The Hell You Say
A friend of mine who knows that universal healthcare is a high-priority issue for me sent me a link to this article at The Intercept today about the yuge grassroots army supporting Bernie's new MFA bill.
I was happily reading along, feeling kinda optimistic, until I got to the list of these 24 grassroots organizations that have "vowed" to support the bill. Specifically, #19:
19. DailyKos: A hub for liberal bloggers founded in 2002 opposed to the Bush administration, which has an active email list of millions of people.
Um... What!?! This is wrong on so many levels. I can't even. A cursory glance at daily kos, with the Bernie Bashing "Brainwrap" on the rec list dissing the whole idea (as expected), tells me this article is full of it. Where did they get this list? And here I thought The Intercept was a good site for news.
Suffice to say, I lost trust in that article, the author, and their list of "organizations" supposedly on board with the bill. Because other than Our Revolution and the nurses union, I don't know if any of the others are actually on board, but I know that The Daily Kos Hillary sure as hell is not, and doesn't belong on any such list. It starts to look like pure hype and bullshit.
A look through the comments on kos was sort of funny, I admit, because I thought about how they are going to find themselves twisting into pretzels if their next nominee actually supports universal healthcare. The "rising stars" Harris and Booker are sponsoring it. How will the Kos Krew justify that after all this time and energy spent tearing it down because Her Heinous says never ever.
----
Update: thank you to FuturePassed, I've learned that daily kos is sending out fundraising emails saying they are joining Bernie in fighting for this bill. They are riding his coattails to make money! I don't know why I'm surprised at the audacity.
However, I owe an apology to the Intercept writer. They were apparently just reporting that kos claims to be on board. Obviously the writer doesn't frequent the site to know better.
Comments
Heh, I wrote a comment there
to let them know that DK wasn't on board with Bernie's bill.
Anyone can comment on this. You only need to provide your email address. I have never received any emails from the website, so feel free
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Ha, thanks snoopydawg
I just looked and found your comment there, good job, I think you covered it well.
Completely ridiculous listing Dkos as part of "Bernie's army" on anything! I was floored. The author is either clueless or intentionally being misleading. I don't have the energy to research the other groups listed, but I'm very skeptical now. I still wonder where they got that list.
I enjoy doing this any time I see a reference to DK
It has changed so much since its creation and it shouldn't be considered a progressive site. Even most of the members there say that they are centrists and are proud of it. They look down on progressive just like Hillary and Kos does.
Did you see his diary on free college tuition? He went the way that Chelsea did and pretty much missed what and how Bernie was talking about.
The echo chamber was very loud.
Sigh
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
kos on free college tuition
I admire your intestinal fortitude, snoopydawg.
The day I could make a habit of reading Daily Kos without evicting my lunch has passed.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Hi, CS! It didn't surprise me
a whole lot to see DKos on the list.
After all, when push comes to shove, all 24 of the listed organizations will support the Democratic Party.
And I think that DKos totally qualifies as a site who's mission is to shill for the Democratic Party. I could be wrong, but I doubt that they would care 'who' sponsored the Bill, so long as it serves to energize the Party Base, and drive Dem Party turnout in 2018.
If you notice, almost every article written about the rollout of the Bill starts with a disclaimer that 'this Bill won't pass.' Instead, they say that it's intended to start a national conversation about health care, and serve as an organizing tool.
Earlier today, Jeff Merkley echoed the same sentiment as he talked up the Bill on teevee. He stated that the Bill should be looked at as "representing a vision," not as something that could pass in Congress any time soon.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
SOSD - A volunteer-run organisation dedicated to the welfare of Singapore’s street dogs. We rescue, rehabilitate, and rehome strays to give them a second chance.
On Twitter - SOSD Singapore@SOSDsg
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
So true Mollie. I noticed that in Al Franken's statement too
He sat right on the fence, "supporting" it as an idea, but at the same time, saying not now. It looks like that's all this is about.
