The Dreaded Site Meta #2

In the past couple of weeks, a lot of folks have landed here at the site and we are very much scrambling to keep up. Many of the systems that we had in place that worked with a small site are less than optimal for the much larger site that we have become. We very much wish to keep the character and "feel" of the site as it was - which was created by a couple of basic premises, some general understandings and a trust between members that came from long associations and considerable interaction.

We've seen some postings in the last week or so that indicate that we have not adequately communicated all the understanding that folks need to reproduce the cool little site we had as a larger community. These meta postings are an attempt to gently bring everybody into a similar orientation on some basic things. If you see something that you wrote reflected in this, the intention isn't to call out or shame anyone, it is purely informational.

What is this site about?

This site is a non-partisan site. It does not endorse any candidate. This site is issues-oriented and is about the interests of the 99%.

There are people here who support a number of different candidates and there are even some who think that participation in the elections is a total waste of time and effort. Those views are all welcome here.

We have a diversity of opinion and we like it that way. What we are working toward is agreement and action on the 99%'s agenda - not which candidate wins the swimsuit competition. Whichever candidate sweeps the pageant, there will need to be considerable activism to compel them to act in the interests of the 99%. That is what we must prepare for even while we discuss the relative merits and disastrous horrors presented by the various candidates on parade.

A focus on the issues will allow us to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Meanwhile, informed, polite discussion of candidates and issues is welcome here.

Advocacy for candidates is fine, too, with a caveat.

The caveat is that advocacy of candidates cannot be couched so as to state or even appear that it is the site's policy or purpose.

There have been some suggestions, which frankly took some of us aback, that some people would like to use this site as a launching pad for twitter storm attacks on some candidates as a means to help do the dirty work of a particular campaign.

Please, no.

We hope to build the reputation of this site as a place to go for quality writing, discussion, news, analysis and a welcoming community of people who want to work positively for change.

We have no desire to become a purveyor of political sleaze. Frankly, there's plenty of that out there already and not much of what we're trying to build.

Who speaks for the site?

The caveat above begs the question of who does set the site's policy and purpose.

This site has two admins and a few moderators (see this housekeeping post for info) who discuss and decide matters of policy and site direction. This discussion and decision is obviously not done in isolation. The basic direction of the site and many of the decisions about its policies have been worked out over a long period of time with the input and general consensus of a small community of people.

I am one of the admins. The other admin, JtC is the originator and prime mover of the c99p site. I have two voices here, the one that I am using in this meta series is the editorial voice of the site, meaning that what I am writing here reflects the consensus of the admins and moderators.

Usually when I write something here, it only reflects my personal view, even if what I write appears on the front page of the site.

As an aside, the site currently has two major divisions, the Front Page and the Community Content page. Currently, the Community Content page has the Open Threads and posts by community members. The Front Page carries some of the regular series that appear here and posts that we feel are, or should be of interest to the general public. There are several Front Page writers - gjohnsit, Cassiodorus, JayRaye, OPOL, Robyn, and me, joe shikspack. We frequently promote the good work of other writers to the Front Page and will undoubtedly add to the numbers of Front Page writers over time.

If at some time the site wishes to take a position on an issue in a posting to the Front Page, we will clearly indicate that it is an editorial. Otherwise all work on the Front Page should be understood to reflect the views of the author, not necessarily the site.

This is your community, help it grow and prosper.

There are a number of ways of looking at a community website like C99.

At one level, it's just like any other website. A few people keep the machinery going and administer things. A few people have to be responsible for its content. There are people that have to answer inquiries or deal with (copyright) take-down notices from officialdom.

Because of this, the admins reserve the right to remove anything posted to the site that is in violation of copyright or any other law as well as what we view as community standards and material that could harm the reputation of the site.

As an aside, we will probably discuss fair use issues in another meta diary. Until then please use good judgement in quote length and providing proper links and citations and take special care with making sure that the images that you post are either your own, from a source that identifies them as a share alike license (and you adhere to the terms they set) or are in the public domain.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming

This site consists of the platform (the technical backend) and platform processes (admin, moderation) and, most importantly, the reason that those things exist, the content and community.

This site contains content created by you and me and lots of other people who are interested in left/progressive politics and issues. As the message at the bottom of every page on the site says, all of your original work or opinions posted here are yours. The content and the interactions that occur through engaging in commenting and other connections as well, create a community.

The community is an intangible thing, but it is the most important thing about a site. Every community has a character, common experiences, a set of relations, a sense of purpose, a shared space (that transcends servers and fibers) and a reputation, among other things. That is the property of the people who create the community and breathe it into being every day.

Thanks for reading, thanks for participating and please enjoy the site and the community.

Previous posts in the The Dreaded Site Meta series:

The Dreaded Site Meta #1

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

jiordan's picture

so I hope the "Dreaded" part is ironic and not the actual consensus of most of the members here. Of course, I also enjoy meta, and bouncing around to different topics all day to see what other people are pondering/writing about. This place is comfortable to me in a way that the GOS never was and I believe that's largely due to the initial founders intent and integrity. I hope it remains so throughout its growing pains and that us n00bs scrambling onboard the SS 99 don't swamp it in the process of eagerly joining in.

Thanks for all the work you guys do and THANK YOU for this place to call home.

up
0 users have voted.
joe shikspack's picture

everybody needs a little irony in their diet. Smile

thank you for being here and enjoying the meta.

up
0 users have voted.
whyvee's picture

total irony. I read this in a online magazine some time back. Justin Hayward (for those youngsters out there-the lead vocalist for the Moody Blues) lived for a short time in Italy. He went into a small karaoke bar in Italy and for fun got up to sing the song "My Funny Valentine." He said no one recognized him, and he thought he had done a really great rendition of the song and was pretty happy with the response. He lost to an Italian guy who sang "Nights in White Satin." Now that is irony!!!

up
0 users have voted.
joe shikspack's picture

thanks for the irony supplement. Smile

up
0 users have voted.
whyvee's picture

was just a little "rusty."

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

I always liked the Moody Blues. Smile

up
0 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Long ago--maybe '74 or so?--I ended up in a Metrorail car on the DC-NYC run next to either the manager or a major PR guy for the Moody Blues (name lost in the mists). He said that most of the band now had families and he was having a hard time pulling them out on tours away from home. The best part was the pack of photos he whipped out to show me of his family and band members'. (again, I recall nothing but a sense of the universe smiling on me for a special moment; I was a big fan).

Love the story of the karaoke bar.

up
0 users have voted.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

thanatokephaloides's picture

He lost to an Italian guy who sang "Nights in White Satin." Now that is irony!!!

Ranks right up there with a news story I read as a kid: Sir Robert Alexander Watson-Watt, the inventor of radar, got nailed for speeding by a Canadian police officer using a radar gun.

He wrote a poem about it, called Rough Justice:

Pity Sir Robert Watson-Watt,

strange target of this radar plot

And thus, with others I can mention,

the victim of his own invention.

His magical all-seeing eye

enabled cloud-bound planes to fly

but now by some ironic twist

it spots the speeding motorist

and bites, no doubt with legal wit,

the hand that once created it.

source

up
0 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

whyvee's picture

that piece of irony!

up
0 users have voted.
PastorAgnostic's picture

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

I was thinking the same thing and I am a moderator here too. LOL

The way Joe writes makes these meta things really meaty and tasty too. Good

up
0 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

joe shikspack's picture

up
0 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

as well, jiordan.

It good to see you again, and that handsome 'pup.'

(Your avatar always brings a smile to my face, 'cause all of our fur babies are/have been just as comfy on the furniture, as your fellow appears to be.)

Wink

(Music City) Mollie at C99P & DKos
elinkarlsson@WordPress


"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."--Japanese Proverb

"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown

up
0 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

essay, Joe!

Couldn't have been written better, IMO.

Have a good one!

(Music City) Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress


"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."--Japanese Proverb

"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown

Screenshot Of 'Barabas' -- Dual Photo From WP With Caption.png

Visit Us At Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)

up
0 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

joe shikspack's picture

up
0 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

when I saw that attack dog suggestion...

Course the paranoia in my head immediately began thinking, "This is an attempt to wreck the site right as we get popular."

Hence why I decided to stay the hell out of that completely. Smile

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

joe shikspack's picture

yep, that's why we are making it clear as can be that attack politics is absolutely not within community standards on this site.

up
0 users have voted.
lunachickie's picture

There is one yuuuuge advantage of having spent so much time at GOS over the years: many here are already well-versed in the sneaky ways that those who would divide us utilize, particularly when it comes to 'attack dog politics'.

Anyone paying attention lately knows that the dirty will surely get worse, joe--I wonder if, in our vigilance, we should also maybe try hard not to lash out publicly--say, against an obvious plant that a half dozen of us grok immediately on their first post--and just let it get handled 'behind the scenes'? That way, you don't end up in sub-meta la-la land in later-posted discussions over "was s/he or wasn't s/he an Official Plant"--seems to me that provides another layer of "dividing" potential.

(does that make sense?)

up
0 users have voted.
joe shikspack's picture

if you spot an obvious plant, whether it is a rhododendron or a bromeliad, please contact the admins. we and the mods read as broadly as we can, but you may see something before we do.

up
0 users have voted.
PastorAgnostic's picture

This place would be fertile soil for some of those Hillarians who have destroyed that other site. the fertilizer they are spewing is unreadable.

up
0 users have voted.
lunachickie's picture

it's what they did to dk, albeit on a larger scale. I guess what I'm saying/asking is that it's okay to take something like that to an admin, rather than try and "publicly" make such accusation or innuendo. Cuz you might not be right about it.

To be clear, I'm not saying we have to all be hyper-vigilant, either. Usually such folk out themselves in short order anyway--and there are savvy names on the admin list I've seen here somewhere. We're in good hands Smile

up
0 users have voted.

this site has grown quickly beyond our ability to monitor every comment so we will rely, to a great extent, on the members to inform us of any incidences.

We have been involved in deep discussion about moderation details in the last few days and we'll be posting a link very soon that will explain proper protocol to contact the moderators/admins. Basically there will be two ways to contact us, one by using the "Contact Us" link in the header banner at the top of the page. The other being sending the moderator/admin group a Private Message by typing "moderator" (without the quotes) into the "To" field of a Private Message and it will send a PM to all mods/admins.

up
0 users have voted.

at least not to the familiar name who has a post up now, pushing a Twitter-bomb, to be generated from here, for a certain candidate.

Simpler language needed, perhaps?

up
0 users have voted.
Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

to recognize when they are being lied to and BS'd by a candidate or party and to make their best selection to advance the interests of the 99%.

I get that you don't want this to be a rah, rah site but policy leads directly to politics especially during an election time. I personally have a hard time divorcing the two. BUT even I was getting a bit fatigued about Bernie posts at TOP that focused solely on He's Our Guy! without going into why he's our guy. Is that what you're saying?

If I cross the line you don't want crossed, please feel free to go right to the diary or comment and say "Now this is what I'm talking about", I won't be mad or embarrassed.

up
0 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

joe shikspack's picture

yes we'd like it from a quality perspective if postings advocating a candidate focused on policy and issues in explaining support for candidates. but, what we're saying is that you're free to say a candidate is your guy, but don't say that he's the site's guy.

more to the point, when someone suggests that we should use the site's resources to organize a hit campaign on a candidate in order to support another candidate, they are making an implicit statement about the site.

it's a nuanced thing. it may seem like subtle nuance but we see a difference between an individual writing a post, or even a few hundred individuals writing posts of their own construction and logic in support of a candidate, and, a group of individuals creating an organized, scheduled, managed information campaign in support of a candidate.

does that help?

up
0 users have voted.
Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

On first reading I was afraid that eggs were being scattered to avoid walking on, but I see that is not the case. You are telling cats that want to be herded that there is no round-up. I actually prefer that. Herds lead to swarms and groupthink. I knew there was a reason I was attracted to this place.

up
0 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Not in every single thing, but overall a diverse group with diverse interests pursuing diverse goals that converge under the overarching progressive theme of advancing the 99% and the greater good.

up
0 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

I like knowing I can be who I am here - openly. I enjoy reading and interacting with the people who migrated here. Gentle souls looking for ways to encourage and/or enact change. I've been doing that my whole life. The community I feel here is pretty astounding.

up
0 users have voted.

"When will our conscience's grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?" Eleanor Roosevelt

"The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." Socrates (469-399 BC)

Lookout's picture

Hello all,

I just joined yesterday. Sometime last week I was reading your thoughts about the movement, where it goes, and the relationship to this site. Someone said something to the effect of ...progress for the people and the planet. That's what pulled me into the site. I've been involved with the movement for over 40 years working for the health of the planet and its people.

I was lucky to attend a Joan Baez concert last night in Birmingham. She told a story of being in the 16th Ave Church with Dr King (one of three white folks). Outside the white citizens council was marching in protest. Martin told the crowd "If you can't love those white folks out there too, we don't really have a movement."

Wow. What love. I find I can go without hate, but I've still got a lot of work to do to love my enemy.

I'm working on a piece about the media I hope to post this week. In the meantime I look forward to your ideas.

I'm hoping we march forward into spring filling the air with hope and little d democracy!

up
0 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

gulfgal98's picture

up
0 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

joe shikspack's picture

thanks for joining, we'll be looking forward to your post.

up
0 users have voted.
gendjinn's picture

I get the importance of discussion and issues. And there are plenty of places like that on the nets.

If this place is not about identifying and promoting true progressive, left-wing voices and candidates then my time is wasted here.

Our biosphere is under all out attack, anything less than every wo/man to the breaches risks the loss of everything.

up
0 users have voted.
Muddy Boots's picture

Maybe as this place evolves it will do some of that, but there needs to be a settling and expressing and sharing first. I am not an admin and have no power beyond my comments, but I never thought this was an election site, and if you were to use it as such it would suck as well as destroy what it actually is. Meanwhie you can always link to actual election sites and I would like to see candidates and issues discussed here. Daily Kos wedded itself to the Democratic Party, and its incumbents in particular, and that is why this place suddenly expanded just a few weeks ago.

Does that make sense? Please share your aspirations, inspirations but tread a little gently with the expectations. Point the way, but don't shove. The times are indeed urgent, but the need is for caring and choices and explanations to expand understanding. This is what I hope this place can facilitate.

up
0 users have voted.

"If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back" - Regina Brett

gendjinn's picture

Not telling anyone or this site to be anything but what they want to be. I'm just relaying the perspective that I'm about taking action, not just talking about issues.

None of which dismisses or diminishes the value of the goals as stated of this site.

up
0 users have voted.
joe shikspack's picture

you should take action. action is needed.

but if you can't save the world yourself, some talking is going to be needed to get people on the same page. when the people understand their interests and are aligned in solidarity is when action is most effective. (see my other response to you in this thread)

up
0 users have voted.
gendjinn's picture

The pitfall of DK was the owner decided to cash into the political system and throw his weight behind a particular candidate.

I would advocate that the membership of the site/community be consulted in decisions about endorsements or not, rather than the authoritarian situation elsewhere.

up
0 users have voted.
Lisa Lockwood's picture

to mean, sure, if you want to advocate for a candidate by writing a blog post here, that's not a problem. It will be displayed on the Community Content page/stream, just like everyone's posts. If readers here are interested, they're going to read/comment/rec etc. and discuss what you have to say. As long as you don't then run around sharing it as a "C99' supports Bernie sort of thing. But nothing wrong with advocacy and discussion, etc.
This just isn't a Bernie for President website. It's more diverse, and (as I see it) a much bigger tent Wink
Hope that I've got it right?

up
0 users have voted.

"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~

hecate's picture

disappeared up the bunghole of candidate advocacy. The sitemeisters here are disinclined to recede into the same orifice. To, I think, their credit.

up
0 users have voted.

is an important step before taking action -- and not just in election years either. Look at the work done to stop Keystone, for example -- by talking and educating themselves about the issue and the ramifications, people were able to take action. (The bottom falling out of oil prices also helped quite a bit, but watch out for the pipeline plans to make a comeback if oil prices go back up.) We educate ourselves on the issues, then go out and take action.

up
0 users have voted.

like putting the "Aim" bit in its proper place instead of Ready-Fire-Aim, no?

up
0 users have voted.

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

NAFTA provides for corporations to sue trade signatories for lost profits. This is precisely what TransCanada did in January to the tune of $15 billion. These same types of provisions are written into the TPP and TTIP.

It is clear that our entire social and political culture is drenched in death and destruction in many creative and engaging ways.

Is this site going to focus primarily on "education?" Will this site offer insights into and put the spotlight on effective activist campaigns?

up
0 users have voted.
joe shikspack's picture

Will this site offer insights into and put the spotlight on effective activist campaigns?

sure! if you see one write a post about it.

if you, for example, want to do a study and analyze the effectiveness of various activist campaigns, highlighting the tactics that worked, etc., that would be a major service to all activists.

take your talents and creativity where your interests lead you!

in the evening blues series, i frequently post material about various protest actions and campaigns, so you may find items of interest there.

up
0 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

electing politicians process. We're tired of the two party duopoly, the lesser evil approach to government and want to explore other options to address crucial issues. Tying everything to the election process tends to prevent open discussion of other alternatives.

up
0 users have voted.
gendjinn's picture

Then you won't find an opponent in me.

However, we are trapped in the system and our options are Luther or Erasmus. I prefer being both until we can get a better system.

up
0 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

That's what we're here to discuss among many other things. Personally, I like testing the boundaries and challenging assumptions. Most of the people on this site are Bernie supporters and democratic party supporters in varying degrees. Some of us will challenge that which we couldn't do on Daily Kos. Site management says they don't want an echo chamber, so everyone should just let it all hang out.

up
0 users have voted.
prfb's picture

Haven't heard THAT one for a while!

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

It is my contention that real change begins first with social movements which is why issues and policy perspectives are important. Politicians, in general, are the guardians of the establishment and the status quo. Politicians only react to ground up change when a social movement reaches a critical mass and even then it is difficult to effect change. Focusing heavily on elections without the underlying policy issues can be a wasted effort. Partisan politics creates barriers to change. Educating people about the issues and focusing them on what needs to be changed will have longer term benefit. The people have to demand the change first before the politicians will do much to effect it.

This is strictly my personal philosophy based upon my own experiences with Occupy and a weekly Peace vigil. I have learned from both experiences that people from different backgrounds can find commonality on many things but have been divided by labels and partisanship. It is my personal hope to try to break those barriers down. A site like this helps educate me to become a better advocate for these issues.

I hope my explanation is not too long winded or confusing.

up
0 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

triv33's picture

It seems to me just from my casual reading of faceboob comments, that people are so grossly ill-informed on issues, policies, and just about everything that actually does affect their daily lives, that the focus needs to be there. I've seen far too many rah-rah comments on both sides that have no real thought or reason behind them. Nothing will change without a large social movement, without an informed public. Our media fails us, it's up to us now.

up
0 users have voted.

I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

riverlover's picture

with that if we build them, natural leaders will come?

up
0 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

gulfgal98's picture

finding ways to find common ground on issues that affect us all. The divisive social issues can be addressed separately. But in order to build what I call a social movement, we have to get as many people on the same page as possible. That was the beauty of the Occupy movement and their 99% slogan. No movement succeeds immediately, but one that has significant buy off will eventually put pressure on the gate keepers.

I have learned with the Peace vigil, that some of our best conversations have been with those who claim to be conservative. As we talk it through, we start finding common ground. IMHO, the key is to treat everyone up front as having a valid view. Then you work from that standpoint to find the common ground. Finally and hopefully, you make an ally. I know it sounds hippie dippy, but in one on one conversations, it works most of the time.

I really believe the old "drawing lines in the sand" when dealing with other citizens works to the advantage of the establishment/oligarchs. And for me, that is the real enemy.

up
0 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

asterisk's picture

I just found out about this place and already feel more at home here than TOP. Most conservatives I know are not all evil despite the rhetoric against them elsewhere. None of them deserve to lose their healthcare the way the fearless leader at another site has claimed. Healthcare is a human right.

Some conservatives are even kind and thoughtful, and many 'disagreements' hinge on semantics. If we talk and listen with courtesy we can find effective solutions to a lot of our problems.

Thank you for hosting this site. I participated in DK several years ago but got tired of the meta wars, single-party advocacy, and purges of some people who I had come to like. I left in good standing but have long since forgotten my old password to DK. Last spring I wanted to fight Trump and started lurking at DK. The extreme nastiness there was clearly interfering with organizing to address the serious problems that face this country and the world.

I logged into DK right after the Tweeting Narcissist won. We all need to figure out what to do to save as much as possible from the coming wreckage. Suggestions I made at DK about opposing some horrific Cabinet picks were met with rehashes of the primary wars. I hope to find people here who care about issues that affect peoples lives and the environment. I want to join a team that is trying to protect the advances we have made and to make things better.

up
0 users have voted.
hecate's picture

can advocate for candidates. It's just that the site is not going to do that. I personally am generally more interested in what individuals have to say. Rather than sites.

up
0 users have voted.
joe shikspack's picture

the point, i guess depends on who you see as being the power in the system.

if you believe that the power rests in elected officials and bureaucrats, then you will see the point of activism as being the election of the best politicians.

if you believe that the power rests in the people, they you will want to organize amongst the people, participate in efforts to promote education, information dissemination, mutual understandings and political solidarity.

we are living in a time and culture where much of the public has been diseducated, deskilled and told to shut up and let the technocrats take care of things - active citizenship has been discouraged. i submit that efforts to include, educate and empower our fellow citizens is more important than electing the next president. ideally, we could do both.

up
0 users have voted.
gendjinn's picture

It's hard to escape the fact that elected and appointed do have the power. The massive Iraq war protests were ignored by those with the power and they plowed ahead.

I respect where you are coming from, we agree on much.

I would submit that education and elections are synergistically intertwined.

I would like to engage in a longer response but I must away to a 5 year old's birthday party. Hence the pith.

up
0 users have voted.
joe shikspack's picture

i would say that elected and appointed do have power, but that is not the power, which as some damned piece of paper says derives from the consent of the governed.

the elected and appointed as you point out wield more power than is granted to them because the people are disunited, disengaged, disenfranchised and disempowered.

ultimately, the people have the power to stop the wars and all of the other crap that the government of the 1% is doing by withdrawing their consent to be governed. some of us detect indications that consent is shrinking. that could be an ugly show without efforts to educate and create solidarity.

up
0 users have voted.
gendjinn's picture

And more than delighted to put shoulder to wheel to push that one forward.

There certainly are major challenges with endorsing candidates - Tester, Webb, Clinton for example.

I want to leverage the crowd synergy of my progressive peers - each contribute a little, each receive a lot! To identify & surface articles, issues, discussions, ideas, trends, candidates, shenanigans. I'm not interested in the FP clickbait that DK has become - nor the human interest waffle drive time NPR has largely become (at least in the Bay Area & thankfully there's Pacifica).

When I was in undergrad, last millennium, studying science I remember reading the climate change articles in journals and going "well that's that then, no dispute about the larger trends nor the cause." Things have only been accelerating over those 25 years. To the point where it's HAIR-ON-FIRE time. So I'm looking for a place where I can invest my energy in peaceful change, because having grown up in Ireland and been a student of revolutions throughout history, the alternate is always far, far, far worse.

up
0 users have voted.
hecate's picture

it is individual human beings who always have the power. If the individuals who had volunteered to become serial killers for the United States military had declined to deploy to Iraq, but instead put down their guns and gone home to their families, there never would have been a war. Politicians, generals—they can call for war all they want. But without killers willing to pull the trigger, the war never happens.

up
0 users have voted.

People who defy our government have found themselves killed, blacklisted, jailed, or disappeared. A lot of individuals who may be the sole support of their family factor that in to how militant they will become.

Power is the end game.

up
0 users have voted.
gendjinn's picture

The Christmas truce in WW1, the football game. And how the generals had to rotate all of the units off the front, on both sides, to get the fighting started back up again after it.

While I have no time for the military I do believe that the country still must honour its commitment to those who have served in the armed forces. Most especially any of those that saw combat. I consider them victims also. There is a really interesting debate about choice, volition in a Freudian world that is much better had over beer/wine and food! Suffice to say my view is much informed by the Troubles and how the span of psychological traumas we inflict upon our children constrains choice to elimination in conflict situations.

up
0 users have voted.
LeChienHarry's picture

Well said. I like the idea that we as contributors can propose ideas or pose questions which may not be what the herd expects. But, be prepared to back it up.

That to me is freedom of expression with responsibility.

Count me among those who like your Meta essays (another word I like) and keep them coming. We n00bs need them.

Thank you.

up
0 users have voted.

You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.

Muddy Boots's picture

I could not have asked for anything other than what is evolving here. The outlines so far are spot on. Please don't rush things too much - take your time and use a light touch. MUCH appreciation for all who tend the cogs and wheels here.

up
0 users have voted.

"If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back" - Regina Brett

joe shikspack's picture

up
0 users have voted.

even a group of two, who have to 'talk about the relationship'.

I am very glad to see you covering these issues today, Joe.

People who want to jump right into Bernie advocacy can go to the 'Kossacks for Bernie' Reddit, which links to other Bernie action sites.

Good work, thanks!

up
0 users have voted.
Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

and Robert Scheer that directly addresses the meta purpose of this site AFAIK - talking about how it happened that the Party of the people, the Democrats, has turned away from labor and the 99%. Naturally and organically, that discussion veered into the incredible philosophical differences between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders and not surprisingly, the two people having the discussion as well as myself are led to the conclusion that Bernie Sanders would be a better candidate and advocate for the 99%.

Is that essay and discussion appropriate for this site or has it crossed some line into "Bernie advocacy"?

up
0 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

that essay has been promoted to the front page.

up
0 users have voted.
Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

Thank you JtC, I am very proud to be promoted.

up
0 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

joe shikspack's picture

that's far better than the answer i was working on. Smile

up
0 users have voted.
Dhyerwolf's picture

but individuals posting on the site are more than welcome to advocate for candidates.

up
0 users have voted.
LeChienHarry's picture

that the two sites - caucus99percent, and /r/kossacks_for_sanders, complement each other, and I expect there will be quite a bit of cross-posting. There is a difference though: if I want to wax on about some beautiful thing in nature, and want to illustrate with music, I will do that here.

If I want to get out my pom poms, I'll go over to Reddit. They are also doing a great job of looking down ballot even at the district level. So GoTV.

We need time to collect our thoughts and reflect, and we need to act, both.

Thanks again.

up
0 users have voted.

You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.

Miep's picture

Is that people who want to advocate for a candidate can talk about that here, along with other issues, but don't use this place as a staging platform for such political advocacy. Don't try to make the blog be about any one candidate. Don't get the idea that you have the authority to try to silence people supporting other candidates.

Right now there is a lot going on here about Sanders because Sanders supporters are being intimidated at DK, but that shouldn't mean supporters of other candidates should feel intimidated about discussing these candidates. We should allow space for discussion and not get caught up into trying to manipulate public perception by trying to silence honest debate.

I'm not sure how that flies with candidates who are decidedly non-leftist, but I personally think honest debate kind of trumps political party tagging. I don't know how the people who started this place would feel about it if somebody showed up from, say, Dandelion Salad talking about how he would vote for Trump over Clinton. Would that be considered verboten?

up
0 users have voted.

Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

Even those of us that have been here since the beginning are benefitting from the meta. We've slowly blended our understandings over time, much of it unspoken. Having it clearly laid out is helpful. You know me. bullets and lists... Thanks for putting these out.

up
0 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

joe shikspack's picture

up
0 users have voted.

Is there anyway to know which users have voted for a particular comment? I always find that interesting.

up
0 users have voted.
Pariah Dog's picture

I was wondering the same thing.

up
0 users have voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

joe shikspack's picture

it's interesting, but we saw at top (the other place) that it had a downside, so during the discussions that lots of us had before this site came into existence we thought that tracking likes was probably not a great idea.

up
0 users have voted.
LeChienHarry's picture

Start putting names on votes, uprates, downrates, and gangs will follow. It's a human dynamic. (No link).

But I hope having seen the anonymous flagging storms, that admins will be watching and let folks know when things are heading into the pasture.

up
0 users have voted.

You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.

Miep's picture

Is sophisticated enough that I figured you probably did that intentionally. As well as making it not super-easy to find comment replies.

up
0 users have voted.

Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

It helps avoid the "herd mentality" prevalent on other sites -- while that's been more prevalent when it comes to downrating a comment, you can still get that in uprating as well. Everyone wants to be in the "Kool Kidz" category.

up
0 users have voted.

and even though we don't have a downrate (that could be implemented but we decided against it), an unpopular comment or essay will reflect any dislike or disagreement in the form of little to no uprates. It's an effective way to send a message without the negative aspect of a downvote.

up
0 users have voted.

that some sites are very adept at manipulating its users into tribalistic group behavior explicitly to enhance revenue clickbait page hits. Being able to view who voted on comments or essays promotes that behavior, in our humble opinion

up
0 users have voted.

You all have been very thoughtful about this place. It shows.

up
0 users have voted.

"When will our conscience's grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?" Eleanor Roosevelt

"The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." Socrates (469-399 BC)

I definitely understand the downsides associated with revealing voter identity and respect this policy and what is being attempted here with a fresh start, shall we say. For me knowing who is following me or liking my comments was a positive part of the online experience and helped build feelings of community and develop connections. Oftentimes I would reach out to someone by messsage who may not have commented on anything I said but frequently liked or approved of my comments. And vice versa. So not all bad.

up
0 users have voted.
Miep's picture

up
0 users have voted.

Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

mimi's picture

who voted my comments up (or down, which luckily isn't even an option here). The fact that you can't see that on this site is a great advantage and a progress. It prevents group and herd and tribal instincts going overboard, imo. If people don't agree with your comment, they will tell you that and even very gently so, and if they like your comment, they do too.

It's the best of both worlds. It makes living together and going along much easier, even if people disagree with each other.

up
0 users have voted.
kharma's picture

a site for people to freely discuss our ideas and provide consistent quality to be linked to from other sites. Thanks joe, jtc, gulfgal, dkmich and jayraye and all for your hard work and dedication to this lifeboat.

up
0 users have voted.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

joe shikspack's picture

up
0 users have voted.
mawnjilla's picture

thank you for clarifying!

up
0 users have voted.

bern baby bern disco inberno

joe shikspack's picture

and being on the bus, so to speak.

up
0 users have voted.
ZimInSeattle's picture

welcome here unlike that well known Establishment website.

up
0 users have voted.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

joe shikspack's picture

we're good with a diversity of left/progressive thought. welcome!

up
0 users have voted.

Pages