Geoengineering and Reality
The lead essay in Jacobin yesterday was "Against Geoengineering," and this piece is a critique of that essay. "Against Geoengineering" touches upon issues of climate change and of how a human society is to mitigate it.
"Against Geoengineering" is of course a contribution to a discussion of why it sucks to create huge "climate change mitigation" plantations, or why it sucks to dump stuff into the oceans, or why it sucks to dump aerosols into the stratosphere. Indeed it does suck to do these things.
"Against Geoengineering" might seem like a step forward for Jacobin magazine, everyone's favorite pop-socialist publisher of stuff by whomever wants to claim the term "socialism" for themselves. This is especially so given their multiple publication of articles by writers such as Leigh Phillips, famed advocate of ecomodernism. The last thing we need are "socialists" telling us there are quick techno-fixes to our problems. If there are quick techno-fixes to our problems, then why bother with socialism? We'll just go with Trump until he's out of office, then apply the techno-fixes. Everything else will remain the same and the problem will be solved.
As for the geoengineering which Ribeiro is against, it still seems rather likely that some form of geoengineering will be tried, given the present-day complete failure of the governing bodies to come up with serious ideas for climate change mitigation. My piece, "Climate Change Mitigation in Fantasy and Reality" (password: AddletonAP2009), points out why they haven't been serious. It's that our world-ruling elites continue to hold on to the illusion that they can mitigate climate change while at the same time being mesmerized by commodity fetishism and by visions of the utopia of money. What's the word I'm looking for? Maybe Siouxie Sioux can help:
What we can expect, then, is some last-minute panic as the spellbound elites realize that their planet is on fire and that they have done nothing of consequence about it. The elites will of course not recognize, in the future as in the present, that they are in fact at fault for the whole of the problem, for having committed the planet to the maintenance and expansion of international fossil capital. At that point we can expect some form of geoengineering to be tried.
Unfortunately, Silvia Ribeiro insists along with all the rest that climate change mitigation is achieved by "cutting carbon emissions." Carbon metrics, wherein mitigation strategies are validated through the calculation of "carbon emissions," are in fact part of the problem. As Moreno and Fuhr point out in a piece titled "Beyond Paris: Avoiding the Trap of Carbon Metrics," the "cutting carbon emissions" approach "deflect(s) political attention away from the causes of climate change and allow(s) policy makers to deal only with the symptoms in the form of emissions." Geoengineering will eventually be pressed upon a weary and superheated world because, after what will be three decades of thinking about the problem in the wrong way, people will be desperate for anything.
Sure, Ribeiro is right to point out that most of what counts as geoengineering is dangerous crap, peddled by people with financial interests in doing it. Moreover, Ribiero is also correct to argue that geoengineering experimentation is pointless. As the author says, "It is also important to remember that small-scale experiments will not reveal anything about the effect of geoengineering on climate change." The promoters of geoengineering will be flying blind with whatever they do.
It's important to remember, when reading Ribeiro's article, that present day geoengineering, the capitalist manipulation of Earth's ecosystems as motivated by profit, is deadly already. This deadliness, the death of the world through its capitalist manipulation, is the one that needs to be excised, and replaced by some better social form.
The conclusion to this piece reveals its logical misstep:
As climate scientist Raymond Pierrehumbert observes, “It’s bad enough that Trump has his hands on the nuclear weapons launch codes. Do we really want to give someone like him the tools to monkey with the world’s climate as well?”
I'm afraid, to use a potent metaphor, that that horse has left the barn already. The idea, then, is to find something to do that is not deadly, given all the deadly things which are currently being done, the slaughter of the Earth's forests and pumping/ burning of its fossil fuel reserves and pollution of its oceans and global spread of plastics and so on. I'm expecting an attempt of some sort or other to develop a "space sunshade." What do you think?
Comments
How will global rulers react: fight or flight?
It seems the world oligarchs have the belief that they can run away from massive global disruptions be they nuclear war or global warming. My view may just be happen-stance from the sources I read, but global oligarchs are building bunkers, fall out shelters, etc. with the belief they can survive anything. Basically flight and denial.
From the little I know about geoengineering, it seems extensive global cooperation would be required. And that seems unlikely.
