China versus the U.S.: will trade war become hot war? Falling into the Thucydides Trap

American politicians are almost unique in failing to learn from history--although M. Macron is giving our pols a run for the money (Rothchild's actually) by suppressing the Yellow Vests. The lesson I am sharing with you is not new. It's 2500 years old in fact and well documented too.

Thucydides Trap

Thucydides Trap: Definition, Theory & Historical Examples

The Thucydides Trap
History is littered with examples of things that seemed like good ideas at the time, but that turned out to be disastrous. While we've recognized these pitfalls for a long time, we now have an official term for at least one of them. In 2015, Harvard political scientist and professor Graham Allison identified a scenario he calls the Thucydides Trap. Basically, the Thucydides Trap says that as a rising power challenges the dominance of an established power, that dominant power is likely to respond with violence. It's a model for predicting when warfare is likely between two nations, but also a way to propose alternative solutions meant to prevent warfare. After all, the whole point of identifying a trap is to avoid it.

The Thucydides Trap is a political metaphor, so in order to understand it we need to look at its namesake. Thucydides was a 5th-century BCE Greek historian and politician who wrote the most famous account of the Peloponnesian War. Here's what he observed in the outbreak of the nearly 30-year conflict that rocked the Greek city-states.

Sparta was the hegemony, or dominant power, of the Aegean. Athens, however, was growing so quickly that Sparta got spooked. They worried that Athens would soon become a real threat to their power, so they attacked preemptively. And that's the trap. Athens' ambition and Sparta's fear of losing power drew the two into conflict, even when no one expected it. When Sparta attacked Athens, it forced the other Greek city-states to pick a side, and a massive Greek war ensued that lasted for decades. Thucydides would later write that the entire Peloponnesian War was due to ''the growth in power of Athens, and the alarm which this inspired in Sparta.''

But objectives are not limited to resources whether mineral, agricultural or even human. The value exceeds those "objective" entities and erodes into the broader reality of human emotionality. And there is the rub. People rationalize emotional impulses and drives making them seem, after the fact, reasonable instead of emotional. Can't source the next assertion but I've seen the following written: 90% of human decisions are primarily emotional.

The Real Thucydides’ Trap

Professor Graham Allison of the Harvard Kennedy School has popularized the phrase “Thucydides’ trap,” to explain the likelihood of conflict between a rising power and a currently dominant one. This is based on the famous quote from Thucydides: “It was the rise of Athens and the fear that this inspired in Sparta that made war inevitable.” This usage has even spread to Chinese President Xi Jinping who said “We all need to work together to avoid the Thucydides trap – destructive tensions between an emerging power and established powers … Our aim is to foster a new model of major country relations.” However, those like Graham Allison who talk about a Thucydides trap only capture half the meaning of the History of The Peloponnesian War. The true trap is countries going into, and continuing, war clouded by passions like fear, hubris and honor.

In Thucydides’ history, human emotion made conflict inevitable, and at several points where peace was possible, emotion propelled it forward. In the beginning, there is a set of speeches in Sparta debating the possibility of going to war with Athens. Archidamus, the Spartan king, tells the Spartan people not to underestimate the power of Athens and urged that Sparta “must not be hurried into deciding in a day’s brief space a question which concerns many lives and fortunes and many cities, and in which honor is deeply involved – but we must decide calmly.” However, Sthenelaidas, a Spartan ephor, advocated, “Vote, therefore, Spartans, for war, as the honor of Sparta demands.” The Spartans followed Sthenelaidas, which led to a war of honor and fear against the Athenians.

Tell me if anyone here at c99 believes "American exceptionalism" is nothing more than an excuse to plunder, to violate all treaties, build Empires. But more importantly such exceptionalism is neither new nor true. It is the mantra, the grand excuse for Empire.

What is the Thucydides’s Trap and how does it inform US-China relations in the 21st century?

Escaping Thucydides’s Trap
It shouldn't surprise anyone that Graham Allison is not the first who has studied Greek history and Thucydides’s Trap. Therefore it shouldn't surprise that Europe's greatest minds debated and wrote extensively on how to escape Thucydides’s Trap, like William Penn (of Pennsylvania), Tadeusz Kościuszko, Immanuel Kant, Victor Hugo, and Giuseppe Garibaldi. In the 20th century proponents were Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, Konrad Adenauer, Robert Schuman and Winston Churchill among many, many others (I just mention those, so you can feel comfortable that this question has finally been settled for good - 30 years ago)

How did we settle this question and why did it take us so long?

The main reason for adopting the solution is obvious: nuclear deterrence - every nuclear power has the power to annihilate humanity. So it's a no-brainer to adopt the mechanism which prevents war in the first place. This mechanism is the central founding idea for the European Union and it's called T-R-A-D-E.

The founding idea of the European Union is to so deeply link and intertwine nation economies that conflict becomes unthinkable. That war between France and Germany is as unthinkable as a war between Paris and Versailles or New York and Boston.

No. No. No. Trade is not the answer. In fact it is a very serious matter when the truly free flow of trade at equivalent exchange rates is balked by tariffs or other trade-defeating measures. I don't want to hear about "free trade", a mythical creature dwelling in the land of unicorns and rainbows.

Consider the basics here. The Russian-American Cold War is Over (except in the pinpoint heads of die-hard Neocons). The new game in town is ChinaChinaChina. The world's second largest economy but still rapidly grown despite recent slowdowns. China has adopted a military policy commensurate with its Five Year Plans and other national goals. China does not want to rule the world militarily--it wants to own it. At the very least hint is staking out its extended sovereignty (do you hear a whisper of exceptionalism here?) by local exertion of military and economic power in its own relatively local sphere of influence. Will One Belt One Road be the mechanism of that? The particulars do not matter. The Chinese are not going to let the shifty Americans set the rules of the game, either in commerce or arms, especially on what they consider their home turf.

History does indeed show the Thucydides Trap, sometime by nearly equal powers, as opposed to a relatively rapidly equilibrium.

Here's an article which indicates Chinese restraint, a virtue the neither Trump or the Dems can seem to manifest:

As Trade Talks Begin, US Infuriates Beijing With Latest Navy Operation In South China Sea

As a US delegation led by senior trade officials arrived in Beijing on Monday to begin the first round of in-person talks to resolve the burgeoning US-China trade war, the US has reportedly carried out its latest 'Freedom of Navigation' operation in the South China Sea - though at least this time there wasn't a near-collision with a Chinese ship.

Since President Trump's inauguration, the US has stepped up its 'Freeops' as the US Navy seeks to contain China's growing military ambitions in the Pacific. But since the trade war began, the US has demonstrated a keen sense of timing, contributing to China's decisions to cancel security conferences and reconsider coming to the table to talk on trade.

But this time, the controversial maneuver seemingly doesn't bode well for the fate of a lasting US-China trade compromise. According to the Wall Street Journal, the US-guided-missile destroyer the USS McCampbell patrolled within 12 miles of the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea on Monday. In particular, it came within a few miles of three islands: Tree, Lincoln and Woody.

China sent its own ship to try and deter the McCampbell, but ultimately decided to file an official complaint. According to Bloomberg, China urged the US to halt "provocative actions" in the South China Sea. "The actions by the U.S. fleet have violated Chinese law and related international laws, and undermined the peace, security and good order in the relevant waters,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang told a briefing Monday in Beijing. "China strongly opposes the actions."

This short Youtube video (10:38) gives a visual perspective and very much on point at the realistic dangers such needless provocations may develop: [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk62lYdohY8]

Here is a link to an article the Nation-Pakistan: US trade wars & hot wars

President Trump should understand that the international trade system is not only hardwired but also connected through a delicate cobweb of interdependent systems, which when abruptly disturbed, can unleash a butterfly effect, creating a financial chaos throughout the globe.

...

Quoting Jeff Mills, co-chief investment strategist at PNC Financial Services Group, the CNBC also stated that China holds about 20 percent of U.S. debt held by foreign countries and if China does decide to dump treasuries, it could make others panic and sell as well. It will also become more expensive for the U.S. government to issue debt they’ll have to pay higher rates to borrowers, while the $15 trillion of treasuries held by itself and investors would fall in value. Equities would be sent crashing, too, as yields climb. “Higher interest rates would ripple through the entire economy,” says Mills. “It would have a slowing effect.”

...

I will end the piece with the observations of Professor Andrew Bacevich from Boston University (author of a book, The Limits of Power and the End of American Exceptionalism), who identified the three challenges facing the US, “the economy, in remarkable disarray, can no longer be fixed by relying on expansion abroad; the government, transformed by an imperial presidency, is a democracy in form only; and U.S. involvement in endless wars, driven by a deep infatuation with military power, has been a catastrophe for the body politic. These pressing problems threaten all of us, Republicans and Democrats. If the nation is to solve its predicament, it will need the revival of a distinctly American approach: the neglected tradition of realism”.

How Trade Wars Become Hot Wars

Here is an astute comment from the Quora article, linked above, which does a nice job of near term analysis.

1. One or both sides must believe that they can defeat the other side and gain its objectives.
2. Neither side is going to back down on a conflict. Compromises have been exhausted. Both sides must believe that the other had crossed the red line.
But the big power conflict is complicated for multiples reasons. First, nuclear war is unwinnable. Second, even on a limited conventional conflict, strategists must ask what is to be gained, versus what is lost? If China goes to war and even if it thinks it can win a local battle, such as Taiwan or Diaoyudao, is it worth destroying its current political status and economic relationships with the world?
Once a major conflict starts, it might be a no turning back scenario. Just like the European powers found out in World War One. They enthusiastically rushed into war, deluded that it will be over in few months. Also, Hitler and Germans almost believed that they can get away with invading Poland. Even though they may have been already thinking about invading Russia and France eventually.
Nation can be pressured into a corner and start a war. Japanese in Second World War attacked Pearl Harbor after it was denied access to crucial rubber and oil from French Indochina, British Malay, Dutch Indies, and Philippines. But did the Japanese leadership believe once you provoke US, it can pull off a limited victory or without the complete victory, US will accept nothing but an unconditional surrender?
But the leadership of the nations are not always reasonable and sane. Partly because there is no way you can have a full, reliable information. People or regimes, who start wars really believe they can win the wars based on the information they have or they have no choice, so they will take the risks into the unknown. But it will be found out the hard way, that their calculation was wrong.

Yes, in order to save face, China might be willing to risk a small scale military action, such as those already used in the South China Sea (USS Fitzgerald, McCain, etc) but would Trump ever let the Chinese respond even in a limited fashion with trying to even or surpass the score?

Of course with Bolton and Pompeo in the mix, it's like giving a kid a match and ask him to check out the gas tank.

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k9disc's picture

NOT China crisis.

I love your analysis and the stuff about the Thucydides Trap, it's quite valuable; this reporter is a tool and snake oil salesman. I'm surprised he didn't huck some crypto - get BitCoin Rich... quick.

While I agree with the sentiment that the S China Sea is a flashpoint, it is the US who is provoking China. We're provoking them and pressuring them on trade while our economy is completely dependent upon trade with them. It's absurd, like the rest of our schizophrenic narcissism masquerading as foreign policy.

We're going after Venezuela, Iran, China, Africa, and Russia. All of whom are provoking us at or inside their borders and with their ownership of their national resources - the sheer unmitigated gall! While taking on these provokers, we suffer under strained relations with all but the most politically unstable European market economies and a couple of militarily meaningless "allies" - don't forget about Poland. Is there any decent nation who wants to work with us?

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Alligator Ed's picture

@k9disc we are told--but the real action is elsewhere.

We won't have a war with Mexico if the Wall doesn't get built. But the fine touch (s/) of our diplomats, Bolt-head and Pompous will ensure the best outcome of the situation. Now, don't you feel better already?

This government shut down is great! No taxes to pay because tax collectors are on furlough. And it's hard to keep shooting when you can't resupply the ammunition. Best thing Trump has done--shut down the government (except for "essential services" like health).

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detroitmechworks's picture

When I read Thucydides, one of the things he emphasized was that things really got started when small city-states initially served as the proxy for the animosity between Sparta and Athens.

They started fighting, and of course, Sparta and Athens HAD to help their allies. We know where this goes from here. If we're going to be trying to AVOID a war, ironically, Trump may be doing the one thing that will stop us from following the pattern. Abandoning Allies who will get us involved in a war.

Yes, it is "Heartless". If you consider all the people of the world your constituents. However, America is not a fucking church, no matter what the fanatics believe, and making the world "Safe for Democracy" is idiotic if it involves ignoring what the people want. We don't know better than everyone else, and it's arrogant to believe we can.

So, honestly, I'm betting that when China gets involved in the ME, as they already are, that's when the US will go to war. When China starts threatening Israel like they deal with the Muslims in their country. And we will HAVE to go to war in the name of "freedom of religion."

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Pluto's Republic's picture

@detroitmechworks

...the same patterns over and over again.

things really got started when small city-states initially served as the proxy for the animosity between Sparta and Athens.

Do they always end the same way? More or less, I think. But different players and cultures leave their own marks of distinction (or depravity).

But this? No:

...when China gets involved in the ME, as they already are, that's when the US will go to war. When China starts threatening Israel like they deal with the Muslims in their country. And we will HAVE to go to war in the name of "freedom of religion."

That's not what is going on. That's an American projection.

Why do you suppose China will have some dealings in the Middle East? They may send in some engineers to facilitate the construction of a high-speed rail service for freight across a few select countries who would like to participate. At the moment, however, OBOR's Maritime arm calls primarily at existing ME ports. A number of Muslim nations are key partners of China through the Asia Infrastructure and Investment bank which is underwriting the OBOR Initiative.

China has never sent their military anywhere in the world to make a business deal. At least, not in the past 10,000 years, or so. So whatever clash of armies you're imagining is an goblin of a fevered American dream. That's not how normal people do business. They use contracts, cash, and courts. That's always how China has done business in Africa. No guns are necessary.

The Chinese don't care about other people's "muslim" issues. They're doing business with Muslims and Muslim countries all over the world. And I cannot imagine China treating Israel with anything but the utmost respect. Off the top of my head, however, I don't think they have any planned business with Israel in the building of the Belt and the Road Project. Once the infrastructure is in place, I imagine that Israel will use it as it benefits them to do so. What China is doing is a very good thing in this world. This infrastructure gives everyone an opportunity, especially nations that are landlocked, to trade and develop stronger relationships with one another. The ultimate idea is to lift the Eastern Hemisphere out of poverty and open new cooperation between nations.

The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) is the international development bank that will help provide financing for infrastructure projects such as the One Belt One Road Initiative. During it's formation, the United States was asked to join as a founder, but it flatly refused. Meanwhile, 93 nations of the world are now members of the bank. They include the UK, Australia, most European nations, Russia, Brazil, Canada, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Israel. The AIIB began operations in January 2016. It has received the highest credit ratings from the three biggest rating agencies in the world, and is seen as a potential rival to the World Bank and IMF.

This is probably the last time you will see factual information about the AIIB. I'm sorry to say that from this point forward you will only hear poison and propaganda from the US regarding this project. China will be demonized and accused of trying to bankrupt poor nations in order to steal their resources, just as the US did in South America.

The OBOR map is constantly evolving. This one is not detailed but it is somewhat recent:

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
detroitmechworks's picture

@Pluto's Republic Right now the US is harping HARD on the Re-education camps, and China is denying it, as they always do. I'm not sure which to believe, I just think that whatever comes out is going to be spun in a way that the US will be the "Good Guys" over here. Defending OTHER people's religion and identities is a popular excuse, so I expect them to use that tactic as per usual.

I think we should stay the hell out of ME and Africa, but with folks like Bolton at the helm, all of the "Business" will be spun as aggressive state run economic Terrorism, or whatever crap they can come up with. I fully expect Chinese owned businesses to soon be spun as "Colonialism" and of course the US will HAVE to defend the poor natives from chinese encroachment... (Yes, I know, more projection, but that's standard US procedure, accuse the other side of what we're already doing, then go to war over the issue.)

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Alligator Ed's picture

@detroitmechworks You bring up many valuable points. One of which, as always when dealing with governments is, as you point out, whom do you believe. The Wester press in writing about 1 million + Uighurs getting "re-educated" to abandon their Islam to become (ready for this?) Godless Communists. One report I read said 750,000 have already been re-educated into dust and bone particles.

Thinking about track records of success, the Chinese nation(s) have been around for at least 3500 years as an independent culture--until the West started mucking about in the Chinese "concessions" about 160 years ago. But after a slow shift, their vector has changed from unless internal wars to SUSTAINABLE foreign policy--they learn from experience.

Has John Bolton ever learned anything after 1970?

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N. Korea took one of our surveillance ships. Later it shot down a surveillance plane. That was late 60's. China shot down a reconnaissance plane during Bush2's regime, 2001. China dismantled the plane and sent it back in pieces when it was damn well ready to. We did nothing in return, except move most of our manufacturing there. They prob. know more about our technology than we do.

We showed them, I guess.

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1. The idea that the EU is supposed to promote trade so much that war becomes "unthinkable" has turned out to be pure bull. The most clear example of this is the fact that Russia was not included. The EU capitalists could use Romanians and Poles to lower western wages, but not Russians. That was always the real reason for the EU.
And as for WW2, the real reason for Pearl Harbor was not economic sanctions in rubber. 1 man, acting against President Roosevelt's explicit order, denied the Imperial Navy fuel, transforming America from a diplomatic opponent into an existential threat. (Dean Acheson - he actually bragged about it) A US/China war might well start by a diplomatic/trade blunder, but it doesn't have to be Trump who starts it. (it could be Bolton, or even McConnell or Pelosi or someone whose name no one even would know today)

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On to Biden since 1973

Alligator Ed's picture

@doh1304 For instance the arrest of Huawei's COO in Canada allegedly for her firm violating the sanctions against trading with Iran seems to have been without his consent, although he isn't making an example of this possibly Deep State inspired action.

Interestingly, Trump doesn't tell his two prime Neocons (Bolt-hole and Pompous)about his Syrian troop withdrawal--probably didn't want to hear neocon saber rattling.

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snoopydawg's picture

what do you think our response would be? Exactly. Our ships are in the Black Sea of of Russia and has been provoking some scary shit over there and our ships are in the disputed waters of the China Sea. This is the definition of American exceptionalism and if something happens at either of those places would we get the correct story about why it happened?

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

TheOtherMaven's picture

but it bled them almost dry to do it. They conquered Athens and forced them to abandon their democracy and institute a Sparta-style dictatorship.

Athenian democracy NEVER recovered, not even after they got together with enough allies to kick the Spartans out. Socrates survived the Spartan-imposed tyranny, but NOT the "restored Athenian democracy" that followed. Most people don't know that. (Hat tip to Mary Renault for rubbing it in, in The Last of the Wine and The Mask of Apollo.)

The "restored Athenian democracy" lasted about half a lifetime - then they got Alexander.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Alligator Ed's picture

@TheOtherMaven about the Athenians poisoning Socrates AFTER "democracy" had been restored to Athens--yeah, like the "democracy" we allegedly had--we were always a republic until 9/11.

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