All of the nice people on Orange want to know --

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Mon, 01/18/2016 - 9:03pm

where the political revolution is coming from. So for instance BrooklynBadBoy:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/01/18/1471475/-Sanders-needs-to-level...

So here's my question: is a political revolution less necessary if there isn't much evidence that one is going to happen everywhere right now?

Tags:

political revolution

bernie sanders

Vote

Comments

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 01/18/2016 - 9:07pm

Tom Paine probably had somehing to say on that matter.

I don't read BBB's stuff or respond to him, he sees himself as above he rules, and so does Kos.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by joe shikspack on Mon, 01/18/2016 - 9:12pm

evening cass...

well, one thing is clear, there will not be many revolutionaries coming from the ranks of the great orange satan elite.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 3:48am

One remembers during Occupy --

the Big Orange attracted "MinistryOfTruth," whose main distinction was that he confused Occcupy with a movement to elect "more and better Democrats"...

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by Big Al on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 8:57am

Seems like the same thing is going on now

with many of Sanders' supporters. I see a lot of equating Sanders' "revolution", which is nothing more than electing more and better democrats, to the Occupy movement, particularly from one prominent diarist using largely pictorial diaries similar to the Obama worship picture diaries of days popular when Obama was running.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 11:34am

Has Sanders defined the political revolution in any exact terms?

I kind of like it vague. BrooklynBadBoy, on the other hand, wants an exact revolutionary plan so he can claim that "Hillary's plan is better."

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by joe shikspack on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 8:09pm

hey al...

i respectfully disagree with you that, "sanders' "revolution" [...] is nothing more than electing more and better democrats."

sanders has pretty clearly articulated that he anticipates that if he is elected, he will be virtually powerless to do much of anything unless there is a movement (a revolution, as he puts it) to stand up and demand that the other branches of government work the will of the people as expressed by the people in the streets, in legislators offices and filling up their mailboxes and phone lines with demands.

sanders clearly isn't expecting a coattails movement that sweeps a bunch of (democrat or other) similarly-minded politicians into office to enact his agenda.

sanders' stump speeches are not about a strategy of electing a whole bunch of right-minded democrats - they are about building a movement of citizens, not about building a party.

the themes of the sanders campaign, are in large part the themes of occupy wall street. if you will remember, ows was in significant part about accountability for the economic crisis brought on by the greed and corruption of bankers and creating an economy that was for the 99% rather than the 1%.

occupy's major themes were about economic justice, income inequality, overturning citizens united, the robin hood tax, student loan debt, the volcker rule/glass steagall, the foreclosure crisis and ending corporate personhood. here's a representative sample from an occupy forum. here's a relevant section from the wikipedia entry for occupy:

The main issues raised by Occupy Wall Street were social and economic inequality, greed, corruption and the perceived undue influence of corporations on government—particularly from the financial services sector. The OWS slogan, "We are the 99%", refers to income inequality and wealth distribution in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. To achieve their goals, protesters acted on consensus-based decisions made in general assemblies which emphasized direct action over petitioning authorities for redress.

it seems pretty clear that there is a great deal of overlap in the agenda of occupy and the platform of bernie sanders.

the comparison is totally fair.

on the other hand, the comparison of the content created by the prominent diarist you mention to blackwaterdog's picture of the day diaries seems quite unfair and a bit over the top.

Submitted by Big Al on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 9:55pm

I guess we disagree.

Time will tell. And I don't think it's over the top, it's the same thing only different. We're talking about politicians in a corrupt political system and Sanders is a politician.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 10:30am

I think we've hit a tipping point in politics

People who call themselves "independents" have been growing in number for decades.
It was a clear sign of people being unhappy with the two-party system.

Now, with Sanders and Trump, we're finally reaching the logical conclusion of people looking for people outside of the establishment.
Another downturn in the economy, combined with even more political favors to the wealthy elite, will just reinforce this trend.

DKos is way behind the curve in this regard. They don't see how things have changed.
Of course the change is most obvious in the GOP, but its coming to the Dems too.

Submitted by lotlizard on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 1:12am

BBB is no Coretta Scott King.

U.S. government agencies found guilty in Martin Luther King’s assassination

DKos would ban Coretta Scott King as a conspiracy theorist.

Submitted by DonMidwest on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 8:29am

Karl Rove attacks Hillary -- LOL

Karl Rove Hits Hillary Clinton Over Wall Street Ties

show the short ad
and at the bottom get photos of celebrities

when you are the anointed one...

Submitted by DonMidwest on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 8:47am

article on The Intercept about Seal Team 6 author

under investigation for having bin laden photos on his hard drive

he already got off the hook for publishing a book on the bin laden murder without it being cleared

Tom Drake faced 35 years or life in prison for less found on his computer which was classified AFTER it was on his computer

here is a comment to the article

Clark
Jan. 19 2016, 9:21 a.m.
Here we have a guy who is a self-promoting capitalist

capitalizing upon romanticizing slaughter which

regularly violates other countries jurisdictions with the

cheering support

of a very large number of “government officials” of

the fake USA who

have no problem with trading their “government service”

for lucrative positions in areas which undermine the voices

of the people in the fake USA.

I had a big laugh when I read the line in this article where

we were told that the SEAL investigators had

“ethical concerns”

about Bissonette’s business dealings while

Illegal murderous behavior by someone who was

proudly described as being “lethal”

is supposed to be seen as honorable.

One may wonder how this predatory behavior is

so different from so many members of the so many

White House Cabinets?

The main difference which appears to me is that Bissonette

may have used his predatory insider information

for the benefit of those who like to go camping.

Are they going to track down everyone who promoted and

bought the book because they are clearly guilty of

wanting to know “classified” state secrets?

Perhaps therein is the real reason for this “investigation” –

we are being told it is patriotic to keep people from

knowing or benefiting from what the fake government

depends upon.

Forget about the phony “In god we trust” and start adhering to

the real motto of the fake USA, which is something like,

“Shut up and kill for capitalism and shut up and kill some more”

↪ Reply

Clark ↪ Clark
Jan. 19 2016, 9:27 a.m.
Oops.

My last sentence should have begun with –

“We are being told to – forget…..”

↪ Reply

Benito Mussolini
Jan. 19 2016, 9:04 a.m.
I hope all these lawsuits won’t negatively affect the share price of SEAL Team 6. They’re bidding for a NBA franchise, will soon be releasing a new single and opening a new theme park. So I don’t understand why they spend so much time in court, fighting over book royalties. It doesn’t make sense to be so greedy that it costs you money.

↪ Reply

the link to the article

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/navy-seal-turns-over-picture-of-bin-...

Submitted by WheninRome on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 10:46am

Motherfucking Hillary maniacs

Motherfucking Hillary maniacs. Flagging assholes. Now "Ream" is a sexist disgusting verb. May they rot in hell.

Submitted by triv33 on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 10:48am

You're really being far too kind.

And I mean that.

—

I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

Submitted by WheninRome on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 10:54am

If they keep it up, Trump's

If they keep it up, Trump's gonna be prez. I'm white, over 50 and female. When I think of reaming, it concerns making orange juice.

Shit's insane.

Submitted by mimi on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 12:13pm

that's one of the comments I have difficulties with ...

no link and don't know the meaning of "ream". ok, seems I got the meaning by now... but what do you refer to? Link?

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by WheninRome on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 12:18pm

http://www.dailykos.com

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/19/1471731/-Human-Rights-Campaign...

Submitted by mimi on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 1:49pm

thanks, your comments are hidden

and I banned myself out of there, which means I can't read your hidden comments. But despite my bad memory, I remember your comments from the past and I liked them and even was wondering if you were really living in Rome. (I lived there for 2 years). Now I see, we are almost neighbors. Waving over the fence, neighbor, "How are you?" Don't let the orange people beat up your spirit.

Can't read that stuff anymore. I skip almost everything there, read green and BNR only. Kos diaries turn me off.

Ain't make sense to read that stuff and get attacked. What for.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by WheninRome on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 2:35pm

I live in Frederick. The

I live in Frederick. The WheninRome moniker is about the fall of Rome........which is what I have been seeing for quite some time now. My twitter handle is RomeisonFire. I am not much of a twitterpater though.

Thanks for the comment about liking my posts : I think we had a mutual admiration conflab before, because I like your posts too.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 6:05pm

When I saw "human rights" in the URL

…I just had to go look. Americans know almost nothing about human rights. Had collective-awareness occurred somewhere in the US when I wasn't looking?

And then I see there's a group called "Human Rights Campaign" that has nothing whatsoever to do with human rights.

False alarm. It is another LGBT public relations group.

They did a good job in summarizing the recent achievement in CIVIL rights for LGBTs (but not human rights). Like all other Americans, LGBTs still do not have any human rights. They do not have a right to food if they are hungry, or affordable shelter, or health care, or even privacy. They do not have a right to life if their state government decides to kill them. The US Constitution does not confer any human rights that cannot be revoked by government on anyone.

And the Human Rights Campaign made this announcement (the only thing they've ever done as far as I can tell) without identifiing themselves as an LGBT special interest group. Instead, they got themselves a fancy generic name useful for generic-if-misleading endorsements.

I got excited for a minute there. But, no. Just some folks confused about the difference between Human Rights, Civil Rights , Social Rights, and Environmental Rights. And a candidate who would show up for the "opening" of a door.

Submitted by mimi on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 7:53pm

I guess I am among those who confuse a lot of rights ...

... may be you write about the differences a bit? I would be interested. Thanks.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 8:41pm

I've got an essay on that topic ready to go.

Thanks, mimi. I'm going to cover one particular "human" right that I think is the most important and timely right now, globally. That is the Human Right of Self Determination.

Now that you mention it, I will outline the different kinds of rights. Marriage is of course a Civil right because it exists solely under the jurisdiction of the laws of a nation/state. Any citizen should be allowed to put their future assets and next-of-kin line-up under the regulations and protections of state law — if they want to. That is all there is to the gay marriage issue :: removing damaging gender discrimination in Civil law.

Anyway, almost all of marriage law is about divorce and dividing up the spoils and kids, which is handled in Civil courts.

Sexuality is a Human Right and if the state gets involved, it's through the criminal courts. That's not an issue for LGBT folks in the US. As I say, the Campaign for Human Rights is not dealing with any Human rights, which is a vital need in the US.

But, they got the URL, damn them

Submitted by triv33 on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 9:33pm

I'd be very interested in that.

I am constantly surprised by the number of folks who fail to understand that we need a guarantee of human rights here in this country. Yes, right here. We have nothing, nada, bupkus.

—

I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

Submitted by mimi on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 11:58pm

thanks, Pluto, I like reading your stuff ... :-) /nt

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by Shahryar on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 11:51am

they're a minority over there

I've been contemplating coming out of retirement at the cesspool to go over its history. Started out, as we remember, as a place where thinkers could discuss policy. As late as 2008 it was still anti-war.

I remember polls there rating the job performances of Pelosi and Reid. I believe Reid's approval was under 10%, Pelosi's 11%. That was in the days when the Dems were keeping their powder dry, aka doing nothing to stop Bush. And the site hated it. Shaz and I went to a Dem meeting here in Portland where Howard Dean was the featured speaker. I chatted with him afterwards, told him about those dKos polls and asked him what I should say to the members of that site. I wanted some insight into what he thought could be done to pressure the Dems in Congress. Instead he said "Tell them to elect more Democrats". When I replied "that's not going to cut it" he got a little testy. Oh, have you heard this story before? This time I'm stressing those dKos polls, which were against the Democratic inactivity.

Nowthe site is being overrun by centrist Dems and former Republicans. I get huffy when I read things like "I voted for Poppy Bush and Dole but then I saw the light". (did you see that diary? All about "how I used to be a Hillary hater but now...")

There are way too many former Republicans there who now think they should control Democratic policy. But!!! They are still a minority. That's why Bernie always wins the new polls with 65% or so. Not good enough for the management, which would like to do away with critical thinking altogether.

But enough of that. When's the new Beatles single coming out?

Submitted by WheninRome on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 12:16pm

I was always registered as a

I was always registered as a Republican. I never voted for one, except a couple of locals, US Rep and County Commissioner, both good guys, one was going up against Roscoe Bartlett. He lost. Other than that I voted for a stinker in primaries. It was just basic game theory in a blue state, but red county. When I ran for office, I had to switch to Democrat. My district is like 2 to 1 R. Here is who won:

Keep in mind I am only 35 miles from DC, only one county away.

Submitted by Shahryar on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 12:32pm

uh...yeah....

"Merry Christmas"...

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 1:15pm

Shahryar you do know --

that Sanders supporters outnumber Clinton supporters at Orange by a 2 to 1 margin...

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by WheninRome on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 1:24pm

The effect is that they are

The effect is that they are rabid and nasty though. I have never flagged shit unless it was about rock crushers or blatantly racist.

Submitted by dkmich on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 2:20pm

Flag it or step over it.

The place is totally ridiculous. The trick is to not give them clicks, comments, diaries, or anything else that will promote the existence of dkos and Hillary. Hillary's endorsement all follow the same pattern. They are either political insiders, or they are left leaning groups with their hands out.

The organizations that are usually at the Common Purpose meeting include Rock the Vote, the unions, the LCCR, the Sierra Club, HCAN, Bob Creamer (Jan Schakowsky’s husband) of Americans United for Change, CAP, Media Matters, MoveOn, Campaign for America’s Future and numerous other groups that earn their seat at that particular table by not bucking the White House. (The notable exception is MoveOn, who bravely sent a letter to their members telling them to contact the White House and tell Obama to reign Rahm in on triggers. I’m going to guess THAT precipitated quite the phone call.)

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 3:27pm

I really don't think she's at all important

The ethical egoism shines through the more she campaigns, which is why she spends a lot of time hiding from the public.

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by Shahryar on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 2:58pm

yes, I said that near the end

There are way too many former Republicans there who now think they should control Democratic policy. But!!! They are still a minority. That's why Bernie always wins the new polls with 65% or so. Not good enough for the management, which would like to do away with critical thinking altogether.

Despite the influx of the status quo bots that site is still solidly left

speaking of non-critical thinking over there, there's a hilarious diary that totally misunderstands its own premise. I'm talking about the one where Hillary is more electable because Democrats were asked who's more electable, rather than comparing head to head results of Hillary vs various Republicans and Bernie vs those Repubs.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 4:23pm

Well I wouldn't call DKos "left" --

Sanders is after all a Right deviationist -- see my diary here:

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/2/1463914/-A-call-to-the-politica...

but at least there are a few people over at Orange who don't accept the disingenuousness of the Clinton campaign or its supporters, and maybe an even fewer who are openly looking for an exit door to leave the Matrix...

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by Shahryar on Tue, 01/19/2016 - 6:06pm