The fact that Hillary missed the memo is ... well, so typical. Her followers are going to have trouble with this split in the messaging. But it does look like the party has decided to follow Bernie's lead and start talking about some of those "ponies" she derides. Dkos can officially pretend they are on board, but most people posting there at this point are definitely not.
@CS in AZ
Words, Bernardo, words.
There was a time when I believed in words.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I share your skepticism. It's like the scene in
Disney's Cinderella, where she appears before her step-family in a dress made over by her animal friends. She expects to go to the ball, but her step-family finds fault with it and tears it up, leaving her in rags. Lucky for her, she had a fairy godmother. All we have are oligarchical godfathers.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
That's what I was thinking. Kos has his
"public" opinion and his "private "opinion".
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
@CS in AZ I love ponies. I
I love ponies. I want an Arab/Morgan cross. wonderful animals. The best. What we all deserve.
Yeah, why change?
when the appearance of change is just as good! It won't pass, so we're with you 100%.
Looks like that may well be the case
Heh.
https://newrepublic.com/article/144805/bernie-sanderss-medicare-plan-goo...
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
In effect they are.
Because Bernie's plan is to pass it in Congress which requires more and better democrats. They fit right in whether they want to or not.
Hum... I dunno Big Al
I understand your point, and in the sense that all of them are on board with the premise of working within the current system, keeping electoral politics as the vehicle for change, you're right. Problem is I can't think of another way to get to a better society here. So I sometimes get sucked into it. Thinking we might get a better healthcare system here is a lure that's hard to resist.
So yeah, it would mean getting better democrats, or scaring the ones we have into doing this. Somehow. And yeah, that's almost certainly futile. Sigh.
Still, within that framework, dkos is not part of "Bernie's army" by any stretch. Since they went all in for Clinton and openly despise Sanders, and his supporters, they no longer even care about policy. They reflexively oppose anything Bernie supports, and reflexively defend Hilz no matter what. At this point, She is attacking the MFA bill and Bernie (and conveniently ignoring the other dem senators who signed on), and lo and behold, I saw the exact same thing on Dkos. It's Hillary talking points and reliving the primary, hagiography. She has a religious following, literally. I'd forgotten how bad some of them are. They certainly don't support Bernie's bill or the concept of MFA, they will take her talking points against it and run with them.
They don't want "better democrats" now - not if that means people who are with Bernie on this issue (or any other).
That's how they want it CS.
They've been using this as a wedge issue for decades. It works. A chicken in every pot. That's how it's going to work.
Would that a bird in a cast would be real.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
@divineorder There's a reason
There's a reason that bird is in a cast. They broke its leg.
Why it won't fly away is a mystery.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
karma
"More and better Democrats." The stated purpose of the Daily Kos site when it was founded in 2002.
Long since abandoned, of course, in favor of the Republican Lite types Kos so loves.
And now "more and better Democrats" (read: Democrats who would be recognizable as such in a continuously-loyal State in 1975) are what is needed, will the Kos Krew or nill them.
The schadenfreude, it burns!
What is it they say about karma, again ?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Nobody really paid attention to "more and better Ds"
over at Orange until Markos tipped the scales in favor of HRC in February of 2016. Then it became a code-phrase for nothing more than "support HRC or else." After all, the Democratic Party doesn't really campaign in its own interest, it's not itself a vehicle for "more and better Democrats," but is rather a vehicle to keep the public from interfering in the deal the Ds and Rs have made with each other to run democracy as a sort of Kabuki theater.
Did anyone else notice how easy it was for them to make Howard Dean's fifty-state campaign go away? Did anyone else notice how there was about zero discussion at Orange the entire time about how the Democrats were losing seats in record numbers from 2010 to the end of the Barackstar's reign? The fools at Orange really, honestly, don't care, and they probably didn't care about us until (and here I am speculating) someone in HRC's campaign told Markos early in 2016 that he should care about us.
"there's something so especially sadistic about waving the flag of a country that you're actively destroying" -- Aaron Mate
Did anyone else notice......
"Wisconsin? Michigan? Aren't those in Canada?" -- HRC's actions in 2015-6
I sure did. Among those losses was a Senator of mine, Mark Udall.