Right.
The spellbound elites want to run away from the messes they've made. Unfortunately for them there's nowhere to run to. So geoengineering.
I was going to write a diary, at some point, about why the Elon-Musk-and-Jeff-Bezos fantasy of sending people to Mars is ridiculous. Mars is deadly, and the problem won't be solved by trying to terraform Mars in its current form. It just won't work. Space is deadly, and unalloyed exposure to the Sun's rays outside of the Earth's atmospheric protection over a great length of time will turn one's brain to Jell-O.
I guess I gave up on that diary because the argument seemed too obvious -- the Musk-and-Bezos dream is obvious nonsense, and I didn't want to read two big books about it to discover a conclusion I already had in mind.
Now, to continue with this line of reasoning, I'm sure there's a solution, and someday people will be able to live on Mars, though probably these people will have to be genetically engineered to thrive in 37% Earth gravity. Here's my proposal: put lots of robots in orbit around Jupiter and Saturn. Have the robots insert rockets into whatever big chunks of ice can be found in Jupiter- or Saturn-orbit. The rockets will then be programmed to pick up the big chunks of ice and steer them on a collision course with Mars. If you bombard Mars with enough ice, and if you can somehow separate out the oxygen from the hydrogen in that ice (preferably through photosynthesis), you might be able to build up Mars's atmosphere to the point where it would be breathable.
This is, of course, the sort of expense that neither Musk nor Bezos has in mind.
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
@Cassiodorus I think the more
I think the more logical idea would be to build some kind of dome that could protect the humans living there from exposure. Not so much terraforming as a manmade artificial atmosphere. I put this out there because I'm a science fiction fan, not because I'm advocating for any such thing.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
here is a diary i'd done on
the follies and dangers of geoengineering techno-fixes. ‘a current climate chaos compendium: Part II: geoengineering’, june 21, 2018 cassiodorus has read it. it's long, but noteworthy within is:
‘US Attempting to Move Forward with Geoengineering; Open-air experiments defy global moratorium, could help lock in ‘big bad fix’ for climate’, etcgroup.org May 4, 2018”
me, i think it's over save for what i'd quoted on cass's last diary by the deep adaptaion scientist/philosopher.
I remember that one!
It was an interesting diary, full of useful facts.
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
heh;
and colorful graphics, too!
@MrWebster My question is: bunkers
My question is: bunkers on the planet, or a space station? Or maybe they'll all follow Elon Musk to the moon.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I obviously haven't
I obviously haven't been listening often enough to Musk et al; I thought it was the Moon they were trying to get to, not Mars. It's all so stupid that I have a hard time, sometimes, wasting my heartbeats listening to them.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Nice work, Cassi.
And an interesting piece. It seems to me that, in addition to what else we might do, we need to jump hard on quitting fossil fuels, and I mean cold turkey, whatever the cost. I'm pretty sure this means abandoning capitalism and rethinking most everything - but it's what we're going to have to do for humankind to have any kind of chance for a future. We probably won't do this for all the usual reasons, and if we don't, it seems to me we're doomed. So thanks to all the greedy pigs who have run civilization into a ditch. I'm hoping karma catches up to every last one of them.
Thanks again, brother for all you do.
We do.
I'm still waiting for someone to propose this:
1) Have the government create a car company.
2) The car company will produce enough veggie-oil-burning and electric vehicles to replace all the fossil-burning ones.
3) Offer to exchange fossil-burning vehicles for alternative vehicles free of charge.
4) At some point shut off all the gas pumps.
The emergence of such a proposal would at least be a sign that someone is serious about climate change mitigation.
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
Create a car company?
Heck, here in WA I was at an event for the carbon fee initiative and I couldn’t even get the panjandrums in attendance (including Democratic governor and climate activist Jay Inslee) to see that getting low income people into used EVs was going to take a lot more than a few million bucks handed out by a panel of democratic cronies. The legislature values my used $12.5K 2015 Leaf at $22.5K for car tab purposes, so even if someone managed to get such a low end vehicle and take advantage of $0.90 mpg equivalent charging at home (another big if when the city of Seattle has outsourced charging stations to profit making entities) they would still be nickled and dimed to death.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
as to your
proposal, a few Qs: what sort of veggie oil? one might assume using farm land for some veggies? as to electric cars, bill mckibben recently recommended 'replacing our gas-guzzling SUVs with...electric SUVs. where does the electricity for plug-in cars come from?
i'd also mention once again that the US military has the huuugest carbon footprint on the planet, over a thousand bases to boot. have we ever heard mcKibben or klein say 'stop war, close the bases, quit buying shit you don't require to live simply? or even 'increase funding for public transportation' years ago? well, no; their funding organization wouldn't much like that, eh? ; )
and by 'the government', do you mean the amerikan government or 'all governments'? one of obomba's feints iirc was using biofuels in the military; that lasted for one shake of a lamb's tail. but biofuels are horrid for the planet. the REDD capitalist fix meant cut down the amazon and other forests to plant...i dunno, switch grass? and corn ethanol is even a more hideous proposition. mono-crops, chemical fertilizers, pesticides, all GMO, disappearing and poisoned acquifirs and all.
as to 'humanity on the brink of extinction', how many have already died from climate chaos? how many other species have? a hella lot, but few consider them in the climate math. we've had exactly four butterflies here this year, although some of the bee pollinators finally came back, bless their wee hearts. now i wouldn't mind one bit if the spiders could be zapped off the planet, myownself. ; )
jeez louise,
i hadn't meant to be the dreaded 'thread killer'. from da wiki: a bit of a dodge, but nonetheless:
"Electric cars have several benefits over conventional internal combustion engine automobiles, including a significant reduction of local air pollution, as they do not directly emit pollutants such as particulates (soot), volatile organic compounds, hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, ozone, lead, and various oxides of nitrogen.
Depending on the production process and the source of the electricity to charge the vehicle, emissions may be partly shifted from cities to the material transportation, production plants and generation plants.[1] The amount of carbon dioxide emitted depends on the emissions of the electricity source, and the efficiency of the vehicle. For electricity from the grid, the emissions vary significantly depending on your region, the availability of renewable sources and the efficiency of the fossil fuel-based generation used."
nuttin' on the external costs of the batteries; some say 'resource wars', others argue: 'no way; other possibilities exist'. yeah, down the road...
@OPOL The key here, it seems to
The key here, it seems to me, is getting the power out of the hands of those who currently hold it, otherwise nothing can be done.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
James Lovelock, mr gaia theory, says...
from The Vanishing Face of Gaia
damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation
Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook
then there's this:
This is the operative sentence
But this is true of all of us, even the enlightened ones. 350.org starts with the wrong premise. It must be 270.org. It presupposes a linear climate model where we can warm it just a little and then stop safely. We have no proof that any other epoch other than the Holocene can support a human civilization. In fact we have good reason to believe that the Holocene was the enabler to large civilizations that could support its people with open agriculture.
The only solution is to get back to the Holocene, which means to restore the state of the planet. This is a tall order because climate change appears to be a non-conservative process, from the meaning in physics. All of the really good climate scientists agree that we need to get the CO2 level down to 270 ppm or less. And then we need to restore the ice.That's why many, such as Peter Wadhams, are suggesting geoengineering. The longer we take to do restore the planet's state, the more irreversible physical changes will happen. I would prefer to get free CO2 down to 250ppm and let the planet cool. But I have no proof either way.
The good news is that we can sequester all of the excess CO2. The bad news is that we will not attempt it until those who run the planet realize that this is the end game. At that point we have to look at the project, and the timing and see whether we need geoengineering or not. Also we have to consider that the the oceans and the land have absorbed some of the extra CO2. As we reduce the CO2 in the atmosphere the oceans will probably transfer their excess back into the atmosphere (any chemists here?). We have a lot of CO2 to remove, a number around 1000 gigatons, and it will be very expensive. At that point the project of going to zero current emissions can be calculated as to timing and cost. But that is secondary, we really have to sequester carbon at a fast rate and very soon.
Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.
I agree
I think we are stuck with it. Even though it is dangerous and unpredictable.
In my comment below I mentioned how it got up to 120 degrees F. That's not official because it is a reading taken in direct sunlight. However, if you are in direct sunlight, it is 120 degrees shining down on you. Because of those temps I am losing some of my yankee trees. My silver maple looks really stressed and died back during the extreme heat. My point is, that 120 degrees will cause stuff to die off here. We need to bring those temps back down.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
The oceans have absorbed enormous amounts of CO2
There do appear to be technologies that, combined with a renewable source of electricity (solar and wind, mainly), would allow us sequester CO2, more or less indefinitely. There's also promise of being able to crack CO2 electrolytically, creating methanol or other alcohols that could serve as energy storage (e.g., for storing surplus solar during peak production) and fuels for combustion-based technology -- but that's not going to take any CO2 out of the atmosphere. Regardless, we're going to need to pull a LOT of CO2 out of the air, because it will just bubble back out of the ocean for decades, if not centuries.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
@The Wizard It's not true of all of
It's not true of all of us. I don't think many people here are spellbound and going to realize at the last minute that we're in deep shit. Most of us are Cassandras, trapped in a world that doesn't want to hear our warnings.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@The Wizard Agree with you on the
Agree with you on the numbers. However, it's clear that the powerful have no interest of even attaining and keeping to 350.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
This is so frickin grim
I believe they are already geoengineering, both in the skies and the oceans. But I don't think they are doing it to actually help the climate situation. They are doing it to create an illusion of "not really that bad." Some probably actually believe they are solving the climate crisis. Earlier in the year parts of the mid-Atlantic (not talking about north Atlantic ice meltwater) were cooler than last year. How did that happen? I believe April was artificially cooler as well as most of the summer months in Texas. Every day out working I witnessed the streaky cloud cover. One day in July "they" decided not to bother and with clear skies it soared up to 120 degrees F. The next day the mysterious cloud cover was back.
It is true that the jet stream has been bringing us colder temps in Texas this month. But yesterday, riding to Dallas, I was amazed at the streaked cloud-covered sky. A couple of big airports here, so lots of air traffic. But yesterday should have been a much warmer day.
This can be taken as an old woman's conjecture. I read Weather Underground pretty much every day. Now I am watching this map as well: https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/overlay=precip_...
Look at the Gulf just off the coast of Texas. What's happening there?
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
If anyone were geoengineering the weather
the meteorologists would be detecting it. They would all have to be in on the con. It isn't happening.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
The answer given is that
They have been forced to sign gag order agreements.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
yeah.
the 10,000 meteorologists in the US, including the independent researchers at both public and private universities, all received visits from humorless sunglassed men wearing skinny black ties, who put a secret, classified judicial/intelligence contract down on their desks and told them that in 30 seconds either their signature or their brains would be on the paper.
and also all of the other meteorologists, all over the world.
this is not reality.
what next, chemtrails?
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
BTW, there's a link in a comment above to an
article that cites 2 actual experiments that might be underway in the US:
You will note that no conspiracies are involved -- it's public science, being publicized.
Whether those experiments have begun, and whether the Tucson one is affecting the skies in Texas, is something I can't tell you, but you can probably google and find out.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Guess I am open to the idea of many conspiracy theories . . .
Most of them are not movie mystical, but merely the outgrowth of arrogance and greed.
My first introduction was as a geeky Linux teacher when I realized that Microsoft was conspiring to keep us silent. There is plenty of documentation for that, but still, the general public was unaware or unbelieving of it.
And I see a big Ag conspiracy, particularly in the state of Texas involving the local ag extension agencies, Future Farmers of America, and possibly Bonnie's Plants. Growing local food is discouraged. That's motivated by the greed and big Ag's need to control the food supply.
Chemtrails. Heck yes. Although I think there is a more scientific term for it.
I don't swallow it all, hook, line and sinker. I view most ideas suspiciously. My own personal observations of skies and weather make me 90% sure that "something" is going on.
Oh . . . and I think there is a conspiracy to hide the explosion of Lyme Disease (since it originates as biological warfare).
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
you may be thinking
of this sort of chemtrail geonengineering. an erstwhile commenter/author at the café finally skedaddled as i simply couldn't believe in this sort of weaponized conspiracy. i did engage in too much due diligence and watched all the videos he'd and websites he'd bring as "proof", and he finally went elsewhere.
i can certainly believe that chemtrails are planes downloading toxic chemicals that are too costly and dangerous to store (see: love canal, as a for instance), but as a weapon against nations? california skies seemed chemtrail rich a few years ago.
if there actually were chemtrails, I could believe they
were almost anything at all, but since there aren't -- since airplanes have been generating condensation contrails pretty much since the advent of the monoplane, and nobody decided to get all weird about it until about 20 years ago ... well, no.
i remember a few years back, somebody posted a youtube video of a woman going nuts because she was certain that the rainbow pattern in the spray from her hose was caused by those chemicals that the evildoers are spraying down on us from on high. oy, veh indeed.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
from the videos i've
seen, what are billed as chemtrails don't really resemble condensation trails visually, but that's just an opinion, not a fact. ; )
it was a link in my
via the ect group from May (and geoengineeringmonitor.org) my (albeit) lengthy report on geoengineering.
i know how biased i am, but i wish that all on this thread who believe that geoengineering is remotely part of a fix would read it. not only the inherent dangers, but the fact sheets on offer re:
•Stratospheric Aerosol Injection
•Carbon Capture and Storage
•Carbon Capture, Use and Storage
•Bioenergy w/ Carbon Capture & Storage
•Direct Air Capture
•Surface Albedo Modification
•Ocean Fertilization
•Marine Cloud Brightening
•Enhanced Weathering
•Photosynthesis Enhancement
•Artificial Upwelling
•Cirrus Cloud Thinning
•Microbubbles
•Biochar
well, anyway. upforestation? "the best day to plant a tree was thirty years ago; the second best day is...today." yeah, i'm a crank about it as i've been watching climate change before we even had a computer. ah, idiot i yam: i'd written a thing for either the local free press or regular montezuma county rag that it was an opportunity for global cooperation, not competition (food and water as weapons).
"if some crops couldn't be grown in the midwest/corn belt, russia could grow them in their northern cooler climes." and pie in the sky messages like that. oy...and veh. what a goofball.
on edit: i should have mentioned cass's essay linked in his OP may have been equally worthy, but the password caused me to shy away from reading it.
Northern climates don't have the soil for midwestern crops
But maybe we need to stop growing many of them anyway.
Did you see this article in resilience.org?
https://www.resilience.org/stories/2018-09-26/one-size-fits-none-excerpt/
It is an excerpt from what appears to be an excellent book on changing the way we farm. The author grew up on a ranch in South Dakota (my mom is from SD and her brothers were mostly farmers there).
Seems to me that we all need to keep talking about it and come up with local plans. Hopefully, by a miracle, national and international plans will emerge as well. Personally, I plan to contact a semi-local sustainable gardening expert in hopes we can work together on helping people grow local food. Part of this means abandoning traditional gardening methods and "master gardener" bullshit. Gardening for folks who don't know much about gardening, nor have time for extensive tending.
So I digress.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
If Russia's north is anything like Canada's north,
the "soil" is thin and lacking. The whole place was stripped by glaciers, and has been too cold since then to replenish.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
so different crops
Everywhere...we need to grow different crops. Greenhouses. Restoring the desert ... In northern climates as well.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
yes, my wording
was sloppy; i'd meant cooler northern climes, like russia's, not northern russia, which borders the arctic circle. and is likely as you say, bare and rocky tundra. but this was jeez, ten or twelve years ago my 'crisis as opportunity' for global cooperation.
The scariest thing is the methane clathrate bomb going off.
Some interesting ideas here: https://www.drawdown.org/
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Drawdown
I like this concept. I am personally most interested in afforestation and regenerative agriculture.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
This attempt to cut-and-paste Trump into everything
is pathetic; it's amounting, at this point, to a punch line. I guess the point is to pretend that racism, sexism, xenophobia, war, the danger of nuclear war, pollution, and environmental catastrophe all came our way sometime between November 2016 and January 2017--or that somehow these things will be mitigated if Trump is no longer in office.
Far as I can tell, dying of starvation because the planet no longer produces enough food to feed me will work the same regardless of Trump.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver