissakes. And nobody believed Hillary Clinton’s campaign conversion on the TPP. Nobody trusts her, remember?

Concern for working class welfare is not racist. PoC are disproportionately represented in this class, as are women, and their concerns for a living wage, a chance to put some savings away and buy a home, and see their kids have a better life are not substantially different than working class white men. Participating in the Divide and Conquer game, just like the Republicans, only gives people scapegoats to blame for their troubles. The false dichotomy between economic and social issues has in practice allowed the Democratic party to continue to pursue it’s economic agenda favoring the wealthy while pretending to be “progressive” or “liberal” or “left.” In doing so, they have robbed these labels of much of their historic meaning. These words are signifiers that signify less and less. Looking back to January, I observed this as well:

Today we are functionally an oligarchy, with the Democratic and Republican parties acting as divisions in the Governmental Affairs Department of America, Inc…. [T]he New Deal Democratic party is as dead as the Whigs. Our latter-day version is one more vehicle of corporate influence: the Goldman Division, as it were. We are locked in phony battle with the Koch Division for spectacles of Potemkin democracy, which offer choices that cost the owners of this country nothing and usually improve their quarterly numbers. Nothing can be done anymore that doesn't pay off billionaire sponsors first and last. Social wedge issues are used by both parties to keep their partisans cheering, but these issues have negligible cost to the sponsors of the contest.


You catch more voters with honey than with vinegar

When I bowed out of participation here, Bernie Sanders supporters were being run off in fairly vile and hateful ways. It was made clear that we were not welcome, and the Clinton campaign didn’t need us. We would be tolerated, barely, if we behaved ourselves and didn’t bring up inconvenient facts. Even these days, with the Clinton campaign reduced to a smoking crater in the ground, this sentiment is common — it seems to be the prevailing sentiment still, in my brief visits lately. How did that exclusionary vision work out for you Clinton fans?

It wasn’t just DailyKos. The Clinton campaign was just as bad at the convention, muzzling and evicting Sanders delegates from the floor. Clinton made plays for suburban Republican voters, and her campaign explicitly believed that they’d pick up more country-club Republican voters than they’d lose pissed off working class folks. The entire campaign was the apotheosis of Clintonian triangulation, and perfectly reflected Thomas Frank’s thesis in his recent book "Listen, Liberal." Accusations of Racism and Sexism and Privilege were liberally (!) hurled at those who didn’t toe the party line, in a transparent effort to silence dissent. These accusations were usually wrong, and always truculent. The economic left of the party — what remained of it — was shown the door of the not-so-big tent.

Candidates and parties win when more voters vote for them than the other side. Exclusionary rhetoric and intolerant gaslighting does not win support, it actively repels it. After years of criticizing the Democratic party from the inside, in an effort to improve it, I gave up on it this year. I voted for some Democrats, but not for Hillary Clinton. Again, my single vote didn’t make a difference, as Democrats won up and down my ballot. But I offer myself as a cautionary tale to the purity police on DailyKos and around the Democratic party, for whom any deviation from party orthodoxy is cause for burning at the stake. You party purists are not always right, and you’re almost always wrong when it comes to attacking anyone who doesn’t agree with you or vote the way you want them to all the time.

Here are some suggestions, from a former Democrat many of you know:

1. If you want more votes, you need to do more listening and less accusing. Ask questions of people, and listen to what they tell you. Efforts to “improve your messaging,” so popular around here, only amount to finding more ways to tell people what you think they should believe. This is rarely convincing or productive.
2. You need to find some humility, and admit that once in a while, perhaps, you might be wrong about something. Especially those of you who were comprehensively wrong during the late campaign season. Dog knows the Democratic party has had enough lessons in humility lately, and it will have more until it starts to learn what those lessons are trying to teach.
3. Don’t set yourself up in opposition to the large majority of voters, white people. You don’t have to pander to racists to find a common agenda that appeals to a wide swath of white voters, while maintaining a strong social justice agenda. The Democratic party did just this for decades, with far more success than it currently claims.
4. Address the economic fears and pain so many of your countrymen and women face, even if their lives are not like yours. Develop a forward-looking vision for what this country can do to reinvent its middle class, and rescue itself from the clutches of rapacious billionaires. Even if they are big Clinton donors.
5. Apologize to the voters. Admit that what you’ve been doing hasn’t worked. Listen to other ideas for what might work better. And admit, Goddammit, that what has happened to the Democratic party is its own damn fault. Stop the scapegoat hunt, and place the blame on the people who’ve actually been making the decision and calling the shots that led to this catastrophe.

If you ever want to win elections again, stop telling me and millions of other people like me that we’re traitors or selfish dicks, and start figuring out how to give us a party we might want to vote for again. If you can manage that, I’m willing to come back. If not, have the decency to clear the rotting carcass of your party off the road so something better can get around it.

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Please help support caucus99percent!

First off I haven't been on c99 in a while.. Place looks GREAT !!

I did drop by TOP and read your diary there... UPRATED it and YOU. It was a great diary!! I was surprised to read that you got a TO though... and there is a big debate there about WHY. everyone seems to have a different opinion so I opened a help desk ticket asking about it Smile

I am sure,you already know your diary is the CLICKBAIT DIARY DU JOUR today ... Obliterating their FP Smile

think I,will start dropping by here again.

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Orwell was an optimist

elenacarlena's picture

I haunt both places, but really, when they TO a diary like this....

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dervish's picture

I mostly only go to TOP for the schadenfreude.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Trying to "push" the media to cover the issues :). haven't been on any blogs much for months ... And just started commenting on TOP again and only for the satisfaction of telling a few select people how,so totally wrong they were Smile

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Orwell was an optimist

elenacarlena's picture

Are you there under this name? Follow me there and I'll follow you back. I'll uprate or retweet or add my 2 cents or whatever seems appropriate at the time.

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riverlover's picture

Will it be accepted OT? It is written in "respecful" language without sounding begging or demanding. Very even-handed. At least by this refugee. Dono nobis pacem.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

The Bubble is pretty well entrenched OT. I'm banking that the trolls will illustrate my point, as they've already begun to do.

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Strife Delivery's picture

I read your comment a bit too fast. It looked like:

"The Bubble party is well entrenched."

A fitting name for the Democrats

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dance you monster's picture

. . . to thinking of them as the Denecrotic Party. A dead organ within a dying society.

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snoopydawg's picture

As I expected it went over many heads.
This is one example.

Sauron21
Dec 10 · 10:19:57 PM
To the OP: There is the door you can leave. You are just another fool who got fooled by Russian intelligence. its okay to have a different point of view, but to say what you said about the HRC campaign is 100% false. Sarah Silverman said it best”You are being ridiculous.”

When the March decree came down Russia's 'interference' wasn't on their radar yet. Putin didn't tell us that our opinion of Hillary was unacceptable over there, Markos and Hillary's supporters did. I'm sure that most of us had already made up our minds about which candidate represented the values that we agreed with.
It is so mind boggling that so many people over there have bought the propaganda that it was Russia's interference that caused Hillary to lose the election not her policies or as you wrote the 30 years of their scandals. Being found not guilty isn't the same as being proven innocent.
The Clintons have been involved in shady business dealings their entire careers and if Hillary hadn't decided to use a private email server then Comey's and the FBI wouldn't have had to investigate her use of it and go through all of her emails which instead of turning over when she left her position as she was supposed to, she only turned some of them in after it was discovered during the Benghazi hearings that she hadn't. Or even after she was told to turn them in she deliberately erased over 30,000 of them.

Putin didn't hold a gun to my head and tell me that my opinion of Hillary being a warmonger was true. I came to that decision on my own after reading about how she has been for every military intervention since she was in the White House.
And he didn't hold a gun to my head to make me disgusted with what they did to the people in this country and the world.
I don't think that Putin held a gun to the Clinton's heads during Bill's terms and pushed for him to push for welfare reform, the crime bill, the deregulation of the banks and every other bill that he with Hillary's help passed. In fact I'm pretty sure that Newt Grinwich and other republicans along with the financial institutions were the ones pushing for them. The banks certainly have rewarded them for their works.
I don't think many of the people there even bothered to read much of your diary, they just jumped to make a comment and what you said about how the democrats were the ones that threw their values away wasn't even read by them or they are just so entrenched in their own thinking that any other view is unacceptable to them. That they wouldn't see that Hillary wasn't offering them anything that even came close to what the Democratic Party used to stand for.
The person I quoted definitely didn't.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Markos, Inc. serves breakfast daily and they eat it up.

Folks like Dallasdoc (and others) tried to warn them.

Some of us got out in time. Some didn't.

And now they want to blame us for Hillary's loss?

It was their fault and the fault of the party and they need to own it.

Fabulous sermon, Dallasdoc!

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Citizen Of Earth's picture

But yeah, I like the sentiment. Smile
Great set of visual aids.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

the three Abrahamic religions, with the cross representing Christianity, the prayer beads (or worry beads) representing Islam and Bernie representing Judaism. Although why Bernie is wearing a priest's garb is a puzzlement.

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I went over to view the wreck. Read a couple of comments and left. When I am there, I get the same feelings in my stomach as I do when I think of Trump in office for 20 minutes let alone 4 years. I finally figured out why. They're just like the repulsive Trump voters. The ones who really are ignorant, belligerent and hateful, and who wouldn't hesitate to physically and verbally assault anyone they feel like. DailyKos posters are the fringe of society and the Democratic Party. They are a real equivalence for "both sides" ___________.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Steven D's picture

over at TOP for posting this there. Did not stop it from rising to the top of the rec list (pun intended).

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

I saw it over there first and the comments were ridiculous, all proving Doc's point by doing exactly what they said they would... telling us how to vote, stooping immediately to identity politics and ad hominem attacks. I dropped a few gems on the idiots in the comments, but it's a losing battle.

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Love ya, mean it

Alphalop's picture

Which brings to mind the old adage, "Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

They are a vastly more "Experienced" bunch than we are. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

a hymn with that sermon, because Hillary, her campaign, and the Democratic Party really need a Come-To Jesus moment.

Open the youtube video for the Orchestra accompaniment , then sing along to the new lyrics.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yixWRocskp0 width:350]

O Hillary — When We In Awesome Wonder
Considered All — The Lies Thy Mouth Have Made
We Rolled Our Eyes — At All Your Stupid Blunders
Your Arrogance — To All The World Displayed

You Fooled No One — With Your Hypocrisy
Your Trolls Were Wrong — Your Trolls Were Wrong
You Corporate Fool — You Killed Democracy
The Polls Were Wrong — The Polls Were Wrong.

We Weren’t With You — We Did Not Like Your Message
We Wanted Change — No More Plutocracy
You Rigged The Game — With Media Collusion
With CNN — And MSNBC

Flip-Flops Galore! — Corruption We Could See!
Enough’s Enough — We Called Your Bluff!
The Voters Spoke — No Clinton Dynasty!
You Lost Our Trust — So Don’t Blame Us!

So Now You Blame — Your Mess on Russia’s Hacking
And WikiLeaks — And Mr. Comey , Too
So We’ll Just Say — We Hate To Burst Your Bubble
You Can’t Admit — You Lost Because Of YOU!

You Lost To Trump — Your Misery Is So Sweet
How Lame Thou Art — You Oligarch!
We Saw Through You — You Big Phony Elite
How Lame Thou Art — You Oligarch!
So Now We’ll Say — Just Go Away!

Amen.

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Your version of "HOW GREAT THOU ART" is a masterpiece!It sums perfectly how Hellery saw herself and the idiots that worshiped her.You made me smile what great humor!

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DW

the Democratic Party wrote in their last-ditch pull-out-the-stops effort to try and convince the Electors to switch their votes from Trump to Hillary.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oiU2iOG-OU width:350]

(Short Instrumental Bridge to first verse)

O Come All Ye Faithless
Angry and Indignant
O Come Ye and Cast Your Votes For
Hillary, Our Queen.
Come and Behold Her
Born the Queen of Hubris
Although You May Abhor Her
We Won't Let You Ignore Her
So Come Let Us Adore Her
Hillary, Our Queen

People of Color
Millennials and Women
O come Ye and Cast Your Votes For
Hillary, Our Queen
Please End Our Nightmare
(She Was More Electable)
Progressives Do Not Faze Her
Forget About Who Pays Her
Lift Up Your Hands And Praise Her
Hillary, Our Queen

O Come Ye Electors
You Must Now Obey Us
O Come Ye and Cast Your Votes For
Hillary, Our Queen
She Must Defeat Him
Trump - The King of Arrogance
We Will Not Ever Waiver
Despite Her Bad Behavior
We Need Her As Our Savior
Hillary, Our Queen
(Hil-lar-y, Hil-lar-y, Our Q-u-e-e-e-e-n)

During the hymn, the offering plate will be passed around. Give generously.

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progressives do not faze her,forget about who pays her,brilliant Mike you rank up with the other Texas song writers Jerry Jeff and Willie

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DW

elenacarlena's picture

I LOL'd! I may have to steal verses here and there and drop them into the more obnoxious diaries Over There, if you'd allow.

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And that includes the video with the musical accompaniment. It's all grand and majestic - just like she (and they) think she is.

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MsGrin's picture

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

riverlover's picture

that I mispled yesterday. Latin has a low retention score by me.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Pricknick's picture

and well worth it.
Unlike you, I've been more than happy to let them blame me. Such power is rarely achieved.
While I could care less if the democratic party reforms, I look forward to recommending your post.
Money says that the first negative post will be from a speed reader.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

hester's picture

I almost left the party after the NY primary but waited. I'm done w the democrats for now.

Nice diary, well done.

Good luck.

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Don't believe everything you think.

Jazzenterprises's picture

and more importantly, welcome back!

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Progressive to the bone.

And even local/national politics. The USA!! has murdered hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East, North Africa, Central Africa, and East Asia (and who knows in Central America) since 2000. Enough with the status quo. Enough with the New World Order. Enough with the Global War on Terror. Enough with globalism. Enough with the World Trade Organization.

Bring back tarriffs. Bring back trade barriers. This has worked before (1776-1980). Hello!?

And I am sick of the global warming alarmists. Yes yes yes we need to reduce emissions. But......

How about population control? And constrain population movement. This is serious. The USA should set a population limit! As should the rest of the nations on Earth. Push has come to shove. Adults need to step up. Sheesh!!!!

Remember the dinosaurs?

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The "global warming alarmists" phrase just ain't right. There's nothing else to be alarmist about, compared to that. Population control is a vitally important tool nobody is talking about. Unfortunately, I suspect it's going to be Mother Earth who wields it.

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The global warming phrasing I made was inaccurate. Interestingly, as a geologist who studied climate change in university (UMD Minn-Duluth) in 1981, I was a sceptic until the soil scientists stepped in with their contributions in the early to mid 1990s. Their data with regard to soil reflectivity, tipped the balance, blew my mind. Soil scientists rock (they had no horse in this race). I am sorry but I don't recall the details.

Using global warming to rail against carbon emissions is not enough. There is so much more in the equation. And population is critical, IMHO.

I just want to say that anyone who says that voting for Trump is voting for racism or fascism; I say that voting for Trump or Clinton is voting for mass murder of people living in the Middle East, parts of Africa, and parts of Asia.

Namaste

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

until I watched this:

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0U0wGAlpgM]

The relevant part starts at 4:32.

Apparently some people aren't willing to wait for global warming to wipe out billions.

I'm incredibly pissed off that, after being born into the Cold War, growing up in it, and surviving it (Holy shit! We didn't murder each other en masse and turn the planet into a wasteland!) I now, in my 40s, have to be afraid of dying in a nuclear war again.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

elenacarlena's picture

This whole Russia thing, srsly, I'm glad Trump is in charge for that reason. The ConservaDems seem to want to antagonize Russia. Suicidal.

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snoopydawg's picture

Syria isn't threatening this country in anyway and she damn well knows that.
The Syrian war is being fought so that Saudi Arabia and Qatar can build pipelines.

I loved what he said about the NDAA.
"They created it because they plan on using it.
Section 215 says that the president has the power to arrest anyone he Thinks might be a terrorist or is helping a terrorist organization and that person can be locked up indefinitely without charges or have access to a lawyer.
If that isn't against our 5th amendment, what is?
Since the drug war started and especially after they passed the patriot act our liberties have been eroded so much that they are barely recognizable.
And people are not aware of this.
Next time you hear someone say that our troops in the Middle East are fighting for our freedoms, tell them that we don't have many left.
I've said it before that the reason for militarizing the police is because they are going to be ready for anyone who dares rise up against the powers that be.
It's going to take millions of people protesting but I don't see this happening anytime soon because most people are okay with what the police do to protesters.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Pluto's Republic's picture

How about population control?

That's all there ever was that was a meaningful mitigator. Interestingly, the mathematics had been calculated and published right around the time this country was being formed. Both using concepts that emerged from the Age of Enlightenment. Both consequential to this day.

It could be, however, that our species has a doomsday flaw where the brain cannot stop the body from breeding. Sadly, such things occasionally happen in complex lifeforms. Their group survival instincts go fatally awry. All the recycling in the world won't mitigate the inevitable consequences of that.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

word.

And I don't get it. The majority population is not geared to THIS discussion/reality/situation. I have learned to call this something I learned, I don't know where, "Lizard brain"! Kinda silly but true. - I always look at birds as evolved lizards. Of course they are. But people refer to others as lizard brains. It seems beyond them. I said it...

Pluto's Republic, maybe we are here to witness

I always enjoy your posts. Definitely.

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Looks like we are bombing the final exam, doesn't it?

Maybe we can pull it out, but...

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Outsourcing Is Treason's picture

I visited China four years ago with the enforced one-child policy in effect. It was a disaster. In America every town has playgrounds filled with the sound of groups of children laughing. In China this was noticeably absent.
Nobody liked it. Happily, siblings are now legally allowed.

There are some life decisions that grown-ups need to make for themselves without Big Brother telling them what to do. First and foremost is whether to have children and how many. No to government mandated abortions. No to "population control".

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"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush

elenacarlena's picture

decent healthcare so your children are likely to grow up healthy and productive and able to care for their parents in their older age, as well as a SS system so parents can do most of the caring for themselves, then you get population control. It doesn't have to be mandated. Just incentivize small families. I don't know any woman who enjoys a career who is interested in being a baby-making machine.

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It's about all the rabbits getting together and saying, "Brr, we're reproducing to a level not conducive to a healthy ecosystem. We need to show restraint."

I guess we're just big-brained monkeys.

Me, I'm a big picture, long term strategist by nature. Interesting times, indeed.

Peace.

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CB's picture

The rate of growth peaked in 1962 and has been declining since. Projections show the world population will level off at about 12 billion by 2100 from current 7.4 billion (provided climate change doesn't accelerate the decline). The world could readily support 12 billion if resources were more evenly shared and waste decreased.

World Population Growth
In order to study how the world population changes over time it is useful to focus on the rate of change (rather than just levels). The following visualization presents the annual population growth rate, superimposed on the total world population, for the period 1750-2010 (plus projections up to 2100). This is the period in history when population growth changed most drastically. Before 1800 the world population growth rate was always well below 1%, while in the course of the first fifty years of the 20th century annual growth increase to up to 2.1% – the highest annual growth rate in history, recorded in 1962. After this point, it has been systematically going down with projections estimating an annual rate of growth of 0.1% for 2100.

This means that while the world population quadrupled in the 20th century it will not double in the 21st century.

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Great info

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Lily O Lady's picture

Zero Population Growth (ZPG) movement. However, burning of fossil fuels and pollution are equally important. For human activity not to affect our environment, the population would have to be unrealisticly small. Other than abortion, birth control is quite recent in human history. And war, disease and famine have not curbed population growth.

The idea of ZPG was to convince people that smaller families were necessary to preserve the biosphere. Sadly it was allowed to die, possibly in part because of capitalist policy makers who believe in eternal growth. Instead we had the "quiver full" movement and the anti abortion and anti birth control fanatics. The Roman Catholic Church has played its part in population growth.

Burning millions of years of carbon over a couple centuries as brought us to where we are today. There are no simple answers. Blaming overpopulation only is too limited.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

and prosperous future, both the 99% and the 1% needed to give up something.

The 99% needed to give up the right to have as many children as they wanted, and accept some limitations on that right.
The 1% needed to give up the right to have as much money and power as they wanted, and accept some limitations on that right.

Also, in addition to making these sacrifices for the common good, they needed to unite on two large projects:

One: Educate women and girls worldwide. Educate them well.
Two: Shift from a fossil-fuel-based civilian economy to a non-fossil-fuel-based civilian economy. And work toward a military that runs on something other than fossil fuels, for the future.

But that was no fun, so we created endless war, tyranny, and the collapse of the biosphere, all wrapped in lies.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cassiodorus's picture

The people with "choice" at this point are the 1%, who reside in "Richistan," the utopia of money. They chose the current dystopian outcome because they think business as usual can continue with the abrogation of democracy and because they think they are adequately insulated against the consequences of this choice.

The 99% "chose" to have babies about as much as they "chose" to join the Armed Forces or as much as they "chose" to buy health insurance under Obamacare or as much as they "chose" to stay out of elections which offered them nothing, or for that matter as much as they "chose" to spend the spare change they begged from other members of the working class upon the purchase of 40-ouncers from the local liquor stores in neighborhoods redlined by the supermarkets. They "chose" the least grim of options from their inadequately-supplied perspectives. Giving up something? Half the working class is a missed paycheck away from poverty.

If anyone is to blame for the plight of the working class it is those who crushed the notion of a working class party in the long-gone era in which such a party had a chance. Future generations were thus to propose versions of a "Left" which were too innocuous to challenge the Democratic Party.

Our problems as Americans go back to the McCarthy era, to the early 1950s. And so we wait, once again, for an opportunity to do something about the present era, the era of Gramm-Leach-Billey and of Taft-Hartley. Thus my proposal for a new party.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I agree with your first paragraph here as an accurate description of current reality, and the reality that we've been living in for some years now. But I am not talking about what's happening now. I am talking about a choice that needed to be made back when we still had choices.

Of course, the only people with choice at this point are the wealthy, and that's been true for a while now. But it hasn't been true for my whole life.

If you're saying the 99% shouldn't have to give up anything, because they have been so hurt and abused, I agree. But if the majority of the population didn't give up the choice to have an unlimited number of children, we would consume the planet's non-infinite resources and end up with a wasteland. Well, I guess we could have had a mandatory death age, or some other wildly dystopian way of controlling population, but on the whole, I think I'd rather be in Philadelphia, if you get my drift.

The only way I can see that we could survive, have no limits to procreation, and NOT have some horrible dystopian Soylent-Green-style solution, is if we managed to technologically advance quickly enough to have terraforming and/or faster than light space travel, and colonize space quickly enough that we would have a way not to overload the system and exhaust resources here.

That doesn't mean that global warming or ecological depredation and collapse are "the fault" of the 99%'s ability to breed, as, of course, the 1% were willing and able to destroy the biosphere with their greed and aggression regardless. And have been doing so for the past 30-40 years in full knowledge of what they're doing.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

response to your comment here shows. Many have taken that point from your observations and run with it, far afield from Dallasdoc's fine essay about the Democratic party.

Just a suggestion.

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

Articulate and logical.

I predict most (not all, but most) responses will engage in exactly the behavior outlined in the post as major facets contributing to the mentioned failures.

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Shockwave's picture

Well said.

Nothing will happen until new leaders emerge from the grassroots.

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The political revolution continues

dervish's picture

the billionaires that own the Democratic party have set the grass on fire, and their flackies will beat down anything that emerges.

We're going to have to grab control away from them, or start some other kind of movement.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Pricknick's picture

Money says that the first negative post will be from a speed reader.

It took three minutes from time of post.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Nobody could have predicted....

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That's not fair. You said you'e tell us when you posted. I've already read and rec'd it and was waiting here for you to give the word.

I'll go over and rec. I've been visiting on occasion to help my friends here. I can't overdo it. TOP is not good for my blood pressure.

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I saw that.

You have mad skillz!

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Pricknick's picture

On the plus side, the crowd over there is a Barnum Quote:
“Every crowd has a silver lining.”

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

You need to find some humility, and admit that once in a while, perhaps, you might be wrong about something. Especially those of you who were comprehensively wrong during the late campaign season.

I think you will have to be more specific, because those same people have selective memories

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lunachickie's picture

if you know what I mean...

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Your essay is an excellent one, and makes points I have been trying to make since the Ides of March Decree. You, however, are doing a far better job of it than I could.

Give rose

So, have you been smacked with El Bojo yet? I suspect that will be The Sewer's reaction. Remember, one of the DLC types you rightly inveigh about is named Markos Moulitsas. He wanted another eight years of Clintons. Of course, Napoleon's rich enough to afford eight more years of Clintons. Most of the rest of us aren't.

Diablo

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

But that may come. I had to put something like this over there just to bring my participation there to a formal close.

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... for telling somebody to go fuck himself for blaming me for Trump. So at least I got that acknowledgement.

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talking point with a profanity.

Wink

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snoopydawg's picture

Are you deleting your diaries there? I've bookmarked your
"Let the healing begin" one.
That brought me so much comfort after what Hillary said and her f'cking supporters backed her up.
Do you remember reaching out to me the first time I wrote about my brother's death? I do and it meant so much to me.
It still does as did your financial support.
I hope that you and Mark have a great holiday season.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Your pain hit home for me, and I've always felt close to you since. I hope things are starting to get better for you after your more recent loss.

I haven't deleted my diaries there, because there are a lot of good comments from old friends in them. But then I've never been that much of a diarist over there anyway. Certainly not compared to folks like gjohnsit.

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snoopydawg's picture

so thankful for it.

I'm doing better than I thought I would with mom's death and it's hard to believe that it has been almost a year since she died.
As everyone knows who has experienced the loss of a loved one, the first holidays are the hardest.
There was thanksgiving and the week after was her birthday. Next up is Xmas then the anniversary of her death at the end of January.
But she had been slowly slipping away after her strokes and she was in pain from her back and she was okay letting go.
The week before she died her husband asked her if she wanted to go somewhere next week and she told him that she didn't think she would be here, but smiled when she said that.
She had atrial fibrillation at home and then had another small stroke in the hospital. She came back from having a MRI and was so happy because she had watched a video that was full of colors and lights and kept talking about it, then had another stroke and slipped into unconsciousness.
The day she died my aunt called and told me she had just died and since she was going to be cremated I went to say goodbye to her. Imagine my surprise when I opened the door to her room and she was alive.
Who knows what happened, but after 5 minutes while her husband was talking to her she opened her eyes and smiled at him.
Then my brother got there and 10 minutes after that she did die.
We think she waited for Steve and me to come and say goodbye.

The night before she died I clearly heard her say my name and woke up feeling her presence in my room. The same thing happened before my brother died and I think both of them came to tell me goodbye.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

for reminding me what I so appreciate about reading your essays, comments: kindness, empathy, understanding. What was wiped out of TOP. Grateful to all who created C99% as this place to come to, to learn and most especially to LISTEN to the opinions of others, to disagree, but not to attack, or try to destroy those with whom we do disagree.
I cried when I read so many of the reflections about John Glenn, this one especially:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/09/opinions/john-glenn-second-act-seymour/

Gave up the New Years Resolution years ago. Instead, try to select a word, words to focus on for the coming year. This year Empathy leads the list.

thank you dallasdoc for this splendid essay, I feel blessed to have this site to come to.

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Even over the "Scary Putin" diaries.

And you on TO. Too funny.

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elenacarlena's picture

We told them since Bernie ran that they were voting for the candidate least likely to beat Trump. They voted for Her anyway. Now they want to blame us. Nope. Not accepting it.

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Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

Since it was the Hillary Klan that gave us President Trump...
Both as a Pied Piper Candidate and by giving us The Only Candidate That Couldn't Beat Donald Trump!

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,

grown increasingly alienated from the party but kept voting D from habit and perceived lack of alternatives. I've regretted my 2nd vote for Obama; I sure as hell wasn't going to vote for Hillary Clinton (though I'm a Boomer woman). I'd lived in VT and have a high regard for Bernie Sanders.

After > 40 years as a D, I left the party about the same time you did and for the same reasons. As this Potemkin election dragged on, I finally realized that, when presented with unacceptable options, the sane response is to reject them. I, too, voted for Stein and a couple of Ds on my ballot, and my True Blue state stayed that way.

The ready use of identity politics in this election made it a civil war. It broke friendships; family members stopped speaking. I refused to be defensive about my position, despite my horrified "but Trump!" friends and family. I simply said that I found both duopoly offerings unfit for office and would vote for neither. Barring widespread fraud, if Clinton convinced enough voters to vote for her, she'd win; if not, she'd lose, and that would be her fault, not the voters'. Beyond that, I refused to engage and still do.

I expect to remain an unaffiliated voter. I see no evidence that the party's insiders have learned the lessons of 2016. Quite the opposite, in fact. I see the entrenched forces digging in, plugging their ears and covering their eyes and blaming everyone but themselves and their historically disliked and scandal-ridden nominee and her clunker of a campaign.

For the (un)Democratic party, it's Darwin time: adapt or die. Anyone willing to give odds on that one?

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

dervish's picture

has a much greater chance of bringing about change than any reform of the Dem. party. Trying to drag the party apparatchiks and the connected class from their feeding trough will be close to impossible. Movements like DAPL just bypass them completely.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

I found it quite entertaining and it gave me the opportunity to tell Armando to F off in Yiddish Smile

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Orwell was an optimist

Thought that was even funnier than my own staying on there so long.

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...and now there's a writer I've never heard of or read defending him/herself against what they perceive to be an attack against me.

As Armando would say, Heh.

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Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

F himself. You were quoting your own diary where you said F- off to anyone who wanted to blame anyone who didn't vote for Hillary as being responsible for Trump which that poster absolutely did. You even said "as I said in the diary" So the f off was once removed and addressed to them as part of a group. I thought it was well and skillfully done and stayed within all guidelines for civil discourse. Just my opinion, but the playback shows the flag should never have been thrown.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

elenacarlena's picture

There's nothing Kos hates more than someone who has an opposite opinion of his, is totally correct, and makes the top of the Rec List.

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Kurichan's picture

Felt chased away during primaries, hope this helps pull heads out of asses, but that might be as fairy dust as the other things we'd like to see: peace, compassionate policies, etc. haven't even read it all(and don't have to). But I def will and spread what I can...

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Kurichan's picture

When looking for something I could read vs make me want to wretch during the primaries. Thank you for all the great writing! Really: thank you!

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Big Al's picture

I get it.

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Just don't see it changing enough for that to be worth considering. I'd be happy to be wrong.

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Pricknick's picture

While I could care less if the democratic party reforms,

I'm done.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Big Al's picture

I was never there so I can't be done.

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Have you seen anything to suggest people here are a monolith? How can you generalize about "people here?" The whole point of here is that people can express differing opinions without fear of being hidden, put in a penalty box, or banned. People can even play with ideas to see where they lead. It's fun. Try it sometime.

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Big Al's picture

I'm observant, I see what essays garner the most recs. It's the ones railing against the democratic party, Daily Kos and the Clinton supporters. I've been here since day one so don't tell me I don't get it.
This place has turned into daily kos east.

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

People talking about US politics are frequently talking about one of the two major parties that run this nation further into the ground each election. How dare they?

What's got you acting so hostile to people lately?

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mimi's picture

reading through a thread on this site that was extremely combattive.

This place has turned into daily kos east.

To post over there and waiting to get banned or a TO by the kos bots is considered a matter of a reward for someone's heroic writing activities? Hmm, I wouldn't fear those over there at TOP, words have meaning, but they kill only, if some psychopath is so convinced about the righteousness of his own arguments and thoughts that he/she acts up in real space on them. It then can end up in a criminal activity. Which makes me sad to observe.

If you can't stand TOP, just say "bye, bye" and live with the consequence that you can't comment and write over there.

Dallasdoc's essay is very good and I appreciate his analysis very much and agree with it. The only thing I don't believe in is what he said in one of his comments on this thread:

I had to put something like this over there just to bring my participation there to a formal close.

Where will dallasdoc then write in the future? Here? He will draw those "bots" from over there to over here. So, in that sense I foresee what you said, ie that this site will become a "dailykos east" as an unintended consequence.

I just wished all wouldn't waste their time to blame anyone else. I believe most people you accuse are not that "smart" to understand the unintended consequences of their political activities and activism. I can't stand many of the "fighting words". I am a chicken and pick my reading material like them, blindly. It still opens my eyes. I am a lucky bastard and count my blessings. Or may be my gall bladder just doesn't produce enough bile to get a kick out of being a bit vile. I like people going along with each other without giving in to corruption or manipulation and keep alert to their own moral conscience and instincts.

Peace, you all. Good Sunday. Thank You, to dallasdoc and Al and the guys who make it possible to write my comments here.

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kharma's picture

this place doesn't have the one weapon they need. They can't gang up and shut people up here, their arguments have to hold their own or be ridiculed and mocked. The one thing they have, the ability to silence, is absent and they aren't nearly as reckless to dip their toes into here without backup.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Guess the time for intervention has passed.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

kharma's picture

bullies shouldn't be tolerated even (especially) if they force an agreeable opinion. Hopefully he will reconsider.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

mimi's picture

analysis, no matter where he writes. So, of course, I like to be able to read him here, because I can't run around to several site looking for him. And I agree with you that here one is quite well embedded in well meaning discussions.

I just hope that the blame going around to people, who have lied or betrayed or disappointed many of us in the past, like Obama and Hillary and others, will somehow fade away, because what has been done is done, no way to change the past, change we can only ourselves, our thinking, our actions and only that what is ahead of us.

It's time for a huge movement fighting corporate and financial power players taking over representative civilian rule, ie polticians and stink tankers, who dance to their strings like marionettes.

I would like to see a party, if there is no other way to do it, whose goal it is fight for equality of all people and for proportional representation and for laws and regulations that help achieve that.

Joe wanted the party of nobodies, he said once jokingly. I want a party of somebodies, because we are all somebodies, no matter where we came from, and those somebodies want and need the same things, equality, socially and financially, and freedom of speech as well as privacy in your own homes and to an extent online.

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