And Markos didn't do it then, either. The Ides of March Decree remained in effect. We were jettisoned from his little Titanic, and most of us swam over here to good ol' terra firma.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
karma is hell, sometimes...
don't worry about kos, my humble opinion; use it's platform when it presents an opportunity.
Peace.
Oh, I don't worry about them at all
I was really more taken aback at reading such tripe on The Intercept. I don't know why exactly, but I'd somehow gotten the impression it was a good source for news. Now I realize that was mistaken. Not to say they don't have any good content.
I guess the moral of the story is to just take everything with a shaker of salt these days. (and a lime and some tequila helps too.)
I was just forming a thought
to add to my quick reply. Bernie shrewdly may be using them, or that's my take, should have been more clear than my one off in saying that, but pulled the trigger without explaining.
As far as the Intercept, isn't daily reading, although, on occasion, it does open discussions.
All in for a shaker of salt and Tequila!
Yes, that's possible, I agree
I go back and forth on my feelings. sometimes Bernie really irritates me with the way he keeps sticking with the democrats even as they attack him, but then other times when I see him making them squirm, I wonder if he does maybe have them on the run. It's certainly true that he would not have 14 other senators talking about and co-sponsoring single payer if he broke from the party. But then my cynical side says, what if it's all a head fake, and sheepdogging. then does he know it, and is he playing us too?
Who knows. I don't have any faith or confidence it will lead to anything. But universal healthcare is the issue that brought me into his camp and why I supported him in 2015/16. So I am happy to see him pushing them on it.
Cool, i've never joined Bernie's critics...
preferring to look at his whole experience fighting for many causes, forever, and i've only an armchair seat to running a presidential campaign. He deserves huge accolades for drawing millions into arenas and waking up, at least, some of the Dems.
Nothing is more important than good health and he's leading the DC charge. Kudos to him!
@smiley7 There is no DC
There is no DC charge. It doesn't matter what we think of Bernie's character. 14 Senators is not a charge--in fact, ten years ago, we would have considered it a loss. Even seven years ago, we would have. It's merely a function of the post-Obama age that makes us consider 14 members of the Democratic party supporting something the party has supposedly supported since FDR as a sign that we're finally gonna get it.
I'd also note that people have gotten on board with this who advocated like hell for Romneycare and excoriated those who were trying for a public option. Which, by the way, is what Bernie's bill is. Which is also a problem.
Using "Medicare for All," which used to be the left's way of framing "single payer" to a public that didn't understand what that was, to describe a public option bill, is also moving the Overton window rightward, even though one could argue that "Medicare for All" is a perfectly good descriptor for a public option. It is, and it doesn't matter: the phrase "Medicare for All" used to be used to mean one thing, and now it's being used to mean another, without any announcement of the change. You can't change the meaning of a word or phrase without announcing the fact that you're doing it. People who do that are usually trying to manipulate others. In this case, they're trying to make people think they're advocating for something considerably to the left of what they are actually advocating. This is a much milder version of Bush's Clear Skies Act. But I don't want a mild Orwellian use of language any more than I want a strong one. If you're using language in that way, you're not being honest.
It's not that I dislike Bernie or that I would be mad if we got a strong public option. Here's my problems with all this:
1)We're not going to get it anyway. Everybody who supports it in DC has been working overtime to make sure we all know it's not going to pass.
2)Even if they were trying to make it pass, 14 senators is a dismal number. And I bet you my bank account that if they ever got near to 51 senators, we would see a filibuster. And I further bet you my bank account that if they ever got near to 60 senators, suddenly some of those senators who support Medicare for All would find inexplicable reasons to no longer support it. Like Jay Rockefeller did the last time we were trying for a public option.
To quote Princess Leia, "Didn't we just leave this party?"
3)As I pointed out above, they are playing fast and loose with the truth. They are attempting to make this bill look like something far to the left of what it is. And they know they are doing it. Nobody who has been in the healthcare fight on Capitol Hill, whether from the politician standpoint, the NGO standpoint, or the activist standpoint, fails to understand that "Medicare for All," has, until this bill, been considered as synonymous with "single payer." Bernie is redefining that phrase to mean something considerably to the right of what it used to mean. Why would he do this? Cui bono? I'd argue the people who benefit from this redefinition are those who want people to shove the concept of single-payer off the political map entirely. You'll notice that the actual single-payer bill, HR676, is nowhere in the discussion, and hasn't been in all the years John Conyers has been submitting it. They're offering us something as if it's what we want, in the hopes that we'll forget the difference between what they're offering us and what we want, and they figure we will forget it, because we like Bernie and the words "Medicare for All" used to mean what we want. It's almost like they're giving us the words as a substitute for giving us the reality.
4)As some have already pointed out on this site long ago, even if they gave this to us, it would be a form of bribery. They are essentially saying: "Forget about the wars that are killing hundreds of thousands of people, forget about the police state that is keeping you under surveillance, forget about the election fraud which is the reason Sanders isn't president, forget about the fact that the last time you got a guy you believed in into the Presidency, he did nothing but advocate the policies of the guy you had just thrown out, forget about the fact that climate change is killing us, forget about the fact that the wage scale in this country is predatory. We're going to give you a conversation about Medicare for All, and talk like we support it. Why aren't you happy with that?"
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I fear my eyes may permanently
Roll into the back of my head if I come across any more of the Bernie's Medicare for All "conversation". Thankfully I came across your input and they rolled back in place.
It's like they fill up the container with kibble and then watch us push the pavlovian button with our noses and scurry back through our maze until It's kibble time again.
I just don't know what else to say watching the kibble feeding unfold. Yet again.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
This!!
This!!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides Thanks, Than.
Thanks, Than.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Very compelling analysis, each point better than the last.
Also, it lays bare the scaffolding such "policy proposals" are built on. It's bastardized legislation in the true sense of the word, and it is risk free for those elected tools who need to get a vote like this on their resume, while being assured it won't happen. Apparently, we have a role to play in that. We're the "purists" who come in at the end and ruin everything by not supporting a poison pill. We provide cover.
I think there is another point I would add to your list: In order to pass a real single payer (or nationalized) health care Bill, you would need to have a popular President who backs it all the way, pushing it through into law. That's fundamental. This is a "show" bill, of course. I imagine sheepdogging is probably part of it. They are trying to put the Democratic Party back together again.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Thank you, Pluto! When you say
you nail it!
Plus, just saw the separate list of 'financing options' that go with the Bill. One option is structured along the same lines as the ACA. And, depending upon one's perspective, could be good or bad.
Option 1 amounts to a cost shift away from families--to single individuals, and couples who are empty nesters, childless, and/or younger couples who've not started a family yet--just like the ACA has done in the Marketplace Exchanges.
Remember, our current Medicare system is subsidized and funded on an individual basis. And the 'metrics' for determining what one pays are equal--with the exception of the additional surtaxes added several years ago, for higher income individuals/couples.
Looks to me like Option 1 would do away with that basic premise.
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
As I stated previously
What I keep coming back to is his buying into the Russian propaganda and that they interfered with the election. Not only the general election, but the primary too.
He has to know that he didn't win it because of what the DNC and Hillary's campaign did to him.
If he read the emails that Wikileaks released after the primary, he then had to read the ones where Hillary and others cooked the false narrative that Russia interfered with the election to give people a reason for why she lost to Trump, the worst candidate ever to run for president.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
I keep coming back to this, too.
I'm afraid these people are all dead to me, from Bill Moyers on down. Their inability to see what was obviously a false flag has put the lives of people I care about in danger. These writers and journalists cannot be redeemed. I know it's a character flaw to be so black and white about things like this, but I see it as tantamount to giving an abusive spouse "one more chance."
I actually have more tolerance for the co-conspirators like Brennan and Clapper than I do for a journalist who embraced this propaganda and then acted deliberately to infect others. At least with the two Intelligence gargoyles, it is perfectly clear what to expect from them. We are talking about facts here, not opinions. We rely on actual evidence, not allegations. There was no US government investigation, none whatsoever, into the physical crime of a hack. And there was no evidence of Russian involvement in the leak; no credible evidence tying Russian hacking to the DNC emails that were published by Wikileaks. In fact, there the only well-documented physical evidence shows the opposite. For a journalist, who has seen no evidence, to incite the beating of war drums by parroting propaganda-based speculation that the US was attacked by Russia is simply unconscionable. They betrayed their country because they were sore losers lashing out. In doing so, they have harmed the American people and forfeited the usefulness of their minds. They should apologize and slink off into permanent obscurity.
[edit for clarity]
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Especially Bill Moyers buying into this propaganda
I have long been a fan of Moyers because of his way of seeing through the bullshit that our government is constantly pushing. For him to being spouting this without asking where the proof is something I never thought I would see for this man who cleaned up his reputation after spending years in the Johnson administration. Shame on you, Bill.
As you stated, there are very real consequences by pushing this propaganda. The people that are buying into this without asking for real evidences that this happened are acting the same way as the people who got behind Bush's push for the Iraq war on False Pretenses
Our military and NATO have been putting troops, military equipment such as missile defense shields in many countries that surround Russia. Yet Obama and our intelligent agencies are telling the world that this must be done to stop Russia's aggression.
Many articles have stated that if the DNC computers were hacked by Russia, there would have been a trail that the NSA could follow. Isn't this why we have over 800 private contracting companies along with our own intelligent agencies spying on us?
One more thing that no one mentions is that the DNC is not a government run agency. It is a private corporation and even if they were hacked, it doesn't mean that our government has a right to go to war with another country. (h/t gulfgal)
The other way to explain this is that Equifax was hacked by an outside agency and if we found out that it was China or Britain that did this, would we respond by going to war with them? I think not.
Great comment, Pluto
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
@CS in AZ I know I'm a
I know I'm a Negative Nancy, but if getting 14 senators in favor of a good policy, even if they do mean it, which all indications are that they don't (if they really were trying to achieve that policy, they wouldn't spend so much time talking about how the important thing isn't to pass it but to "start a conversation"--that's not how people talk who are actually trying to get something done)--but anyway, even if all 14 have hearts of gold and absolutely want to achieve Medicare For All, if 14 senators out of 100 is a win, or a good, or something, we should at least acknowledge that once upon a time, we would have considered that a loss. In fact, we would have considered 14 out of 100 to be evidence that we were nowhere near getting a bill actually passed.
There's more than one use for an Overton Window. In addition to normalizing extreme right-wing ideas, the other half of shifting the Overton Window rightward is to get people like us to accept losses as wins. For instance, when the Republicans wanted to cut 60 billion dollars from food stamps during the recession, and the Democrats only cut 13 billion, and we were all supposed to celebrate that as a win. The idea is, I think, that eventually we will all be so depressed, and so desperate for a win, that we will accept all sorts of things as wins just to make ourselves feel better. And anybody who says otherwise will be a Debbie Downer.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
We can't be sheep-dogged
Unless we're willing.
This goes back to my comment on Big Al's post yesterday: I tend to agree with your first assessment, that Bernie is using the D party. They may be stupid enough to think he can sheep-dog us, but we aren't.
Of course, some people -- I know many of them -- haven't seen behind the curtain yet, so they're susceptible. But the more Bernie uses the D's, the more the curtain gets pulled back.
At least this is what I hope.
I'm with you re: your comment
Bernie Sanders is a shrewd politician with principles. He's having the time of his life introducing MFA with lots of co-sponsors and support. IMO, Sanders will be more than a foot-note in political history.
@smiley7 If Bernie is using
If Bernie is using them for something other than 1)achieving good policy outcomes, or 2)transforming our political system from the inside out, it's of no moment to me.
So I'll wait until I see signs of 1)good policy outcomes being achieved, or 2)political transformation. I've seen none so far. Just a desperate attempt at a makeover by a party that's afraid of losing its donors:
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Armando At Naked Capitalism
In the Water Cooler section, calling Bernie supporters "stupid fucks writing $27 checks"
Followed by the comment:
A long scroll down to the large Vogue ipg then scroll back up to the "eye" avatar. I couldn't copy it:
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/09/117508.html
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Who are the con artists he's talking about?
His tweet doesn't even make any sense unless there is more to this tweet.
I like the part of the article that was about the democrats. McConnell is threatening to ditch the filibuster on spending legislation. This is her response to this:
How many times did we say that the democrats needed to grow a spine? Especially Harry who let the republicans walk all over him.
11 years later, they are still spineless, but I'm not expecting them to change.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
The Backbone Campaign
They gave up on giving the Democratic party a spine.
http://www.backbonecampaign.org/
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Armando is an asshole. NT.
The Intercept got it right.
While I no longer go there except when someone here (You know who you are.) reels a baited hook past my mouth, I am still one of the millions on their email list. This morning I got an email from TOP asking me to contribute to allow DK to join Bernie in fighting for Medicare for All.
It sounded as though they were all in for Bernie. I'm as shocked as you are. I know they take a nice cut out of everything they collect. Maybe it's a financial issue. I've recently received emails pleading more intensely than usual for contributions to make their monthly goals.
I'm open to other suggestions.
PS. I thought about posting the email as a diary, but I don't think I can log in anymore. Do you think they'd ban their own email?
Wow! Ok now that is news. Thank you
I unsubscribed from their list years ago. Why am I shocked that they are fundraising off of this??? Gah.
Now that article makes more sense. Dkos is fucking riding Bernie's coat tails to make money!! Because of course they are! Someone better tell the hoards driving the wreck list. And what is poor brainwrap going to do now? Lol. No I don't care. Sorry about the lure. I'm sorry I even read that stupid Intercept article too. Grr. Now I should probably update the essay.
Thank you for the info! I'm schooled.
@CS in AZ Markos et al know, just
Markos et al know, just like everybody does, that that bill is going nowhere. Therefore it's perfectly safe to support it as wholeheartedly as they like. It won't actually happen, so it won't actually change policy, so there's nothing for the elites to be upset about, so Democrats can support it all they like. They're supporting something that all of them are constantly saying isn't going to happen anyway.
It's rather like Democrats boasting about how they believe in global warming, unlike their Republican counterparts. They do nothing about it--actually, in 2009 and 2010, the Senate Democrats and Obama did worse than nothing about it.
I'm trying to remember the last time I saw a Democrat make a genuine effort to change any policy for the better. Kerry in 2010, on his last attempt at a climate bill? Were any of them actually trying for a strong public option? Rockefeller seemed to be but then at the last minute, when he might have done something because they were passing the bill via reconciliation, reversed his position. This is a longstanding pattern among Democrats; they are absolutely in favor of good policy until it becomes possible to actually achieve it.
I'll throw in a small salute to Henry Waxman, no longer in Congress, who worked himself literally into the hospital trying to get the incredibly flawed climate bill through the House. It passed by one vote. The Democratic Senate didn't even take it up.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You make several excellent points, CStMS,
especially that,
Just posted (in another comment in this thread) from Merkley's official website where he announced his sponsorship--already has an Act Blue fundraising link up with his announcement.
IIRC, the DNC's fundraising has fallen considerably behind that of the RNC. If I had time to burn, which I don't right now, I'd double-check the websites of all of the Senators who've come out in support of the Bill (or who have signed up as co-sponsors). I could be wrong, but I suspect that most, if not all of them, immediately began fundraising off of their support of the Bill.
Remember that Merkley threw his support behind Bernie on April 13, 2016.
Then, on April 29, 2016, he was one of the first Dems to say that Bernie should bow out of the Primary race, and not take his bid to the Convention (if he lost California).
IOW, Merkley supported Bernie for a whopping 16 days, before talking about when it would be appropriate for him to step down.
Somehow, that strikes me as very odd.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
SOSD - A volunteer-run organisation dedicated to the welfare of Singapore’s street dogs. We rescue, rehabilitate, and rehome strays to give them a second chance.
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
@Unabashed Liberal Poor Jeff Merkely.
Poor Jeff Merkely. He used to be one of the good guys. He was the one who reached out to activists about reforming the filibuster.
Harry Reid and the rest of leadership then ripped him a new asshole. Merkely working with activists to change the filibuster so that the Republicans could no longer obstruct the Democratic majority from passing good laws was intolerable to the Democratic leadership in the Senate. He got stood in the corner.
Apparently, Democratic leadership didn't want to change the filibuster.
I wonder why.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I unsubscribed from ActBlue just this morning.
So done with all of this shit.
I think it's funny. I wonder if it's csusing
LMM* any feelings of resentment or disquietude? I mean, he has to know how hypocritical and opportunistic this looks. And it looks that way because it IS hypocritical and opportunistic.
Hahahahaha. It's like barnacles arraching themselves to the butt of a whale. Or tapeworms.
Because you know, "they don't need us" anymore!
*Little Markie Moosetitrs
EDIT: LLM/LMM
And now just because...
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
But some things are
magically invisible to a member of The Church of Hill, like "hypocritical and opportunistic" moves.
Orwell: Where's the omelette?
@jim p As long as those things
As long as those things aren't invisible to us.
I'm a little scared that we will take this poison apple because it looks so nice and shiny.
Except it's not even really a poison apple--it's really more of a picture of an apple, and the Democrats are all saying "Doesn't that look tasty? Join us, and you'll get a bite!"
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
An Orchard of Poisoned Apples
I really expected this (pretenders latching on to Sander's coattails when it's safe to try to gain some credibility) to be the outcome of Bernie's unity efforts and I anticipate seeing more apples roll our way by 2020. After a couple of years of TRUMPTRUMPTRUMP, I'm sure the standard issue "hope and change" will appeal to a lot of voters.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Earlier today, Jeff Merkley
Ah, the old "we'll fight for you (but not actually do anything that might see us win)" ploy.
They are always "feeling" for people, or studying, or fighting (ineffectually) or some other form of "keeping our powder dry", but how often do they actually accomplish something of benefit for the US citizenry?
drowning citizen: "throw me a line!"
Dem (and to be accurate usually the Repubs too as it takes two to kabuki): "don't worry, we're fighting for you to someday have a line thrown to you!"
drowned citizen: " "
(with mock surprise) But, MichaelSF--Merkley's a 'co-sponsor'
of the Bill!
Looky at this--from his official Senatorial website--he's already fundraising off of his sponsorship!
Chip in $3 now to build our movement for Medicare-for-all!
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .
Wonder if I'd find a similar link on the websites of the other Senators who are sponsoring the bill? Too bad that I don't have time to check it out this evening. But, my guess is that I would.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
SOSD - A volunteer-run organisation dedicated to the welfare of Singapore’s street dogs. We rescue, rehabilitate, and rehome strays to give them a second chance.
On Twitter - SOSD Singapore@SOSDsg
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
No, you don't owe an apology to the Intercept,
because it would take about two seconds for them to figure out that Markos and his site are being two-faced pieces of shit. They should at least note the hypocrisy, rather than simply listing Markos as part of "Bernie's Army" or his site as a "progressive organization." How could anyone interested in Democratic politics who spends any time at all online NOT know that DailyKos has been anything but part of "Bernie's Army" for the last two and a half years? Why are many caucusers even here? Because Markos kicked them off his site for supporting Bernie Sanders.
This is spin. It suggests that my perception that Hillary is being turned heel and Bernie turned face is correct. Remember that Markos goes as the Democratic establishment goes. It's quite ridiculous to think he's had a Road to Damascus moment and suddenly developed concern about working people who can't afford healthcare, just as ridiculous as it is to think he's suddenly developed a respect for Bernie Sanders after shitting all over him for a year and a half. If Markos is changing the direction of his site, from anti-Bernie to pro-Bernie, it's because that now suits the Democratic establishment.
So the takeaway here is that the Democratic establishment is finally ditching Hillary as a standard-bearer, and is using her for the only thing she's good for, at least in terms of campaign politics: a villain. They are trying to get us to forget that they shoved her down our throats for two years. They hope Sanders will be able to make people like them again. They will use him to (hopefully) make us think that various members of the Democratic establishment are likable, good people just like Bernie, and that Bernie is really the face of the Democratic establishment. Sadly, some people will believe them, if only because they want to see Bernie vindicated by a win.
It ain't a win till they change policy.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thank you for this most excellent comment
You're right all the way, and that was extremely well said. Thank you!
@CS in AZ I just don't want us to
I just don't want us to confuse a picture of an apple with an apple.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Or the container for the thing contained (Thank you James
Thurber)
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Magritte: "Ceci n'est pas une pipe"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Common Dreams Too
I just dropped a comment requesting that they stop citing Daily Kos because the site purged all Bernie supporters. Maybe they are too busy to check out how badly GOS has become. I dunno.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
"They are riding his coattails to make money!"
And he lets them, same as it ever was. After so many years you'd think people would get a clue.
The power of propaganda is strong, and I think Bernie is a master at spreading it for plutocracy. One of the best. He's the little dollop of good on a cesspool of corrupt politicians, juicing the demographics, trying to capture some future for the dying Ds. Let 'em die, that's what I say.
I wonder how much it would cost LANDLORDS to house homeless in San Diego right now. Don't give money to politicians for nothing , they already said they aren't going to pass MfA, take it from the people who created the problem instead. Haha I'm dreaming.
Death toll from San Diego hepatitis outbreak rises to 16, with 292 people hospitalized
I mean what the holy heck people! This is normal now? For who? Keep talking Bernie, make kids feel good to pour money down the rat hole of politics, as the world burns.
Gil Fulbright much?
good luck
@eyo Wait till something like
Wait till something like this happens in a place where they decide to turn off the water to the poors, like they used to do in Detroit--is that still happening? Haven't heard anything about it for a long while.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Pavlov and kibble fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMibn2-TWG8
But it's cute when
Kitties in funny hats do it.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Thanks for writing this diary.
I myself was sort of wondering if Bernie's bill had actually been "fixed" to get rid of the for profit flaws, etc. but no, it hasn't. And once again, this site is simply invaluable to debunking the latest spin. While I am not totally yet ready to believe Bernie is actively manipulating the 99% it's getting harder. I guess I don't think he's actively doing it, but he IS being used big time by these slimy Dems to try to regain credibility. Not to mention with the foil of those evil Repukes and Trump, they've got a really good kabuki show going for the rubes.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Hey, think, just who is Daily Kos?
I remember arguing with a die-hard GOP supporter nce and saying the horrible things the GOP supports/stands for and she said "But I'm a Republican, and I don't support those things".
When you ask somebody to go get you some tomatoes, and they show up with a can, what then?
To the Intercept, or anybody else, Daily Kos isn't the rank and file, it is Markos and or any "official" PR pronouncements from the head office. Thus, the masthead, for a while anyway, decreed that it was a propressive site, and hence, to those not bothering to read it, it was, because it so defined itself.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Not that this issue interests me much, but
why would it be unimaginable to you that dailykos (aka Markos' crew) know they will lose, if they don't try to co-opt and undermine Berny's armies. I think it's not for money, but for knowing they have already lost the "healthcare issues".
Berny's army has already won and they are peeing in their pants. So, with the words I always hear, if you can't beat them, join them.
Just my two cents.
As you might have noticed CS...
I have been taking advantage of my back in good graces time over at DK pushing for women's reproductive rights and other passions of mine before the curtain gets dropped on me again. There seems to be a lot of newcomers to Bernie's side of things and I don't quite trust it yet. And where was Kos's diary endorsing Medicare for all? He was nowhere to be seen for a long time after his stupid alt-left tweet. Then the other day he wrote a tome about how free college for all wouldn't work. Why the free college of all things? It was silly. To me it was a not so subtle stab at Bernie and its obvious that Kos cant' stand him. So I guess the hopping on board the Medicare for all email support has more to do with Kos trying to be relevant in the eyes of certain Senate Dems.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin