Does the Truth about 9/11 Matter?

I wanted to write something for the 9/11 anniversary but couldn't decide what angle to take. There are so many angles. There's the obvious angle, who really did it? The evidence. The third building, WTC7 that fell like a pancake. The dancing Israeli's. The "New Pearl Harbor" prediction by the neocons who took charge under Bush. Did a plane really hit the Pentagon, or was that a missile? Did Bush and Cheney know? The list goes on and on.

There's the War OF Terror angle. The U.S. went to war immediately after, first with the Global War on Terror starting in Afghanistan and then the Iraq war. This also marks the fifteenth anniversary of war (the argument of whether this country is really at war or not, constitutionally, is another angle). Donald Trump wants to put a wall around the country. The War OF Terror is now institutionalized in this country and on most of the planet. There appears no end in sight after fifteen years.

There's the Nationalism angle front and center in the National Football League's opening Sunday which happens to fall on the 9/11 anniversary. The flags waving, the victim honoring, the military parading, the people standing, the stories, the promises to protect our "freedom", it's all on display. The media saturated with emotional tributes and nationalistic propaganda with nary a thought given to the millions killed and displaced, the countries destroyed, or the children burnt alive under drone bombs in faraway lands. American hypocrisy off the charts.

There's the Conspiracy Theory angle where the government, its oligarchy owned corporate media and their lackeys paint those seeking the real truth about 9/11 as Truthers. What a kick. They're crazy, wacky, you name it because they don't believe the government story. You know, the same story told by George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Who wouldn't believe them?

Many angles and everybody's writing and talking. What's the purpose? What good is it going to do for truth,justice and the "American" way? The other iconic event that perhaps rivals 9/11 in its political significance is the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Jr, JFK. It's been over fifty years since that happened and the conspiracy to murder JFK has never been truly settled, even though the current evidence clearly destroys the official story and basically pinpoints who, what and why. Those involved will never be brought to justice. And the political situation it caused, a literal coup in this country, has never been rectified by the truth regarding the JFK murder. We the Serfs are certainly under much tighter rule now than we were fifty years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful to those researching, analyzing and exposing the evidence because we do have a fairly clear picture of what happened, who was involved and why they did it.

But I wonder whether that will matter. It doesn't seen to matter with JFK. Massive lies and deceptions are the foundation of this country and our government at the highest levels. Will anything said contradicting the "official story" even matter? Will even proving who really did it matter? It's been fifteen years and the official Bush/Cheney endorsed story is taught in middle schools right after Columbus discovering America.

Wow, what a downer. I started out trying to decide what to write about and came to that.

Hmm, let me see.

I'm sorry people died on 9/11. I'm sorry so many people have died because of 9/11. We're talking millions now. The ripple effect from that event has literally changed the world. The impact it has had is astounding if you think about all the subsequent wars and killing, destruction of lives and countries, assault on liberties and literally our freedom, the incredible advancement of the power of the military industrial complex joined with a security/intelligence industrial complex, the instutionalization of the War OF Terror on the entire planet, the creation of a top down national police state via the Department of "Homeland" Security, the spying and data collection on our lives, etc., etc, etc., there's just never been anything like it.

All because of 9/11. Who knows what would have happened if not 9/11. It's not like the ruling elite wouldn't have engineered something else to advance their insane plans for power. Because they are fucking insane. But 9/11 happened and here we are, in a fucked up world with hope hanging on for dear life.

I think hopeful reasoning might conclude that we've reached the outer limits of human greed and power lust and a course correction is on the horizon. The rise of China and Russia in the last decade coupled with the crumbling facade of the American Empire may force a come to Jesus moment for those still intent on ruling the world. So we might not die from a nuclear holocaust. Like a 21st century MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) situation.

But then again, we might. It was just fifteen years ago that people within our government and the governments/ruling classes of Saudi Arabia and Israel brazenly engineered an event that changed the world. That means they're capable of anything, they and those like them. We've been shown, not only with 9/11, but over the course of the last century what those with the most power on the planet are capable of doing. And we could have Hillary Clinton as the "Commander in Chief" until 2021.

Proving who was really behind 9/11, exposing the real Truth about 9/11, supporting those that do the research and spread the information is very important to those of us who want to topple our rulers. It matters. Those that did the crime need to be brought to justice. The War OF Terror needs to be ended. The laws, practices and institutions created for the War OF Terror need to be abolished. We can't give up on that. They'll keep doing it again and again if we don't stop them, they've proven that since 9/11 with other false flag events to supplement their "New Pearl Harbor". There can be no true People's Revolution without 9/11 Truth and Justice.

The Truth does matter, if not, what does?

Addendum:

Bush knew, Cheney knew, Rice knew, there is no doubt.


"But that’s not all there is to the cover-up: As I mentioned and documented in my July 20th news-report on “9/11: Bush’s Guilt and the ’28 Pages’,” U.S. President George W. Bush was also involved in the 9/11 operation: He had instructed his National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice to block his obtaining from U.S. government sources any specific information about what the attacks would entail, or about the date on which they would occur. (Presumably, he already knew, via his private communications with Prince Bandar or someone else who was in on the event’s planning, all that he had wanted to know about the coming event.)

When CIA Director George Tenet, on 10 July 2001, was practically screaming to Rice to allow him into the Oval Office, to meet privately with the President to inform him of how urgent the situation had become to take action on it, she said: “We’re not quite ready to consider this. We don’t want the clock to start ticking.” Tenet was shocked, and dismayed. That encounter with Rice was intended to urge the President to establish a hit-team to take out bin Laden, so as to avert the operation — whatever it was, or would turn out to be. The way that Chris Whipple put this, in his terrific report in Politico magazine, on 12 November 2015, titled “The Attacks Will Be Spectacular”, was that, “they did not want a paper trail to show that they’d been warned.”

https://off-guardian.org/2016/09/07/the-great-911-coverup/

"Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” The CIA’s famous Presidential Daily Brief, presented to George W. Bush on August 6, 2001, has always been Exhibit A in the case that his administration shrugged off warnings of an Al Qaeda attack. But months earlier, starting in the spring of 2001, the CIA repeatedly and urgently began to warn the White House that an attack was coming."

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/cia-directors-documentary...

So they knew. There are the theories of LIHOP and MIHOP, let it happen on purpose and made it happen on purpose. Some think they LIHOP, some think they MIHOP, some think they didn't know, which has been proven false. For me there is no such distinction, if they LIHOP'd they MIHOP'd. I think it's quite naïve to think they knew about it but decided to do nothing about it so they could have their New Pearl Harbor to kick-start their New American Century. That's just too much of a coincidence to believe. No, they knew because they made it happen.

Or you can believe this guy:

"Nobody in our government at least, and I don't think the prior government could envision flying airplanes into buildings."

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PriceRip's picture

          There are not enough Dr. Paul Ekman's to do what is really needed. We will just have to live with not knowing who actually knew what when.
          I expect the worst: We will (as a country and as a world filled with too many people) continue to fight, hate, and kill each other endlessly. That's what we do best.
          In the meantime, during the last years I have, I plan to continue to support my daughter and granddaughter as they continue to try to make the world a better place to live. I would prefer to act globally but my only real option for being effective is to act locally.

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Big Al's picture

to end this rule by the rich. Certainly they've gone global, the ruling elite. I've got kids and grandkids too so I prepare them as best I can, I agree about acting locally also. But we have to stop this criminal enterprise at the top sooner or later or all that acting locally could go down the drain.

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PriceRip's picture

          I would have written "'rich' and 'entitled'" because of the fact that not all "rich" are "entitled" and not all "entitled" are "rich" and the parsing and naming of the "oligarchy" is a gnarly task.
          I agree that we need to change the way we govern in a most fundamental way but: How do we "get the ball rolling?" As I have suggested elsewhere: I see a clear path toward our goal, but I see no movement toward that goal. Sanders started marshaling a throng to move in the proper direction but that movement quickly became incoherent and has dissipated. The most unambiguous act would be for enough electoral votes to go to some one other presidential candidate so that neither Hillary nor Donald would get the requisite votes to outright win the election. This with enough public actions to highlight the 99% solution, we the people would not be ignorable.
          Simple Summery: United We Succeed, Divided We Fail

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Not satisfied with totally controlling the narrative on your own thread, you want to come here and Truthify everybody else?

Blum 3 Diablo

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

The fairy land where there are no conspiracies (corruption), the laws of physics do not matter, and holding authorities accountable is mocked as 'Truthify'.

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PriceRip's picture

          The "laws of physics" are not what you seem to think.

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Over 2600 Independent Architects and Engineers have scientifically totally disproven the nonsense spouted by the well-heeled NIST (which is aligned with the U.S. government....hence their ".gov" URL).

This is NOT a building "falling down from fire" or from "structural weakening".
It is a steel and concrete building that is being pulverized and blown into tiny bits of dust before your very eyes!

Fire doesn't do that. Never has and never will.
Anyone with a set of eyes in their head can see that (who is honest).

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Try learning what actually happened - see: Architects and Engineers on 9/11

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And, any honest person knows this was not a building that simply just "burned down" accidentally.
It is obviously intentional demolition: free-fall speed, symmetrical collapse, classic crimp in-the-middle.

The physics is quite clear.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

MarilynW's picture

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Hearst Publications, like many other magazines, have long been infiltrated by the CIA.

It was revealed back in the 1970s that journalists, magazines, TV, and newspapers have been long infiltrated by the CIA.

Operation Mockingbird was in fact a well organized CIA program to train and deploy CIA assets and infiltrate The U.S. Media broadly.

For this same reason, we also do not get the truth about the Kennedy Assassination, and many other criminal acts committed by the U.S. Military-Intelligence-Banking-Globalist Oligarchy.

And, of course, the so-called "debunk" spin from Popular Mechanics was already itself debunked! (immediately)

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See: http://www1.ae911truth.org/faqs/676-debunking-popular-mechanics.html

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You'll never get the truth from government compromised sources.

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Wink

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

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(Illegal) CIA Human Torture, Assassinations, Coup 'd etats, Drug trafficking, Arms trafficking, "Regime Change", domestic surveillance, blackmail, economic sabotage, affiliation with Terrorist groups, death squads, secrecy, etc. are all even openly acknowledged, and even actively encouraged by the Political Elite class.

This is what the CIA does by design (clandestine services) all over the World with your Tax money.

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Big Al's picture

When bringing the CIA up is derided, you know what you've got.

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PriceRip's picture

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See: http://www.ae911truth.org/gallery/evidence.html

  • Steel frame buildings have never fell at "free fall" speed (rate of gravity) from any fire or any plane hit in all of World History.
  • No steel frame building has also ever imploded into fine dust with most of the steel core removed from fire either.
  • And neither Fire nor Heat can ever make neat, even angle-cuts through all the steel core beams.

That is completely against the Laws of Physics.

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You really need to read independent, non-government sources, and not establishment-run U.S. Media outlets.

See: http://www.ae911truth.org/gallery/evidence.html

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If the towers fell at "free fall speed" why was there debris falling faster than the towers? Just asking questions...

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

There is clear evidence of the floors underneath the top floors imploding first, with sideways "squibs", and projectile ejection of steel beams at great force. The debris is scattered about at multiple levels.

When it only took approx. 9 seconds for the whole damn skyscraper to fall -- yes that is virtual free fall speed (no underneath resistance).

Instead of making 'snarky' and inaccurate remarks, why don't you look at independent, non-government affiliated evidence.

See: http://www.ae911truth.org/gallery/evidence.html

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This is an event we watched on live TV and yet we can't agree on the facts. The towers were weakened on the floors where the planes impacted. There is no evidence of explosives. At all.

Now instead of "free fall speed" you say "virtual free fall speed." Well yeah, it happened fast - but not surprisingly fast.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

These videos prove that multiple explosions were heard by many, many direct eyewitnesses (and victims).

You were not an eyewitness, and your own obtuse lying, and pathetic attempt to cover-up the facts does not change the true history here, and never will.

The Facts:

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MarilynW's picture

There was no precedent for fueled Boeing 767's crashing into high rise buildings. The planes' fuel kept fires going after the crashes. No one knew what that crash would look like or how the buildings would react according to physics. It was a unique situation. There's nothing obvious about an unprecedented situation.

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k9disc's picture

I mean, that's a pretty clean drop of a VERY large building. Two of them actually -- with different points of impact.

Seems to me that we can just put some jet fuel in a building and fire it up.

It has to be cheaper than all that C4, set up, and planning, and whatnot.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

PriceRip's picture

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k9disc's picture

using jet fuel since the twin towers, right?

If that is the case then there is no confirmation of the Establishment hypothesis?

It's all just theory.

Correct or no?

And WTC 7 was not a tall building, correct? So we have that as a datapoint as well.

I'd like to see a few buildings dropped with jet fuel to test the Establishment hypothesis. I won't be holding my breath.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

k9disc's picture

Exactly the same manner given the different impact zones on the two towers and no impact zone at all on WTC 7.

That seems more farfetched, to me, than keeping a State secret.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

boriscleto's picture

14344759_10154078018743897_8168419352064394296_n.jpg

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" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

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Go back to DailyKos where the government will never lie to you again...and the unicorns fly.

F A C T S:

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lotlizard's picture

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The most succinct description I've ever heard.

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Azazello's picture

Have you seen Paul Jay's interview with Bob Graham about the 28 pages ?
Just posted today, in 2 parts:

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It didn't have to be this way.

Big Al's picture

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Shockwave's picture

Over White House objections, House passes bipartisan bill allowing families of Sept. 11 victims to sue Saudi Arabia

The House passed the legislation Friday by voice vote, about four months after the measure cleared the Senate despite vehement objections from Saudi Arabia. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals.

The White House has signaled Obama would veto the legislation over the potential for the measure to backfire. The Obama administration cautions that if U.S. citizens can take the Saudis to court, then a foreign country could in turn sue the United States. There also is apprehension the bill would undermine a longstanding yet strained relationship with a critical U.S. ally in the Middle East

And then, speaking of the Saudis, one of my favorite congresscriters leads on another front;

A Congressman Campaigns to “Stop the Madness” of U.S. Support for Saudi Bombing in Yemen

Ted Lieu, a Democrat representing Los Angeles County, served in the Air Force and is a colonel in the Air Force Reserves. The brutal bombing of civilian areas with U.S.-supplied planes and weapons has led him to act when most of his colleagues have stayed silent.

“I taught the law of war when I was on active duty,” he told The Intercept. “You can’t kill children, newlyweds, doctors and patients — those are exempt targets under the law of war, and the coalition has been repeatedly striking civilians,” he said. “So it is very disturbing to me. It is even worse that the U.S. is aiding this coalition.”

And let's not forget about their undercover support of ISIS;

ISIS and Saudi Arabia: A Dangerous Double Game

In a 2009 memo revealed by WikiLeaks, then-U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the kingdom was a main source of funding for militant groups including Al-Qaida. Riyadh was not acting to stop this money flow, she added.

This policy continued into the Syrian civil war. Private sources in the Gulf provided hefty funding for extremist anti-regime groups in the uprising's early years, often channeling cash donations through intermediaries in Turkey.
Gulf states including Saudi Arabia allowed the transfer of funds to these militant Sunni groups, viewing the militias as an effective way to counter Iranian influence in the region.

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The political revolution continues

snoopydawg's picture

Saudi government, including Bandar 'Bush' bin Sultan were involved in financing the terrorists and not only withheld the information from us for almost 15 years but did nothing about it is mind boggling.
And remember Bush said "you are either with us or against us".
I think that financing the people who attacked our country falls in the category of being against us.
This picture disgusts me to no end.
image_172.jpeg

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In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

snoopydawg's picture

This statement makes the picture all the more disgusting!

Well, what that document actually showed, and proved (and cited FBI investigators who could then have testified in public, if requested), was the opposite of unimportant: that the Saudi Ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan al-Saud (who was known in Washington as “Bandar Bush,” because of his closeness to the Bush family), had secretly been paying the Saudi handlers of at least two of the 15 Saudis among the 19 9/11 hijackers, and that Bandar’s wife and other relatives were also paying those hijackers-to-be, and their families — thus enabling the future hijackers to obtain the necessary pilot-training etc., for the 9/11 attacks.

https://off-guardian.org/2016/09/07/the-great-911-coverup/
Obama's decision to veto this because it might make the US vulnerable to lawsuits is deplorable.
The US should be vulnerable to lawsuits or at the least the people who make the decisions to invade other countries on false pretenses like babies being thrown out of incubators, WMDs, sarin gas attacks that were done by the terrorists that the US created.
The drones dropping bombs on weddings and then the people who go to help, they should all get their day in court.
Maybe if people were held accountable for their actions, there would be less of them.
Yes 9/11 was horrible because innocent civilians were killed, but how many 9/11s has the US done? Some people never bother to ask why we were attacked or why the terrorists hate us .
Anyone watch the movie Eye in the sky?
It's about the decision whether to use a hell fire missle on a group of men who are going to use suicide vests to attack a market.
There is a young girl who might be killed if they drop the bomb and the movie is about whether her death would be worth it to save more deaths.

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In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

Shockwave's picture

...that the only plane that flew all over when all air traffic stopped was the Saudi royal family being evacuated. We didn't even know the nationalities of the terrorists.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/September_11,_2001:_Evacuation_of_S...

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The political revolution continues

Alligator Ed's picture

massive sums to CGI--perhaps a payoff to prevent further investigation and/or be allowed to continue to be our main foreign supplier of oil.

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if U.S. citizens can take the Saudis to court, then a foreign country could in turn sue the United States.

So, it's OK if corporations sue the U.S. (TPP ISDS), but nation states suing us? Totally unacceptable!

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lunachickie's picture

We should never stop looking for it. Especially since we KNOW that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. That being said, I love this piece, it's excellent! It gives the reader a lot to think about.

While I don't pretend to know "who really did it" or "what really happened", what I do know is that Iraq demonstrably had nothing to do with it, yet we went over there and slaughtered their people--by the millions, other human beings--for something that they did not do. I can't live with that without knowing who actually did it, if for no other reason that somehow, knowing the actual perp might allow us all to address that appropriately and make amends where we can if it's even possible.

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Big Al's picture

the people there are paying for something they didn't do either.
Thanks lunachickie.

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divineorder's picture

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

lotlizard's picture

"Wer spricht heute noch von der Vernichtung der Armenier Irakis?"

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My advice is read the 9/11 Commission's report. Feel free to compare that with the "truthers" and their nonsense about "free fall speed," thermite and iron oxide, remote control airplanes, etc.

Seriously, 15 years later the so-called "conspiracy theorists" have yet to come up with a logical time line of a putative U.S. government plot to attack our own country. IOW they don't have an actual theory worthy of the name.

There was a conspiracy no doubt, more or less as described in the 9/11 report. BTW those who describe that report as "the official story" are incorrect. The closest we have to an "official story" is Condi Rice's testimony, in which she made the false claim no one could have anticipated that al-Qaeda would do what they did. The 9/11 Commission's report established that it was anticipated, indeed "the system was blinking red" for four months prior to the attack.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

MarilynW's picture

It was debunked by Harper's Magazine
A href="http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/10/0080234">Whitewash as public service:
How The 9/11 Commission Report defrauds the nation
By Benjamin DeMott

Whitewash as public service:
How The 9/11 Commission Report defrauds the nation
By Benjamin DeMott

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The Harper's article is behind a paywall. The 9/11 report is freely available. Can you summarize? Does Benjamin DeMott explain how and why the Bush administration plotted the 9/11 attacks? Did he interview any of the thousands of government employees that would have to have been involved in the conspiracy?

Or did DeMott simply nitpick about some things that were relegated to footnotes in the report, or the Saudi government information that was redacted?

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

MarilynW's picture

since more than 3 paragraphs enters into copyright territory.

I sat down with the book believing there was no way The 9/11 Commission Report could fail to produce answers.
This was the promise, after all: answers. Answers in return for serious attention. In the preface, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton claimed that the body of the text would “identify lessons learned” from the long stretch of study, interviews, debate, meditation. The implicit guarantee was that ahead lay a work of analysis addressed to an intelligent democratic citizenry—an inventory of possible causes of the tragedy followed by a reasoned-out, sober set of judgments about which of these causes were most plausible.

The promise was not kept. The plain, sad reality—I report this following four full days studying the work—is that The 9/11 Commission Report, despite the vast quantity of labor behind it, is a cheat and a fraud. It stands as a series of evasive maneuvers that infantilize the audience, transform candor into iniquity, and conceal realities that demand immediate inspection and confrontation. Because it is continuously engaged in scotching all attempts to distinguish better from worse leadership responses, the Commission can't discharge its duty to educate the audience about the habits of mind and temperament essential in those chosen to discharge command responsibility during crises. It can't tell the truth about what was done and not done, thought and not thought, at crucial turning points. The Commissioners' immeasurably valuable access to the principals involved offered an extraordinary opportunity to amass material precious to future historians: commentary based on moment-to-moment reaction to major events. But the 567 pages, which purport to provide definitive interpretations of the reactions, are in fact useless to historians, because a seeming terror of bias transforms query after commissarial query—and silence after silence—into suggested new lines of self-justification for the interviewees. In the course of blaming everybody a little, the Commission blames nobody—blurs the reasons for the actions and hesitations of successive administrations, masks choices that, fearlessly defined, might actually have vitalized our public political discourse.

At the core of all these failures lies a deep wariness of earnest, well-informed public debate. And the wariness is rooted, clearly, in a conception of the nature of citizen virtue that (1) strips the critical instinct of its standing as essential equipment for the competent democratic mind, and (2) finds merit in the consumer credulity that relishes pop culture and shrugs off buyer-beware warnings. The ideal readers of The 9/11 Commission Report are those who resemble the Commission itself in believing that a strong inclination to trust the word of highly placed others is evidence of personal moral distinction. As the Report's project becomes ever more visibly that of sanctifying equivocation and deference, the Commissioners retreat ever further from evaluating the behavior of which their interviews and research nonetheless allow brief glimpses—behavior on which fair judgments of character and intelligence could and should have been based. Issues of commitment and responsibility are time and again reconfigured as matters of opinion, or as puzzles of memory, or as pointlessly distracting “partisan” squabbles. See, here it is again, says the Commission's undervoice. People differ, of course. But of course. And they believe with the utmost sincerity in their own account of events. And they are all honorable men and women. Little can be gained, therefore, by assessing, weighing, in the end pronouncing this position—this version—superior to that. Reader, given our shared probity and undoubted concern for the future of the Republic, let us think process and structure, forgoing Blame Games. Let us look to the future. We need to move on.
[...]

If you are really interested I can email you the whole article. Or maybe I can message it to you through this site..

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Thanks for the excerpt. What DeMott is saying, according to my reading, is that the report pulled its punches in failing to place enough blame on the highest levels of the Bush administration. I think that is accurate, but remember this was a bi-partisan commission made up of of five Democrats and five Republicans (Henry Kissinger was invited, but declined because reportedly he didn't want to disclose his client list at the time). It's not surprising that the finished report did not include a thoroughgoing critique of the Bush administration's incompetence.

Wikipedia also quotes DeMott, but does not characterize his article as a "debunking." The 9/11 report, to my knowledge, has never been found to contain any false information. It's incomplete, that's the worst anyone can say.

As an aside, I was amused to note that a Google search of "9/11 report" now brings up mostly accounts of Hillary's apparent fainting spell today.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

MarilynW's picture

they proved to be inept, indifferent and ineffectual. Which leads me to think WTF are they hired for?

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MarilynW's picture

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Big Al's picture

not based on one or a few details, like how the buildings fell or some of the false claims put out there by the anti-Truthers to muddy the waters, which is S.O.P. for the propaganda ministry. So ya, I've seen the report and a whole lot more.

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MarilynW's picture

including the years before 9/11. When did the plans begin? They were years in the making and there were some rehearsals like the attacks the USS Cole and the embassies in Africa. The scope covers decades and many countries, Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan.

Ahmed Shah Massoud head of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan during and after the Russian occupation, warned the American delegation at a summit in Paris, in the Spring of 2001, "You ignore what is going on in Afghanistan at your peril." Osama bin Laden was busy training jihadis there. Massoud was killed by jihadis of Osama Bin Laden on September 10, 2001, in Afghanistan.

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"My advice is read the 9/11 Commission's report."

Surely you are aware that much of the "evidence" in that report is based on interrogations of detainees who were being waterboarded and otherwise tortured? It is well known that people who are being tortured will say whatever they think their torturers want in order to stop the pain. The methods used against the "terrorists" in these interrogations were first developed in authoritarian countries for the purpose of eliciting false confessions. They work very well. And because those methods work so well, the main basis of the 9/11 Commission's report is completely without value. The quote below is from Wikipedia's article on criticisms of the 9/11 report:

"In January 2008, NBC News released an investigative report on the 9/11 Commission's use of information acquired by torture of detainees.[10] Current and former senior U.S. intelligence officials said that the operatives cited by the Commission were subjected to the harshest of the CIA’s methods, the "enhanced interrogation techniques", subsequently determined to be torture by US, UN and EU authorities. According to the NBC analysis, more than one quarter of all footnotes in the 9/11 Report refer to CIA interrogations of al-Qaeda operatives who were subjected to the harsh interrogation techniques."

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_9/11_Commission

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MarilynW's picture

just out
The Terror Years: From al-Qaeda to the Islamic State 2016

The Looming Tower: al-Qaeda and The Road to 9/11, 2006 (Pulitzer Prize)

Both were based on evidence, interviews with witnesses, documentation etc.

The CIA knew there were terrorists within the USA but refused to share intelligence with the FBI. The Bush government was asleep at the wheel, still concentrating on the cold war, they were incapable of planning this event but fully capable of taking advantage of its aftermath.

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riverlover's picture

I thought there was supposed to be some chastisement then. From what is happening in the ME with supposed CIA funding, is the CIA a rogue outfit?

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

MarilynW's picture

in the ME? Who knows what they are up to in Syria, Turkey, Iraq?

Their cult believed that holding onto intelligence was more important than the threats to the American people that were contained in that intelligence. I don't know what's changed but it might be shown in the book I'm reading now by Lawrence Wright, "The Terror Years: From al-Qaeda to the Islamic State."

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k9disc's picture

The bar was very close to DFW airport.

The bathroom valets were of Middle Eastern descent, super nice guys, working under the table to support their training as airline pilots. They were super nice guys.

This was 1997-8.

Really freaked me out when 911 happened and the student pilot thing was the MO.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

MarilynW's picture

that they only wanted to learn how to take off, they didn't care about having lessons in landing a plane? I read somewhere that one of the 9/11 "pilots" told an instructor that. But it didn't ring any alarm bells at the time.

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Anyone looking for objective evidence, minus the "conspiracy theories" (although the official explanation IS a conspiracy theory) should take a look at ae911truth.org, from the architects and engineers. Quite convincing. Thanks for your post, I have always avoided the topic online as it is worse than discussing religion! When the truth no longer matters to a people, the people have lost their souls.
Alyosha

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Big Al's picture

others. It has been difficult to talk about like the JFK murder was because of the purposeful description of Truther as a derogatory term tied to conspiracy theorist, another derogatory term started with the JFK murder. Aided by the corporate media and the government and paid and unpaid trolls on the internet.
But that seems to be turning, so here we are.

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Richard Gage is a controversial figure, and his WTC 7 theory has been proven wrong.

Debunked: AE911Truth's WTC7 Explosive Demolition Hypothesis

See also the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) report.

Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (NIST NCSTAR 1A)

I can't believe people are still being taken in by the "truthers" after all these years.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

MarilynW's picture

winning author who covers the subject quite well based on evidence. No one knows the complete story.
Lawrence Wright

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TheOtherMaven's picture

spearheaded the investigation, but they had assistance from other organizations, including the following:
Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE);
Society of Fire Protection Engineers (SFPE);
National Fire Protection Association (NFPA);
American Institute of Steel Construction (AISC);
Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat (CTBUH);
Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY).

It's important to know what, and who, is behind the acronyms. It's easier to brush off an acronym if you don't know what it stands for.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Big Al's picture

truthers? Like somehow I and others on this blog who don't believe your bullshit are being taken? And below your quote about "discarding actual facts and logic", you are veering into insult land. Makes me wonder why you're so excited about pedaling the government story while denigrating those that have reached their own conclusions based on their own research, which includes Dick Cheney's version and alternative evidence and opinions.

You know, I can say the same thing about people who believe Dick Cheney's version, I can't believe they're still taken in by Bush and Cheney's lies regarding 9/11 and the war OF terror after all these years.

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pentagon," is to leap far off the precipice of an evidence-based epistemology in which one's model of reality derives both from one's subjective sensory experience and from inference and deductive reasoning.

as i explained not long ago on c99p (with links): hundreds of people have reported that they saw the plane flying low over DC towards the Pentagon. dozens of people have reported that they saw the plane hitting the Pentagon. Not one person I have seen cited anywhere has reported seeing the plane flying away from the Pentagon, or indeed flying anywhere, ever again.

any "theory" suggesting that the aircraft did not hit the Pentagon must explain away the eyewitness testimony of hundreds of people -- and indeed, if you wanted to push it, I don't doubt you could find thousands of people who saw it.

to suggest that something other than that American Airlines passenger jet hit the Pentagon is exactly and equally as offensive, from the perspective of the families of the dead passengers, as to suggest that Sandy Hook was a hoax.

at some point, if one wishes not to be mad, one must curtail one's imagination.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Big Al's picture

above. Thanks for pointing that out.

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lunachickie's picture

that was used over and over to club people over the head into never digging further.

I KNEW a plane hit the Pentagon. A very dear friend of mine called me, hysterical, not long after it happened. She was driving north on I-395 in Virginia, not very far north of Springfield. She saw it fly overhead before it crashed. It was REAL.

I never doubted that for a minute. But notice how much press that bullshit always seems to get, more than anything? That is in no way the totality of speculation and investigation going on over the REAL things that happened that day. Because there are many, many facets of the "official version" that defy credulity.

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been raised, i will note that it is precisely because of the absolute certainty of the crash of the plane into the Pentagon that it is not in the interests of those trying to raise serious doubts, to ever include any expression of doubt about that particular element of the event; to do so simply casts a bad light on anything else they have to say.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

a debris field, where the wings and engines hit,and why we never reconstructed the 'plane debris' as would have been normal in.any other crash?
Definitely Not denigrating the survivors or family members of lost ones, but there are a lot of questions that have never been answered. And the commissions report is bullshit. Didn't find explosive residue because we didn't look? Fuck me!

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . .

the photos of the damaged exterior.

And you want to know where the debris field is; presumably, you decline to credit the photographs of the debris field inside the building, including photographs of at least one engine sitting there amidst the ruins.

I have no idea how much of the plane was or was not reassembled in the aftermath, though I do know that a rather great part of it was burnt into cinders by the fires.

Ultimately, one must recognize that the only reason the missile hypothesis exists is to satisfy some folks' need to see nefariosity within nefariosity within nefariosity. It ignores the most obvious question, which is, "Why would the conspirators go to the extraordinary-beyond-measure of setting up such an intricate and widespread con, rather than just hijacking a plane and flying it into the Pentagon?"

And it fucking well is "denigrating" (not the word I used, actually) the families of the dead, because it denies that their relatives were killed. Again: WHERE IS THE PLANE? Do you find it more credible that somehow it slipped away unseen, to be landed, the passengers executed, and the plane dismantled and buried?

A PASSENGER JETLINER FLEW INTO THE PENTAGON AND WAS DESTROYED, KILLING ALL ON BOARD.
Deal with it.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

lotlizard's picture

At any rate, funny how some eyewitnesses’ testimony is accepted at face value — while others’ testimony, such as Barry Jennings’ account of his escape from WTC 7, has been consistently ignored or rejected, and will now probably be buried with his/their memory.

Back to the Pentagon. What has raised doubts since the very beginning is the fact that the Pentagon airspace is heavily monitored. Yet no clear footage of the airplane strike has ever been released. What’s the matter with our trillion-dollar defense establishment — no “dancing Israelis” were available to “document” the event?

If it’s an open-and-shut case, why, for a further example, did the FBI seize the security video from the gas station across the highway and never, to this day, see fit to release it? (Similar question as to why the French government is trying to order the destruction of security cam video of the Nice truck incident and seems desperate to prevent it ever being shown to the public.)

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The 9/11 Pentagon Citgo gas station surveillance videos were made public in 2008 pursuant to a FOIA request by Judicial Watch.

You can find them on YouTube.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

I'm talking about the Pentagon. (the links were in my earlier comment on the matter, several weeks ago.)

In which case, we are not talking about "an" eyewitness account, we are talking about, as I said, dozens who claim to have seen the plane hit the building, hundreds who saw the plane flying low at high speed towards the Pentagon (many of whom also heard the ensuing explosion), and not one person who claims to have seen the plane flying away again, anywhere, ever.

It's a ludicrous proposition, from start to finish, based wholly on people's firm refusal to see the evidence that has been presented to them, many times.

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0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

The "government story," as I never tire of pointing out, is Condi Rice's testimony. Not the independent, bipartisan 9/11 Commission report. Big difference.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Richard A. Muller, a physics professor at UC Berkeley, gave this analysis a few days after the attack:

The steel columns were covered with insulation, and were designed to maintain their strength for 2 to 3 hours of burning. However, the material that burned was not office furnature and paper documents. The wings, with their fuel load, probably remained in the building, where they provided fuel for the subsequent burning. The fierce burning that took place over the next hour was slowly fed by the fuel leaking out of the remains of the tanks.

At high temperatures, steel will melt. At much lower temperatures, it weakens. The jet fuel created a holocaust far hotter than planned for in the building. When the columns weakened, they became vulnerable to buckling. When buckling takes place, it takes place quickly. When one column buckles, it puts more weight on the others, and they buckle too. The columns for an entire floor (maybe for several floors) buckled at one time. The upper floors then slammed into the lower floors. The impact multiplied the force on these lower floors, and they buckled. The process continued as each lower floor continued to buckle in turn. In a few seconds, the entire building had collapsed.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

TheOtherMaven's picture

to the extent that it was possible, by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) (and assisting organizations) report.

They also found that the reason Building 7 collapsed was extensive fire-causing damage from the collapse of Building 1, and an associated lack of water to fight the fires with. (The sprinkler system was not planned to deal with a whole-building fire, had several possible failure points which did fail, and the system was extensively damaged along with the building.)

I got flamed to a crisp, and my intelligence and sanity impugned, by pointing this out RIGHT HERE ON C99.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

lotlizard's picture

from his office in California? Impressive piece of Fristing there.

Of course, any normal epistemological skepticism goes out the window as long as an opinion backs the government narrative.

It’s also kinda customary to provide links now and then to back up one’s assertions.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Matter obeys these laws. It must. It cannot do otherwise. We are NOT talking about medicine, which has innumerable variables and uncertainties.

The laws of physics apply universally, in New York, LA, Shanghai, Kathmandu or Timbuktu.

And I REPEAT: these statements were CONFIRMED by on-the-ground investigations by a multi-agency force headed by the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

Of course, if you don't want to believe that physics has any relevance, you can go ahead and do so. At your own risk.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

lotlizard's picture

The laws of physics lead him to dissenting conclusions.

http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/mempages/Mitteldorf.html

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=josh+mitteldorf+9%2F11&t=ffsb&ia=web

“At your own risk,” in bold type? Really? What’s that supposed to mean? Is that supposed to create a psychologically threatening atmosphere? Or just subliminally suggest STRENGTH, the way Trump does, as a TRICK to sway wavering and timid spirits?

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TheOtherMaven's picture

because people can't agree on "A" truth.

Subjective interpretation of objective phenomena. But we are now out of the realm of physics and into psychology.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

lotlizard's picture

What exactly am I risking if I continue not to agree with you?

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next to the expression on that beautiful cat's face is simply priceless!

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Only connect. - E.M. Forster

lotlizard's picture

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flowchart laying out the risks taken on by a person who chooses to behave as if the laws of physics apply only when they are convenient to said person's preferred internal narrative ?

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

lotlizard's picture

At any rate, for the record, let it be noted that the three of you — The Other Maven, rmwarnick, and now you, Untimely Ripped — quickly enough shifted the focus from 9/11 to attacking my person.

Oh, well, it’s good to know that, merely for challenging the government narrative on this one topic on an open discussion forum, the three of you feel entitled to characterize me as

a person who chooses to behave as if the laws of physics apply only when they are convenient to said person's preferred internal narrative

Congratulations.

Edited to add: #Gaslighting

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it sounded like the standard warning one sees on signs posted at beaches without life guards.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

I don't do personal attacks. Why do you think I attacked you?

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

TheOtherMaven's picture

If you want to don a clown nose and go around in clown shoes, it's on you and nobody else.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

when you insult another member here for having a differing opinion. To be blunt.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Apparently the explanation was worse. Okay.

The laws of physics are not a matter of opinion, even though some people obviously think/wish they were.

That's what makes rational discussion of this topic impossible.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

It's about the insults.

You are correct. Rational discussion is impossible when you believe you, and only you, are correct.

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